Copycats

[Orangutan]

They may attempt to run a similar offense however last game I watched their point guard was not very patient and took way too many shots early. Maybe the discipline or ways to correct it is lacking.

ND is breaking in a new point guard and it's only December. Thompson is a distant 5th on the team in FGA so I don't see how she's taking "way too many" shots of any kind. Unless you meant Mabrey? Ogunbowale is not the point guard.

Regardless of execution, ND's offense does feature many of the same concepts that UConn. Somebody on ESPN (Antonelli, maybe) did a really good breakdown of the similarities a couple years back.

 

[wallman]

The biggest difference from an outsider...

When I watched Uconns games at the beginning of the season when you seemed at full strength, I was like holy ..... your defense was pretty darn amazing. Add in a couple health problems and it has taken a hit. If the same defense was currently playing like it did those first couple of games then we are probably looking at your games differently now.

 

[UConnCat]

Regardless of execution, ND's offense does feature many of the same concepts that UConn. Somebody on ESPN (Antonelli, maybe) did a really good breakdown of the similarities a couple years back.

Speaking of Antonelli, I believe she said on the dishin&swishin podcast that she think Notre Dame is better with Shepard than with Turner. She also thinks South Carolina is better this season or at least has the potential to be better.

 

[msf22b]

Not cool!
View attachment 26768

I was thinking of the mods

 

[wallman]

In my humble opinion... teams need to run on Notre Dame as Shepard struggles with a faster paced game.

 

[uconnfan68]

ND is breaking in a new point guard and it's only December. Thompson is a distant 5th on the team in FGA so I don't see how she's taking "way too many" shots of any kind. Unless you meant Mabrey? Ogunbowale is not the point guard.

Regardless of execution, ND's offense does feature many of the same concepts that UConn. Somebody on ESPN (Antonelli, maybe) did a really good breakdown of the similarities a couple years back.

Think they meant Ogunbowale. She’s a chucker. She probably wouldn’t play for us if she took that many shots.

 

[Orangutan]

Speaking of Antonelli, I believe she said on the dishin&swishin podcast that she think Notre Dame is better with Shepard than with Turner.

Maybe on offense. Shepard is a better passer and has more sophisticated offensive game. Turner is a better finisher from close range. Also better in transition.

 

[oldude]

Maybe on offense. Shepard is a better passer and has more sophisticated offensive game. Turner is a better finisher from close range. Also better in transition.

I'll reiterate what I said during the game last Sunday. Shepard is a changed player. Last year at Nebraska she was content to hang around the perimeter and chuck 3-pt shots, so Gabby absolutely shut her down. Credit MM's coaching, as well as Shepard's willingness for making a commitment to play in the paint, where she is far more effective as a scorer, rebounder and passer.

 

[chrissaran]

That's just Geno getting under the players' skin. Gabby, Lou, Napheesa, Kia, Crystal and Z all do more than one thing well. However, Geno wouldn't be Geno if he didn't have something to complain about.

 

[Mdoggie]

Think they meant Ogunbowale. She’s a chucker. She probably wouldn’t play for us if she took that many shots.

I did she handle the rock so much I assumed she was the point lol. No discipline. That’s not a system.

 

[BroadwayVa]

They run the similar offenses. And Muffets players are well-conditioned, physically, and play every minute of the game to the best of their ability.

Of course, both Geno and Muffet learned from Jim Foster, so.....

You are right---Muffet, isn't stupid, she takes, as Geno takes, from Geno and uses anything she can use with her existing players. There is something about---The greatest praise of another is ??? Seems Muffet is often praising Geno.
Tara has in recent years modified her offenses--she needs work on defensive's to again be in the ND/Uconn category--but she shall.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Agree completely but it really helps when you can continuously recruit smart, talented and highly motivated players. As Geno has said many times, “the key to motivating your team is to recruit highly motivated players.”

@oldude---Some (un-named) coaches in WBB recruit some talent that is, during recruiting, considered among the very best. Some Uconn WBB fans were envious. As the season's progress it becomes apparent that lots of Talent alone wasn't the particular answer.

Geno is OPEN, he allows many coaches who ask to attend his practices and to pick his brain--that's OPEN. So why don't other coaches, who aren't ignorant on BB or low intelligent individuals, why can't they come close to matching his successes.
The unique qualities only Geno possesses: The ability to get 18 to 23 year olds to believe and accept his really really really physically and mentally demanding priorities, to use their own intelligence and physical attributes to their fullest.

Heck--it's easy any coach of WBB can do it--isn't it written somewhere--women are easier to coach than MEN???

 

[oldude]

@oldude---Some (un-named) coaches in WBB recruit some talent that is, during recruiting, considered among the very best. Some Uconn WBB fans were envious. As the season's progress it becomes apparent that lots of Talent alone wasn't the particular answer.

Geno is OPEN, he allows many coaches who ask to attend his practices and to pick his brain--that's OPEN. So why don't other coaches, who aren't ignorant on BB or low intelligent individuals, why can't they come close to matching his successes.
The unique qualities only Geno possesses: The ability to get 18 to 23 year olds to believe and accept his really really really physically and mentally demanding priorities, to use their own intelligence and physical attributes to their fullest.

Heck--it's easy any coach of WBB can do it--isn't it written somewhere--women are easier to coach than MEN???

No doubt Geno and his staff bring out the best in their players, but it all starts with getting the right players to buy into the system and be able to make it work.

 

[j66kicker]

Haven't heard anything from them...
I really tried to word it in an inoffensive way
Why do you find it so?
If it was a guy, there wouldn't be a peep.
Do woman get special. preferential treatment?
I've always been a big supporter of complete inequality.
Was even attacked by a parent in High School open school week for such remarks.
Sensed it might ruffle some feathers as it did yours;
but I'm not exactly sure why.

I thought your comments were fine. And true.

 

[BroadwayVa]

No.
doubt Geno and his staff bring out the best in their players, but it all starts with getting the right players to buy into the system and be able to make it work.

Of course you were right and now too are correct: As Geno has stated many times during his career---Top talent recruits/player make a coach look really good. You don't have his success without REAL top talent--that is a given. If I appeared to argue against that--I apologize, that would be an ignorant argument (not that I don't use ignorance)

My argument/comment (I don't argue with you) was that other coaches tend to get top talent, some import Europeans with expertise, some recruit away from Uconn the best of the best. It would appear they don't have Geno's success. No point in repeating here my thought on that subject.
NO Disagreement--you can't win with out top talent--look at Uconn's down years for proof.

 

[UConnCat]

Maybe on offense. Shepard is a better passer and has more sophisticated offensive game. Turner is a better finisher from close range. Also better in transition.

Here's what Debbie said:

Notre Dame

Shepard's eligibility changes everything for ND. While Turner is a terrific defensive player (rim protector and rebounder) most of her offense was on put-backs and drop-offs. Shepard is a pick and pop player who can score outside beyond the arc or at the high post, is a better passer and facilitator. Up til now Mabrey has been the 4th option on offense. Shepard brings a better skill set to what McGraw likes to run.

South Carolina

They're better this year than last year even though this year might not result in a championship. They are easier to watch, better team speed, the ball moves better and doesn't get stuck and Jennings is a better compliment to Wilson than Coates was. Jennings could be (and should be) the best offensive rebounder in the country. She's the perfect compliment to Wilson and gives SC a big and powerful front line. They are better than I thought they'd be.

Debbie and David also talked about the transfer rule, specifically Shepard's eligibility. She's not ready to go to immediate eligibility for all transfers but is concerned about how a player is eligible here and another one isn't over there. There's no way to know the justification for these decisions. She did point out Florida State's success in getting transfers immediately eligible (e.g., Chatrice White) and wondered if that played a role in Shepard's eligibility. In other words, how do you allow it for one ACC team and not for another ACC team. She and David agreed that these decisions can shape the balance of power in WBB.

Here's a link

Dishin and Swishin | Debbie Antonelli On College Season And More

 

[oldude]

Of course you were right and now too are correct: As Geno has stated many times during his career---Top talent recruits/player make a coach look really good. You don't have his success without REAL top talent--that is a given. If I appeared to argue against that--I apologize, that would be an ignorant argument (not that I don't use ignorance)

My argument/comment (I don't argue with you) was that other coaches tend to get top talent, some import Europeans with expertise, some recruit away from Uconn the best of the best. It would appear they don't have Geno's success. No point in repeating here my thought on that subject.
NO Disagreement--you can't win with out top talent--look at Uconn's down years for proof.

Excellent point. Of course you can also recruit top talent and still not win consistently, like a certain program in TN.

 

[Teacherdeb]

Haven't heard anything from them...
I really tried to word it in an inoffensive way
Why do you find it so?
If it was a guy, there wouldn't be a peep.
Do woman get special. preferential treatment?
I've always been a big supporter of complete inequality.
Was even attacked by a parent in High School open school week for such remarks.
Sensed it might ruffle some feathers as it did yours;
but I'm not exactly sure why.

There's an extreme sensitivity to weight comments regarding women, much more so than men, because of the unattainable ideal that a gal can't be too thin. Women have been tortured by this expectation and few guys can even begin to understand it. Women and women athletes have a variety of body types and thinking that they would be better if they lost weight is demeaning and just wrong. Mawbrey played most of the game at a fast pace and didn't appear to be winded or tired- and scored 21 points, so why would 20 pounds less make her better?

 

[UConnCat]

 

[oldude]

There's an extreme sensitivity to weight comments regarding women, much more so than men, because of the unattainable ideal that a gal can't be too thin. Women have been tortured by this expectation and few guys can even begin to understand it. Women and women athletes have a variety of body types and thinking that they would be better if they lost weight is demeaning and just wrong. Mawbrey played most of the game at a fast pace and didn't appear to be winded or tired- and scored 21 points, so why would 20 pounds less make her better?

Wonderful post. I just watched Marty last night on TCM, one of my favorite all-time movies made in 1955, in which two lonely souls with self-image problems, played by Ernest Borgnine & Betsy Blair find each other. Marty, played by Borgnine, is badgered by his so-called friends to dump Clara, played by Blair, who they ridicule for her looks. In the end Marty rejects his friends cruel insensitivity and chooses to be with Clara.

The picture was nominated for 8 Academy Awards, winning 4 including Best Picture and Best Actor (Borgnine). It had immense appeal in its day and still resonates today because there are a lot more Marty's and Clara's out there than there are people with perfect looks and body types.

 

[BigBird]

There's an extreme sensitivity to weight comments regarding women, much more so than men, because of the unattainable ideal that a gal can't be too thin. Women have been tortured by this expectation and few guys can even begin to understand it. Women and women athletes have a variety of body types and thinking that they would be better if they lost weight is demeaning and just wrong. Mawbrey played most of the game at a fast pace and didn't appear to be winded or tired- and scored 21 points, so why would 20 pounds less make her better?

Agreed, until you got to the last sentence. Several of the ND players were walking through their version of the motion offense in the fourth quarter. Don’t just follow the ball. The ND posts were nearly sedentary when they didn’t have the ball. While I don’t care to hash out body image issues (I have been overweight my entire life), being slower or more easily fatigued than your opponent absolutely is a legitimate area for discussion. How we conduct that dialogue obviously matters too. We applaud our players for being quicker than their opponents, and there are reasons for their advantage. Exploring those reasons however, probably requires some diplomacy.

 

[oldude]

Agreed, until you got to the last sentence. Several of the ND players were walking through their version of the motion offense in the fourth quarter. Don’t just follow the ball. The ND posts were nearly sedentary when they didn’t have the ball. While I don’t care to hash out body image issues (I have been overweight my entire life), being slower or more easily fatigued than your opponent absolutely is a legitimate area for discussion. How we conduct that dialogue obviously matters too. We applaud our players for being quicker than their opponents, and there are reasons for their advantage. Exploring those reasons however, probably requires some diplomacy.

UConn's own KML was the subject of considerable discussion about her weight for the 4 years she was in Storrs, but during those 4 years, there wasn't another player on the team whose hands I would rather have the ball in taking the last shot in a close game.

 

[bballnut90]

With the success that Uconn is having with its program, I’m wondering if any other coaches are running the same or similar system. Any thoughts on programs which you believe are Uconn like at any level?

Others have mentioned Notre Dame—the programs have run very similar offenses the last 6-7 years, the main difference being that Notre Dame’s guards seem to have more freedom (for better or worse) to drive the lane and get their own shot while UCONN runs an offense that relies more on picks and precise passing rather than dribble penetration.

Notre Dame’s strength has been their guard play while UCONN’s has been their forwards and front court. Obviously players like Turner, Jefferson, Peters, Hartley, etc have had massive impacts but the difference makers in many games have been Stewart, Diggins, Tuck, Dolson or McBride. This time around it was Stevens.

Defensively I don’t see a lot of similarities between the two....Notre Dame is rarely a strong defensive team.

 

[oldude]

Others have mentioned Notre Dame—the programs have run very similar offenses the last 6-7 years, the main difference being that Notre Dame’s guards seem to have more freedom (for better or worse) to drive the lane and get their own shot while UCONN runs an offense that relies more on picks and precise passing rather than dribble penetration.

Notre Dame’s strength has been their guard play while UCONN’s has been their forwards and front court. Obviously players like Turner, Jefferson, Peters, Hartley, etc have had massive impacts but the difference makers in many games have been Stewart, Diggins, Tuck, Dolson or McBride. This time around it was Stevens.

Defensively I don’t see a lot of similarities between the two....Notre Dame is rarely a strong defensive team.

Absolutely correct, although I do see a greater tendency on the part of the Huskies to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket this year vs last year.

 

[BigBird]

UConn's own KML was the subject of considerable discussion about her weight for the 4 years she was in Storrs, but during those 4 years, there wasn't another player on the team whose hands I would rather have the ball in taking the last shot in a close game.

I well know that, and I agree. And KML was nowhere near as slow as some made her out to be. Her endurance was good - she was one heck of an athlete. I felt that the discussions of her fitness often lacked the respectful diplomacy that I called for in my previous message. What I saw late-game from ND’s bigs was something that did raise some fitness questions, even if (like most things) we might draw differing conclusions.

 

[oldude]

I well know that, and I agree. And KML was nowhere near as slow as some made her out to be. Her endurance was good - she was one heck of an athlete. I felt that the discussions of her fitness often lacked the respectful diplomacy that I called for in my previous message. What I saw late-game from ND’s bigs was something that did raise some fitness questions, even if (like most things) we might draw differing conclusions.

Everyone sees things differently. IMHO, ND’s 4th qtr collapse had more to do with the Huskies raising their game and the Irish losing their poise, than a lack of fitness by ND.

 

[BigBird]

Everyone sees things differently. IMHO, ND’s 4th qtr collapse had more to do with the Huskies raising their game and the Irish losing their poise, than a lack of fitness by ND.

These three notions aren’t mutually exclusive. I watch UConn players move without the ball, and there is typically a chasm separating their energy level and that of their opponents.

 

[bballnut90]

Absolutely correct, although I do see a greater tendency on the part of the Huskies to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket this year vs last year.

Agreed. Crystal is much more comfortable going into the lane than Chong was. Williams and Samuelson also will put the ball on the floor and drive. Not as much from Nurse or Collier.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Lots of coaches run similar programs on the court. IMHO there are two major differences that set apart the UCONN program.

1) Geno's willingness to sit anyone who does not play the way they are taught. All players must execute team defense and team offense or they do not play. Two great point guards we recently saw for UCLA and ND would have been benched for their play. It's Geno's way or the pine way.

2) CD's absolute attention to detail in every area of the ladies lives. Things like not letting DT go around campus with her shoes untied. Enforcing dress code and also setting up fun side trips make the UConn experience more of a family.

At Uconn it's the little things that make a big difference

 

[donalddoowop]

Geno is caustic, sarcastic, sometimes insulting to his players, but he can also be very funny, sweet and charming. Somebody, may be Jeff Jacobs once said that Geno can be a very successful stand in comic. So he can get away with his criticism while others coaches cannot. In addition, Geno has a relationship and loyalty with his players, old and new which is formed by bonds of hard work and achieved excellence and of course championships. Try to duplicate that!!!

He can get away with his caustic, sarcastic, and insulting ways, as long as UCONN continues to win NCs.