Connecticut is the largest state without a top 5 conf school

[UConnJim]

This is insane. Connecticut is the 29th most populated state in the US (and surely much higher in wealth) and it is the largest state that does not contain at least one school that is in one of the top5 conferences. In fact, there are 7 states that are smaller than Connecticut that contain 1 or 2 top 5 conference teams: Iowa 2, Mississippi 2, Arkansas 1, Kansas 2, Utah 1, Nebraska 1, West Virginia 1. The 5 next larger states than Connecticut contain 9 top 5 schools. How can UConn not be included?

 

[noeynox]

Thanks. We are tallest midget. I feel better now.

 

[Chuck]

This is insane. Connecticut is the 29th most populated state in the US (and surely much higher in wealth) and it is the largest state that does not contain at least one school that is in one of the top5 conferences. In fact, there are 7 states that are smaller than Connecticut that contain 1 or 2 top 5 conference teams: Iowa 2, Mississippi 2, Arkansas 1, Kansas 2, Utah 1, Nebraska 1, West Virginia 1. The 5 next larger states than Connecticut contain 9 top 5 schools. How can UConn not be included?

To make it even more impressive, look at the population of New England on the whole. It has no state U in a top 5. You can even stretch that to include NY. People follow their state universities. It's where they went, it's where their neighbors and their kids went. It's just a state pride thing. Nobody cares about BC or Syracuse unless they have a direct tie there. Realignment has turned off a gigantic part of the country.

 

[Whale22]

To make it even more impressive, look at the population of New England on the whole. It has no state U in a top 5. You can even stretch that to include NY. People follow their state universities. It's where they went, it's where their neighbors and their kids went. It's just a state pride thing. Nobody cares about BC or Syracuse unless they have a direct tie there. Realignment has turned off a gigantic part of the country.

You're starting to touch on the small Northeast Private college vs the Large Land Grant University issue. I do not know the statistics but I am sure if you broke down the college students and what kind of college they went to you would see a greater percentage of the Northeast students going to private colleges over large public universities. A lot of it has to do with geography, culture, and how and when each state was formed. You could bring this all the way back and it explains why counties have no power in CT verse large county influence in the South. But I digress.

 

[UConn9604]

This is insane. Connecticut is the 29th most populated state in the US (and surely much higher in wealth) and it is the largest state that does not contain at least one school that is in one of the top5 conferences. In fact, there are 7 states that are smaller than Connecticut that contain 1 or 2 top 5 conference teams: Iowa 2, Mississippi 2, Arkansas 1, Kansas 2, Utah 1, Nebraska 1, West Virginia 1. The 5 next larger states than Connecticut contain 9 top 5 schools. How can UConn not be included?

For the same reason that Hartford regularly tops the lists of the largest metropolitan areas without a pro sports team, and yet will likely never get one. We have a ton of sports fans, but most of their allegiances are already elsewhere, and we're close enough to one large and one mega sports region that most of the state falls under one or both of their umbrellas.

It is amazing to think, however, that -- if this is all about TV and money -- the SEC has 5 of 14 members (Miss. St., Ole Miss, Auburn, Alabama, South Carolina), or nearly 36% of its membership, in three states that combined to have about the same incomes as Connecticut (Mississippi $10.9B + Alabama $24.1B + South Carolina $20.5B = $55.5B vs. Connecticut $54.2B). Our luxury eyeballs have to be worth something to someone someday.

 

[UConn990411]

Ironically, we can thank the corporation that calls Connecticut its home for UConn's current situation.

 

[Adios]

It's just timing. We'll get there.

 

[ruskin]

Even though the OP's point has been mentioned several times before, it's one that really needs to hammered home on a frequent basis.

The problem is it has to be hammered home by our state's "leaders" in Hartford and DC, and by now it should be pretty clear UConn's conference status is not really a big deal to them. These guys all love the camera as much as Blumenthal and yet the last time we heard from a politician on this was Malloy after Syracuse & Pitt left for the ACC almost two years ago.
And that I suppose would be fine except when you look at some of the stuff they devote their time and "political capital" to. (The recent state legislation about mattresses and giving animals legal representation comes to mind).

BTW the way these guys all love to hammer "corporate greed" it is amazing they haven't said word 1 about the ESPN layoffs. The lack of balls to critcize the 800-pound gorilla in their backyard is appalling.

 

[alsacs]

Ironically, we can thank the corporation that calls Connecticut its home for UConn's current situation.

I understand the anger at ESPN because they have given the ACC more money, but we have Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, West Virginia, and Notre Dame to blame for the Big East blowing up NOT ESPN.
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleg...05/26/for_big_east_where_is_all_this_leading/

The Big East got greedy and turned DOWN 1 BILLION dollars. How much is enough? The Big East would have paid the football schools 11 million per year if the Big East had taken that deal its likely Syracuse, Pittsburgh never leave. Notre Dame continues the status quo, and the ACC becomes vulnerable to poaching from the B1G beyond just Maryland. UConn's current situation is not ESPN's fault as much as its greed from former Big East schools in that May 2011 meeting. Tim Pernetti and Steve Pederson should be bigger villains to you guys than they actually are and not ESPN. ESPN tried to give the Big East a good contract, but greed caused the conference to fall apart. ESPN did subsidize ACC expansion, but ESPN couldn't tell the ACC who to add beyond telling them who they would pay more for we don't know for sure if ESPN didn't say we would pay more for UConn than Pitt, but because Pitt got selected by the ACC its ESPN's fault.

Also, in retrospect those school leaders were flat out idiots because even if the Big East when on the open market ESPN would have had an option to match any offer. I doubt NBCSN or FOX would have offered significantly more, and the lack of loyalty the Big East showed ESPN in declining that offer to go on the open market was stupid. If I have a client I have done business with for a long time and they make me a good offer I won't complain if instead of charging them 500 dollars I charge them 350 because its a healthy compensation and is a sign of good faith.

Its sad, but everything in that article basically happened, all because Pitt and Rutgers wanted more.

 

[UConnJim]

I understand the anger at ESPN because they have given the ACC more money, but we have Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, West Virginia, and Notre Dame to blame for the Big East blowing up NOT ESPN.
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleg...05/26/for_big_east_where_is_all_this_leading/

The Big East got greedy and turned DOWN 1 BILLION dollars. How much is enough? The Big East would have paid the football schools 14 million per year if the Big East had taken that deal its likely Syracuse, Pittsburgh never leave. Notre Dame continues the status quo, and the ACC becomes vulnerable to poaching from the B1G beyond just Maryland. UConn's current situation is not ESPN's fault as much as its greed from former Big East schools in that May 2011 meeting. Tim Pernetti and Steve Pederson should be bigger villains to you guys than they actually are and not ESPN. ESPN tried to give the Big East a good contract, but greed caused the conference to fall apart. ESPN did subsidize ACC expansion, but ESPN couldn't tell the ACC who to add beyond telling them who they would pay more for we don't know for sure if ESPN didn't say we would pay more for UConn than Pitt, but because Pitt got selected by the ACC its ESPN's fault.

Sure, lots of blame to go around and there were a lot of deception by a number of Big East schools. ESPN played a major role as well in so many ways including taking every opportunity to downplay any Big East football accomplishment,... Personally, I don't think Pitt got selected over UConn because of better athletic performance, better fan support, better school, or better financial performance. What Pitt brought to the party that UConn did not was a long term football relationship with Notre Dame which was crucially valuable to the ACC as we have come to find out in hindsight. That was the trump card.

Pitt has given up a lot to help break up the Big East and join the ACC and I hope it works out for them. They gave up their annual football game with ND which will now be played about once every three years. They lost their annual game with West Virginia, the Backyard Brawl. And, they lost the annual basketball tournament at MSG. They are trying to play Penn St every year to make up for the loss of WVU and ND every other year at home and maybe PSU will commit to playing every year.

 

[mike012]

I am pretty sure unless ESPN offered the Big East 17 million a piece that Syracue and Pitt would have jumped. Even though if we had a better commisioner at the time it is possible he could have done some better explaning to the AD's. Or talked them into a GOR and asked espn for 14-15 million a team. Maybe then TCU stays and the big 12 starts to fall apart.........Things could have been a lot different if they had really looked for a really shark commissoner 4/5 years ago. Meatball was a good right hand man kind of guy... never had it to be the shark of the group.

 

[noeynox]

I am pretty sure unless ESPN offered the Big East 17 million a piece that Syracue and Pitt would have jumped. Even though if we had a better commisioner at the time it is possible he could have done some better explaning to the AD's. Or talked them into a GOR and asked espn for 14-15 million a team. Maybe then TCU stays and the big 12 starts to fall apart.........Things could have been a lot different if they had really looked for a really shark commissoner 4/5 years ago. Meatball was a good right hand man kind of guy... never had it to be the shark of the group.

If the Big East had accepted the offer, does ESPN finance another raid of the the Big East for the ACC? Even if they did, I doubt they would have made it as profitable for the acc as they did.

 

[alsacs]

I am pretty sure unless ESPN offered the Big East 17 million a piece that Syracue and Pitt would have jumped. Even though if we had a better commisioner at the time it is possible he could have done some better explaning to the AD's. Or talked them into a GOR and asked espn for 14-15 million a team. Maybe then TCU stays and the big 12 starts to fall apart.........Things could have been a lot different if they had really looked for a really shark commissoner 4/5 years ago. Meatball was a good right hand man kind of guy... never had it to be the shark of the group.

This is a reasonable opinion, but I believe if the Big East had taken the deal that paid its football schools 14 million dollars a year coming off a contract that was only paying them 2-4 million their would have been more loyalty. Also, the ACC's original contract was only going to pay its member 15 million a year. Its doubtful Syracuse would have left for 1 million more a year with all the new travel and Syracuse wanted to vote for the ESPN offer. Pitt, WVU, RU thought the Big East would get a lot more from NBC, but honestly this was short-sided and almost everything Blaudschum speculated occurred.

If the ACC was paying 15 million and the Big East was paying 14 million and Maryland was being wooed by the B1G and Delany even stated atleast 6 schools signed non-disclosure agreements the B1G was targeting the ACC back in 2011 the ACC would have been more vulnerable than the Big East. If the Big East signs that contract even if schools left I bet you would be getting more money than the contract the AAC signed with ESPN. ESPN would have likely reduced the Big East K, but not down to 2 million dollars a year.

My point was though instead of giving the lion's share of the blame to ESPN look at Rutgers and Pitt and realize they are the real culprits of the destruction of the Big East by leading the group into declining that good/fair offer from ESPN. Also, Marinatto was completely in over his head and only got the job to keep all the power with little old Providence College. The man was fired from the AD job at Providence College and somehow earned the job as Big East Commissioner following Mike Tranghese.

 

[mike012]

Who voted meatball in anway? The 1million dollar question is if the big east actually did some homework like the pac 12 did.. What if we hired larry scott does he take the big east were it needed to be.? I think yes, they needed a visionary like someone who was willing to invite half of the big 12 probably as Beebe was standing next to him talking to him. He didn't care and did what he thought he had to do to get his conference to the top... We never had that

 

[The Funster]

Meh, the whole CR thing is stupid. Good rivalries, across the nation, have been sacrificed for a few $ more.

 

[ruskin]

ESPN did subsidize ACC expansion, but ESPN couldn't tell the ACC who to add beyond telling them who they would pay more for we don't know for sure if ESPN didn't say we would pay more for UConn than Pitt, but because Pitt got selected by the ACC its ESPN's fault.

That is BS. ESPN could have 'greased the skids' for UConn. Let's play the "blind resume" comparison used around NCAA basketball selection time. If ESPN had cleverly put UConn's demographics/population/intensity of interest/reach of interest info on a sheet compared to Pitt and Syracuse's (and BC's, for that matter) and had the ACC committee "flip the cards" to show UConn blows all three of the others away it would have made the point for them without "showing favoritism", whatever the means. Sort of like Costanza "not have a meeting" with the Mets executives.

 

[UPitt]

This is a reasonable opinion, but I believe if the Big East had taken the deal that paid its football schools 14 million dollars a year coming off a contract that was only paying them 2-4 million their would have been more loyalty. Also, the ACC's original contract was only going to pay its member 15 million a year. Its doubtful Syracuse would have left for 1 million more a year with all the new travel and Syracuse wanted to vote for the ESPN offer. Pitt, WVU, RU thought the Big East would get a lot more from NBC, but honestly this was short-sided and almost everything Blaudschum speculated occurred.

If the ACC was paying 15 million and the Big East was paying 14 million and Maryland was being wooed by the B1G and Delany even stated atleast 6 schools signed non-disclosure agreements the B1G was targeting the ACC back in 2011 the ACC would have been more vulnerable than the Big East. If the Big East signs that contract even if schools left I bet you would be getting more money than the contract the AAC signed with ESPN. ESPN would have likely reduced the Big East K, but not down to 2 million dollars a year.

My point was though instead of giving the lion's share of the blame to ESPN look at Rutgers and Pitt and realize they are the real culprits of the destruction of the Big East by leading the group into declining that good/fair offer from ESPN. Also, Marinatto was completely in over his head and only got the job to keep all the power with little old Providence College. The man was fired from the AD job at Providence College and somehow earned the job as Big East Commissioner following Mike Tranghese.

I think Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers should shoulder the blame for turning down the TV contract, but at the time it looked like the right thing to do with the Pac 12 recently signing a huge contract. In hindsight, these schools were wrong for turning down the deal.

As for the Big East crumbling, many people had a hand in that. PSU not getting invited in the 90s. Miami getting invited in the 90s. Bad blood between C7 and football schools. The ACC for targeting teams in 2003. FOX and NBC for getting into bidding wars with ESPN. Uconn for filing a lawsuit against the ACC and hurting the Big East / ACC relationship. Pitt for joining the lawsuit. Uconn, Pitt, and Cuse for comments made that continued to hurt Big East / ACC relationship. BC for being butthurt at the Big East. ESPN for offering a lower offer than expected. Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers for not accepting the offer. BE commish for not leading the conference better. Uconn and Cuse for being interested in the ACC. The ACC for being interested in Uconn and Cuse. Bad timing of contract renewal in ACC. ESPN for offering to restructure the ACC contract if the ACC added teams. BC for not accepting Uconn. Pitt and Cuse for leaving to the ACC. WVU for leaving to the Big 12. Ville for leaving. ND for leaving. C7 leaving. NBC for offering a poor contract. ESPN for matching it. Really bad decisions and leadership by the BE commish.

In summary, a lot of people had a hand in this mess with some people doing more harm than others. But the underlying issue with the Big East was lack of leadership and trust. Issues between the basketball and football schools brewed for 25 years and set a tone for distrust within the Big East leadership.

 

[alsacs]

That is BS. ESPN could have 'greased the skids' for UConn. Let's play the "blind resume" comparison used around NCAA basketball selection time. If ESPN had cleverly put UConn's demographics/population/intensity of interest/reach of interest info on a sheet compared to Pitt and Syracuse's (and BC's, for that matter) and had the ACC committee "flip the cards" to show UConn blows all three of the others away it would have made the point for them without "showing favoritism", whatever the means. Sort of like Costanza "not have a meeting" with the Mets executives.

This is where UConn fans want to blame ESPN. ESPN may have said we will give X dollars depending on whom you add among the available schools. Obviously, Notre Dame, Penn State would have been more, but you think ESPN is going to give the ACC significantly more for UConn than Pitt or Syracuse? I think all three are pretty similar in a vacuum. If ESPN was going to leverage UConn to any conference the B1G, ACC, SEC, conferences all would have added UConn previously and used the ESPN leverage to get a lot of money.

If ESPN offered an extra 15 million(1 million extra for each school and the ACC office) for UConn to be selected over one of Pitt/Syracuse who is to say that the ACC would have wanted UConn. I think most likely the extra 1 million per school w/UConn would have won out, but its possible they the ACC could have wanted Pitt/SU for other reasons(lawsuit?). You guys only make hypotheticals one way, and while its unlikely the ACC wouldn't have taken UConn for 1 million extra it is possible they would have been okay with 17 million which is what they got from SU/Pitt to 18 million with what UConn fans wanted ESPN to do and make it UConn and SU/Pitt

I think UConn should have been picked over Rutgers who brings absolutely NOTHING but a warm body into the B1G. They have won nothing and are close to NYC, but the best thing about them their football program has been built on a huge House of Cards that has made them mediocre nationally. ESPN is a private corporation if you want them to use the tax breaks towards UConn then you would need to give them a higher amount that the reported 15 million per year, and its just wrong to strong arm schools into conferences. The only instance it has occurred was Virginia Tech into the ACC because VA Governor Marc Warner. If VPI didn't go into the ACC in 2003 the program was still an upward trajectory that they would have been in the SEC with Texas A&M or have been snatched up by the ACC in subsequent raids. Strong arming is not going to work.

 

[tduconn]

Wealth & population centrics doesn't win us an invite to the BIG 5. If/when any sport fan outside of NE/NY turns on a UConn game and see a stadium less that half full I don't think they differentiate how many in the seats are wealthy or not.

What TV stations, advertisers, conferences MAY notice and question is why, with a densly populated state and region (NE).....they can't fill a 40,000 seat stadium or 16,000 seat arena at kickoff or tip off.. I wouldn't be surprised if advertisers notice the same and ask themselves " with so few eyeballs in the seats, how many eyeballs are watching on TV". Being a sarcastic devil's advocate......some advocates may ask why spend advertising dollars where ther seems to be a lack of support/interest?

Can't proclaim we bring Boston/NY market when it doesn't appear we can't bring interest in a smaller TV market.

As some "talking heads have suggested "over the last 6 months or so......Louisville was chosen because it brought the # 1 TV market for college basketball and one of the best TV markets for college football.
That means more interest from advertisers, higher revenues for Conferences.

We can complain about the teams, coaches, players, ESPN and other networks, but a big part of the image falls in the laps of us......the FANS.

A lot has to improve for image and interest to gain momentum with networks and conferences.

 

[alsacs]

I think Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers should shoulder the blame for turning down the TV contract, but at the time it looked like the right thing to do with the Pac 12 recently signing a huge contract. In hindsight, these schools were wrong for turning down the deal.

As for the Big East crumbling, many people had a hand in that. PSU not getting invited in the 90s. Miami getting invited in the 90s. Bad blood between C7 and football schools. The ACC for targeting teams in 2003. FOX and NBC for getting into bidding wars with ESPN. Uconn for filing a lawsuit against the ACC and hurting the Big East / ACC relationship. Pitt for joining the lawsuit. Uconn, Pitt, and Cuse for comments made that continued to hurt Big East / ACC relationship. BC for being butthurt at the Big East. ESPN for offering a lower offer than expected. Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers for not accepting the offer. BE commish for not leading the conference better. Uconn and Cuse for being interested in the ACC. The ACC for being interested in Uconn and Cuse. Bad timing of contract renewal in ACC. ESPN for offering to restructure the ACC contract if the ACC added teams. BC for not accepting Uconn. Pitt and Cuse for leaving to the ACC. WVU for leaving to the Big 12. Ville for leaving. ND for leaving. C7 leaving. NBC for offering a poor contract. ESPN for matching it. Really bad decisions and leadership by the BE commish.

In summary, a lot of people had a hand in this mess with some people doing more harm than others. But the underlying issue with the Big East was lack of leadership and trust. Issues between the basketball and football schools brewed for 25 years and set a tone for distrust within the Big East leadership.

I wonder who is working on a book called something like "The Last Night of the Big East Dynasty" a la Buster Olney with the NY Yankees. Some journalist is going to make a good amount of money writing that book as Big East fans will buy it and college realignment junkies would be interested as well.

 

[specialisthusky]

I wonder who is working on a book called something like "The Last Night of the Big East Dynasty" a la Buster Olney with the NY Yankees. Some journalist is going to make a good amount of money writing that book as Big East fans will buy it and college realignment junkies would be interested as well.

I'd be more interested in burning it.

 

[UPitt]

I wonder who is working on a book called something like "The Last Night of the Big East Dynasty" a la Buster Olney with the NY Yankees. Some journalist is going to make a good amount of money writing that book as Big East fans will buy it and college realignment junkies would be interested as well.

Not me. I'm more of a math guy. As I started listing some of the events, and I'm sure I missed a whole lot more, I was thinking the same thing. The Big East history with respect to realignment and expansion might be more interesting than the rest of the conferences combined. And if only one or two events had gone different the Big East could be the most powerful conference today.

 

[upstater]

You're starting to touch on the small Northeast Private college vs the Large Land Grant University issue. I do not know the statistics but I am sure if you broke down the college students and what kind of college they went to you would see a greater percentage of the Northeast students going to private colleges over large public universities. A lot of it has to do with geography, culture, and how and when each state was formed. You could bring this all the way back and it explains why counties have no power in CT verse large county influence in the South. But I digress.

This would be quite a feat to pull off since the private colleges are so small. Nationally, private schools make up less than 15% of all schools.

I think the power elite in the northeast come from private schools, which is why funding for public schools in the northeast is so low. In NY state, I once wrote down the names of US senators since the 60s, governors since the 60s, state house and senate leaders, majority and minority, since the 80s... and not a single one of them went to public school. Bruno, Silver, Clinton, Moynihan, McCall, Skelos, Pataki, Cuomos, D'Amato, Hillenbrand, Spitzer, etc.

This is why the state gives $50 million to Canisius and st. John's Fisher (for a new law school) while slashing tens of millions from state school and (ironically) U. Buffalo Law.

There is a real issue in the northeast. Outsiders are totally incredulous at the way things are run here. They can't believe it.

 

[Waquoit]

. If/when any sport fan outside of NE/NY turns on a UConn game and see a stadium less that half full I don't think they differentiate how many in the seats are wealthy or not.

Why do so many supposed UConn fans perpetuate this myth and exaggerate attendance for the worse? I've been to every game, the place has never been less than half full. And don't talk about leaving early. That's everywhere. I went to Michigan and folks were flooding out with over half the 4th quarter to play.

 

[upstater]

As some "talking heads have suggested "over the last 6 months or so......Louisville was chosen because it brought the # 1 TV market for college basketball and one of the best TV markets for college football.
That means more interest from advertisers, higher revenues for Conferences.

You always write this and I always answer. But we're on a merry go round.

That #1 market is looking at ratings inside the market only.

When it comes to multiplying rating times size of the market, the number is much less impressive.

AND, you need to realize that inside that market, you have UKentucky and a little of Indiana in addition to Louisville. The whole market is fragmented. So the numbers are not in Ville's favor when compared to UConn.

If you want to know what TV market is stronger, look at the tier 3 rights and the licensing. UConn dwarfs Ville in that regard, $25 million to $16 million.