OT: College in the COVID era

[NJHusky]

It kills me how casually some of these idiots are consigning a generation of kids to the scrap heap.

Can someone explain to me why it's ok for child care to be open in NJ but not schools? Could it be that nursery school teachers don't have a really well funded union???

 

[NJHusky]

I guess every company I've ever worked for or with and never once have I seen a member on any level of upper management that's majored in a social science. And for an earner making $130k+ I assume them to be upper/senior management

Probably that and some engrained stereotypes that things like English and other social sciences aren't high paying majors

That's about the starting salary (with signing bonus) of a 2020 grad I know.....Computer Science & Math Major from good engineering school...And he's working remotely first six months..

 

[HuskyHawk]

No, it won’t.

You need a bricks and mortar school because you need kids in that school with other kids.

Our local high school, in a fairly affluent district, decided to just boot education into the weeds. Kids will be remote only for six weeks and then go to school once a week for the rest of the year. In recognition of the fact that they’re really not actually teaching anyone anything, they’ve done away with the grading system as well.

Good luck applying for college with a series of Completes as your junior year grades.

The scramble for private school has been so intense that the schools’ guidance counselors have set away messages on their email and voice mail accounts so that they can plausibly delay sending transcripts parents need to place their kinds elsewhere.

Glad we are in private school. Full grades and testing even last spring. Hybrid is live two way, with kids on camera interacting with teachers and classmates in class. Not ideal. But a hell of a lot better than what our public school is doing.

For college the question is what you pay for. Full tuition for remote? Nah. I’m hopeful that next year will be normal. I walked around UNH today in a mask outside and that was, not necessary really. Just excessive. Inside sure, fine. They made an ok attempt at a tour when most are straight up closed.

 

[Dooooooomed]

 

[8893]

Handle/post!

I was pretty frosted when my daughter's college announced a little over a week ago that they would be closing campus and going solely remote for the fall semester, after spending all spring and summer priming us to expect an open campus and in-person instruction.

After attending a Zoom meeting with the Sr. VP last week I understood a good bit more about why they made the decision they did, given where we are with testing and spikes right now.

Their primary goal was to avoid having to switch back to remote after getting everyone back on campus, which would have been a worse logistical problem than simply starting out that way. He gave an example exactly like what is happening here and explained the logistical problem of having quarantines within quarantines, to the point where it would become more of a prison--i.e., not an open campus at all.

It hasn't taken long for UNC and this experience to show the wisdom in their decision. It sucks, but I don't have a better answer. And they are offering full refunds for anyone who wants to defer or withdraw, so it's not like a money grab either, which is what the cynic in me initially suspected.

 

[temery]

Over 30 years I had more than a dozen students, and others in my school but not in my class, miss all or most of a year due to illness. They all did fine when they returned.

 

[Ajs120102]

Michigan State told kids not to come to campus today. Notre Dame moved to remote for 2 weeks (they’ll end up sending them home inevitably). This will be the case across the board.

 

[8893]

Over 30 years I had more than a dozen students, and others in my school but not in my class, miss all or most of a year due to illness. They all did fine when they returned.

Can't believe I get to mention Tom Jones here twice in one day, but this reminds me that I learned from listening to the episode of the Desert Island Discs podcast featuring him that he was isolated at home for two years in his teens because he had tuberculosis.

He turned out okay.

 

[temery]

Can someone explain to me why it's ok for child care to be open in NJ but not schools? Could it be that nursery school teachers don't have a really well funded union???

One theory is younger kids are less likely to get sick, and their little lungs aren't able to spread the virus as well and as far as older kids. That, and very few decisions being made make much sense.

 

[temery]

Can't believe I get to mention Tom Jones here twice in one day, but this reminds me that I learned from listening to the episode of the Desert Island Discs podcast featuring him that he was isolated at home for two years in his teens because he had tuberculosis.

He turned out okay.

My mother missed a year of high school due to Rheumatic Fever. She graduated, graduated from Smith, and got a PhD from Tufts. Not bad.

 

[M.S.G.]

My mother missed a year of high school due to Rheumatic Fever. She graduated, graduated from Smith, and got a PhD from Tufts. Not bad.

I feel like there should have been a Jim Calhoun video attached here.

Graduated from Smith, PhD from Tufts, she's NOT bad!

 

[M.S.G.]

We got our schedule for the opening week of PD, absolute silliness, every building goes to the gym or the theater in staggered sessions, and many of the opening week training videos will be viewed alone in our classrooms virtually... So silly...

I doubt we even make it to the first day of school, this is so ridiculous.

 

[Kenny11]

And for elementary school kids, even more so. HS or even middle school from home, ok, maybe. Elementary school kids need to be fully in person. If a teacher is at risk, find a different teacher. Shift roles. I know an immune compromised teacher who applied for a remote job instead of her usual and got it. Better an inexperienced teacher in person than an experienced one on Zoom.

even middle school and high school kids (apart from maybe the most mature juniors and seniors) will not learn anything online. This is an educational disaster in a country that has already been damaged because of lack of education. Kids didn’t go to school from march through June, had the whole summer off and now have to go through online or “hybrid learning” which is inexcusable, especially in a state like Connecticut where the positive test rate is 1% or lower. Kids are feeling more depressed, more withdrawn, less motivated and abandoned by the schools and teachers who have shown they don’t give a crap about them at all. It’s disgusting. If it’s too dangerous to have school (after a 6 month period where plans could have been made) then no store or restaurant Or business of any kind should be open. If educating our kids isn’t essential, what is?
And yes, the federal government should give more money to the school systems to operate. Public Education has been Defunded For years in this country and the head of education in this country literally is against public education . It’s all so disgusting.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

even middle school and high school kids (apart from maybe the most mature juniors and seniors) will not learn anything online. This is an educational disaster in a country that has already been damaged because of lack of education.

I'm not saying it is as good as teaching in person, but having experience teaching middle school students live last school year from March to June, the kids learned something. In my math classes, on average, I finished the year about two weeks behind. Not ideal, but not as terrible as you might think.

The key though, is being available to teach online live, interact with the students, take questions, have discussions with the students and provide feedback both to their daily work but also their assessments. Thankfully, my school did that right away after Spring Break and we'll be ready to go back online whenever that happens. I saved a lot of time and effort conferencing with my students verbally, displaying their work on my screen than writing a bunch of comments that most will be unread. But this was only possible due to my small class sizes. It would have been impossible with 25 per class.

Anyways, first day for teachers is today and it'll be my first time in school since March. I can't lie, I'm incredibly anxious and it's hard to have even an hour not thinking about it, but once the kids start coming it'll feel better to get the ball rolling, even though I have no idea how it'll look.

 

[upstater]

even middle school and high school kids (apart from maybe the most mature juniors and seniors) will not learn anything online. This is an educational disaster in a country that has already been damaged because of lack of education. Kids didn’t go to school from march through June, had the whole summer off and now have to go through online or “hybrid learning” which is inexcusable, especially in a state like Connecticut where the positive test rate is 1% or lower. Kids are feeling more depressed, more withdrawn, less motivated and abandoned by the schools and teachers who have shown they don’t give a crap about them at all. It’s disgusting. If it’s too dangerous to have school (after a 6 month period where plans could have been made) then no store or restaurant Or business of any kind should be open. If educating our kids isn’t essential, what is?
And yes, the federal government should give more money to the school systems to operate. Public Education has been Defunded For years in this country and the head of education in this country literally is against public education . It’s all so disgusting.

I share some of your sentiments, except for the distress over the lack of education here. In studies that account for our poverty rate, we're actually pretty good in educational attainment. Math and literacy are really high when you measure the top 90% of students. We're in the top 4.

Our bottom 10% drag the levels of American education from top 4 to 15-20. We have a massive dropout rate too. When compared to European countries who have much more social welfare for people in the bottom decile, we look bad. If you take the top 90% though, we look good.

 

[Lefty2one]

This generation of kids will be called "The lost generation."

I thought that was already Millenials thanks to being destroyed by student loan debt, a terrible job market, fading middle class, etc.

It's a wonderful new American tradition: instead of parents feeling confident about their children leading a better life than they did they're praying their kids will be out of the house by age 30.

 

[Improviser]

I thought that was already Millenials thanks to being destroyed by student loan debt, a terrible job market, fading middle class, etc.

It's a wonderful new American tradition: instead of parents feeling confident about their children leading a better life than they did they're praying their kids will be out of the house by age 30.

Out by 30 can be optimistic. Sometimes, never out or if they are out, the grandchildren are in.

I have read that often when kids have kids, not infrequently, the grandparents wind up raising your kids' kids, because of bad decisions made by your kids and their self-induced substance abuse or opiod abuse, or spousal abuse.

 

[upstater]

Things change.

Look at Italy. Personal private debt is very low. Home ownership is very high. Homes are passed down through generations. People live with parents until a very late age, take over the home when parents die, or else they get an apartment maybe in their late 30s (often returning to parents home each evening for dinner or laundry), only to take over the home once the parents pass.

Not saying that this will be America, but there are any number of ways to do it.

In most population centers throughout the country, there are very good universities, so many students simply attend their hometown school and thereby save on room and board.

 

[superjohn]

I thought that was already Millenials thanks to being destroyed by student loan debt, a terrible job market, fading middle class, etc.

It's a wonderful new American tradition: instead of parents feeling confident about their children leading a better life than they did they're praying their kids will be out of the house by age 30.

Let's just say I'm really happy to have grown up when I did, it seems like it's all gone to hell since then.

 

[Improviser]

Things change.

Look at Italy. Personal private debt is very low. Home ownership is very high. Homes are passed down through generations. People live with parents until a very late age, take over the home when parents die, or else they get an apartment maybe in their late 30s (often returning to parents home each evening for dinner or laundry), only to take over the home once the parents pass.

Not saying that this will be America, but there are any number of ways to do it.

In most population centers throughout the country, there are very good universities, so many students simply attend their hometown school and thereby save on room and board.

Sounds like we are talking about solid, responsible, and respectable people, with high regard for parents.

Not that way everywhere.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I'm not saying it is as good as teaching in person, but having experience teaching middle school students live last school year from March to June, the kids learned something. In my math classes, on average, I finished the year about two weeks behind. Not ideal, but not as terrible as you might think.

The key though, is being available to teach online live, interact with the students, take questions, have discussions with the students and provide feedback both to their daily work but also their assessments. Thankfully, my school did that right away after Spring Break and we'll be ready to go back online whenever that happens. I saved a lot of time and effort conferencing with my students verbally, displaying their work on my screen than writing a bunch of comments that most will be unread. But this was only possible due to my small class sizes. It would have been impossible with 25 per class.

Anyways, first day for teachers is today and it'll be my first time in school since March. I can't lie, I'm incredibly anxious and it's hard to have even an hour not thinking about it, but once the kids start coming it'll feel better to get the ball rolling, even though I have no idea how it'll look.

The term I learned from my sister's and her son's schooling is synchronous and asynchronous online learning. Synchronous learning means the kids are online at the same time the course is being taught. Asynchronous meaning the teacher creates the content and the kids access it when they choose to access it.

My grad work with online was all asynchronous and it works well for adults who need to balance work and life with school. I believe this method works better for older students.

For kids who are grade school and maybe even through middle school I think synchronous teaching is better. Part of what kids are learning while in school is how to deal with and learn within time constraints.

Even with in-person schooling not all kids have their brain schedule lined up with the school schedule. Not all kids are early risers and are ready to process information at 8:00am.

One thing I am a huge advocate of with the online learning is keeping the content available for a week or two at a time for students to be able to retrieve and review the content as needed.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The term I learned from my sister's and her son's schooling is synchronous and asynchronous online learning. Synchronous learning means the kids are online at the same time the course is being taught. Asynchronous meaning the teacher creates the content and the kids access it when they choose to access it.

My grad work with online was all asynchronous and it works well for adults who need to balance work and life with school. I believe this method works better for older students.

For kids who are grade school and maybe even through middle school I think synchronous teaching is better. Part of what kids are learning while in school is how to deal with and learn within time constraints.

Even with in-person schooling not all kids have their brain schedule lined up with the school schedule. Not all kids are early risers and are ready to process information at 8:00am.

One thing I am a huge advocate of with the online learning is keeping the content available for a week or two at a time for students to be able to retrieve and review the content as needed.

My daughter's HS is going to open in hybrid mode, half home - half in (except for the 5% who chose full remote) but it is fully Synchronous. All classrooms with two way audio video so any remote kid is seeing the classroom live, can ask questions live, can be called on by the teacher live. For all levels of K-12 and some college I think this is vastly preferable to Asynchronous.

Certainly kids function better at different times of the day, but that's where homework comes in. I would note as well that without the drive to school, drive home etc. those at home getting Synchronous classes still have increased flexibility. It's like me working from home today. I have 4-5 meetings scheduled, which are live, but then I get the rest of my work done on my own schedule.

 

[Chuck]

My daughter's HS is going to open in hybrid mode, half home - half in (except for the 5% who chose full remote) but it is fully Synchronous. All classrooms with two way audio video so any remote kid is seeing the classroom live, can ask questions live, can be called on by the teacher live. For all levels of K-12 and some college I think this is vastly preferable to Asynchronous.

Certainly kids function better at different times of the day, but that's where homework comes in. I would note as well that without the drive to school, drive home etc. those at home getting Synchronous classes still have increased flexibility. It's like me working from home today. I have 4-5 meetings scheduled, which are live, but then I get the rest of my work done on my own schedule.

My kids will both be freshman. The school system is going hybrid with a combination of synchronous and asynchronous learning. They alternate an A day and B day. If it's your day, you learn in person (probably 42% attendance due to opt-outs). If it's not your day, you have a combination of synchronous (video of live class) and/or asynchronous (assignments and tests). Yes, the tests are supposed to be done on non-in-person days. The principal felt that in-person time is precious and shouldn't be wasted with a test. Will there be rampant cheating? Probably, but they can control that if they try.

You can opt-out and attend your A or B assigned day by video. If you opt-out, you can't opt back in until the next marking period. If you opt-in, you can opt-out at any time. So I think people are generally opting in for Day 1.

Both kids have started soccer practices. Right now it's all conditioning, so they are somewhat social distanced. They start drills tomorrow and practice through next week, then stop until September.

Good luck everyone!!

 

[Chin Diesel]

My daughter's HS is going to open in hybrid mode, half home - half in (except for the 5% who chose full remote) but it is fully Synchronous. All classrooms with two way audio video so any remote kid is seeing the classroom live, can ask questions live, can be called on by the teacher live. For all levels of K-12 and some college I think this is vastly preferable to Asynchronous.

Certainly kids function better at different times of the day, but that's where homework comes in. I would note as well that without the drive to school, drive home etc. those at home getting Synchronous classes still have increased flexibility. It's like me working from home today. I have 4-5 meetings scheduled, which are live, but then I get the rest of my work done on my own schedule.

My kid's HS is going full in person or full online for the first quarter. We opted for full online not because of safety or fear but because we think it is going to be a clusterf--- and they will end up all online at some point. She will be going in person starting second qtr.
And courses are the same as you said. She has a regular school schedule and will see the teacher and students in the classroom at the same time the class is being taught. All students already have laptops and submit assignments electronically while in school so that isn't any sort of change.

 

[Chin Diesel]

My kids will both be freshman. The school system is going hybrid with a combination of synchronous and asynchronous learning. They alternate an A day and B day. If it's your day, you learn in person (probably 42% attendance due to opt-outs). If it's not your day, you have a combination of synchronous (video of live class) and/or asynchronous (assignments and tests). Yes, the tests are supposed to be done on non-in-person days. The principal felt that in-person time is precious and shouldn't be wasted with a test. Will there be rampant cheating? Probably, but they can control that if they try.

You can opt-out and attend your A or B assigned day by video. If you opt-out, you can't opt back in until the next marking period. If you opt-in, you can opt-out at any time. So I think people are generally opting in for Day 1.

Both kids have started soccer practices. Right now it's all conditioning, so they are somewhat social distanced. They start drills tomorrow and practice through next week, then stop until September.

Good luck everyone!!

Best way to avoid cheating is make them open book / open note tests. Which many people, myself included, have learned, can be the hardest tests. Make it open book and everything in that book is fair game.

 

[upstater]

The term I learned from my sister's and her son's schooling is synchronous and asynchronous online learning. Synchronous learning means the kids are online at the same time the course is being taught. Asynchronous meaning the teacher creates the content and the kids access it when they choose to access it.

My grad work with online was all asynchronous and it works well for adults who need to balance work and life with school. I believe this method works better for older students.

For kids who are grade school and maybe even through middle school I think synchronous teaching is better. Part of what kids are learning while in school is how to deal with and learn within time constraints.

Even with in-person schooling not all kids have their brain schedule lined up with the school schedule. Not all kids are early risers and are ready to process information at 8:00am.

One thing I am a huge advocate of with the online learning is keeping the content available for a week or two at a time for students to be able to retrieve and review the content as needed.

Despite the long experience with asynchronous online classes, most universities are requiring 100% synchronous classes now.

 

[FatHank]

And in other news...

 

[upstater]

Syracuse University Today

Syracuse University Today is the official news source and the authoritative digital platform for the University.

news.syr.edu

This from a Cuse administrator is one of the most pathetic things you'll find in print from a college adminstrator.

 

[M.S.G.]

I can't get over the abject selfishness and gross amount of greed these college administrators have exhibited opening up campuses when you KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN - just to be able to cash that on-campus tuition check.

Makes me sick.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I can't get over the abject selfishness and gross amount of greed these college administrators have exhibited opening up campuses when you KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN - just to be able to cash that on-campus tuition check.

Makes me sick.

I am amazed at your amazement over the decision making by people whose jobs and career fields are hanging in the balance based on their decisions.

Mostly the poor behavioral choices of the college students are a reflection of poor parenting. Better development of children by parents and the college kids would behave better as young adults.

It's also pretty much societies fault for creating an economic structure where the primary path to a successful life is through a college education. Many of these kids would much rather be at home staying on the financial and social teets of mom and pops rather than living by themselves or with one or two friends in groups of hundreds of like-aged and like-minded young adults.