OT: College in the COVID era

[HooperScooper]

And BU isn't even "elite".

Well I wouldn't quite call it elite either but it's a very good school that is well respected. Check out the new Barron's book. It got upgraded to Most Competitive (highest rating).

 

[HooperScooper]

This was my point

Yeah, but most very good to elite private schools are in that range. It's in Boston so I'm sure the cost is a little higher than most schools. NYU is a pretty similar school but because it's in NYC it's one of the most expensive schools in the country.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

Yeah, but most very good to elite private schools are in that range. It's in Boston so I'm sure the cost is a little higher than most schools. NYU is a pretty similar school but because it's in NYC it's one of the most expensive schools in the country.

Right, don't get me wrong, I get BC and Elite schools being that price, I wouldn't consider BU elite.

 

[NJHusky]

Yeah, but most very good to elite private schools are in that range. It's in Boston so I'm sure the cost is a little higher than most schools. NYU is a pretty similar school but because it's in NYC it's one of the most expensive schools in the country.

Do you put BU on the same level as NYU? I'm not in education, but when hiring people I have much higher opinion of NYU than BU

 

[Improviser]

Right, don't get me wrong, I get BC and Elite schools being that price, I wouldn't consider BU elite.

No that it makes it elite, but I checked a site that listed famous people who went to BU.

50 famous people you didn't know went to Boston University

Boston University's most famous graduates.

www.masslive.com

Howard Stern, Faye Dunaway, Jason Alexander

Right, don't get me wrong, I get BC and Elite schools being that price, I wouldn't consider BU elite.

50 famous people you didn't know went to Boston University

Boston University's most famous graduates.

www.masslive.com

Not that it makes it elite, but it does give the school some publicity and a talking point for one of its alumni who happens to run into a BY'er who disparages the school, not knowing who he was making his remarks to.

On the other hand, maybe the ordinary BU graduate does not know of the celebrities who preceded him or her, or that BU graduate thinks he or she is the first celebrity who ever attended the school.

Anyone ever express their views to a BU graduate? if so, how did they respond?

My sister graduated from BU. I am not about to bring up the subject with her. I can tell you it cost the family a lot less sending me to UConn, than it did sending her to BU! And that was years ago!

 

[Improviser]

Do you put BU on the same level as NYU? I'm not in education, but when hiring people I have much higher opinion of NYU than BU

NYU has a top ranked Law School.

 

[HuskyHawk]

NYU has a top ranked Law School.

For tax especially. I was shocked to see it as top ten overall. That’s new. But for tax it was long #1. BU has a good law school too #20 on USNWR. As between BC and BU, BU is stronger across the sciences and as a research university.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Does anybody have a sense on whether schools mailing stuff to your kid means anything at all? What I’m asking is, do they already have a profile that means that your kid may be in their range or is it more random? Possibly just based on their HS? Or do they have a sense of GPA and rank? I’m curious about what data they use to target students.

 

[the Q]

We visited BU last fall. I'm not a fan, hate the non-campus urban setting. She liked it more than me.

A good friend of mine, now and from my UConn days, die hard UConn hoops fan who often took his eldest son to Gampel, has his son attending Syracuse as a freshman this year. That is taking the bullet right in the forehead. My kid isn't interested in sports and BC is a good school.

I hated that about BU too.

That’s one reason why I went to Northeastern.

Just wish I was good enough to have played ball there.

 

[the Q]

Please, no politics. It’s not about that. Let’s keep this out of the cesspool please.

My daughter is a “rising senior” in HS (I dislike the phrase). So far SATs have repeatedly been cancelled. She has one scheduled for September. Almost no schools are allowing visits. Most colleges have gone SAT/ACT optional, but what will that mean for those with or without test scores? A COVID essay has been added to the standard application. Meanwhile, some significant percentage (I heard 20% at Harvard) of recent graduates are deferring admission. What does that mean for the class of 2021? Fewer available slots? Massive class sizes?

it feels chaotic to me. For those of you with kids in college, or perhaps about to attend or with a HS Jr. or Sr. what are you doing? How are you approaching it? I have a webinar with the college board Wednesday night on applying to college in the COVID era. Not sure what to expect, they would be somewhat biased towards SATs obviously. I suppose we should be glad we took a few visits in the fall of 2019. But it doesn’t feel adequate. I’m not sure when we will get the needed remaining visits in, virtual isn’t helpful.

Then there are finances. The schools need money, so how will that impact things like merit aid? Or perhaps admitting kids below the median because they can pay. On the flip side, with so many out of work, will that shift more kids to lower cost options like CCSU?

I felt like I had a decent handle on this before COVID. Now? Not sure what to do next.

Deferrals are going to make her class more competitive than ever.

Have you guys thought about that?

Or maybe killing it at a community college for one year could give your kid a better shot at her schools (obviously talking in general to not ask personal questions about credentials)

 

[NJHusky]

For tax especially. I was shocked to see it as top ten overall. That’s new. But for tax it was long #1. BU has a good law school too #20 on USNWR. As between BC and BU, BU is stronger across the sciences and as a research university.

I'm SHOCKED that the BU law school is ranked that high...I've never seen it listed there before or in other sources. I always viewed NYU as a top 20 law school and #2 in NYC. Not sure hiring partners would view BU that high either....but that's just my opinion

 

[Chin Diesel]

Does anybody have a sense on whether schools mailing stuff to your kid means anything at all? What I’m asking is, do they already have a profile that means that your kid may be in their range or is it more random? Possibly just based on their HS? Or do they have a sense of GPA and rank? I’m curious about what data they use to target students.

We definitely got some stuff that was pure random. You sign up for SAT for SAT you are going to get it good.

 

[auror]

Urban schools in desirable cities (like BU, Northeastern, etc.) have risen the most in selectiveness and correspondingly price over the past 15 years.

The Boston, New York, and Cali city schools in particular (as well as the Ivies obviously) get a lot of wealthy intentional students who pay full boat. Good US students who get in these places from middle class families tend to get a bunch of merit aid.

 

[UConnRock]

Daughter is a senior in high school, straight A grades and on path to valedictorian. The lack of ability to visit colleges is adding more stress everyday life. She understands, but as she starts applications there is a sense of emptiness to the process. Wake Forest is the only school of interest that is starting visits. She is a southern girl and has no desire to go up north to school. We will be patient and see what happens.

My son is a sophomore at Northeastern. He decided to stay home and maybe take a couple of classes on line if allowed. He has no interest in a full course load on-line. Northeastern is allowing students back on campus, but all the restrictions and online classes is not worth the room and board costs.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm SHOCKED that the BU law school is ranked that high...I've never seen it listed there before or in other sources. I always viewed NYU as a top 20 law school and #2 in NYC. Not sure hiring partners would view BU that high either....but that's just my opinion

BU has always been strong as a law school. When I applied it was probably as good as NYU overall. It also was, I believe, the largest law school by enrollment. Harvard was also huge.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Deferrals are going to make her class more competitive than ever.

Have you guys thought about that?

Or maybe killing it at a community college for one year could give your kid a better shot at her schools (obviously talking in general to not ask personal questions about credentials)

Have thought about it. Don’t yet know what it means, nobody does really. She has a very strong weighted GPA with a couple of AP classes this year. She’s at a well regarded Catholic HS. Not interested in community college, she needs to be away from home. I suspect she’d be in very good shape if she was willing to leave the northeast, but she doesn’t seem to want to.

We are visiting UNH next Monday. Should be a reliable safety school for her. @upstater suggested that for reach schools I could not send in the FAFSA. Might make a difference given the financial challenges some schools face.

 

[HooperScooper]

Does anybody have a sense on whether schools mailing stuff to your kid means anything at all? What I’m asking is, do they already have a profile that means that your kid may be in their range or is it more random? Possibly just based on their HS? Or do they have a sense of GPA and rank? I’m curious about what data they use to target students.

Totally random. Means nothing. My son got stuff from hundreds of schools. From non-competitive schools that we've never heard of to schools like Columbia, Harvard and Princeton that he had no chance of getting accepted to. We saved the stuff for a while and then threw it all out. And the e-mails too, thousands of them, were nuts. I wish he never checked the box on the SAT sign up that schools could e-mail him.

I also know that schools that you put you are interested in on Naviance mail and e-mail you stuff. We had never received anything from Richmond until he put it on his interested list on Naviance and then we suddenly got mail every week from them.

In the end those e-mails and mail are pretty useless. Every school has websites and there's tons of information on the internet if you want to do your own research. Back when we were kids the brochures and mail were the only way to research a school without visiting.

 

[HooperScooper]

Right, don't get me wrong, I get BC and Elite schools being that price, I wouldn't consider BU elite.

Not that U.S. News and World Report is the be all end all of a school's competitiveness and reputation, but BC is #37 and BU is #40 in the national universities ranking.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

Here's another national universities ranking that has BU #30 and BC #82.

Top Universities in the US 2026 - US College Rankings

Discover the best colleges in the US according to the Times Higher Education’s trusted World University Rankings. This list highlights the which universities in the US excel in teaching, research, and global influence. The Times Higher Education US college rankings are based on a trusted...

www.timeshighereducation.com

Here's another one that includes all colleges and universities that has BC at #48 and BU at #60.

2025 Best Colleges in America

Explore the Top 100 colleges in America based on statistics and student reviews.

www.niche.com

Point being, their competitiveness and reputation aren't that different.

 

[upstater]

Have thought about it. Don’t yet know what it means, nobody does really. She has a very strong weighted GPA with a couple of AP classes this year. She’s at a well regarded Catholic HS. Not interested in community college, she needs to be away from home. I suspect she’d be in very good shape if she was willing to leave the northeast, but she doesn’t seem to want to.

We are visiting UNH next Monday. Should be a reliable safety school for her. @upstater suggested that for reach schools I could not send in the FAFSA. Might make a difference given the financial challenges some schools face.

Definitely defer for a year if she doesn't want to experience this, but I suspect this year's classes are going to have the easiest admission process in over 2 decades of stiff competition.

The economics out there are really really bad for parents of students entering Higher Ed.

 

[HooperScooper]

Definitely defer for a year if she doesn't want to experience this, but I suspect this year's classes are going to have the easiest admission process in over 2 decades of stiff competition.

The economics out there are really really bad for parents of students entering Higher Ed.

Won't all this probably be over in a year when she would be entering college? It better be over in a year! This virus blows.

 

[upstater]

Won't all this probably be over in a year when she would be entering college? It better be over in a year! This virus blows.

Depends on the vaccine, I suppose.

But who knows what will be left of the schools.

No one knows how many will just cut departments or move things permanently online.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Definitely defer for a year if she doesn't want to experience this, but I suspect this year's classes are going to have the easiest admission process in over 2 decades of stiff competition.

The economics out there are really really bad for parents of students entering Higher Ed.

One of my major guiding principles in life is cash is king. And those with cash on hand going in to a crisis end up stronger coming out of crisis than vis a vis their strength going in to a crisis. Those families who have the ability to pay retail or close to retail price for a university are going to have access to schools they normally wouldn't have just because they can help sustain the bottom line.

 

[CL82]

We visited BU last fall. I'm not a fan, hate the non-campus urban setting. She liked it more than me.

A good friend of mine, now and from my UConn days, die hard UConn hoops fan who often took his eldest son to Gampel, has his son attending Syracuse as a freshman this year. That is taking the bullet right in the forehead. My kid isn't interested in sports and BC is a good school.

But, it’s just... wrong.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Definitely defer for a year if she doesn't want to experience this, but I suspect this year's classes are going to have the easiest admission process in over 2 decades of stiff competition.

The economics out there are really really bad for parents of students entering Higher Ed.

Yeah, but we are next year’s classes, which may be the most competitive ever. It’s a crappy position to be in, So much is uncertain. As @Chin Diesel noted, ability to pay may help. But ability to pay and desire to pay are two different things. I don’t have much desire to pay full boat private school tuition. If I do it will need to tick boxes 1, 2 and 3 below strongly.

I look at college as providing three things 1. Education, 2. A credential and 3. A safe introduction to adult life and independence. The ratio would vary in terms of what each kid is really getting, with any of the three possibly being the most important thing. My current view of online college is that it puts the weight very heavily on the Credential. My sense of my daughter is that she needs all three.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

Not that U.S. News and World Report is the be all end all of a school's competitiveness and reputation, but BC is #37 and BU is #40 in the national universities ranking.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

Here's another national universities ranking that has BU #30 and BC #82.

Top Universities in the US 2026 - US College Rankings

Discover the best colleges in the US according to the Times Higher Education’s trusted World University Rankings. This list highlights the which universities in the US excel in teaching, research, and global influence. The Times Higher Education US college rankings are based on a trusted...

www.timeshighereducation.com

Here's another one that includes all colleges and universities that has BC at #48 and BU at #60.

2025 Best Colleges in America

Explore the Top 100 colleges in America based on statistics and student reviews.

www.niche.com

Point being, their competitiveness and reputation aren't that different.

Must be more thinking of when i went to school 15 years ago, BU was more on UConn's level if not around it

 

[Chin Diesel]

Yeah, but we are next year’s classes, which may be the most competitive ever. It’s a crappy position to be in, So much is uncertain. As @Chin Diesel noted, ability to pay may help. But ability to pay and desire to pay are two different things. I don’t have much desire to pay full boat private school tuition. If I do it will need to tick boxes 1, 2 and 3 below strongly.

I look at college as providing three things 1. Education, 2. A credential and 3. A safe introduction to adult life and independence. The ratio would vary in terms of what each kid is really getting, with any of the three possibly being the most important thing. My current view of online college is that it puts the weight very heavily on the Credential. My sense of my daughter is that she needs all three.

Going forward #2 is way more important than #1 in many career fields IMO. I don't have numbers in front of me but close to 50% of grads end up in careers different than their college degree. Getting a degree is still best step towards starting a career but getting certifications/credentials for evolving career fields is crucial for advancement and promotion.
#3, as you said, varies greatly on the child. Big school v. small school, city v. rural and a bunch of other areas where kids want to grow and more importantly, need to grow.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Must be more thinking of when i went to school 15 years ago, BU was more on UConn's level if not around it

From 2008 to 2015 it went up 15 spots. Not as much as Northeastern, which was the biggest climber. When I applied to UConn in 1984, Northeastern was a regional school known mostly for its co-op program. Both continued to go up through 2019.

I think all of these trends show how schools game these rankings (and how little these rankings should matter). Many public schools have restrictions on who they admit that don't let them game the rankings as effectively. US News rankings are pretty much garbage, but unfortunately people place value on them.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

From 2008 to 2015 it went up 15 spots. Not as much as Northeastern, which was the biggest climber. When I applied to UConn in 1984, Northeastern was a regional school known mostly for its co-op program. Both continued to go up through 2019.

I think all of these trends show how schools game these rankings (and how little these rankings should matter). Many public schools have restrictions on who they admit that don't let them game the rankings as effectively. US News rankings are pretty much garbage, but unfortunately people place value on them.

I went to UConn 04-08 so that's probably why

 

[upstater]

Yeah, but we are next year’s classes, which may be the most competitive ever. It’s a crappy position to be in, So much is uncertain. As @Chin Diesel noted, ability to pay may help. But ability to pay and desire to pay are two different things. I don’t have much desire to pay full boat private school tuition. If I do it will need to tick boxes 1, 2 and 3 below strongly.

I look at college as providing three things 1. Education, 2. A credential and 3. A safe introduction to adult life and independence. The ratio would vary in terms of what each kid is really getting, with any of the three possibly being the most important thing. My current view of online college is that it puts the weight very heavily on the Credential. My sense of my daughter is that she needs all three.

I have 2 middle school/high school kids myself, and though I have a good idea of what each school would be offering my kid, I sympathize with you.

Know that we're entering a demographic dip that's been prepared for long before Covid (fewer kids will be applying to college in the next 5-8 years than we've seen since the 1990s. This was true BEFORE Covid.

In many ways, we'll have it easier than those to come after us.

My concern is that parents like you are not going to have any information to be able to judge colleges since the economic devastation will not be transparent. You're not going to know which departments have been gutted. Which schools have very very low morale among faculty and students.

Pay attention to endowments, if you choose a private school. For public schools, look up the DOE numbers to see which schools are top heavy with administrators, and compare that to how much they spend per student. The same research would actually apply to private schools as well.

Inside the academic community, there have always been some schools with stellar reputations that the outside world doesn't know much about. I gave one such example earlier: Hampshire. Hamilton would be another. There are schools like these that are known for catering to the educational growth of students much more than other schools.

I'm in the same boat as you at the end of the day, though I'm much less concerned about competition for spots. Schools will be struggling to find students over the next decade.

 

[upstater]

Going forward #2 is way more important than #1 in many career fields IMO. I don't have numbers in front of me but close to 50% of grads end up in careers different than their college degree. Getting a degree is still best step towards starting a career but getting certifications/credentials for evolving career fields is crucial for advancement and promotion.
#3, as you said, varies greatly on the child. Big school v. small school, city v. rural and a bunch of other areas where kids want to grow and more importantly, need to grow.

Wouldn't this mean that #1 is much more important?

In other words, if most end up in careers other than those which they expected/started in, their abilities and their education will be what is most essential. By #2, credential, I think he meant the degree from a certain university.