College basketball's All-time Starting Five: Connecticut Huskies

[tzznandrew]

I would disagree on that for sure but that's just an opinion. Maybe it was college basketball in general at that point that wasn't that good but the mid 90's was easily as good as the 2006-13 if not better from my memory. We can't forget Pitt either for the BE, always solid - not so sure the Hall was too good. BC was in the BE then and good? See I don't recall any dominating teams and actually we beat a so-so Cincy team in the tourney that would't match up vs the 90's BE teams from what I recall.

All good though respect good conversation piece.

In the sense that all teams in college basketball were better in the mid-90s, I'd agree.

I guess I'm looking at how good the BE was relative to the nation. Mid-90s BE was below the ACC, and arguably the Big Ten as well.

They went from 89 to 96 without a Final Four participant, and from 86 to 99 without a title winner.

Compare that to the 2006-2013 heyday, when they had Final Four teams in 2007 (Georgetown), 2009 (UConn, Villanova), 2010 (West Virginia), 2011 (UConn), 2012 (Louisville), and 2013 (Syracuse and Louisville). They had two titles in that window, too.

 

[JimHurley]

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. maybe just young and didn't have the opportunity to see Donyell play. Love Shabazz but no way he is comparable to Donyell as a player at UCONN.

Not being sarcastic. Donyell played before I was born. Shabazz just had that killer instinct. You could give him the ball and he'd win you the game.

@JimOllie I respect your love for Shabazz because I love him too for what he did for us and how clutch he is. I am, however, going to respectfully disagree with taking him over Donyell. I'm guessing you are too young or just don't remember him as a player. He was absolutely dominant during parts of his UConn career. Bazz is great and I'm a big fan, but Donyell was a better player by far.

Yep, Donyell graduated 6 months before I was born so I'm a little biased with Shabazz.

I hope you're kidding. Love Shabazz but 'Yell had the most dominant year in Huskies history. And he also did it when the Big East was the best conference in America bar none.

25/10/3 is WOW stuff back then. This 5 makes the most sense.

Not kidding. Shabazz had that thing about him where he could control a game by himself. No way I'd ever leave him off my UConn all-time starting five.

 

[CL82]

If they could have played together: Ray Allen and Kemba Walker, Donyell Marshall, Omeka Okafor and Andre Drummond. Who's getting an offensive rebound, any rebound away from that group? 3 three point threats, two monsters in and around the paint. Geno's crews move over. Nobody would intimidate more than that group would.

Yeah Omeka was pretty dominant. Whatever happened to him?

 

[CL82]

I think you have to think about Bazz as a starter, but in the end it's Kemba.

So if you go with Yahoo 5, who's coming off the bench:
Bazz, Caron, Gordon, Uncle Cliffy are the easy choices but do you go with a 3 guard line up and bring in one of Smith, Moore (for defense because the rest of this line up can score), KEA, Bialosuknia, or Henefeld or maybe another forward like Burrell (freakish athlete who had a ton of steals), Boone (who was great in the PF spot), or Kimball or Corley (who besides being great players would distract the opponents because of their short shorts) or even Adrien for toughness.

I think I'd go with Henefeld. Quick hands, great D, a scorer who could also distribute.

 

[champs99and04]

Still, Ray and 'Yell were much more talented in a much more talented era.

I don't think there is any doubt about that, and I'm not even necessarily arguing one way or another. But as @tzznandrew says, players in general were much better back then. Do we compare them in a vacuum or do we compare them relative to their competition? Because, relative to the competition, there is an argument to be made that Shabazz was the best player in the country that year (or, at the very least, he played like it in the tournament). I'm also not convinced that his statistical output quite does him justice - he played on a defensive-centric team (and was a huge part of that defense) and was often relied on to single-handedly keep the ship above water offensively by hitting difficult shots late in the clock.

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't think there is any doubt about that, and I'm not even necessarily arguing one way or another. But as @tzznandrew says, players in general were much better back then. Do we compare them in a vacuum or do we compare them relative to their competition? Because, relative to the competition, there is an argument to be made that Shabazz was the best player in the country that year (or, at the very least, he played like it in the tournament). I'm also not convinced that his statistical output quite does him justice - he played on a defensive-centric team (and was a huge part of that defense) and was often relied on to single-handedly keep the ship above water offensively by hitting difficult shots late in the clock.

Yeah, I don't put him on my team, but I do think context matters and probably shouldn't be used against him.

 

[Palatine]

I would still put Toby Kimball at power forward.

He led the nation in rebounding his senior year with 21 a game. He also average 19 points that senior year. Just unbelievable on the boards.

 

[DALTX]

Shabazz over Donyell

Given the graphics in video, it seems Yahoo's opinion is based partly on NBA career. And they're at different positions. I can't argue with Yahoo's list.

But for a Husky fan, it's hard to forget the following:

Shabazz in 2014 NCAA tournament: 31-33 FT; graduates with two rings
Donyell in 1994 NCAA tournament: 13-18 FT; tie game, 3.4 seconds until a Final Four berth, misses two free throws; leaves early for the League

 

[MilliniumPrince]

If tourney success is a major factor in making this list, out starting 5 has to start with Bazz. He has two rings and played pivotal roles in both. Any list of this nature without him is automatically disqualified.

The question then is do you make Rip, Madison Square Gordon, or Kemba the other guard. Hell, i guess KEA would have to be in the mix too.

 

[mauconnfan]

Not being sarcastic. Donyell played before I was born. Shabazz just had that killer instinct. You could give him the ball and he'd win you the game.



Yep, Donyell graduated 6 months before I was born so I'm a little biased with Shabazz.



Not kidding. Shabazz had that thing about him where he could control a game by himself. No way I'd ever leave him off my UConn all-time starting five.

It's difficult to leave him off, the big shots and swagger, but he wasn't as good as any of those 5. I mean that's nothing to be upset about guys like Caron, Ben, Rudy, KEA aren't on there. Hat to say it but it would be a toss up for me on KEA, Smitty and Bazz after those 5. Lots of really good players.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Some of you pups are too young to remember: Wes B.
How he's not in the Top-10 is a mystery. He was awesome.

And Wilt surely would have averaged a 50-25 in today's NBA. It's okay to accept the fact that the game has evolved.

As far as starting 5, the Yahoo article got it right. Nothing wrong with Shabazz reprising his 2011 6th man role, it worked out fine for us then.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

If tourney success is a major factor in making this list, out starting 5 has to start with Bazz. He has two rings and played pivotal roles in both. Any list of this nature without him is automatically disqualified.

The question then is do you make Rip, Madison Square Gordon, or Kemba the other guard. Hell, i guess KEA would have to be in the mix too.

Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan each have 5 rings, Larry Bird has 3. Would you say either of them are better than Bird? Sometimes you have to look at the players talent level and what they could do, and acknowledge that one guy played in an era where talent across the board was much more deep and consolidated than when the other guy played.

 

[boog204]

To be fair to Ray, the year before he had an amazing game against UCLA in an E8 loss, so I cut him some slack on that MSU game.

Absolutely true... Maybe should've said Ray and Donyell both ended their careers with a choke job of sorts.

 

[Dogbreath2U]

Absolutely true... Maybe should've said Ray and Donyell both ended their careers with a choke job of sorts.

While Ray may have been our purest, most talented player, I do see Shabazz' UConn career as being better than his because of his remarkably clutch play at the highest levels. Just comes down to how you define "greatest."

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Absolutely true... Maybe should've said Ray and Donyell both ended their careers with a choke job of sorts.

Ray Scored 36 points pretty much keeping us close singlehandedly against the number one seed in the West Region and eventual NC
The game was also pretty much a home game for them.
It was one of our greatest single NCAA performances especially in a losing effort.
2011 was Kemba's NC, Bazz was a good player but wasn't even the best freshman on the team.
Bazz played on a pretty talented and experienced team his senior year.
Who picked it up against Nova when he was in foul trouble. We lose that game and his legacy is quite different.
Ask Bazz if thinks he is anywhere near as talented a player as Ray ,he would laugh at you.
Comparing college BB today to the 90's. Is also ridicules. The top talent stays one year
The pro game has hurt the college game dramically.
Now I still have nightmares about Donell's free throw misses.But he pretty much carried that team.

 

[LStudfellow]

Both Kemba and Emeka should of won POY in all of college hoops

As a white guy I can admit it honestly - Jimmer Fredette won POY that year because he is white and Kemba is black. Period, end of story.

Jimmer did not play defense then, and does not play it now (go ask the Knicks, who just cut him after a 10-day contract). Only white guys can get away with playing one-dimensional and still get player of the year in college. Even his BYU coach had to game plan for protecting Jimmer's non-existent defense. That is a fact.

ESPN in particular pushed the narrative of Jimmer despite the fact he was a one-dimensional player. Frankly, it was sickening to listen to it as it unfolded. Go back and pull up old tape - so many of the commentators would not even talk about the defense (or they would dismiss it), because they knew it would blow their arguments for Jimmer right out of the water. Last time I checked, the best player in the sport needs to be the best play in EVERY aspect... not just one.

Kemba was not only better - but it was not even that close. And that was before we watched Kemba pull off the most amazing 10-game stretch under the crucible of one-and-done games we have ever witnessed (and yes, I realize that the voting did not include those 10 games... but it did include so many others, including the 3 in Hawaii, the game in Texas and others. Jimmer could not have touched that level of play in his wet dreams). He did have a down stretch toward the end of the regular season, for sure. But he had more responsibility than any other player in the sport that year, so that should have been a more substantive narrative than the lack of defense by Jimmer.

The satisfying part - for all of us... is that Kemba was on our team, and he won every other meaningful award that he could have that year... and even the Squid had to admit that he underestimated the greatness that Kemba had become.

 

[champs99and04]

As a white guy I can admit it honestly - Jimmer Fredette won POY that year because he is white and Kemba is black. Period, end of story.

Jimmer did not play defense then, and does not play it now (go ask the Knicks, who just cut him after a 10-day contract). Only white guys can get away with playing one-dimensional and still get player of the year in college. Even his BYU coach had to game plan for protecting Jimmer's non-existent defense. That is a fact.

ESPN in particular pushed the narrative of Jimmer despite the fact he was a one-dimensional player. Frankly, it was sickening to listen to it as it unfolded. Go back and pull up old tape - so many of the commentators would not even talk about the defense (or they would dismiss it), because they knew it would blow their arguments for Jimmer right out of the water. Last time I checked, the best player in the sport needs to be the best play in EVERY aspect... not just one.

Kemba was not only better - but it was not even that close. And that was before we watched Kemba pull off the most amazing 10-game stretch under the crucible of one-and-done games we have ever witnessed (and yes, I realize that the voting did not include those 10 games... but it did include so many others, including the 3 in Hawaii, the game in Texas and others. Jimmer could not have touched that level of play in his wet dreams). He did have a down stretch toward the end of the regular season, for sure. But he had more responsibility than any other player in the sport that year, so that should have been a more substantive narrative than the lack of defense by Jimmer.

The satisfying part - for all of us... is that Kemba was on our team, and he won every other meaningful award that he could have that year... and even the Squid had to admit that he underestimated the greatness that Kemba had become.

A lot of revisionist history here. Kemba was the better player, but at the time, it would have been tough to justify choosing him for NPOY over Jimmer. No, he wasn't a great defensive player, but he's hardly the first player to garner NPOY consideration without being particularly gifted at the other end, and not all of them have been white. And offensively, he was a one-man army...probably the best offensive player to suit up in college since Curry. BYU ranked 11th in adjusted offensive efficiency due in large part to him and had his teammate not gotten busted for 'breaking the honor code' they could have very well played us in the final.

 

[tzznandrew]

A lot of revisionist history here. Kemba was the better player, but at the time, it would have been tough to justify choosing him for NPOY over Jimmer. No, he wasn't a great defensive player, but he's hardly the first player to garner NPOY consideration without being particularly gifted at the other end, and not all of them have been white. And offensively, he was a one-man army...probably the best offensive player to suit up in college since Curry. BYU ranked 11th in adjusted offensive efficiency due in large part to him and had his teammate not gotten busted for 'breaking the honor code' they could have very well played us in the final.

Right, he had a great year and their season was derailed because their center had consensual sex with his girlfriend. What a joke.

 

[LStudfellow]

A lot of revisionist history here. Kemba was the better player, but at the time, it would have been tough to justify choosing him for NPOY over Jimmer. No, he wasn't a great defensive player, but he's hardly the first player to garner NPOY consideration without being particularly gifted at the other end, and not all of them have been white. And offensively, he was a one-man army...probably the best offensive player to suit up in college since Curry. BYU ranked 11th in adjusted offensive efficiency due in large part to him and had his teammate not gotten busted for 'breaking the honor code' they could have very well played us in the final.

Revisionist history - actually, it is exactly how I felt as I watched it unfolding. Just wasn't a member here yet to give my opinion on the subject. And again, go back and check out the facts. It is you offering up "revisionist history":

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/sports/ncaabasketball/24byu.html?_r=0

Here are a couple of excerpts from the article - written on March 24, 2011:

"But Fredette’s approach to defense is a cause for concern, N.B.A. personnel said, because he appears to put in little effort so he can stay out of foul trouble and conserve energy for offense."

Then of course his coach covers up for him in the next paragraph. Funny how no one ever had to say that about Kemba, despite the fact he carried us on offense, too.

Later in the article the personnel director went on to sum up what most in the pros thought of Jimmer's defense:
“I think he will translate fine as a pure shooter,” the personnel director said. He added: “He will need to go to a team that is either stacked with good defenders or a team that doesn’t emphasize defense. For as sharp a shooter as he is, he’s just as bad of a defender.”

Yep... that is me with the revisionist history. Obviously you know much more than a player personal director for one of the NBA teams. My bad.

 

[tzznandrew]

Revisionist history - actually, it is exactly how I felt as I watched it unfolding. Just wasn't a member here yet to give my opinion on the subject. And again, go back and check out the facts. It is you offering up "revisionist history":

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/sports/ncaabasketball/24byu.html?_r=0

Here are a couple of excerpts from the article - written on March 24, 2011:

"But Fredette’s approach to defense is a cause for concern, N.B.A. personnel said, because he appears to put in little effort so he can stay out of foul trouble and conserve energy for offense."

Then of course his coach covers up for him in the next paragraph. Funny how no one ever had to say that about Kemba, despite the fact he carried us on offense, too.

“I think he will translate fine as a pure shooter,” the personnel director said. He added: “He will need to go to a team that is either stacked with good defenders or a team that doesn’t emphasize defense. For as sharp a shooter as he is, he’s just as bad of a defender.”

Yep... that is me with the revisionist history.

But this isn't a discussion of who would be the better NBA player, and you're quoting NBA personnel rather than those voting. He averaged 28.1 ppg and 4.3 apg and the team had a better regular season than UConn's had.

I was upset that Kemba didn't win NPOY...but he didn't even win BEPOY, so we all knew Jimmer was winning the big one.

 

[LStudfellow]

But this isn't a discussion of who would be the better NBA player, and you're quoting NBA personnel rather than those voting. He averaged 28.1 ppg and 4.3 apg and the team had a better regular season than UConn's had.

I was upset that Kemba didn't win NPOY...but he didn't even win BEPOY, so we all knew Jimmer was winning the big one.

I am Quoting the NBA guy because
a) this was the prevailing thought at the time outside of college hoops reporters, not just my revisionist history;
and b) he was just saying what no one covering the college game at the time would.

But go back and watch a couple of their games from that year... he was a total liability on defense. I wonder what Kemba's numbers would have been if UConn was playing a zone and working to hide him and rest him on defense. Never would happen under Calhoun.

Sorry... you don't play defense, you do not deserve NPOY. And Jimmer did not deserve it, bloated offensive stats and all.

 

[Steveg19]

Crazy to think about. What if Kemba stayed for his senior year...