Coaching Hot Seat 2021

[Rooster C.]

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but to me it seems pretty clear you gotta show you can turn a program around and start winning fairly early on, or you're never going to.

Sometimes early success is misleading (winning with the recruits of the previous coach) and sometimes early "failure" is misleading (losing when the cupboard is left bare by the previous coach). When Nell Fortner took over at Auburn her first two years were mediocre (expected) followed by three seasons of 20+ winning seasons and improving tournament performance. The next three years were back to mediocrity. So is she a good coach or not? Or was it because her success coincided with the play of the great DeWanna Bonner? Agnus Berenato took over a terrible Pitt program in 2003. Losing seasons first two years followed by four 20+ win seasons (including two sweet 16 finishes) and then four years of worsening performance (winless in conference final two years). So does that make her a good coach or a bad coach? There are a lot of factors involved in turning around a program and with most P5 conferences having 5 or 6 talent-laden teams consistently at the top it is becoming increasingly difficult for a coach to turn around a program that quickly.

 

[nwhoopfan]

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Sometimes early success is misleading (winning with the recruits of the previous coach) and sometimes early "failure" is misleading (losing when the cupboard is left bare by the previous coach). When Nell Fortner took over at Auburn her first two years were mediocre (expected) followed by three seasons of 20+ winning seasons and improving tournament performance. The next three years were back to mediocrity. So is she a good coach or not? Or was it because her success coincided with the play of the great DeWanna Bonner? Agnus Berenato took over a terrible Pitt program in 2003. Losing seasons first two years followed by four 20+ win seasons (including two sweet 16 finishes) and then four years of worsening performance (winless in conference final two years). So does that make her a good coach or a bad coach? There are a lot of factors involved in turning around a program and with most P5 conferences having 5 or 6 talent-laden teams consistently at the top it is becoming increasingly difficult for a coach to turn around a program that quickly.

Yeah, there are a lot of factors, it can get complicated trying to say a coach is simply "good" or "bad." And it can change over time. Or change when the coach moves from one job to another. Probably too many examples to start listing them. Also coaches can have ups and downs, a lull for a year or two can happen.

 

[Rooster C.]

Coach Yo? She inherited a team with almost 0 players and the first year was rough. Now year 3 and they're out of the SEC basement. I think she's done quite well given that.

It may be too early to judge Coach Yo but her second season was worse than her first (9-22,3-13 /7-23,0-16) and so far this year is 9-9,3-9. Do you think they are going to win either of their remaining games at SC and at Ky ? She is a great recruiter no doubt (her freshman class was considered the best in the SEC) and adding transfer S.Austin has been a huge boost but they lost their last 6 games in 2019, the last 17 in 2020, and likely 4 of their last 6 this year. The end of the season is when you have to show some improvement. No top 100 recruits for 2021 and nothing so far for 2022....

 

[Rooster C.]

Yeah, there are a lot of factors, it can get complicated trying to say a coach is simply "good" or "bad." And it can change over time. Or change when the coach moves from one job to another. Probably too many examples to start listing them. Also coaches can have ups and downs, a lull for a year or two can happen.

Agreed, my friend. To reach true success (imo 20+ wins/season,double-digit conference wins, making the big dance most years,sometimes reaching the sweet 16) requires consistency in coaching and recruiting. A good coach can only do so much without top 100 talent. I think ASU has a good coach but this season they are 5-9 in conference (9th) ?! A new coach coming in to the Pac-12 , even with a solid freshmen recruiting class can't be expected to do better than 20-10, 9-9 by the time they're seniors in 4 years and that kind of freshman recruiting class is highly unlikely first year for a number of reasons. Even then, that class would need to be followed up with more good recruiting classes to have continued success. If a team finishes 7th or 8th in the conference year after year is that good enough? In order for one school to rise another must fall. Will it be Stanford? Oregon? Arizona? Oregon State? UCLA? Arizona State? Not likely. There are some conferences where a new coach might break through (Big Ten and especially the Big12)but for most getting above 7th or 8th place in conference would be a real coaching feat!

 

[HuskyMJ]

Auburn's season just ended at 5-19. 0 wins in the SEC; losses in the non conference to Houston, Stephen F. Austin and Belmont. Now they graduate their leading scorer and rebounder (Unique Thompson). Does Auburn's coach return for next year?

 

[DefenseBB]

Auburn's season just ended at 5-19. 0 wins in the SEC; losses in the non conference to Houston, Stephen F. Austin and Belmont. Now they graduate their leading scorer and rebounder (Unique Thompson). Does Auburn's coach return for next year?

Yes

 

[Dokey]

Colorado?

I can't believe Wynn has a 6 year contract. I don't expect they'll pull the trigger now, but if next year is more of the same, it has to be her last season. There's just no way to justify keeping a coach winning well under 20% of her conference games.

JR is safe at Colorado but she needs to improve recruiting. If the men van recruit top players, she should be able to as well. After all, Boulder is consistently ranked as the No.1 place to live.

 

[nwhoopfan]

JR is safe at Colorado

25-63 in conference in 5 years. Expectations must be pretty low for that to be considered acceptable.

 

[Rooster C.]

I very much doubt that we'll see any coaching terminations in WBB until after next season, assuming we're past this pandemic for the most part. At that point I think most on the lists mentioned above would not have their contracts renewed. Same for those expiring in 2023. Too early for the rest on the list but it's not looking good. As for Coach Yo she will finish only one win better in conference and overall than in her first year (barring an upset over Arkansas). She only loses one starter to graduation but it will be the last year with Shakira Austin and no top ranked recruits coming in so she better make the most of next season.....unless she pulls in some as yet unknown top player as a transfer.

 

[Rooster C.]

I am wondering about Sue Semrau at FSU. She was on an expired contract with no word of an extension. Then all the coaches had to take a pay cut due to loss of revenue over covid. Then she left for the season to take care of her ailing mother which is admirable but her assistant (Brooke Wyckoff) took over and has done a pretty good job including an upset win over Louisville. They have all but one player on the roster returning and two top 100 recruits coming in. Maybe she's considering retiring or maybe FSU will make the decision for her like Duke did with their coach by not offering an extension. What do you all think?

 

[LETTERL]

I am wondering about Sue Semrau at FSU. She was on an expired contract with no word of an extension. Then all the coaches had to take a pay cut due to loss of revenue over covid. Then she left for the season to take care of her ailing mother which is admirable but her assistant (Brooke Wyckoff) took over and has done a pretty good job including an upset win over Louisville. They have all but one player on the roster returning and two top 100 recruits coming in. Maybe she's considering retiring or maybe FSU will make the decision for her like Duke did with their coach by not offering an extension. What do you all think?

Nothing against Marynell Meadors...but Sue Semrau IS FSU; she has built that program into what it is today, which is light years ahead of what it was when she started. I suspect Semrau can do whatever she wants, and if that means continuing to coach FSU, so be it.

Maybe the FSU fans can chime in and let us know what the vibe is.

 

[dws3665]

Yes

Do you think this is because they are basically paying Malzahn to be the FB coach at UCF, or is there actual faith that Coach Flo can turn it around? If it's the latter, I worry about the Auburn athletics leadership.

 

[dws3665]

Coach Flo is gone.

Auburn announces women's basketball coaching change

AUBURN, Ala.—Auburn Director of Athletics Allen Greene announced Thursday a leadership change for the Auburn women's basketball program as Terri Williams-Flournoy will no longer lead the program.

auburntigers.com

 

[SECbbfan24]

I’m actually not surprised actually even with COVID

Seems like both parties handled it well and knew changes were needed. Classy by both ends.

"This year was full of unexpected challenges. Coach Flo, her staff and our student-athletes should be commended for their attitude and effort in the face of disruption and adversity," Greene said. "Our women's basketball program under Coach Flo's leadership consistently represented Auburn with class on and off the court, and we are grateful for her nine years of dedicated service to our student-athletes and the Auburn Family. We wish her the very best in her future endeavors."

"I am grateful for the opportunity to have served Auburn University and the women's basketball program for the past nine seasons," Williams-Flournoy said. "It was a great honor and privilege and an experience I will cherish. I will forever be appreciative of our staff and student-athletes during our tenure and the way each represented Auburn with class and dignity. As a change in leadership was determined, I would like to thank President Gogue and Allen Greene for their trust in my leadership over my time here. Auburn will always hold a special place in my heart."

 

[dws3665]

So, who does Auburn go after?

Goestenkors? McAllie? Langley? Agugua-Hamilton? Smesko? Aston? (I heard Aston is angling for Kansas...)

 

[Vowelguy]

So, who does Auburn go after?

Goestenkors? McAllie? Langley? Agugua-Hamilton? Smesko? Aston? (I heard Aston is angling for Kansas...)

McCallie is an interesting choice since she got her start as assistant at .... Auburn!
GG should wait for Purdue. She started there, she's from the upper midwest. Perfect fit. Deep South would be a disaster.
I think Smesko can do better. Or he can wait for the FL guy to flame out in a couple of years.

 

[Vowelguy]

I’m actually not surprised actually even with COVID

Me neither. She had 10 years, and they clearly are going in the wrong direction.
Funny enough, Vandy's decision to cancel the season may have saved White but killed Flo.

 

[Coler]

McCallie is an interesting choice since she got her start as assistant at .... Auburn!
GG should wait for Purdue. She started there, she's from the upper midwest. Perfect fit. Deep South would be a disaster.
I think Smesko can do better. Or he can wait for the FL guy to flame out in a couple of years.

I'd love to see GG land at Purdue!

 

[SECbbfan24]

Me neither. She had 10 years, and they clearly are going in the wrong direction.
Funny enough, Vandy's decision to cancel the season may have saved White but killed Flo.

Honestly you may be right. I have more respect for Flo as her team didn't quit, got better to end the year and played hard. They literally had no talent outside of two players on that roster but those kids gave it everything they had.

If LSU doesn't make the NCAAT, I would not be shocked them pull the plug either, especially if Pointer doesn't return. At that point, might as well rip the bandaid off.

 

[LETTERL]

Honestly you may be right. I have more respect for Flo as her team didn't quit, got better to end the year and played hard. They literally had no talent outside of two players on that roster but those kids gave it everything they had.

If LSU doesn't make the NCAAT, I would not be shocked them pull the plug either, especially if Pointer doesn't return. At that point, might as well rip the bandaid off.

Nikki was coaching her rear end off today. Her body language today screamed "Secbbfan24 on the BY wants to see offense! Secbbfan24 on the BY wants to see defense! Well, here they both are. We are going to be wedded together in WCBB bliss for many years yet to come!"

 

[SECbbfan24]

Nikki was coaching her rear end off today. Her body language today screamed "Secbbfan24 on the BY wants to see offense! Secbbfan24 on the BY wants to see defense! Well, here they both are. We are going to be wedded together in WCBB bliss for many years yet to come!"

Extension for beating the team that Missouri beat by over 20 on their home court on senior night? Brilliant

 

[huskeynut]

Yes

Nope. Coach Flo fired today.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

I note that in the ASGR 2021 class rankings Illinois was 30th, which may not sound
like much but was 4th in the Big 10. Hopefully, now that Fahey is getting some better
players she'll be able to get Illinois out of the Big 10 cellar.

 

[dws3665]

If Vandy keeps White, the rest of the conference will cheer. She has been terrible for them.

 

[DefenseBB]

I agree...except at Purdue. Sharon Versyp took a program with a National Championship, who was a perennial top-10 team and an upper echelon B1G team to below mediocrity. She should've been fired 5 years ago. It's sad that Purdue cares so little about women's hoops that they've let this go on this long.

Covid or not, she needs to be replaced. .

Wait, what? 6 times in their illustrious history have they been ranked in the top 10 and not once since 2007. So let's not overstate this as an "illustrious program", it was a good mid-western program that has the Big10's lone NCAAT way back in 1998-99. Let's not treat this like it's Tennessee. BTW, Kristy Curry (Yes, she of Alabama fame) led the way with 3 top 10 teams during her tenure and 7 NCAA appearances in all 7 of her years there.

Sharon took Kristy's team to the Elite 8 that 1st year in 2006-07, went back to the Elite 8 in 2008-09.
That said, it is time for Sharon to find a new gig as while she did make the NCAAT in 2016 and 2017, 2016 was clearly a charity gift as she was 20-12 and 6th in the Big10. Her trend has been down since topping out with #13 rank at some point during 2011-12 season. They haven't sniffed the top 25 ranking since 2013-14.

So all that said, this program hasn't been relevant since 2005-06 when it wouldn't pay Curry better money.

 

[DefenseBB]

Do you think this is because they are basically paying Malzahn to be the FB coach at UCF, or is there actual faith that Coach Flo can turn it around? If it's the latter, I worry about the Auburn athletics leadership.

I replied yes because as I noted in the Williams-Flournoy thread, her contract ran through 2023. Buying out the last year is usually logical but not two years. However upon hearing of the firing, I did some digging in my data trove to find she was only paid $425K (total comp) in 2019. Worst case is Auburn pays $850-900 for the last two years or I think there was a 50% buyout so it only costs $450ish.

 

[Vowelguy]

Wait, what? 6 times in their illustrious history have they been ranked in the top 10 and not once since 2007. So let's not overstate this as an "illustrious program", it was a good mid-western program that has the Big10's lone NCAAT way back in 1998-99. Let's not treat this like it's Tennessee. BTW, Kristy Curry (Yes, she of Alabama fame) led the way with 3 top 10 teams during her tenure and 7 NCAA appearances in all 7 of her years there.

Sharon took Kristy's team to the Elite 8 that 1st year in 2006-07, went back to the Elite 8 in 2008-09.
That said, it is time for Sharon to find a new gig as while she did make the NCAAT in 2016 and 2017, 2016 was clearly a charity gift as she was 20-12 and 6th in the Big10. Her trend has been down since topping out with #13 rank at some point during 2011-12 season. They haven't sniffed the top 25 ranking since 2013-14.

So all that said, this program hasn't been relevant since 2005-06 when it wouldn't pay Curry better money.

Purdue went to the final 4 with three different coaches — to me, that’s the sign of a strong program. But they’ve really sputtered in the past decade.
wonder if the rise of ND, Ky, Lou was part of the cause

 

[DefenseBB]

Purdue went to the final 4 with three different coaches — to me, that’s the sign of a strong program. But they’ve really sputtered in the past decade.
wonder if the rise of ND, Ky, Lou was part of the cause

So then by your logic with Purdue's last noted Top 10 regular ranking back in 2003-04, The Lady Techsters and Women of Troy must still be considered an elite programs.

The landscape has changed dramatically since Curry last made them relevant in 2004. I stand by my comments as this being a"mere good" program.

 

[Vowelguy]

So then by your logic with Purdue's last noted Top 10 regular ranking back in 2003-04, The Lady Techsters and Women of Troy must still be considered an elite programs.

The landscape has changed dramatically since Curry last made them relevant in 2004. I stand by my comments as this being a"mere good" program.

No sorry I was unclear. At the time I considered them an elite program. Maintaining excellence through multiple coaches is impressive.
But they have gone dry for far too long.

 

[Rooster C.]

Using Terri Williams-Flournoy as a baseline for possible termination (Net Ranking:112) these are the schools/coaches with this years worst Net Rankings among all P5 conferences:
NR#254 California Charmin Smith 2 years (13-35,4-27conf.) but extenuating circumstances. Signed 4 top-100 recruits 2020 none in 2021. Has time and the recruiting class to turn things around.
NR#224 Virginia Tina Thompson 2+ years (25-41,13-23conf.) covid-shortened season. No top-100 recruits for 2020 and 2021. Unless she is able to attract some talented transfers she could be in trouble a few years from now.
NR#177 Illinois Nancy Fahey 4 years (26-73,6-64conf.) Has yet to win more than 2 conference games in any season. No top-100 recruits for 2017,1 for 2018,none for 2019 and 2020,1 for 2021. Not getting the job done and the clock is ticking.
NR#158 Vanderbilt Stephanie White 4+ years (46-83,13-54conf.) covid-shortened season. Has not won more than 4 conference games in any season. Although she had 2 top-100 recruits in 2016,1 in 2017,2 in 2018,and 2 in 2019,she had none in 2020 and 1 in 2021. This year was a lost opportunity to show improvement. Has the recruits so next year probably a make-or-break season.
NR#157 Wisconsin Jonathan Tsipis 5 years (50-98,14-74conf.) Has never won more than 4 conference games in any season. Had 1 top-100 recruit in 2016,none in 2017,2018,or 2019,1 in 2020 and none in 2021. On borrowed time.
NR#134 Minnesota Lindsay Whalen 3 years (45-38,21-33conf.) Each year has had worsening overall record but this year was her best conference record at 7-11. Had 1 top-100 recruit in 2018 and 2019,2 in 2020 and 1 in 2021. Needs to show capable of at least a break-even record (overall as well as in conference) next season.
NR#125 Purdue Sharon Versyp 15 years (301-191,141-117conf.) Her best conference record over the last 4 years was 9-8 in 2017-18. Top-100 recruits: 2008(2),2009(2),2010(0),2011(1),2012(2),2013(1),2014(1),2015(4),2016(1),
2017(1),2018(1),2019(1),2020(2),and 2021(2). In spite of having a strong recruiting class in 2015 she has made the NCAAT only twice in the last 6 years. She can remain Purdue's coach as long as she wants but an improved conference (Maryland,Ohio State,Michigan,Indiana,Michigan State,Northwestern and Iowa, makes getting back to the NCAAT a real challenge.
NR#118 Pittsburgh Lance White 3 years (21-60,6-43conf.) Best year was this last year with 3 conference wins. No top-100 recruits in 2018,2019,or 2021 and 1 in 2020. Things don't look good for turning Pitt around any time soon.
NR#113 Utah Lynne Roberts 6 years (87-91,40-69conf.) Has had only one break-even year in conference (9-9) in 2018-19 and has been heading in the wrong direction last two years. No top-100 recruits in 2015 or 2016,1 in 2017,none in 2018,1 in 2019,2 in 2020,and 1 in 2021. Recent recruiting may help turn things around but with a tough conference of Oregon,Stanford,Oregon State,UCLA,Arizona,Arizona State,and improving Cal,USC,Colorado and Wash.State, doing any better than break-even will be difficult and reaching the NCAAT nearly impossible. I think she'll be around for awhile yet.