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But here.
Coaches road show bus gets pulled over by police and..
- Thread starter CL82
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Very well said! I would add that the men's game would be even better to watch if the teams played with the same level of discipline and as fundamentally sound as the UConn women's team. There actually is existence proof of this as there are a few examples in both the college level and the NBA. As for our team, if we won't be able to recruit one and dones from within our conference, we will need to move more in this direction.
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I've never bought the idea that people watch the UConn women's team because of how good they are. That's a completely arbitrary justification that doesn't hold up to further scrutiny. Quality is subjective and can be manipulated quite easily to fit any narrative you want. If ESPN televised boys high school games or D-3 men's action, would you watch? Probably not, because even if they were equivalent to the UConn women in terms of dominance, they still wouldn't wear the UConn jersey. The sentimental appeal wouldn't exist and people wouldn't care. Similarly, if the UConn field hockey team embarked on a similar streak, they wouldn't garner near the attention that the women's basketball team gets.
The reason I point these things out is to show how gender intersects with a host of other variables on the topic of college sports. That might seem obvious (thank you Einstein for telling us UConn fans would rather watch UConn than Trinity High), but it masks a central truth that the rest of the dialogue then pivots from: people feel obligated to watch the women's team because they've been deprived of every excuse not to. The crutch that exists for, say, Wisconsin football fans does not for UConn basketball fans because patriarchy is not built into the sport itself in the same way. They can say "I don't like basketball that much" just like the Duke fan can say "I don't like high school basketball" or the NBA fan can refuse to watch anything that's not the best. People find a way to circumvent the decisive variable - gender - when it comes to explaining their preferences in entertainment.
Except, rationalization is never necessary as a consumer, and so, yes, I do get annoyed when people in the media trip over themselves to acknowledge Geno's success because it feels so shamelessly manufactured, even after every pixel of novelty has dissolved. "Can you imagine not losing a conference home game since 1943, Seth?" "Seth, you there?"
Please don't accuse me of generalizing, because I'm well aware that there are plenty of people legitimately invested in women's basketball. All the power to them, and if they're passionate about growing the sport, they should continue to promote the players and coaches with the same vigor that ESPN grants LeBron. Ultimately, the reason does not matter. If you're rooting for the program because you love the school, or want to encourage your daughter to play, or just can't find anything else on TV, every contribution means a lot and supports a great cause.
Let's just stop insulting everyone's intelligence. People tend to care about things that other people care about. Certainly, there is something to be said for pioneering change and stepping out on an island every now and again, but don't allow the lazy social angle to obscure the nature of people (ironically, the popularity of men's sports are sustained by a bandwagon effect that is largely associated with femininity and group think). Some give and take is required.
The reason I point these things out is to show how gender intersects with a host of other variables on the topic of college sports. That might seem obvious (thank you Einstein for telling us UConn fans would rather watch UConn than Trinity High), but it masks a central truth that the rest of the dialogue then pivots from: people feel obligated to watch the women's team because they've been deprived of every excuse not to. The crutch that exists for, say, Wisconsin football fans does not for UConn basketball fans because patriarchy is not built into the sport itself in the same way. They can say "I don't like basketball that much" just like the Duke fan can say "I don't like high school basketball" or the NBA fan can refuse to watch anything that's not the best. People find a way to circumvent the decisive variable - gender - when it comes to explaining their preferences in entertainment.
Except, rationalization is never necessary as a consumer, and so, yes, I do get annoyed when people in the media trip over themselves to acknowledge Geno's success because it feels so shamelessly manufactured, even after every pixel of novelty has dissolved. "Can you imagine not losing a conference home game since 1943, Seth?" "Seth, you there?"
Please don't accuse me of generalizing, because I'm well aware that there are plenty of people legitimately invested in women's basketball. All the power to them, and if they're passionate about growing the sport, they should continue to promote the players and coaches with the same vigor that ESPN grants LeBron. Ultimately, the reason does not matter. If you're rooting for the program because you love the school, or want to encourage your daughter to play, or just can't find anything else on TV, every contribution means a lot and supports a great cause.
Let's just stop insulting everyone's intelligence. People tend to care about things that other people care about. Certainly, there is something to be said for pioneering change and stepping out on an island every now and again, but don't allow the lazy social angle to obscure the nature of people (ironically, the popularity of men's sports are sustained by a bandwagon effect that is largely associated with femininity and group think). Some give and take is required.
David 76
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What are you talking about?
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@David 76 I don't want to go down the "high school boy's team x is better than UConn" rabbit hole because I think it's generally shallow and insulting. However, when we talk about gender and sports, a couple things need to be considered:
1. The purported athletic advantages that men have over women are socially constructed and developed to fit a language that is written and maintained by men. To the extent that men are better at basketball is a function of the game being invented by a male, making it difficult to then separate the origins of the sport from gender.
2. Along those lines, Patriarchy - which promotes things like aggression, force, pain, and competition - is so ingrained in the vernacular of sport that women competing is almost counter-intuitive. The actual premise would have to be modified in order to create a model that achieves fair representation, not just with respect to women but also gay men. Assigning women to a completely separate domain only prepares them systematically for second class citizenship.
3. The fact that our constructed definition of basketball talent favors men over women may cause some to distort the persisting gender inequality in our country at large. I do not have that concern with someone like you, necessarily, or even most people, but when we misrepresent something with deeply sexist roots as being equal opportunity, we risk obscuring the true meaning of feminism.
None of this is reason to disinvest in women's sports. Quite the opposite. Women's sports can obtain equal if not greater popularity than men's sports. We've seen it happen in tennis, maybe occasionally in soccer or hockey (all sports that, non-coincidentally, tend to induce more national pride). It's entertainment like anything else. You sell the story well enough and people will consume the product. They care far less about quality than they'll have you believe. The UConn women's team is evidence of that - their appeal does not derive from their play so much as it does their dominance. They're the glitch in the system. Restore them to a more level playing field, without changing a thing about their skill level, and watch the intrigue fade. Even the attention they receive is a reflection of the deck being stacked against them.
1. The purported athletic advantages that men have over women are socially constructed and developed to fit a language that is written and maintained by men. To the extent that men are better at basketball is a function of the game being invented by a male, making it difficult to then separate the origins of the sport from gender.
2. Along those lines, Patriarchy - which promotes things like aggression, force, pain, and competition - is so ingrained in the vernacular of sport that women competing is almost counter-intuitive. The actual premise would have to be modified in order to create a model that achieves fair representation, not just with respect to women but also gay men. Assigning women to a completely separate domain only prepares them systematically for second class citizenship.
3. The fact that our constructed definition of basketball talent favors men over women may cause some to distort the persisting gender inequality in our country at large. I do not have that concern with someone like you, necessarily, or even most people, but when we misrepresent something with deeply sexist roots as being equal opportunity, we risk obscuring the true meaning of feminism.
None of this is reason to disinvest in women's sports. Quite the opposite. Women's sports can obtain equal if not greater popularity than men's sports. We've seen it happen in tennis, maybe occasionally in soccer or hockey (all sports that, non-coincidentally, tend to induce more national pride). It's entertainment like anything else. You sell the story well enough and people will consume the product. They care far less about quality than they'll have you believe. The UConn women's team is evidence of that - their appeal does not derive from their play so much as it does their dominance. They're the glitch in the system. Restore them to a more level playing field, without changing a thing about their skill level, and watch the intrigue fade. Even the attention they receive is a reflection of the deck being stacked against them.
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CL82
NCAA Men’s Basketball National Champions - Again!
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Possibly my quote of all time on the BY, knocking off my prior favorite Fishy's hanging sentence.
Stainmaster
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He’s perfectly lucid and merely saying things that reflect various degrees of outrageousness in order to stoke the fire and stir up more discussion. To me, that post read like pure satire, especially given that it’s somewhat divergent from stuff he’s posted on sociopolitical issues in the past.
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When was he ever sane?
Rico444
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When was he ever sane?
Everyone that posts here is at least a little crazy, but he's really kicked things up a notch lately.
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How so? I honestly thought you might agree with me.
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Yes, and there is a reason none of them - at least to my knowledge, in the big four leagues - identify as such. The premise of athletic competition is often contrary to the sort of things we associate with homosexuality.
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I agree with your second paragraph.
I like both teams. Generally I prefer this board over the woman’s board - except when this board talks about the women’s team.
Without getting into it too much, I’ll say this...I’m not sure how anyone can be a fan of basketball, and not enjoy the sheer level of talent of some of the women’s players have had over the years. Quite frankly, I have yet to find a player - on either program - that is more exciting than Taurasi..and struggle to understand how basketball fans can’t appreciate her..outside of gender.
Without getting into it too much, I’ll say this...I’m not sure how anyone can be a fan of basketball, and not enjoy the sheer level of talent of some of the women’s players have had over the years. Quite frankly, I have yet to find a player - on either program - that is more exciting than Taurasi..and struggle to understand how basketball fans can’t appreciate her..outside of gender.