Coach Warlick feels her team is very sensitive..

[pap49cba]

UcM mentioned "recruiting methodology". This struck a cord with me as IMHO Tennessee the past few years seems to have focused on recruiting the highest-ranked, 5 star recruits without regard to whether they 'fit' the system or the team's particular needs.

As we all know too well, Geno has backed off on any number of highly ranked kids for whatever reason.... ego, expectations, personality, parents, etc. It is apparent that if he gets a negative vibe, all bets are off. We, as fans, might disagree but he is the coach and he is the one that will be putting a team out on the floor.

The only recent case I was really surprised about was DD. She did not seem like a UConn team-first kind of personality. Perhaps Geno thought he could mold her ala DT. We'll never know.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

oh my rockymtblue2 ... I am sorry that I touched a nerve I take back my suggestion

No nerve...but your post is funny ha ha. Go over to VolNation and you can join a big circle of cool aid drinkers who feel a dab of Pat will set things right. You did not have to like Pat Summit to respect her and it was not fun to see her during in game huddles as a bemused spectator on the outside while assistants tried to coach the Lady Vols. Now she can get into the mix and solve a problem tat existed in the last 4 years of her tenure?

 

[jsloanjr]

Geno mentioned a recruit he passed on late in the process because she wanted to not give up her Social media account or cover her tattoos.....He did not mention any names.........UNC draws 3000 fans to a game...........UCLA draws 800, Duke outside of UCONN draw less than 4000...........MD might have on of the best and newest arena in the ACC and they draw 3500 to 5000 their games. I think the arena holds 20000......My point is that all WCBB teams need to a better job putting fans in the seats. Make the game a fun night for kids, families, Alums, students..........

 

[Icebear]

UcM mentioned "recruiting methodology". This struck a cord with me as IMHO Tennessee the past few years seems to have focused on recruiting the highest-ranked, 5 star recruits without regard to whether they 'fit' the system or the team's particular needs.

As we all know too well, Geno has backed off on any number of highly ranked kids for whatever reason.... ego, expectations, personality, parents, etc. It is apparent that if he gets a negative vibe, all bets are off. We, as fans, might disagree but he is the coach and he is the one that will be putting a team out on the floor.

The only recent case I was really surprised about was DD. She did not seem like a UConn team-first kind of personality. Perhaps Geno thought he could mold her ala DT. We'll never know.

They have recruited that way as long as I can remember.

 

[UCONNfan1]

Most of the comments and refrains above have been true for at least the last three years and probably longer. So ... at that point I think you have to start looking at coaches and system and maybe recruiting methodology. You don't see players or teams at TN evolve from season to season and within the course of a season.
I am not sure who the last really good guard was to play at TN? Bobbitt? I think there was a reason Uconn dropped out of recruiting AM, doubt Geno would have looked at Simmons. They have had a better run of posts and wings, but without good guards and a system of offense to get the ball to the posts consistently they are limited in their effectiveness. And I do not see actions having an affect on playing time so there is no positive/negative feedback loop for the players and they continue to do what they want on the floor.
Pat was always a little bit challenged on the offensive end of the floor, but she taught defensive and intensity and if you didn't bring it on every play you didn't play or you got yanked pretty quickly. I do not see TN playing very smart defense and I don't see them bringing it for a full 20 let alone the 40 minutes. I have no expectation that TN will suddenly find magic and transform in the next two months. I don't see them being able to string together 3 good games against good opponents so I doubt they win either the SEC or the SEC tournament and I don't see them getting beyond the 3rd or 4th round of the NCAA.
On Graves - if that tweet after the Vandy game is where her head is at, is she leaving after this year? I can understand post players getting completely frustrated in the current TN situation. It like if Stef ran the floor on breaks all game long and the guards continued to take the shot themselves - think the next game she might not run quite so often? And if you did that for a month, maybe she would just jog up the court the next month.

Tennessee fans would argue that they have great guards. Massengale, Carter, Simmons, and Reynolds. They believe Massengale is great when she is driving into the lanes to create either a shot for herself, or opportunities for defenses to collapse on her leaving teammates open. They love Simmons' fire and passion. Feel that Carter is a top 5 player in her class and a lock down defender. Next year they add one of the best shooters in the country (Dunbar), a guard who outplayed every single guard above her all last summer (Middleton), and Nared who is also a top 10 player and a do everything wing-type.

 

[UcMiami]

Tennessee fans would argue that they have great guards. Massengale, Carter, Simmons, and Reynolds. They believe Massengale is great when she is driving into the lanes to create either a shot for herself, or opportunities for defenses to collapse on her leaving teammates open. They love Simmons' fire and passion. Feel that Carter is a top 5 player in her class and a lock down defender. Next year they add one of the best shooters in the country (Dunbar), a guard who outplayed every single guard above her all last summer (Middleton), and Nared who is also a top 10 player and a do everything wing-type.

They can believe all they want, but a consistent manager of the offense, distributor of the ball, and occasional or frequent scorer (with a high shooting percentage) - nope! Heck, they struggled putting it together with a great player like Parker until Bobbitt arrived to manage the offense - and I am not saying she was AA material, but like a Maria Conlon she got players the ball and managed the team.

 

[BRS24]

Geno mentioned a recruit he passed on late in the process because she wanted to not give up her Social media account or cover her tattoos.....He did not mention any names....

Wow. Now, I know I am a biased UCONN WBB fan, but if true, it is a sad commentary that not using Twitter for 6 months, in order to focus on the ultimate goal of a nat'l championship is a hardship. And the tats? I have no issues with the UC way of expecting the players to cover what they already have, or get new ones where they won't show. It's just like all the little rules of everyone wearing socks at same level, how they stand for the anthem, no headphones out in public, etc, etc. It's a brand, but it's also a way of life, preps them for post-hoop reality, and in some cases, makes them into really, really good pro players.

 

[jsloanjr]

Tenn has their way of doing business and recruiting and coaching players, but the results speak for themselves. You can have the best recruiting class year after year that nevers develops into a team. Is that players fault or their coaches?

 

[DobbsRover2]

Yikes, off a stray comment on VN, I just noticed what Russell's FT% is: 34%.

If you have the #1 recruit and post player who might likely get a lot of FTA's in the future, you would think that the Vol staff would work on her touch enough to make sure she does way way better than about one out of every three freebies. She was true to form (that's no form) against ND.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Yikes, off a stray comment on VN, I just noticed what Russell's FT% is: 34%.

If you have the #1 recruit and post player who might likely get a lot of FTA's in the future, you would think that the Vol staff would work on her touch enough to make sure she does way way better than about one out of every three freebies. She was true to form (that's no form) against ND.

Naw. As HW has frequently pointed out in post-game interviews, they have just been working on defense so far this year. So they have her practicing blocking foul shots.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Naw. As HW has frequently pointed out in post-game interviews, they have just been working on defense so far this year. So they have her practicing blocking foul shots.

Hey, the Vols' FT defense is at 64.5%, which is only a little worse than UConn's 63.8%, so something is working down there.

Another funny from the VN by one of the the more thoughtful posters who nonetheless came out with one of those nonsense lines.

"In the later years of Pats reign, I think she tried to switch to a lankier more athletic team to match up with the schemes of uconn."

Um, I can understand Pat wanting her team at the end to be kind of lanky like Candace, but how can you match up with the the schemes of a team you're not going to play? It's like the New York Red Bulls building a team to deal with Chelsea or Real Madrid. Maybe Pat had a WCBB video game that she was crazy about, though I can't recall ever seeing one.

 

[meyers7]

Um, I can understand Pat wanting her team at the end to be kind of lanky like Candace, but how can you match up with the the schemes of a team you're not going to play? It's like the New York Red Bulls building a team to deal with Chelsea Arsenal or Real Madrid Barcelona. Maybe Pat had a WCBB video game that she was crazy about, though I can't recall ever seeing one.

FYP.

 

[jsloanjr]

Lets e on Thursday if they look any different and see if their attendance drops from the ND game...........Normally, you cannot change their stripes..............Coach Parcells always said you are what you are...........Tenn is a team in a flux.........They have too much talent to be this bad......

 

[DobbsRover2]

FYP.

Wait a minute, are the Red Bulls blowing off Arsenal like Pat did UConn? Thought they played a match a while back. Maybe it was just in my FIFA soccer game.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Lets e on Thursday if they look any different and see if their attendance drops from the ND game......Normally, you cannot change their stripes....Coach Parcells always said you are what you are......Tenn is a team in a flux....They have too much talent to be this bad.

V0ls actually packed in more than a thousand more spectators for the LSU game somehow, but yes, the TBA was pretty packed for ND, and possibly less so for the Gators though it is a good matchup. But maybe the Vols would rather be playing Mississippi right now.

 

[sarals24]

The LSU game was also Candace Parker's jersey retirement ceremony, so I think that's where the extra 1,000 came from. One of those extra fans was one Ms. A'ja Wilson, who happened to see a loss to LSU.

 

[DobbsRover2]

The LSU game was also Candace Parker's jersey retirement ceremony, so I think that's where the extra 1,000 came from. One of those extra fans was one Ms. A'ja Wilson, who happened to see a loss to LSU.

Hopefully that home loss will not give A'ja the wrong impression of UTenn, as I'm sure that with five or six more tall post players that the Vols could be really good and maybe have some chance at an FF, or maybe not.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Interesting read on Lady Vols game against Florida and the problems during the ND Game.

http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2014/1/23/5334250/a-bridge-to-build-lady-vols-vs-florida-6-30-pm-eastern

 

[DobbsRover2]

Wait a minute, Tenneessee is a "next year kind of team"???? I thought the they were a likely FF coming off their SEC championship. And maybe Russell was displaying her steady assertion last Monday, but I must have been snacking at the fridge when it happened. But at least the demands aren't that heavy for the Vols tonight since they're only expected to play 30 minutes of ball.

 

[Phil]

the crippling sense of self-loathing that the Lady Vols seem to have.

Wow, with fans like this...

 

[DobbsRover2]

the crippling sense of self-loathing that the Lady Vols seem to have.

Wow, with fans like this...

Well, with the fans anyway there's a lot of self to loathe. Love having a review center around gator shooting, as it is just so ....... maybe not exactly Tennessee, but SEC. I'm hoping that dd writes up the next UConn preview with a lead about bull-riding and jabbing in those spurs and doing all the things that CT yankees are known for.

 

[doggydaddy]

Well, with the fans anyway there's a lot of self to loathe. Love having a review center around gator shooting, as it is just so .. maybe not exactly Tennessee, but SEC. I'm hoping that dd writes up the next UConn preview with a lead about bull-riding and jabbing in those spurs and doing all the things that CT yankees are known for.

It would more be about selling insurance.

 

[jsloanjr]

This post has taken some funny winding turns since last Tuesday. For the most part, all the post were funny and positive like the character on this board.....GO VOLS!!!........

 

[DobbsRover2]

It would more be about selling insurance.

Doubt you'll need to sell me anything to insure a Husky win on Sunday, though the Bulls certainly aren't the weakest of AAC teams. But I'll wear the Perfect 39-0 shirts the next two days for insurance that the mojo stays strong.

 

[arty155]

It would more be about selling insurance.

 

[LadyVols9]

i like this thread. i would only add that the TN program has been through a lot with pat's illness, and that's really a huge understatement. she is the bedrock of an entire University. the past few teams dealt with so many real life emotional issues that other TN teams did not. the past few years have dug a hole for the current team to climb out of. with the pressures of being a lady vol, the fans, and school work, i certainly don't envy them at all.

the current players are entering a new era, but they are still working their butts off to live up to past successes and history. it will not happen overnight. when geno leaves UCONN, it will be just as challenging for the program AND for your fans. they are both icons to their programs. the players at TN are super talented and showed that for half of the ND game. if they can put together 40 mins of play, they could be a formidable opponent to anyone. there is a lot of work to do but lady vol nation will support these ladies as they bring TN back to the top.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

TN has become totally irrelevant in WCBB! They have one PLAYER, Harrison! After her is a bunch of no guts front runners! It boggles my mind why a great HS player would even look at TN! With choices of Stanford, Duke, L'ville, UCONN, Tx AM, Baylor, PSU, MSU, OKSt, TX, Calif, why would you go to TN? MD & NoCar has great recruiters but lousy game coaches in Brenda & Sylvia! Holly W. can't coach at a Div.I level!

 

[willtalk]

i.-------- TN program has been through a lot with pat's illness, and that's really a huge understatement. she is the bedrock of an entire University. the past few teams dealt with so many real life emotional issues that other TN teams did not. the past few years have dug a hole for the current team to climb out of. with the pressures of being a lady vol, the fans, and school work, i certainly don't envy them at all..

That is the Vol programs major problem. As others have mentioned the decline of the program began while she was still in charge. I remember their was a discussion on "The Summit" about the elephant in the room. No one wanted to see reality. They would let Pat decide when it was time for her to quit. When in fact her very illness made her incapable of deciding when she was no longer able to handle her job. She could, at best, only realize it well after the fact. But no one wanted to or dared to hurt their icons feelings. Which I don't think they would have done by being honest with her. It was all about maintaining Pats image so in result the program was thrown under the bus. How can you protect a legacy by destroying the product and future of that legacy?

As to the statement and attitude held by many Vol fans that " she is the bedrock of an entire University". No individual is or should ever be considered "the bedrock" of anything. Such beliefs are roots for either dysfunction or destruction. Idols do not create themselves but are instead created to fill the emotional needs of their very creators. The problem with those created Idols is that inevitably crumbling fragments will fall upon the heads of those who are bent down in worship before them.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Pat's final years at the helm are collectively an interesting conjecture as to what happened when.....After Candice left in 08, UT ran into Ball state in the NCAAs in 09, and haven't been back since.... Some say that UT's lack of success the last 5 1/2 years is due to the confusion and transition from Pat going forward.....

One thing that is apparent to me.... it seems like during the latter part of her tenure, the game had changed from Pat's glory years.... There was no more....."play hard defense and rebound" as a game plan..... a good game coach could outduel this plan.....

Another thing that changed was recruiting.... Angie Bjorklund was the #2 recruit in the country in 07 I think.... she didn't do much at UT.... Shekinna Stricklen was a wonderful player.... I liked watching her play.... but she never took her team to the Final Four..... Pat seemed in the last few years to recruit good athletes rather than team players.... bring Ariel to TN and tell current players that the High school senior was to be the starting PG the following year.... and saying in the press how the team would lear from this High schooler.... wonderful players.... but little in terms of results.....

and then Holly comes in 11-12 season (when she ran the team.... Pat not involved).... and has had 2 1/2 years .... I had expected more progress than I have seen to date.... they don't seem to be a team....

LadyVols9 talks o the emotional issues that recent UT teams have had to deal with..... I think one can only allow so much credence to this.... before you pull your socks up and return to normalcy..... and LV9, what you say about the current players "working their butts off".... I just do not see it..... the announcers for the ND game scolded them on camera for Jogging up and down the court during ND fast breaks ... there was little hustle in the LVs in the 2nd half Monday.... and many times over the past 3 years..... I have born witness to a severe lack of heart... and will to win.....

The overarching conundrum is almost everyone is in agreement that UT has the players who should be accomplishing great things.... but something is sadly missing..... What is it?

 

[UcMiami]

Bayarea - nice post and I agree with what you say. Except. I would look back before the Parker era on recruiting and coaching. There are a few players each decade that really do rise up above their surroundings and Parker was one of those players. But success for Parker didn't come until Pat reached into the JC ranks to finally get a PG in Bobbitt. From the 2000 season on when I really became a serious WCBB fan, Pat was always getting good recruits but they were often doubling up on positions recruited in the prior year or even in the same year and there would seem to be almost a tag team nature to the rotation. I never got the sense she was recruiting a team, just recruiting the best talent she could get. And by 2000, the influx of more serious basketball programs was beginning to dilute the talent available to any one team which hurt TN the most as they had been the 'big dog' for so long. Pat also loved her posts and I think took less interest and put less effort into finding HS guards - Bobbitt was initially viewed as sort of a desperation move when 2005-6 proved they had no PG. (It worked out really well and she had a 4 year WNBA career as well.)
As for the coaching - in the same period AAU travel teams were just becoming big business and the HS kids were starting to play more and practice less so they were getting to college maybe with more athletic skill, but weaker fundamentals. College coaches needed to be teaching more, and some were better prepared for that than others. It also marked the beginning of big salaries for WCBB coaches and an influx of better basketball coaches into the women's game. And I would say the beginning of the end of the road for a number of the old school long time coaches - Conrad and Portland come to mind but also maybe Landers, Foster, Hatchell, and Summitt who didn't or haven't been able to adapt or to achieve the same kind of results that they did pre 2000.
That last may sound a little harsh, but how many here would choose Pat circa 2004 over Tara or Muffet or Gary or Sherri or Jeff to coach their kid?
And I would put Holly in that old school frame work though she is new to the HCing ranks - I thought last year that there might be something there as I thought TN did better than expected, but I don't see any progress this year.