Coach Hurley says this year's team can't take "hard" coaching

[Mr. French]

These conversations are wild.

 

[CTBasketball]

He was improving, too. Going into the St John's game I thought he was becoming a mediocre/average defender after being so hideous at the start of the year. He regressed big time last game. Earlier in the year someone had an individual defensive rating stat for us and Solo and Jaylin were in the bottom group in the entire country. Does anyone know where that stat came from?

Evan Miya.

DPM he has gotten worse since the beginning of the year and is rated bottom 9% of all qualifying Big East players. Bottom 14% of all Big East guards. Only notable players worse than him are Jayden Ross, Rich Barron, and Jhamir Bryckus.

It’s not an effort thing, it’s a basketball IQ and athleticism thing.

 

[RuffRuff]

I can tell you right now we're not getting a better shooting guard in the portal than Solo Ball. There's all sorts of other deficiencies on the current roster that need to be fixed before next season, namely a big point guard and a small forward. Solo isn't a problem, he's a strength.

I don't think we need a new SG, I think we need a complimentary piece, an insurance policy and a matchup option. Otherwise it puts a ton of pressure on one incoming portal PG and a freshman 3.

I'm looking at this from an overall roster balance perspective - I don't want to be stuck with a smallish, poor ball handler & defender at the 2G with no options in case of matchups that present as issues. For instance, StJ will likely roll out another team that is long, physical and will pressure. Is Solo our best option there? Maybe that was meant to be Ross and Dan Hurley sticks with Ross confident he can make a leap next season. I'm not holding my breath on that one.

 

[superjohn]

I don't think we need a new SG, I think we need a complimentary piece, an insurance policy and a matchup option. Otherwise it puts a ton of pressure on one incoming portal PG and a freshman 3.

I'm looking at this from an overall roster balance perspective - I don't want to be stuck with a smallish, poor ball handler & defender at the 2G with no options in case of matchups that present as issues. For instance, StJ will likely roll out another team that is long, physical and will pressure. Is Solo our best option there? Maybe that was meant to be Ross and Dan Hurley sticks with Ross confident he can make a leap this season. I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Well sure, I think we need like 4 guys in the portal and we need better size/athleticism/guys off the bounce but Solo is going to be great. He's already really good.

 

[RuffRuff]

Evan Miya.

DPM he has gotten worse since the beginning of the year and is rated bottom 9% of all qualifying Big East players. Bottom 14% of all Big East guards. Only notable players worse than him are Jayden Ross, Rich Barron, and Jhamir Bryckus.

It’s not an effort thing, it’s a basketball IQ and athleticism thing.

Yup, and it's visible. If you're at a game and you track Solo, Jaylen or Jayden around on defense, it's not inspiring. The amount of times they lose their man, get confused on a switch, can't fight through a pick, jump on a pump fake, can't close out is so below the bar I don't know if it's fixable.

You can focus on Solo's shooting, but he is so bad on the other end of the floor it negates a lot of it.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

He had played 5 years of college and was 23. His NBA value was limited. He wasn’t ranked coming out of high school, came to us with pretty much zero NBA potential and got there - however fringe he is, he became an NBA player on our watch.

In between, more importantly, he won two national titles as a starting point guard, which is kinda sorta what we are in this for. Put up 20-5-7 and no turnovers in the national championship last year. His assist to turnover ratio took a big leap forward into pure point guard territory, and he quarterbacked maybe one of the most efficient offenses in recent memory (Cam helped in that regard as well, to be fair). He was never a great shooter (43 percent vs. 41 percent is statistical noise - amounts to maybe one extra made basket every 5 games), but seeing how much of a dumpster fire we are in late clock situations this year should make his absence glaring.

We’ve had 10 guys go to the NBA and Castle is the only one who came to us an NBA-ready guy who you can’t say we had a big part in putting there. And there are others who were never going to be NBA guys, who still developed as college players. RJ Cole was way too small to make the league. Vital was way too small as a 2 guard. Whaley was too slight and not a good enough shooter. Diarra is also too small and not a good enough shooter. Those guys got better too.

I get that Ross and Stewart haven’t taken the sophomore leap we hoped, but they were fringe top 100 guys and those tend to be guys you take a flyer on - some pan out and carve out roles or turn out to be way better than you expected. But some don’t find their fit. We didn’t have our program’s hopes pinned to Ross (a 3-star ranked No. 113 by 247 and No. 83 by ESPN) or Stewart (a 4-star ranked No. 56 by 247 and No. 95 by ESPN).

To be honest man I don’t care to go in the weeds on transfer development. If you all want to count players like Newton and Cole go for it.

But a recruit who wants a REAL future in the league will not be moved by saying “hey look what we did to help this transfer get to the g league.” Thats such low hanging fruit that I can’t believe our fans are trying to hang on to based on our history.

The patterns of what this coaching staff hasn’t been able to teach and develop skill wise is obvious. You all can choose to keep your heads in the sand about it as we waste talent though.

 

[husky429]

Evan Miya.

DPM he has gotten worse since the beginning of the year and is rated bottom 9% of all qualifying Big East players. Bottom 14% of all Big East guards. Only notable players worse than him are Jayden Ross, Rich Barron, and Jhamir Bryckus.

It’s not an effort thing, it’s a basketball IQ and athleticism thing.

He and Stewart just have no game sense on defense to speak of. Completely forget their fundamentals and don't read the offensive player at all. They forget the scout.

I see a SJU player who has pump faked on closeouts a half-dozen times already... Solo runs at him and leaps 3 feet by him trying to block a shot. Anyone who has been a JV bench player could have told you the read: close out to the shooting hand, sit down, and force the player to his left hand.

 

[RuffRuff]

To be honest man I don’t care to go in the weeds on transfer development. If you all want to count players like Newton and Cole go for it.

But a recruit who wants a REAL future in the league will not be moved by saying “hey look what we did to help this transfer get to the g league.” Thats such low hanging fruit that I can’t believe our fans are trying to hang on to based on our history.

The patterns of what this coaching staff hasn’t been able to teach and develop skill wise is obvious. You all can choose to keep your heads in the sand about it as we waste talent though.

Questions for you - do you think every recruit has the potential to develop into an NC caliber player?

Are you ok forgoing full seasons of being an NC caliber team for the sake of developmental, maybe 2?

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Questions for you - do you think every recruit has the potential to develop into an NC caliber player?

Are you ok forgoing full seasons of being an NC caliber team for the sake of developmental, maybe 2?

No not every recruit. But I’ve said multiple times that we’re recruiting at a level I haven’t seen before as a fan with Hurley. Not only do we get who we want for the most part, we identify guys super early that are super talented. Thats ELITE all around recruiting acumen.

The board doesn’t think this now, but do you know how impressive it is to be the first big school to jump in on a Jayden Ross and his talent is so clear that NBA scouts notice him before he’s even able to step on a court? That’s not normal.

Also what you’re not getting is, you won’t be an NC caliber team if you can’t develop. So it’s not about foregoing being NC caliber, it’s about getting there.

We just spent a season doing neither.

 

[boog204]

Yup, and it's visible. If you're at a game and you track Solo, Jaylen or Jayden around on defense, it's not inspiring. The amount of times they lose their man, get confused on a switch, can't fight through a pick, jump on a pump fake, can't close out is so below the bar I don't know if it's fixable.

You can focus on Solo's shooting, but he is so bad on the other end of the floor it negates a lot of it.

What's really impressive, in a Baxter eating a whole wheel of cheese way, is that those three guys fail pretty exceptionally at each one of those things. I just pump-faked in my classroom, and I'm fairly certain Jayden bit on it, Solo consistently loses guys in switches, and Stew has a physical inability to read/fight through screens as an on-ball defender. It's amazing.

I'm still willing t0 die on the Jayden Ross can be a lock-down defender hill if he'd just stop being such a spazz.

 

[RuffRuff]

No not every recruit. But I’ve said multiple times that we’re recruiting at a level I haven’t seen before as a fan with Hurley. Not only do we get who we want for the most part, we identify guys super early that are super talented. Thats ELITE all around recruiting acumen.

The board doesn’t think this now, but do you know how impressive it is to be the first big school to jump in on a Jayden Ross and his talent is so clear that NBA scouts notice him before he’s even able to step on a court? That’s not normal.

Also what you’re not getting is, you won’t be an NC caliber team if you can’t develop. So it’s not about foregoing being NC caliber, it’s about getting there.

We just spent a season doing neither.

We've just started getting who we want. McNeeley was late in process once we won our second, Abraham was a 75th kind of recruit, Nowell was anywhere between 35-55. We have upped our brand and are at a new echelon of attraction across HS & portal recruiting, so does that mean we should stick with commitments we made when we couldn't attract how we can now? That is the question and one I'll be curious to see play out this post season. This is easily the most interesting portal season to date for Hurley.

 

[Chin Diesel]

You do wonder the dynamic in the locker room. Here you have AK, who was a pre-determined leader, slumping for a LONG time, trying to play a role he’s not designed for. How strong is his leadership when he’s folding at a crucial time? Neither him or Samson are natural leaders as upperclassmen. Hassan has leadership traits but banged up and limited. Liam is fiery but it’s hard to pass on a leadership role to a OAD. You got a group of guys on bench who aren’t playing much or at all, and wonder if malcontent.

What worries me into next year is that we are rolling no tough established leadership back at all.

Playong devil's advocate, if the locker room leadership is bad, is it a bad thing to clean it out and bring in some new leaders??

 

[FfldCntyFan]

What Pitino said and what Hurley said are not the same. Hurley even said that the entire team, he included, were not prepared for this level of scrutiny

Pitino said in February last year that the season is lost, that the team isn’t tough (not that they can’t be coached tough) and that it’s been the most unenjoyable experience of his life

Pitino also blamed the level of talent on his assistants who allegedly were the people who recruited the players.

Dan Hurley stated something a bit more candidly than he should have. Pitino was making sure the world found out that he warranted zero blame for what his team was.

 

[RuffRuff]

Playong devil's advocate, if the locker room leadership is bad, is it a bad thing to clean it out and bring in some new leaders??

We don't really know what is going on, so what I'm throwing out is all hypothetical. Hurley has been pretty somber on the team makeup over the last half of the season, and transparent around the teams toughness.

If there is any truth to it, it's a tough call. You do want your leaders to be kids that grew up with the program and can infuse the culture piece. Cleaning house doesn't seem like the right move. I'd say look at what the portal has to offer, and go get a couple alphas to bring into the locker room that will mesh with anyone coming back. Have to look at it as the sum of all parts.

This is really the hardest part of coaching in today's world. This offseason in particular is a unique inflection point for this staff as one who has been open around philosophy, yet it doesn't seem to be working with this batch of players.

 

[superjohn]

We've just started getting who we want. McNeeley was late in process once we won our second, Abraham was a 75th kind of recruit, Nowell was anywhere between 35-55. We have upped our brand and are at a new echelon of attraction across HS & portal recruiting, so does that mean we should stick with commitments we made when we couldn't attract how we can now? That is the question and one I'll be curious to see play out this post season. This is easily the most interesting portal season to date for Hurley.

Do you know how unbelievable it is that the staff identified, targeted, and got NBA talent Jayden Ross?

We haven't seen a basketball talent like this in decades.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Do you know how unbelievable it is that the staff identified, targeted, and got NBA talent Jayden Ross?

We haven't seen a basketball talent like this in decades.

Jayden’s cool, but Cam and Newton were the best guards we’ve ever seen here. He has big shoes to fill.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

We've just started getting who we want. McNeeley was late in process once we won our second, Abraham was a 75th kind of recruit, Nowell was anywhere between 35-55. We have upped our brand and are at a new echelon of attraction across HS & portal recruiting, so does that mean we should stick with commitments we made when we couldn't attract how we can now? That is the question and one I'll be curious to see play out this post season. This is easily the most interesting portal season to date for Hurley.

There’s no one in the portal we can get that would be better than our sophomore group if they could actually get developed.

But yeah, if we can’t develop them then go ahead and get some players that another coach already did that job with.

 

[yungdowork]

There’s no one in the portal we can get that would be better than our sophomore group if they could actually get developed.

But yeah, if we can’t develop them then go ahead and get some players that another coach already did that job with.

How can you continue to make this point in every thread with 0 insight into what is happening at practice or behind the scenes? How does it serve the coaches to not develop their players? Wouldn’t that just hurt their ability to land high-profile transfers and recruits? Why would kids choose to come to a school where coaches supposedly don’t develop players?

 

[RuffRuff]

There’s no one in the portal we can get that would be better than our sophomore group if they could actually get developed.

But yeah, if we can’t develop them then go ahead and get some players that another coach already did that job with.

Key word is "if".

I swear you need to become a Marquette or Purdue fan. Then you can see two committed developers with limited rosters who are wearing their few stars out. Marquette looks exhausted, again. Purdue has lost 4 straight, Smith has played 40 minutes in 5 of his last 7, because he has to.

Problem with this 3-4 year development program is you are only gonna have 2-3 seasoned guys good enough to be legit in any given year. Both of these teams came in with zero depth, reliant on 2-3 key guys.

 

[superjohn]

Key word is "if".

I swear you need to become a Marquette or Purdue fan. Then you can see two committed developers with limited rosters who are wearing their few stars out. Marquette looks exhausted, again. Purdue has lost 4 straight, Smith has played 40 minutes in 5 of his last 7, because he has to.

Problem with this 3-4 year development program is you are only gonna have 2-3 seasoned guys good enough to be legit in any given year. Both of these teams came in with zero depth, reliant on 2-3 key guys.

AK is playing 38 minutes per game in Big East play which is pretty ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous when you consider how he's playing.

 

[RuffRuff]

AK is playing 38 minutes per game in Big East play which is pretty ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous when you consider how he's playing.

There is definitely a loyalist comfort binky aspect of Dan Hurley's reportoire' that I've yet to fully understand.

It'd be one thing if you saw AK out there conducting the offense in some way where his presence looked essential, but it's generally looked discombobulated to go along with the brutal shooting. We'd probably be better if we let him sit more and freshen up, his legs have looked heavier than ever lately.

 

[OkaForPrez]

Playong devil's advocate, if the locker room leadership is bad, is it a bad thing to clean it out and bring in some new leaders??

In 2012, a not quite yet ready Shabazz Napier admittedly struggled to fill Kemba’s leadership void. The team struggled and underachieved with a national championship hangover. glad we didn’t run him out of town before 2014.