Clingan on the bench game after game

[jibsey]

Freshman…especially freshman bigs traditionally hit a wall during tougher conference play. Filipowski for Duke played 30 minutes and had 0 points. They talked of him being a lottery pick based on early season.

Clingan? A wall in 7 minutes? Please. Clingan can do things Sanogo can’t like pass out of double teams. He’s a better rebounder but I’m not cutting or replacing Sanogo, just adding Clingan to the mix for maybe 10 extra minutes a game when Sanogo is in there.

 

[QDOG5]

DC and AS have not played together enough to know how much it would hurt our D. Because of this unknown a case may be made that our D might be better. Is there anyone posting on this thread that believes DC should NOT be getting at 15 minutes a game. I don't want to project seasonal improvement. I want to win as much as we can this year.

 

[Huskyforlife]

There are games for double big, but yesterday wasn't it.

It's incredible how many of you only consider half the court. You want Sanogo to guard Kaluma? Or Baylor freaking Scheierman? They'd eat him alive and drive right by him or run him off screens. For the marginal offense improvement, we'd be giving more back on defense. That's the primary reason it can't work often. Sanogo is not a versatile defender. He's heavy and slow.

And then on offense, everyone is mad that Andre Jackson's guy is in the paint. Guess where the 2nd big defender would be?

If Sanogo is actually going to be a 40% 3pt shooter, that does help, but he needs space to operate in the post. He's a pivot guy and more recently facing up and driving to setup the move. He needs the space to move around guys. That's one of the reasons double teams hurt him so much, it limits his space. Having a bigger big in the game who can't space the floor is not going to help him. If Clingan were Nunge with his shot, sure. But he's not there yet. Sanogo is not Toubelis to really take advantage of big to big passing. He doesn't have the same passing ability or creativity. He's still working on it.

This is not fantasy football. You can't just run out a lineup of your "best" players and expect them to be the same together as they are playing in better contexts, especially on defense. They make each other worse.

Recall how much better offensively Whaley was when her played as the lone center vs as a 4 man next to Sanogo.

It’s like people don’t realize Clingans man will have 2 feet in the paint, just like Jackson’s. Sanogo is a good shooter, but you don’t wanna turn him into Karaban just to get Clingan 25 minutes(which people are dishonestly saying they only want 15, so transparently false). Moving Karaban to the 3 will also hurt the defense in the same way Sanogo at the 4 would.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

There is no reason why Sanogo and Clingan can’t play on the floor together. None. This tunnel vision is killing us. Sanogo can play the four. He guards out the the three point line and is one of our best three point shooters (/s?). Put a line up of Clingan, Sanogo, Karaban, Hawkins, and Newton out there.

We are a predicable team.

We are a predictable message board.

Let's make the first move, and change our ways.

Do everything possible to cheer this team to a strong regular season close and Big East Tournament success that demonstrates that this OOC powerhouse has sorted itself out in its tough-on-the-road conference, and deserves a great seeding.

That's my job, your job, and everybody else's job here.

It's time to take the lead. Stop waiting for those you don't believe in to change. Be the change you want to see. Let those more timid follow. E pluribus unum.

 

[UCan3]

Andre Jackson grabs a bunch of rebounds, plays elite defense, doesn’t do anything else, “Kid sucks, bench him.”

Donovan Clingan grabs a bunch of rebounds, plays pretty good defense, doesn’t do anything else, “Put him in the starting lineup.”

I know I shouldn’t be surprised, but cmon guys.

I love how rather than talk about the player was on the floor for 28 minutes, yes redirect this discussion and criticize the one player with more upside than anyone on our team who currently RIDES then bench for no apparent reason.

Most posters want AJ Playing time to reflect his performance and I think we’re settling in on 13-19 minutes a game.

We can’t have a player that doesn’t need to be guarded on offense that refuses to set screens and free up our sharp shooters.

Can’t fault people here for a bit of frustration as AJ sits at the 3 point line and heaves up the bricks deep into 2nd half or makes that god awful last pass yesterday. It’s time for him to sit a bit - give others a chance.

 

[tower1]

Karaban played 35 minutes tonight. Most on the team, and obviously as a freshman. He didn't have a ton of open looks, and only 5 points. How do you possibly rationalize not playing Clingan for a few more minutes so the kid could have a breather. Clingan played 7 minutes. 4 points, 7 boards and our one and only block. I'm so angry just typing this.

All we need is a good head coach and keep Hurley as our recruiting assistant !

 

[tower1]

I’m not seeing anything here that disproves my point. They both have positive impacts on the boards and defense. Swapping one for the other doesn’t solve our spacing problems on offense, or our playmaking issues. It makes our perimeter defense significantly worse, while making our rim defense significantly better, that’s really it. But you also have to understand you’re asking Sanogo to start defending perimeter guys in a way he never has before consistently since he’s been here, if you demand him to share the floor with Clingan. And if there’s people still suggesting Clingan is better than Sanogo, I don’t think we’re watching the same games.

In many games Clingan has outplayed Sonogo.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I love how rather than talk about the player was on the floor for 28 minutes, yes redirect this discussion and criticize the one player with more upside than anyone on our team who currently RIDES then bench for no apparent reason.

Most posters want AJ Playing time to reflect his performance and I think we’re settling in on 13-19 minutes a game.

We can’t have a player that doesn’t need to be guarded on offense that refuses to set screens and free up our sharp shooters.

Can’t fault people here for a bit of frustration as AJ sits at the 3 point line and heaves up the bricks deep into 2nd half or makes that god awful last pass yesterday. It’s time for him to sit a bit - give others a chance.

You guard Andre and Clingan the same way. It’s not like the Clingan/Sanogo front court spaces the floor any better than Jackson/Sanogo. And then defensively you’re trading better rim protection for considerably worse perimeter defense. Y’all will be the first people asking why Sanogo is chasing perimeter players, why Alex has to guard movement shooters instead of slower 4s, etc. It’s simply not a good solution.

 

[jibsey]

We are a predictable message board.

Let's make the first move, and change our ways.

Do everything possible to cheer this team to a strong regular season close and Big East Tournament success that demonstrates that this OOC powerhouse has sorted itself out in its tough-on-the-road conference, and deserves a great seeding.

That's my job, your job, and everybody else's job here.

It's time to take the lead. Stop waiting for those you don't believe in to change. Be the change you want to see. Let those more timid follow. E pluribus unum.

Great seeding? OOC powerhouse? St. John’s at home. Mediocre St. John’s at home.

 

[Friarsnoop]

I'm not going to beat on your coach, but there's one thing I cannot understand. From when Clingan started working out with the team in June, Hurley must've realized he needed to play. He had from them until November to figure out a way to play him and Sanogo together for 5 minutes per half. Then he could rest Sanogo for only 5 minutes each half, and still get 20 minutes per game from Clingan. That's the minimum he should be playing with his unique skill set.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Karaban is great and plays the 4. You wanna bench him?

This is the issue, isn’t it? You want Karaban, defensively, on 3s and take your best defensive player out?

Or, Jackson plays the 3 with Hawkins and Newton?

It’s a problem. I think you can try Karaban at the 3, if he can guard wings, I think it might work.

And, by putting Karaban at 3 you have only two ball handlers in the game. Tough decisions. Not saying it won’t work, but it isn’t easy decision.

 

[gsmooth]

Clingan’s moves around the basket with one big defending him, are impressive for a freshman. I remember one game he faked one big out of his shoes with a reverse layup and jammed it on the other side. Sanogo couldn’t do that in a million years.

Sanogo can do a lot of things Clingan can’t. Clingan needs more playing time for sure and even with Sanogo a few mins a game. No need to take. Dig at Sanogo.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Great seeding? OOC powerhouse? St. John’s at home. Mediocre St. John’s at home.

Huh?

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Sanogo can do a lot of things Clingan can’t. Clingan needs more playing time for sure and even with Sanogo a few mins a game. No need to take. Dig at Sanogo.

Like what for instance? Pass the ball out of a double team? Tomahawk it with one hand? Nope. Only thing I’ve seen Sanogo do consistently that Clingan can’t is shoot 3’s.

 

[Kenny11]

Clingan needs to play at least 13-15 minutes a game. To do that he will need to play 2-3 minutes each half with Sanogo. Dan Hurley has to figure the other 3 guys to have on the court when those two are playing together. Dan Hurley has to figure what offensive sets to run when they are in together and if we go zone or stay man to man. Make it happen.

This is a good post. Staff should be able to implement a plan for these 2-3 minutes each half

 

[HuskyHawk]

Like what for instance? Pass the ball out of a double team? Tomahawk it with one hand? Nope. Only thing I’ve seen Sanogo do consistently that Clingan can’t is shoot 3’s.

Dribble, attack the basket off the bounce, guard 4s and mobile 5s, hedge, set screens, shoot, make layups with either hand, make baby hook shots. Other than rebounding and shot blocking, he's better at everything. Yes, the double team passing wasn't great, because it's not easy and requires guys to become available. He's averaging 2.1 assists per 40. Clingan is at 1.3. Since they stopped posting Sanogo and started getting him the ball on the move, his passing has been very good.

I do think DC should play more, but Sanogo shouldn't play less. We also need to be realistic about Donovan's limitations. He struggles defending outside the paint, and Big East coaches are now attacking him with wings, who he tends to foul. His shooting has regressed, seems like he's rushing. He's going to continue to be a situational sub, and Hurley has to do a better job of finding those situations.

 

[Rico444]

Like what for instance? Pass the ball out of a double team? Tomahawk it with one hand? Nope. Only thing I’ve seen Sanogo do consistently that Clingan can’t is shoot 3’s.

He's averaging 17 points a game. The overwhelming majority of Clingan's points come from alleyoops because he's huge. He has a ton of talent and I think the sky's the limit for him, but he's not backing centers down in the low post and scoring over them at anywhere close to the rate Sanogo is.

 

[husky429]

I do think DC should play more, but Sanogo shouldn't play less.

This is the tough spot to be in and I completely agree.

The way we do this probably has to be cutting into some of Andre's minutes. No one is guarding Andre on the perimeter so it makes the most sense. You aren't affecting spacing by swapping them out.

 

[freescooter]

If Jackson ever takes more than 6-7 shots in a game again this year I’m going to lose my mind. If we let Karaban take more shots we would’ve won that game. As others have pointed out, Jackson is killing our offense because it allows teams to either clog the paint and play 20 feet off of AJax or allows them to hang at the top of the key waiting on Hawkins or Karaban to come off a screen. It also means that Jackson can’t be the screener, which puts more pressure on Karaban/Sanogo to set the screens. Basically the only time we can generate a decent offensive set with Jackson in there is if Jackson is buried in the corner and we run some action on the opposite side of the court. I’m not a coach or a basketball expert and even I can clearly see this isn’t working. One way I see around this is to just let AJax keep running the baseline back and forth and if his guy isn’t playing him right throw a lob for the dunk. Other than that, if he can’t hit shots he needs to sit. Not sure why Andre decided he was going to have his offensive coming out party against the 2 top teams in the league (Xavier/Creighton). He single handedly lost us both those games. I love Jackson and he does make this team go from very good to elite when he’s on, but man he’s such a liability on offense.

But the computers say Jackson is the 12 th best player in the country. So it must be true.

 

[Rico444]

But the computers say Jackson is the 12 th best player in the country. So it must be true.

Oh look, it's the guy who disappeared when we were 14-0 and only shows up after losses. Welcome back!

 

[husky429]

Oh look, it's the guy who disappeared when we were 14-0 and only shows up after losses. Welcome back!

I genuinely don't understand it. Why be a fan at all? I can't imagine it's trolling because this has gone on for YEARS with some posters.

 

[imno1]

I genuinely don't understand it. Why be a fan at all? I can't imagine it's trolling because this has gone on for YEARS with some posters.

Grievance politics

 

[Chief00]

Are there any opinions as to what other Big East coaches think when they watch our games and this is what they see? 7 minutes 7 rebounds. Help defense is not happening unless he is in the lane. Otherwise it is take what you want in the lane. I would bet the opposing coaches are high 5 ing the ongoing stubbornness by Dan Hurley. And could a reporter get info as to why Samson, otherwise known as Sampson on this board, is not seeing the floor?

The only way he can play more minutes is to go Double Big! Thus far, Danny has favored taking our most productive player off the court (Adama) rather than doing that to give Donovan minutes.

 

[UConnSwag11]

No team is afraid of driving to the lane or posting up with Sanogo at the 5. No team is worried about defending the three with Jackson in. Clingan helps with both

 

[auror]

But the computers say Jackson is the 12 th best player in the country. So it must be true.

*was.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

He's averaging 17 points a game. The overwhelming majority of Clingan's points come from alleyoops because he's huge. He has a ton of talent and I think the sky's the limit for him, but he's not backing centers down in the low post and scoring over them at anywhere close to the rate Sanogo is.

Lol. Sanogo rarely “scores” over anyone. He does back into them so they don’t slap the ball away or tie him up. He backs in towards the hoop, pivots and tosses that short floater. It works for him and that’s how he gets the in close buckets, but many times a guard will double him up and then it’s a tie up or a turnover. Passing out of a double team is one of the things Clingan could teach Sanogo. Because Sanogo and Clingan are different types of players with different ways of scoring is one of the reasons why I think both would complement each other when on the floor together.

 

[gsmooth]

Like what for instance? Pass the ball out of a double team? Tomahawk it with one hand? Nope. Only thing I’ve seen Sanogo do consistently that Clingan can’t is shoot 3’s.

You can't be serious with that question. Look at HuskyHawk's response in post #106-he answers it well.

 

[Scottobot]

Clingan, Sanogo, Newton, Hawkins, and Karaban are clearly our best 5 players. This is a well rounded lineup that provides defense, rebounding, scoring inside and out. I am just hoping Hurley knows this and is saving it as a surprise for his opponents in post season.

With that lineup Jackson could be the 6th man and replace any one of the 5 off the bench.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Dribble, attack the basket off the bounce, guard 4s and mobile 5s, hedge, set screens, shoot, make layups with either hand, make baby hook shots. Other than rebounding and shot blocking, he's better at everything. Yes, the double team passing wasn't great, because it's not easy and requires guys to become available. He's averaging 2.1 assists per 40. Clingan is at 1.3. Since they stopped posting Sanogo and started getting him the ball on the move, his passing has been very good.

I do think DC should play more, but Sanogo shouldn't play less. We also need to be realistic about Donovan's limitations. He struggles defending outside the paint, and Big East coaches are now attacking him with wings, who he tends to foul. His shooting has regressed, seems like he's rushing. He's going to continue to be a situational sub, and Hurley has to do a better job of finding those situations.

Wishful thinking on your part. I don’t have time to argue with you, but I will say you are wrong on 4 of those points you make that I highlighted. Also I never have said that Sanogo should play less, what I have said many times is they complement each other well when on the floor together because they can score in different ways, and other teams can’t defend that. My contention is to give Clingan major minutes, not at Sanogo’s expense but at Jackson’s expense. UConn’s best starting five is Clingan, Sanogo, Karaban, Hawkins, and Newton, no if’s, and’s, or but’s. Jackson gets 12-15 minutes off the bench.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

You can't be serious with that question. Look at HuskyHawk's response in post #106-he answers it well.

Please get a clue.