Chief’s Briefs - Butler Edition

[Drfla]

Not sure the Calhoun used two bigs argument is a good one. The game has changed drastically in the last 10 years. Pro and college.

 

[Chief00]

First I’d like to say that Sanogo is a very good college player. He does have limitations however. 58% FG shooter from where he takes his shots is average. If he and Clingan played the same amount of minutes Sanogo would not be our leading rebounder.

Sanogo is very good but some posters greatly overstate his impact. He has not performed like the Big East Player of the year. In fact during the 5 games we lost his numbers are 78 points, 31 rebounds and 6 assists. Opposing center numbers are 75 points, 43 rebounds and 7 assists. If, as BEPOY, he outplays the opposing centers by a little bit we probably win 2 or 3 of the lost games.

The above being said, he did make a couple of nice passes from the high post the last game and perhaps he and Clingan can mesh if Sanogo isn’t in the paint while they play together. Defensively they may have to go to a zone against some teams if they play together.

25-27 minutes for Sanogo and 20-22 for Clingan might work.

Adama is shooting 58%, is our leading rebounder and scorer. LOL - so getting outscored by a grand total of 3 points in our 5 loses isn’t exactly pointing cause at him. You should check some of his teammates, other than Hawkins.

I think you have taken the Sanogo/Clingan mutually exclusive bait and based your arguments on that assumption.

Did 3 time NC and HOF coach Calhoun view Boone/Okafor, Armstrong/Boone, Thabeet/Andrien, etc as mutually exclusive? Of course not!

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Not sure the Calhoun used two bigs argument is a good one. The game has changed drastically in the last 10 years. Pro and college.

Drastically? How?

 

[bendm]

so getting outscored by a grand total of 3 points in our 5 loses isn’t exactly pointing cause at him

yes it definitely is "pointing cause"

the point DRfla made was that our "best player" and the preseason BEPOY should have outplayed each of nunge, prosper, croswell, soriano, and samuel, but he did not. scoring 3 more points and getting 12 fewer rebounds than those guys is not outplaying them it is matching them at best. among those 5 guys only soriano is arguably his team's best player.

 

[Chief00]

that's not an answer to my question. whaley and sanogo were 2 of our top 5 players last year and the offense was still horrendous when we had to play them together. whaley was arguably a better fit next to sanogo than clingan is.

To compare Whaley as a player to either Sanogo or Clingan is silly. They are both much higher level players than Whaley. No comparison. This isn’t to disrespect Whaley but he was a meaningful role player not a star.

 

[Chief00]

Not sure the Calhoun used two bigs argument is a good one. The game has changed drastically in the last 10 years. Pro and college.

Yes, the game has change since he left. We have won one NC in those ten years and that was with his players.

 

[Chief00]

but playing double Big last year did not work...you even coined the phrase "10 in 10" regarding our slow starts. so as bad as our O has been lately it was even worse last year when we had to pair whaley and sanogo, and whaley was much better suited to play PF than either sanogo or clingan is.

Who the heck was the double big. We only had one Big. Whaley isn’t a true Big.

 

[Chief00]

yes it definitely is "pointing cause"

the point DRfla made was that our "best player" and the preseason BEPOY should have outplayed each of nunge, prosper, croswell, soriano, and samuel, but he did not. scoring 3 more points and getting 12 fewer rebounds than those guys is not outplaying them it is matching them at best. among those 5 guys only soriano is arguably his team's best player.

He also had Clingan taking 14 of his minutes per game. So that impacts the numbers. Your argument is silly. He is one of our top 2-3 players.

 

[Chief00]

Yeah, I am inclined to believe that using Donovan and Adama together for extended periods isn’t going to be effective given their skill sets. They are both back to the basket guys and using them both together, just brings another defender into the paint. That said, I have no problem with overlapping them a minute or so, as they come in and out to steal more minutes for Clingan. That would get Donovan an extra four or five minutes right there. I joke about it, but I actually see Adama at the top of the key passing down to Donovan. I think it could be effective.

I’m not sure how effective Samson can be for long stretches, given that he hasn’t played this year, but I absolutely like his size and physicality giving Alex a rest during the game.

As much as I hate to risk reigniting the Bouknight debate because it seems to trigger some people, I don’t think Donovan is “ready“ to play in the NBA, but for different reasons than James. As big a guy as he is, and he is still a young kid in coming into his “grown man” muscles. I think that Clingan would benefit from another season, expanding his game, getting some more range, maturing and just getting to enjoy being a college student one more year. That said, much as I said with Bouknight, I think if someone’s offering you, life-changing money, you probably have to take it.

I think Clingan needs another year of college too. My concern is now that Adama may not be a first round pick and if he stays in college - neither Clingan or Adama are going to be willing to split 40 minutes next year. I think they are both very valuable players and I would like Hurley to figure things out, so we won’t be playing against one next year or watching Donovan get more minutes in the NBA than he got here,

 

[bendm]

He also had Clingan taking 14 of his minutes per game. So that impacts the numbers. Your argument is silly. He is one of our top 2-3 players.

sanogo averaged 27.6 mpg in those 5 games which is above his season average. lack of PT isnt an excuse.

 

[Drfla]

He also had Clingan taking 14 of his minutes per game. So that impacts the numbers. Your argument is silly. He is one of our top 2-3 players.

That is the point. He is one of our top 2-3 players. But he was supposed to be the BEPOY. The best player in the league.

 

[Drfla]

Drastically? How?

Really. Many top teams don’t even play a big man, let alone two bigs. Teams are shooting twice as many threes as 10 years ago. Alabama (#2 in the country), under Nate Oates tries to exclusively shoot layups (not post ups) and threes. To them the mid range shot is a poor shot. When we won the championship in 2011 we took 17 threes per game and shot 32.9% on them. And that’s with Kemba, JLamb and Shabazz on the team.

 

[Chief00]

That is the point. He is one of our top 2-3 players. But he was supposed to be the BEPOY. The best player in the league.

He is one of our top 2-3 players. Leads the team in points and rebounds per game. He’s probably our most productive player.

 

[Chief00]

sanogo averaged 27.6 mpg in those 5 games which is above his season average. lack of PT isnt an excuse.

LOL - he averages one minute less per game for the season. You are really digging a deeper hole for yourself.

 

[bendm]

LOL - he averages one minute less per game for the season. You are really digging a deeper hole for yourself.

LOL what’s your point? You claimed sanogo wasn’t playing enough in those games when he was actually playing more than usual.

Last year you said he was playing too much and had no energy to close out games.

 

[Chief00]

LOL what’s your point? You claimed sanogo wasn’t playing enough in those games when he was actually playing more than usual.

Last year you said he was playing too much and had no energy to close out games.

That’s not the point. You were comparing Adama’s performance, I assume against the starter against him. Yet, he was only playing 27 minutes per game. In short, he was on the bench 33% of the game when many starters only miss 12% to 20% of the game.

 

[bendm]

That’s not the point. You were comparing Adama’s performance, I assume against the starter against him. Yet, he was only playing 27 minutes per game. In short, he was on the bench 33% of the game when many starters only miss 12% to 20% of the game.

Ok chief, Come up with all the excuses you can for sanogo but it’s been a pretty disappointing year so far for the preseason BEPOY.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Really. Many top teams don’t even play a big man, let alone two bigs. Teams are shooting twice as many threes as 10 years ago. Alabama (#2 in the country), under Nate Oates tries to exclusively shoot layups (not post ups) and threes. To them the mid range shot is a poor shot. When we won the championship in 2011 we took 17 threes per game and shot 32.9% on them. And that’s with Kemba, JLamb and Shabazz on the team.

Lol!!! Maybe if Alabama had a big to match up with Sanogo, he might not have scored 26 points. We beat them by 15 points IIRC.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Really. Many top teams don’t even play a big man, let alone two bigs. Teams are shooting twice as many threes as 10 years ago. Alabama (#2 in the country), under Nate Oates tries to exclusively shoot layups (not post ups) and threes. To them the mid range shot is a poor shot. When we won the championship in 2011 we took 17 threes per game and shot 32.9% on them. And that’s with Kemba, JLamb and Shabazz on the team.

BTW…….having a great team without a starting big man is nothing new. Sidney Moncrief, Marvin Delph, and Ron Brewer proved that 45 years ago. One of the great all time teams IMHO.