Charge or Block - The hardest call in sports

[DogMania]

If there's a play that the refs seem to get wrong far too often is the charge. Players are sliding in front of that new circle and it seems more times than not they're getting there a tad late but getting the call.

They should change the rule (or maybe better put, enforce it properly) and only reward the charge if the defender is set before the offensive players goes into his last step. When it's one of those bang-bang plays, there's no way for the player driving to the basket to avoid the contact. They should train the refs that if it looks like the defender just got there in time, call that a block. If it's that close, the defender is sliding in there the last moment giving the offensive player no chance of avoiding the contact.

The offensive player should be allowed a path to the basket especially when they've picked up their dribble and are already into their move to the basket. If the defender set themselves as the offensive player picks up his dribble and is motionless well before the contact takes place, then I can see that as a sound defensive play that should be rewarded.

 

[mauconnfan]

Referees suck on this call because most probably never played the game so they don't see if from the "floor" view. Hey the one charge call I hate, usually a Dukie picking it up, is when a guy goes to the hole and has already left his feet a few feet from the basket allowing a bit more time for someone to slide over when he lands. If you weren' there for take-off I should never be a charbe and they miss that one all the time. Kelly at Duke is the best at that (or the worst!).

They get the call wrong more often than right from what I see!!

 

[Druken Friar]

If there's a play that the refs seem to get wrong far too often is the charge. Players are sliding in front of that new circle and it seems more times than not they're getting there a tad late but getting the call.

They should change the rule (or maybe better put, enforce it properly) and only reward the charge if the defender is set before the offensive players goes into his last step. When it's one of those bang-bang plays, there's no way for the player driving to the basket to avoid the contact. They should train the refs that if it looks like the defender just got there in time, call that a block. If it's that close, the defender is sliding in there the last moment giving the offensive player no chance of avoiding the contact.

The offensive player should be allowed a path to the basket especially when they've picked up their dribble and are already into their move to the basket. If the defender set themselves as the offensive player picks up his dribble and is motionless well before the contact takes place, then I can see that as a sound defensive play that should be rewarded.

I think ESPN should do a 10 minute special on the call because the defender does not have to be "set" to get a call. You have to be in proper defensive position, you can be moving with the offensive player. I've seen plenty of plays were the offensive player jumps into the defender and gets a call. That's just as bad in my opinion.

That said I agree with what you said about guys sliding into players driving to the basket. Once a player commits to the lay-up/dunk you should not be able to slide in front and get a call. However, things happen so fast the ref often can not tell when the defensive player got there.

 

[mauconnfan]

I think ESPN should do a 10 minute special on the call because the defender does not have to be "set" to get a call. You have to be in proper defensive position, you can be moving with the offensive player. I've seen plenty of plays were the offensive player jumps into the defender and gets a call. That's just as bad in my opinion.

That said I agree with what you said about guys sliding into players driving to the basket. Once a player commits to the lay-up/dunk you should not be able to slide in front and get a call. However, things happen so fast the ref often can not tell when the defensive player got there.

Holy crap shows how much I can read of DMs post huh? Didn't even realize we had the same thoughts on the drive to the hoop - even though this was one if his shortest posts I didn't even read it all!! LOL

 

[dogpause]

I think Goal Tending is a tougher call.

 

[TheChamps990411]

blocked shots is the one i simply dont understand and see called very inconsistantly. could someone explain how a blocked shot is a foul compared to when its not? i see body contact on almost all blocks but sometimes its called sometimes it isnt and i cant tell the difference. the only thing i can see is if the body makes contact after the block but ive seen that called at times also.

 

[Gurleyman]

The defensive player is entitled to his vertical space, so he can elevate to block a shot and the body contact is inconsequential if the offensive player runs into him. However, a lot of refs treat blocks at the rim as if it was a blocked punt in football - ie if you block it, you can get away with as much contact as you want. It is sort of an odd juxtaposition that you can land on a guy shooting a lay-up with no call, but if you get anywhere near a jump shooter, they call it right away.

 

[dsturdy5]

The way officials are taught now, and likely for a long time, has been to "ref the defense," in other words, don't watch the offensive players, watch the defensive players. If you do that, the block/charge call becomes a lot easier.

The semi-circle under the hoop has hurt this call a bit too. A lot of guys are looking at the position of the defensive player and not looking at if he was set. When you are a secondary defender, the rulebook says you must take "time and distance" into account. The primary defender does not need to take these into account when setting up to take a charge.

The block shot results in foul because of body contact. Many times, too, you will see a clean block up high but a foul called on a second defender who got him on the way up, push from behind, etc.

Rule of thumb on this one: Take things in the order they happen. If a player makes contact with the ball and THEN the body, no call. If it is body then ball, call it. A lot of times this is bang/bang but if you can point out where the contact was, you're in good shape.

The most missed call, I have seen lately, has been a guy hit on the arm on a jump shot from about 12-15 feet. The officials have a lot to work through out there and are constantly moving but too many guys don't "work the arc" as they say. They don't move out onto the court to get a better view of perimeter shot, they just stand there and have a bad angle at jump shots. A lot of this comes from the "trail" guy who will need to bust his arse down the court to be the lead on the change of possession. Too many guys are aware of this and hang out too far back towards half court to give themselves a head start in case of a fast break.

 

[TheChamps990411]

"Rule of thumb on this one: Take things in the order they happen. If a player makes contact with the ball and THEN the body, no call. If it is body then ball, call it. A lot of times this is bang/bang but if you can point out where the contact was, you're in good shape"

This is what i figured but i still see it called insconsistantly. thanks for the explanations felllas. apparantly i wasnt as lost as i thought.

 

[UCweCONN]

I think the hardest call in sports is balls and strikes but what do I know.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I think the hardest call in sports is balls and strikes but what do I know.

i agree.

 

[dogpause]

I've officiated all the major sports except hockey, and also attended the MLB umpiring school, back when it was owned by Bill Kinnamen. I think most officials consider basketball to be the most challenging for a number or reasons. It's speed, the amount of incidental contact, the fact that it's played in 3 planes, and the confined space of the court, which makes clean looks difficult at times.

Balls and strikes aren't that tough, IMO. I felt I could focus on the strike zone and simply decide if the pitch passes through it. It's tougher at the upper level of course, due to the speed and movement of the ball. Also, a few missed pitches don't normally impact the outcome.

 

[bmayuc]

Clear fix for the college game, use NBA rule of thumb: if there is ANY doubt, offensive player gets the benefit. That will make floppers think twice for sure.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[dsturdy5]

Or go by the letter of the law. A flop is an unsportsmanlike technical. Simple.


*Never going to happen.

 

[bmayuc]

Something has to change tho we can all agree. Between the grabbing/Flopping/block/charge has compressed the game, removed any semblance of post game, and makes some of these games completely unwatchable. Hoe many USf games do we have to sit through before we can a foul when it is s foul.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[stamfordhusky]

They should change the rule (or maybe better put, enforce it properly) and only reward the charge if the defender is set before the offensive players goes into his last step. When it's one of those bang-bang plays, there's no way for the player driving to the basket to avoid the contact. They should train the refs that if it looks like the defender just got there in time, call that a block. If it's that close, the defender is sliding in there the last moment giving the offensive player no chance of avoiding the contact.

What you are asking for is a complete change to the rule - NOT for the refs to enforce it properly. As written, there is no requirement for a defender to be set before the offensive player goes into his last step. In fact, the rule specifically says a player does not have to be set at that point. The only requirement is that the defender must be set before his opponent leaves his feet.

 

[mauconnfan]

The way officials are taught now, and likely for a long time, has been to "ref the defense," in other words, don't watch the offensive players, watch the defensive players. If you do that, the block/charge call becomes a lot easier.

The semi-circle under the hoop has hurt this call a bit too. A lot of guys are looking at the position of the defensive player and not looking at if he was set. When you are a secondary defender, the rulebook says you must take "time and distance" into account. The primary defender does not need to take these into account when setting up to take a charge.

The block shot results in foul because of body contact. Many times, too, you will see a clean block up high but a foul called on a second defender who got him on the way up, push from behind, etc.

Rule of thumb on this one: Take things in the order they happen. If a player makes contact with the ball and THEN the body, no call. If it is body then ball, call it. A lot of times this is bang/bang but if you can point out where the contact was, you're in good shape.

The most missed call, I have seen lately, has been a guy hit on the arm on a jump shot from about 12-15 feet. The officials have a lot to work through out there and are constantly moving but too many guys don't "work the arc" as they say. They don't move out onto the court to get a better view of perimeter shot, they just stand there and have a bad angle at jump shots. A lot of this comes from the "trail" guy who will need to bust his arse down the court to be the lead on the change of possession. Too many guys are aware of this and hang out too far back towards half court to give themselves a head start in case of a fast break.

While I agree and certainly never refereed in anything as "official" as you, the offensive players intent sometimes needs to be taken into context. If he's driving wildly out of control with no idea of his next move there's a good possibility he has no body control and deserves a charge or a no call. Having said that the defender still needs to "get there" for the most part but advantage defender. It's a tough call, real tough but the single most thought if I were an official is "was the defender playing defense or bailing himself out"....many Duke defenders rely on the play some under the basket where defense is NOT being played.....the circle has helped a bit there because if you're under a guy who has already beaten everyone to the rim you are no longer playing defense and deserve NOTHING at all for a call.

Tough call but I think the refs who played the game have a better chance of getting it right rather than those who are going by the book!

 

[dogpause]

Or go by the letter of the law. A flop is an unsportsmanlike technical. Simple.


*Never going to happen.

I used to think that too, but in order to protect yourself from injury, you have to give way easily when taking a charge. Coaches teach this, and I think it's appropriate and necessary. You can't hold your ground or you risk serious injury. The offesnive player will likely get hurt too.

 

[Prezidint]

Charge/Block will never be an easy call - don't blame the refs.

The attitude that, "the refs never played the game, so they don't . . ." is complete crap.

How about this, for most of the bitchers and whiners - YOU never reffed a game. Get out there with a guy as quick as Ryan Boatright slicing into the lane and a very quick defender moves over, and you don't have the benefit of the high-angle cameras from multiple angles plus replay from 3 directions, plus slo-mo.

Also, I think it should be a technical foul if you flop. Seriously. Clean that crap up.

Finally, I think how a charge should be called depends on how you want to see the game played. I always, as a defense-oriented player, despised the notion that you have to be "set" to draw a charge. It puts the defender at a huge disadvantage, because not only do you have to beat the guy with the ball to the spot, you then have to plant 2 feet and be still? Silly.

If I drafted the rule, I would base it on a first to the space analysis; you get to the spot first, it's your spot, regardless of what your friggin feet are doing.

As it is now, the rules favor guys crashing to the rim constantly - I hate that style of play, because it encourages guys with the ball to "seek" contact and crash into guys on purpose, and it's constant whistle and free-throw shooting.

I think the game would be more enjoyable if offensive players had to play with more finesse.