Charge happy refs

[jorge34]

This crap has to stop in college basketball, and these buffoons they hire to officiate games gotta stop calling ridiculous offensive fouls.

It is not good defense, and teaching the flop has gotten flat out embarrassing.

 

[aceboon]

been this way forever, i'll never understand the huge gap between the charges are called in college vs. the NBA

 

[mauconnfan]

been this way forever, i'll never understand the huge gap between the charges are called in college vs. the NBA

In the NBA they won't give up their body that's the difference. You kidding it's rare you see a player give up his body in the NBA to make a play while kids want to make plays for their team in college. The charge is a great defensive play if used correctly and should be in every teams arsenal. Our Huskies should take note of it as they chicken out a lot and let people fly through the middle unscathed. "Flopping" is one thing making a play is another. Out of control drivers to the basket need to be stopped somehow!!

 

[willie99]

the drive to the hole from above the FT can be hard to call, but the worse ones are when somebody is backing down under the rim and the defender chooses to sit on his and gets rewarded. Absolute joke, and that ref should be removed from the game and sent home.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I despise the flop as much as anyone.

I equally despise offensive players looking at the ground and driving in to the lane out of control.

 

[aceboon]

In the NBA guys take charges all the time, difference is they're not planting themselves directly under the hoop because they know they won't get the call with the circle(college game just implemented this, but it's smaller than the NBA circle) and they also don't recklessly dive underneath players already airborne like an idiot like you see so many college players do and get rewarded for it. College players shouldn't be applauded for "giving their body up" and diving under players, that is how you wind up with De Sean Butler situations.

In the NBA they won't give up their body that's the difference. You kidding it's rare you see a player give up his body in the NBA to make a play while kids want to make plays for their team in college. The charge is a great defensive play if used correctly and should be in every teams arsenal. Our Huskies should take note of it as they chicken out a lot and let people fly through the middle unscathed. "Flopping" is one thing making a play is another. Out of control drivers to the basket need to be stopped somehow!!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

In the NBA guys take charges all the time, difference is they're not planting themselves directly under the hoop because they know they won't get the call with the circle(college game just implemented this, but it's smaller than the NBA circle) and they also don't recklessly dive underneath players already airborne like an idiot like you see so many college players do and get rewarded for it. College players shouldn't be applauded for "giving their body up" and diving under players, that is how you wind up with De Sean Butler situations.

+1000

Referees reward defenders for diving under airborne players but penalize defenders for playing good fundamental defense. So now everyone dives under airborne players. I would like to see refs actually give defenders the vertical cylinder like they are supposed to, and cut way back on the charge calls. It would be a better game.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

I know there's a Compeition Committee that meets every year and discusses things like this. My guess is they thought the charge circle would make things better but it clearly hasn't. The call just isn't officiated properly.

It is isn't a clear charge (with the defender's feet set and squared to the offensive player), it has to be called a block. How can there possible be a "no call" when there is a head-on collision between an offensive and defensive player? The defender impeding the progress of the offensive player, unless that defender already established position, is the very definition of a foul.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I know there's a Compeition Committee that meets every year and discusses things like this. My guess is they thought the charge circle would make things better but it clearly hasn't. The call just isn't officiated properly.

It is isn't a clear charge (with the defender's feet set and squared to the offensive player), it has to be called a block. How can there possible be a "no call" when there is a head-on collision between an offensive and defensive player? The defender impeding the progress of the offensive player, unless that defender already established position, is the very definition of a foul.

This would make things worse. My whole point was too much of the game is revolving around getting the block/charge call. It seems like every third possession you see some guard hurtling out of control into the paint fishing for a foul and defenders jumping into his way to draw a charge. How many times do you see both players jump up from a collision and look at the refs? I am ok with no calls. Basketball is a contact sport.

How about not rewarding offensive players for out of control drives and not calling the charge when a player dives in front of an oncoming player? I almost wish there was a standard of "was the sole purpose of the play (offensive or defensive) to draw a foul?" that referees would use to not reward players who were only fishing for a foul call. Play the game.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

This would make things worse. My whole point was too much of the game is revolving around getting the block/charge call. It seems like every third possession you see some guard hurtling out of control into the paint fishing for a foul and defenders jumping into his way to draw a charge. How many times do you see both players jump up from a collision and look at the refs? I am ok with no calls. Basketball is a contact sport.

How about not rewarding offensive players for out of control drives and not calling the charge when a player dives in front of an oncoming player? I almost wish there was a standard of "was the sole purpose of the play (offensive or defensive) to draw a foul?" that referees would use to not reward players who were only fishing for a foul call. Play the game.

Well this leads to another debate - are players really driving to the basket fishing for a foul or are they driving to the basket to try and score?

My argument is if a player beats his man off the dribble and gets in the lane looking to score at the rim, a weakside defender purposely getting in his way and causing a collision has to be a foul on the defender - unless that defender had already established defensive position and the offensive player is just trying to run him over. Calling more blocks in this situation (the correct call) would, in theory, discourage teams from sliding in at the last minute to pick up a cheap charge.

 

[TheRogers]

In the NBA they won't give up their body that's the difference. You kidding it's rare you see a player give up his body in the NBA to make a play while kids want to make plays for their team in college. The charge is a great defensive play if used correctly and should be in every teams arsenal. Our Huskies should take note of it as they chicken out a lot and let people fly through the middle unscathed. "Flopping" is one thing making a play is another. Out of control drivers to the basket need to be stopped somehow!!

+1

I could see why NBA players avoid this. There are millions at stake if an injury occurs. College kids want to be in a position to make those millions so they do anything to make them look successful. Unless ofcourse you are regarded as a sure lottery pick then you're essentially in NBA mode and minimize injury.

It was mentioned earlier that the more annoying charge play is the backing down type. Couldn't agree more. Typically the ones where there is incidental contact and the reaction is overly exaggerated (yes our beloved Kemba was guilty of this) is the one that gets to me. Although this suggestion brings in another level of subjectivity, I wish the officials incorporate flopping as a consideration when making the call. Those that played and watched basketball for sometime now know a legitimate charge when they see it. There will be some plays that will be close, in that case it should be called a charge if the defense did establish position. But for those plays where someone like Bazz would drive to the hoop and somehow graze a Sullinger-type player and send him flying across the floor, I wish that would be called a block 100% of the time.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well this leads to another debate - are players really driving to the basket fishing for a foul or are they driving to the basket to try and score?

My argument is if a player beats his man off the dribble and gets in the lane looking to score at the rim, a weakside defender purposely getting in his way and causing a collision has to be a foul on the defender - unless that defender had already established defensive position and the offensive player is just trying to run him over. Calling more blocks in this situation (the correct call) would, in theory, discourage teams from sliding in at the last minute to pick up a cheap charge.

It's a team defensive game. If a player gets to the spot first, the driving offensive player needs to either shoot or pass. Too often these guys crash into the lane out of control. As for backing in, that's the same. To me the flopping comes because a lighter player who cannot hold back a bigger player that is backing in, can never get the call unless they fall down. The reality is, if Giffey is standing still and Royce White backs into him hard enough to make him slide his feet, that's an offensive foul. But one that is never called. My first would be to call travels and stop allowing everyone the absurd three steps on the way to the rim. I saw it repeatedly all weekend. They call traveling on big guys who slide one shoe, but guards can bounce and then take three steps? If you made them dribble, that drive in traffic would be more risky.

 

[nomar]

I'm on the anti-charge side of this. Aceboon said it well.

A genuinely taken charge is a great defensive play, obviously. That's about 10% of all charge calls these days, unfortunately. It's like soccer, refs rewarding acting skills.

Scott Martin, Ryan Kelly and the like are losers. There's nothing brave about "giving up your body" like that -- they're collapsing before the contact happens.

It's not brave. It's the opposite. I'll take a player who plays actual defense over a flopper any day.

 

[nomar]

It's a team defensive game. If a player gets to the spot first, the driving offensive player needs to either shoot or pass. Too often these guys crash into the lane out of control. As for backing in, that's the same. To me the flopping comes because a lighter player who cannot hold back a bigger player that is backing in, can never get the call unless they fall down. The reality is, if Giffey is standing still and Royce White backs into him hard enough to make him slide his feet, that's an offensive foul. But one that is never called. My first would be to call travels and stop allowing everyone the absurd three steps on the way to the rim. I saw it repeatedly all weekend. They call traveling on big guys who slide one shoe, but guards can bounce and then take three steps? If you made them dribble, that drive in traffic would be more risky.

Royce White backing down Niels Giffey is not an offensive foul (unless he hooks or elbows or violently drives with his shoulder). It's a stronger player exploiting his strength over a guy who has no business guarding him in the low blocks.

 

[hoopsknowitall]

Blame it all on Shane Battier......

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well this leads to another debate - are players really driving to the basket fishing for a foul or are they driving to the basket to try and score?

My argument is if a player beats his man off the dribble and gets in the lane looking to score at the rim, a weakside defender purposely getting in his way and causing a collision has to be a foul on the defender - unless that defender had already established defensive position and the offensive player is just trying to run him over. Calling more blocks in this situation (the correct call) would, in theory, discourage teams from sliding in at the last minute to pick up a cheap charge.

But it would encourage players to just go hurtling into the paint fishing for a foul call.

To your first question, I am pretty sure everyone on this board can tell the difference between penetrating to score and flying into the paint hoping for a bailout call.

 

[Kitaman]

Taking a charge and flopping are 2 different things.

When someone has a football in their hands and is hell-bent (and out of control) on getting to the basket then taking a charge is in order.

But if someone backs you down or is going up strong and you 'flop' for the sake of getting an oscar that should be not be called.

 

[caw]

Royce White backing down Niels Giffey is not an offensive foul (unless he hooks or elbows or violently drives with his shoulder). It's a stronger player exploiting his strength over a guy who has no business guarding him in the low blocks.

All depends. Oriakhi was called a few times for backing down a player without hooking, throwing an elbow or violently driving his shoulder into the player.

That particular play was not an offensive foul, Royce basically just put his butt into Giffey and knocked him over.