CBSSports: ranking college basketball coaches of all time

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Are you referencing my post? Mine wasn't an argument. Just kind of a question as food for thought as compared to the other great coaches of his generation who were all at high level programs at a much younger age.
No no not at all, I was talking about Nelson’s.
 
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No way i put Squid and Nose pick ahead of Slick Rick and i have Rupp and Dean ahead of Knight. Calhoun and Knight are a toss up. I can see having either or ahead of the other. That being said no one in their right mind puts Calhoun #1 but he is without a doubt the #1 program build and has the greatest run to a title (2011) of all time. Prove me wrong.
 
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Something to ponder about Calhoun. What if he had gotten his start at UConn at a younger age? He wasn't hired at UConn until he was 44 years old. Krzyzewski started at Duke when he was 33. Roy Williams started at Kansas when he was 38. Bob Knight started at Indiana when he was 31. Dean Smith started at UNC when he was 30. Boeheim turned 32 early in his first year at Syracuse.

All those coaches were at places they could win big at and win national championships at much earlier than Calhoun. So while Calhoun started his coaching career at Northeastern at 30, he spent 14 seasons there. He won a lot of games there, especially after the first 7 years, but he wasn't going to go to Final Fours or win national championships at Northeastern.

Give Calhoun another 6-12 years at UConn and how much more success would he have had? More Final Fours and more championships? Winning begets winning so I think his success at UConn would have started earlier and continued longer if he started there when he was younger.

Which begs another question. Why didn't his college coaching career at UConn start earlier? Many reasons. First off, he didn't graduate AIC until he was 26. He didn't start coaching in college until he was 30. He really didn't start winning a lot at Northeastern until he was 37. It also seems to me that he was hurt by not going to college at an established power. He had no real connections coming from D2 AIC. Most of the other top coaches in his era had connections from their college playing careers. Krzyzewski played for Knight at Army which helped his career get going. Williams played for Smith at UNC. Boeheim played at Syracuse which helped his career get going.
Huh so Reggie Lewis must've saw something in Calhoun to play for him at Northeastern. Don't know the story of Reggie Lewis recruiting someone fill me in please. Cause after that JC made run in Tournament and got to coach in this tiny fishbowl called Storrs.
 
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No, when you rank coaches like this, you go by the facts. It’s pointless to add fake variables.

Why? Why can't one recognize that, based on results, John Wooden stands by himself, and at the same ask the unanswerable hypothetical as to whether Wooden would have been likely to have had the same success at UConn that Calhoun had?
 
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Why? Why can't one recognize that, based on results, John Wooden stands by himself, and at the same ask the unanswerable hypothetical as to whether Wooden would have been likely to have had the same success at UConn that Calhoun had?
Because it’s silly and never ending. On the flip, what if Calhoun never got Rip Hamilton? Many dominoes and scenarios would be different and we wouldn’t have 4 chips. But he did and we do have that. It’s just a weird thing to do to try and elevate JC and at the same time relegate these other coaches.
 
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Because it’s silly and never ending. On the flip, what if Calhoun never got Rip Hamilton? Many dominoes and scenarios would be different and we wouldn’t have 4 chips. But he did and we do have that. It’s just a weird thing to do to try and elevate JC and at the same time relegate these other coaches.

Couldn't disagree more. I agree that your level of "what ifs" is silly. Every person's, let alone coach's, career is shaped by hundreds of events. But when you rank coaches, you also have to recognize that college basketball programs aren't video games. You can't take control of Rider and make it a perennial top ten program. What Urban Meyer accomplished at Utah is probably more impressive than what he accomplished at Florida. So the only way to fairly measure coaches is not just to look at the bottom lines, but to look at where they accomplished it.
 
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Roy Williams will forever be overrated. JC, I'm ok with where he is but have no doubt his building of the Husky program will be the best ever in college anything. He's only a slight step below K (maybe) and as Hooper said with his info, only because he had 10 years or so less than others in the "major" program. Starting at 44 yrs of age with a Yankee Conference program in the Big East and doing what he did will forever be the #1 build job ever! Not sure where that puts him on the list or if it even moves him up but it's a fact!
 
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Respect among your coaching peers is important to these guys--Perhaps more than the media's opinions of your career.

Fact: Coach K has been quoted as saying Calhoun-coached teams were consistently among the toughest matchups he had in his career. Players on the floor and coaching on the sidelines.

Guessing JC is satisfied with that opinion over most others.
 
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Couldn't disagree more. I agree that your level of "what ifs" is silly. Every person's, let alone coach's, career is shaped by hundreds of events. But when you rank coaches, you also have to recognize that college basketball programs aren't video games. You can't take control of Rider and make it a perennial top ten program. What Urban Meyer accomplished at Utah is probably more impressive than what he accomplished at Florida. So the only way to fairly measure coaches is not just to look at the bottom lines, but to look at where they accomplished it.
I agree building a program up is a very worthwhile consideration, but the fact is that’s not looked at and weighed as much as wins, championships, players produced, league titles, etc. JC is certainly a much better coach in terms of philosophy and motivation than some that are higher on the list, but these lists go by accomplishments.
 
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I think Bob Knight and Roy are overrated. I can agree with Wooden, K, and probably Dean Smith.
Really Knight’s easily in my top 5
The guy won at Army when it had a 6’4 or 5 height maximum.
He had some great players but certainly no where near the talent level of a later Wooden or Dean Smith. Ask Calhoun the coaches he would be most concerned with and it would be Knight and Wooden at their peak.
Knight created great teams with good players , that separates good from great coaches. Indiana has had one Big 10 title since he left
he had 10, 3 NC , 5-6 FF. He
lost in FF to UCLA and Walton who was unstoppable in college.
Calipari is not top ten and certainly not a better coach than Pitino. who got a mediocre PC team to FF.
Given equal talent and a few weeks of practice Rick‘s team either sweep or win 9 out of 10.
Calipari is top 10 snake oil salesmen BB coach no. Boeheim as much as I hate Cuse
Deserves some recognition I don’t know about top ten as I can name a bunch of great coaches and attaching numbers get fuzzy.
 

nelsonmuntz

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I agree building a program up is a very worthwhile consideration, but the fact is that’s not looked at and weighed as much as wins, championships, players produced, league titles, etc. JC is certainly a much better coach in terms of philosophy and motivation than some that are higher on the list, but these lists go by accomplishments.

You are asserting your criteria as if it is universally agreed upon. It isn't.

Building a program from scratch is an accomplishment that almost none of the other coaches have.

The problem with Wooden is that A) he cheated on a scale that would embarrass Calipari, and B) the format of college basketball was so different back then that it is hard to compare to today's game. Anyone that can't appreciate that is not intelligent enough to participate in this discussion.

"Who is the greatest coach of all time" is by definition a subjective analysis, since they didn't all get to coach in a tournament with exactly the same players. If we are going solely by numbers and nothing else matters, then Auriemma wins easily.
 
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Huh so Reggie Lewis must've saw something in Calhoun to play for him at Northeastern. Don't know the story of Reggie Lewis recruiting someone fill me in please. Cause after that JC made run in Tournament and got to coach in this tiny fishbowl called Storrs.

Reggie was the 6th man on the Dunbar team, Calhoun saw him early, offered, Reggie didn't sign, then got a lot of high major attention and Reggie went to NU because they'd be there from the beginning - something like that.

Was there when he was there - hell Fogel was my geology teacher - we'd play and and Reggie, Wes, Andre, Kevin would be playing at the same time in Cabot - was great to watch in that setting. I vaguely remember Reggie burnting the hell out of his hand cooking fries in West Apts. - but when I say vague it is vague.
 
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I think Bob Knight and Roy are overrated. I can agree with Wooden, K, and probably Dean Smith.
Knight is a curious case. I don’t put him top 10 but others might. He was very good and won championships with good talent he got to play great. But the last part of his career was more about histrionics than great basketball. I thought the game changed but he didn’t keep up.

Boeheim is a very good coach who lasted a long time. Not top 10 in my book though.

Don’t think he is top 10 but I would look at someone like Frank McGuire who won the NIT at St John’s when it was more prestigious and built UNC into a major power.

Roy is a great coach. He belongs. Same with Dean Smith. I think Wooden is #1 unquestionably. And unquestionably Iba. When Red Auerbach talks about how much he learned from you you kind of belong.

I’d put Phogg Allen there because he basically invented the job.

Calipari? Uh no! Pitino is another question. He is a terrific coach. Thought his best job was the year he brought a very eh PC team to the Final Four. But the slime is just too great and he had a title taken away for cheating. Gotta keep you off the list.

And really how you can not include Jay Wright is beyond me. Probably because he isn’t “colorful”. He just wins.
 
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By any standard, Wooden is one of the biggest cheaters in history. His players received cash, cars, apartments, clothes, airline tickets and it's even alleged that one booster payed for abortions for players girlfriends. This allowed UCLA to buy the best players in the country.

Yes Wooden was a good coach and dispenser of folksy wisdom. But his teams won because they were far and away the most talented group of (bought and paid for) players in college basketball history.
 
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Respect among your coaching peers is important to these guys--Perhaps more than the media's opinions of your career.

Fact: Coach K has been quoted as saying Calhoun-coached teams were consistently among the toughest matchups he had in his career. Players on the floor and coaching on the sidelines.

Guessing JC is satisfied with that opinion over most others.
Boeheim called JC building this program as the greatest coaching job in the history of college basketball.
 
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I think you guys are being unfair to Roy Williams. Since he came to UNC, he and K each won 3 national titles, but Williams won 9 ACC championships to 3 for K, and finished ahead of him in the standings 11 or of 18 seasons.
 
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I think you guys are being unfair to Roy Williams. Since he came to UNC, he and K each won 3 national titles, but Williams won 9 ACC championships to 3 for K, and finished ahead of him in the standings 11 or of 18 seasons.
IMO, Ol' Roy always took too much gruff. Dagnabit, he was a good coach!
 

CL82

Unfinished Business
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Boeheim called JC building this program as the greatest coaching job in the history of college basketball.
True and then he supposedly indicated that he didn't want UConn in the ACC.
 
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No way i put Squid and Nose pick ahead of Slick Rick and i have Rupp and Dean ahead of Knight. Calhoun and Knight are a toss up. I can see having either or ahead of the other. That being said no one in their right mind puts Calhoun #1 but he is without a doubt the #1 program build and has the greatest run to a title (2011) of all time. Prove me wrong.
So I guess I am not in my right mind.
 

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