CBS Sports Top 30 Wings

[Dogdeacon]

The definition of a wing is not consistently defined. Sometimes the 2Gs and SFs are combined but often they are split out.

Depending on the system, their roles can be eerily similar or quite dissimilar. In JC's system, there's not that much of a difference other than the bigger of the two defends the opposing team's SF, has more rebounding responsibilities on offense and plays below the foul line more often than the 2G.

I like it when they split them out though giving you two pools of players to rank. But it does pose a problem where to list 2/3 combos such as Lamb.

I think I agree with Sportsman5 that wing more often means a SF though it can also be a SF that also plays the 2. And that when you get to the NBA the definition drifts more heavily to SF. Example Ray Allen was a wing player at UConn but became strictly a SG in the NBA vs Paul Pierce who plays the 2 and 3 in the NBA and is therefore a NBA wing.

However my point or question was that I thought Austin Rivers is a SG/PG = not wing vs Lamb SG/SF = wing. No one has commented, am I wrong about Rivers?

Maybe I just assumed Austin Rivers was a PG because Doc was a PG. And for that matter maybe I assume the Curry's are SG's because Dell was an NBA SG (although I think Dell played wing at VTech

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Rivers will spend some time at all 3 perimeter spots for Duke, PG, SG, and SF. He's a SG with plus skills. I think he's a little overrated myself, he can shoot you both into and out of a game. We'll see.

 

[Walker11]

Barnes has a beautiful stroke, dare I say almost Ray Allen-esque. His size is prototype NBA small forward. He also handles the ball very well for his size. These are all offensive skills. He's not much of a defender and is only an OK rebounder, but the media doesn't care about those things.

Barnes does not have a good handle and showed no ability to create for himself. There is a reason his production improved dramatically when Marshall was inserted in the lineup because he now was able to be a spot up shooter.

He has perfect size for the 3 and seemed to get a lot stronger in the off season. He looked very big in the Heels Midnight Madness that I caught a bit of. He is a very normal athlete for NBA standards, though.

Some draft people like ESPN's Chad Ford have Barnes rated as a better prospect than Drummond. Picking Barnes over Drummond will get a GM fired.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Barnes does not have a good handle and showed no ability to create for himself.

This is one thing you will see this year. He's not going to remind anyone of Kemba, but he'll have the green light to take it to the hole this year, especially in transition. UNC is going to try to run a lot this year. Expect a lot of secondary break action with their bigs, it's classic Roy Williams.

 

[Walker11]

I don't want to on the kid too much because he is supposed to be a real 1st class kid in all ways but he showed a weak handle last year and unless his 3 day stint at the CP3 camp transformed his ball handling, he will still be mediocre in that regard. He will score in transition but UNC always runs. He scored in transition last year.

 

[aceboon]

I agree with walker11, Barnes really isn't a guy you want to isolate and have him try to break someone down off the dribble but he can pull up for jumpers and is a great spot up guy. Barnes's weaknesses in that regard is why I compare him to Deng, they're the same kind of player to me.

 

[Walker11]

Barnes reminds me a Stephen Jackson with his head on straight

 

[M_Funkhauser43!]

UNC is going to try to run a lot this year. Expect a lot of secondary break action with their bigs, it's classic Roy Williams.

Or as Roy Williams likes to call it, "40 Minutes of Heck."

 

[jfuchs91]

I agree with walker11, Barnes really isn't a guy you want to isolate and have him try to break someone down off the dribble but he can pull up for jumpers and is a great spot up guy. Barnes's weaknesses in that regard is why I compare him to Deng, they're the same kind of player to me.

I think this assessment is spot on and Deng is a great comparison. Barnes is certainly a very good player and will be one of the best in the country this year, but those projecting him to be a star in the NBA are way off. He doesn't have the elite athleticism and handle, in my opinion.

Maybe it's just because they haven't been "exposed" by a year of college ball yet, but I think Drummond and Davis are easily the two best NBA prospects in college this year. And considering that Davis is a little bit of a "tweener", I think Drummond is the #1 pick if he doesn't fall flat on his face. This situation actually reminds me a lot of Oden vs. Durant a few years back. Not that their respective careers will end up the same way, but the elite big man prospect (Oden/Drummond) vs. the tall, lanky guy with good perimeter skills (Durant/Davis).

 

[Kitaman]

If Barnes were at UConn would people feel and post the same way? Just curious.

 

[jfuchs91]

If Barnes were at UConn would people feel and post the same way? Just curious.

Don't get me wrong, Barnes is a fantastic player and will likely be a top 3-5 NBA draft pick. He's a very smooth player with good size, a GREAT shot, and by all accounts works his ass off. He's someone who's easy to root for and it's always hard to count out players with a great work ethic.

That being said, I've heard people compare him to a young Kobe and that's just insane. Barnes is a good athlete, but lacks ELITE athleticism that the top NBA SF's possess. On top of that, his ball handling skills are merely adequate. He can't create his own shot at this point. That can certainly change (look at someone like Rudy Gay), but it is a limitation at this point. I think what makes Barnes such a good prospect is that he's already pretty polished and should be NBA ready from the get-go. And if he has a good PG to feed him the ball in good positions, I think he can be an all-star player a couple years. But, from what I've personally seen of him, I don't think he has that "dominate the league" type potential of a Drummond or Davis. I think the Luol Deng/Danny Granger mold fits him, which is still very good in its own right.

 

[aceboon]

If Barnes were at UConn would people feel and post the same way? Just curious.

Feel what way, that he has weaknesses? I like Barnes but he does have his weaknesses and its not bashing him to point them out, its no different than what I do with Roscoe now and Stanley before him as far as what they lacked in their overall offensive games. I guess its just a little more vocal in regards to Barnes because he was billed as being this complete player and was drawing Kobe comparisons because of his overall polish(although I think this had alot to do with his media savvy and demeanor as well), but his first year exposed his glaring weaknesses.

 

[Deadrody]

Barnes has a beautiful stroke, dare I say almost Ray Allen-esque.

You dare not. You don't compare a one year college player to a first ballot HOFer that holds the NBA record for three pointers.

 

[selles]

I don't want to on the kid too much because he is supposed to be a real 1st class kid in all ways but he showed a weak handle last year and unless his 3 day stint at the CP3 camp transformed his ball handling, he will still be mediocre in that regard. He will score in transition but UNC always runs. He scored in transition last year.

I agree. Comparing to former UNC guys, I see him as a bigger, stronger Joe Forte. He doesn't have the dominant athleticism of a Carter or Stackhouse, but he's a better shooter.

The guy we really ought to be concerned about is Marshall, who strikes me as a better version of Ed Cota. Who was the real key back in the day. Man, do I hate me some Ed Cota.

 

[huskyharry]

Barnes reminds me a Stephen Jackson with his head on straight

The next Quentin Richardson or nick Anderson or Dennis Scott or Antoine Walker?
Potential top three pick?...not if I were the GM

 

[Dogdeacon]

I agree. Comparing to former UNC guys, I see him as a bigger, stronger Joe Forte. He doesn't have the dominant athleticism of a Carter or Stackhouse, but he's a better shooter.

The guy we really ought to be concerned about is Marshall, who strikes me as a better version of Ed Cota. Who was the real key back in the day. Man, do I hate me some Ed Cota.

Really? I see Marshall as a slow version of Deron Williams* or maybe going into the wayback machine a poor man's Mark Jackson. Marshall gets it done, but it ain't pretty and it'll be interesting if UNC is really committed to running with the slowest player on the team playing point. Not saying I don't like his game, but I also like Heinz ketchup. Nowadays if you can choose gotta go organic or Chris Paul.

* After mediocre first game Deron Williams had 24pts 10 assists in 2nd Turkey game.

 

[Walker11]

Kendall Marshall = Marcus Williams

 

[tzznandrew]

Really? I see Marshall as a slow version of Deron Williams* or maybe going into the wayback machine a poor man's Mark Jackson. Marshall gets it done, but it ain't pretty and it'll be interesting if UNC is really committed to running with the slowest player on the team playing point. Not saying I don't like his game, but I also like Heinz ketchup. Nowadays if you can choose gotta go organic or Chris Paul.

* After mediocre first game Deron Williams had 24pts 10 assists in 2nd Turkey game.

Frankly, don't they have to? Roy Williams never has much of a half-court offense. He's masterful at primary and secondary breaks, and all his teams that have won at Kansas and UNC have done so with running. They tend to lose with the other team can slow them down (see Syracuse and the zone, 2003) or just out athlete them (see Kansas and their athletic lineup, 2008).

 

[DogMania]

Barnes does not have a good handle and showed no ability to create for himself. There is a reason his production improved dramatically when Marshall was inserted in the lineup because he now was able to be a spot up shooter.

He has perfect size for the 3 and seemed to get a lot stronger in the off season. He looked very big in the Heels Midnight Madness that I caught a bit of. He is a very normal athlete for NBA standards, though.

Some draft people like ESPN's Chad Ford have Barnes rated as a better prospect than Drummond. Picking Barnes over Drummond will get a GM fired.

I tend to agree with you. It's not that Barnes has a poor handle, but nothing exceptional and has yet to show a vast array of scoring off the dribble. That's not to say he hasn't improved and will improve his ability to score from all over the floor. But based on what I saw last season there's a lot of room for growth. One thing is for sure, the kid can really light it if via the J when he has it going.

 

[DogMania]

I think I agree with Sportsman5 that wing more often means a SF though it can also be a SF that also plays the 2. And that when you get to the NBA the definition drifts more heavily to SF. Example Ray Allen was a wing player at UConn but became strictly a SG in the NBA vs Paul Pierce who plays the 2 and 3 in the NBA and is therefore a NBA wing.

However my point or question was that I thought Austin Rivers is a SG/PG = not wing vs Lamb SG/SF = wing. No one has commented, am I wrong about Rivers?

Maybe I just assumed Austin Rivers was a PG because Doc was a PG. And for that matter maybe I assume the Curry's are SG's because Dell was an NBA SG (although I think Dell played wing at VTech

It's hard to say where Austin fits at the college level and eventually at the next. He's got the size and skill that will allow him to play the 1 through 3 in college. I think he'll see time at all 3, but I have a feeling dook's greatest need for him to fill will be at the 2G. At the next level, he'll end up a 1 or 2, though I'm guessing if he shows he can run a team and pass like a PG, he's going to end up an NBA PG since that's a hard position to fill with size and skill.

For example Derrick Rose has the size and game to play the 1 or 2, probably even the 3 with his strength, but he's at his best with the ball in his hands.

Rivers has a lot of filling out to do, and could find a lot of time at the wing as a catch-and-shooter/slasher type player at both levels. He's just a tough one to slot until you see how Rat Face decides to use him.

 

[selles]

Really? I see Marshall as a slow version of Deron Williams* or maybe going into the wayback machine a poor man's Mark Jackson. Marshall gets it done, but it ain't pretty and it'll be interesting if UNC is really committed to running with the slowest player on the team playing point.

That's what I mean with the Cota reference though. There was nothing impressive about Cota in a vacuum. Not a great athlete and a pretty bad shooter too. But for whatever reason he was great at making a team go. Marshall seems very similar. He doesn't look like much, but that team was night and day after Drew left. Part of it was other players maturing but the biggest part of it was Marshall taking control.

 

[Dogdeacon]

That's what I mean with the Cota reference though. There was nothing impressive about Cota in a vacuum. Not a great athlete and a pretty bad shooter too. But for whatever reason he was great at making a team go. Marshall seems very similar. He doesn't look like much, but that team was night and day after Drew left. Part of it was other players maturing but the biggest part of it was Marshall taking control.

I agree, they were shockingly better immediately after Marshall took the reigns and he'd win games or make shots in ugly ways yet he often found a way given limitations. I hated Mark Jackson at St. John's (that point at the rim free throw thing made your blood boil) but once he got to the NBA and was successful I learned to like his game.
Cota was a different style of player but I know what you mean. Probably some other fans thought of Taliek that way or maybe even Khalid (other team's fans used to love to point out that Khalid had no NBA shot and I/UConn fans believed he'd be at least a good backup. Whoops).

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree, they were shockingly better immediately after Marshall took the reigns and he'd win games or make shots in ugly ways yet he often found a way given limitations. I hated Mark Jackson at St. John's (that point at the rim free throw thing made your blood boil) but once he got to the NBA and was successful I learned to like his game.
Cota was a different style of player but I know what you mean. Probably some other fans thought of Taliek that way or maybe even Khalid (other team's fans used to love to point out that Khalid had no NBA shot and I/UConn fans believed he'd be at least a good backup. Whoops).

To be fair about Khalid, as a rookie he was a good backup. He made the All-Rookie game over the Bulls' first round draft pick, Jamal Crawford. He had a decent season, but the Bulls needed to invest their time in the younger, certainly more athletic (although more erratic) Crawford, and so, as a second round draft pick, El-Amin was cut.

He ended up having a great international career though.