Carolyn Ducharme an upgrade at No.33? | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Carolyn Ducharme an upgrade at No.33?

jchuskie said:
Many times Geno told KLS to be more aggressive or takeover games. Was waiting for her to do so in both final 4 games vs ND but she never did. That will not happen with Caroline if the situation presents itself.
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See, this is the crux of it. Lou missed the Final Four of her freshman year and then never got back to the National Championship game. So people have seen her play in big games where UConn came up short.

And then she's gone on to a pretty good pro career but has yet to have a breakout WNBA season. So people have seen and dissected her flaws there, too.

Meanwhile, Caroline just scored 28 against a top-5 team. From there, it's easy to write off all her flaws and assume she'll never struggle. To just pronounce that she will not fail to takeover Final Four games, easy as that.

By the way, check the box scores of those ND final four games. Lou played well in both.
 
Conndog said:
Fantastic defense starting with Stewie and MoJeff; having a super quick lockdown defender for guard is such a blessing. And Stokes could spell Stewie if need be and play defense just as well.
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And Moriah could be right in a players face knowing, someone was back there to erase anything that got by Moriah.
 
Caroline plays smartly. She has high basketball IQ and her off ball movement is really good. She is getting better for each game. Caroline probably is the best player in the starting lineup. I can't wait to see her playing with Paige.
 
This thread made me watch KLS college clips, so thanks for the unintended Xmas gift! KLS was special. I mean when you average 20 a game at UConn u know ur pretty special. But she was a probably a better passer than what she gets credit for as she averaged close to 4 assist multiple seasons. Also I kept thinking that she was a lot bigger than Caroline, like her size allowed her to get the basket and get to spots in the mid-range where she could be on balance and pull up. But it appears she is 6'3 while Caroline is listed at 6'2 so not too big of a discrepency. Physically she got a lot stronger over the course of her 4 years.
Looking at her clips also made me think back to something Geno said early in the season. He was talking about how certain players only feel comfortable in certain spots and he's not used to that. He was used to having players who can make plays all over the court. You look at some of the bigs 12-18, Gabby, Phee, KLS, Azura,Stewie they all could play the 4 and even spot minutes at the 5 and they all had great ball skills. So I get what he was saying. I think eventually Caroline will be able to play the 3 and the 4.
 
Orangutan said:
See, this is the crux of it. Lou missed the Final Four of her freshman year and then never got back to the National Championship game. So people have seen her play in big games where UConn came up short.

And then she's gone on to a pretty good pro career but has yet to have a breakout WNBA season. So people have seen and dissected her flaws there, too.

Meanwhile, Caroline just scored 28 against a top-5 team. From there, it's easy to write off all her flaws and assume she'll never struggle. To just pronounce that she will not fail to takeover Final Four games, easy as that.

By the way, check the box scores of those ND final four games. Lou played well in both.
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Actually, she scored 24 I believe. If you are questioning the too early comparison of Caroline to KLS, I’m with you 100%!
 
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Cuango said:
Actually, she scored 24 I believe. If you are questioning the too early comparison of Caroline to KLS, I’m with you 100%!
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Thanks, you're right.

I misremembered the box score/conflated Caroline's game witht the talk about Christyn's 28 point game against ND her freshman year.

24 pts, 8 reb are the correct totals for Caroline v. Louisville.
 
Ducharme may be the kind of player that will be a streaky scorer. At least right now. I think she will be a lot more than that as time goes on. The nice part is that Fudd is the best shooter on the team so Ducharme is not critical to UConn's offense. Being 6'2" she can shoot over a lot of guards and has enough guard skills to go by slower defenders.

The more games I watch the more I see teams struggling to score. A lot of that is good defense but so is poor shooting. UConn's shooters are sitting. That's why I'm not concerned about their scoring down the road. Fudd & Bueckers are possibly the 2 best shooters in wcbb. I don't care how big the defense is. People are going to remember SCar's inside power as the marginot line of wcbb. UConn will just use rockets from a distance and go right over them.
 
There are so many things that are impressive about Ducharme but she will find stronger defenders on her going forward. Other teams will pay more attention to her. The thing is though that I don't think it will stop her. If they come out to stop the 3 she will keep driving by them. If she can play against their poorest offensive player she can cheat for rebounds more. She will often face opponents who are much shorter and she can post them up or beat them off the dribble enough to get to the rim and she finishes well. If anything, she hasn't got a roll all year. Her field goal percentage should go up in my opinion. Her efficiency overall should improve over time. She's STILL JUST A BEGINNING FRESHMAN essentially playing her 4th or 5th real game as the earlier stints were just a few minutes a game. In those opportunities she's scored 14 twice and 24 once I think.

When Paige comes back it should only open things up for everyone. And Caroline is capable of hitting 3 pointers at a higher percentage. She was a knock down 3 point shooter in high school, with terrific range and shot speed. Her percentage seems to go way up when she doesn't have to hurry. Chances are her efficiency is going to improve folks and that is terrific news.

The match ups against Depaul should be good I would think, for her. For her and Christyn. Evina generally puts up solid numbers against most teams. Depaul is going to want to run and we will need some sub guards in that game. It should be a great game to watch.
 
Alydar said:
Ducharme may be the kind of player that will be a streaky scorer. At least right now. I think she will be a lot more than that as time goes on. The nice part is that Fudd is the best shooter on the team so Ducharme is not critical to UConn's offense. Being 6'2" she can shoot over a lot of guards and has enough guard skills to go by slower defenders.

The more games I watch the more I see teams struggling to score. A lot of that is good defense but so is poor shooting. UConn's shooters are sitting. That's why I'm not concerned about their scoring down the road. Fudd & Bueckers are possibly the 2 best shooters in wcbb. I don't care how big the defense is. People are going to remember SCar's inside power as the marginot line of wcbb. UConn will just use rockets from a distance and go right over them.
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Hmm, "the marginot line of wcbb"? I certainly hope so. Remember the marginot line was a complete failure, designed to refight WWI. How did that work out?

Childhood said the Caroline Ducharme was probably the best player in the starting lineup. This might be a bit of a stretch, but the last few games certainly showed Caroline Ducharme has a great upside.
 
pvdoggy said:
It is truly amazing that people can come to this kind of conclusion (based on 2 games that she is forced into action) even though I am sure that Caroline will be a very good player at Uconn. I am afraid to see some of the same people throwing her under the bus if she goes into a slump the next 3-4 games. Just think of what people were saying about CW after the first ND game and what they are saying now.
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Just wait until poor Caroline has an average or poor game. Human beings do that, especially freshmen ones. Then she’ll have tire tracks on her back from being thrown under the bus while whoever has a good game will be the next superstar.
 
donalddoowop said:
And how do they compare after their first three freshman games? Is the comparison to a four- year star or a three-game played freshman?
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Why compare to the first three games...why not through the first eight games? Besides Samuelson on a team with Stewart, Tuck, Jefferson, Nurse and Williams (starters), did they really need Samuelson to score?

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mbr33ct said:
Why compare to the first three games...why not through the first eight games? Besides Samuelson on a team with Stewart, Tuck, Jefferson, Nurse and Williams (starters), did they really need Samuelson to score?

View attachment 72076
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Outstanding research! These numbers are amazingly close. Even their minutes in the first 8 games are similar. (I presume you are showing 8 games, even though UConn has played 9 games this year, because Caroline Ducharme did not get into the South Carolina game?)

So Lou has many more assists and many fewer fouls, probably because she was playing almost entirely on the perimeter, whereas Caroline Ducharme has mixed it up between outside and inside. Lou also has more steals, but Caroline Ducharme leads by 5-0 in blocks.

The fact that Lou shot only 27% from 3 in her first 8 games, and still became a renowned 3-point shooter before she graduated, could tell you something about judging players by their early performance.

All told, I think this is an auspicious statistical debut for Caroline Ducharme.
 
Some of us projected Caroline to be a starter level player this year before she had played a minute of basketball in college. It has nothing to do with what she did the game before. As with all sorts of sports, people are sometimes amateur analysts. Just as Nike projected Le Bron to be a superstar before he had played a minute of NBA basketball, giving him a roughly $90 mil shoe contract, people with some knowledge of the sport can project players given the data available to them. Of course any of us can be wrong but at least some of us projected her to be what she appears to now to be and at least some of us expect her to have some bad games going forward. It happens to everyone eventually. Caroline appears to have a very intelligent and mature approach to her game and I don't expect her to get overly discouraged. She has already overcome huge obstacles in her development with solid success.
 
TeamFirst! said:
Some of us projected Caroline to be a starter level player this year before she had played a minute of basketball in college. It has nothing to do with what she did the game before. As with all sorts of sports, people are sometimes amateur analysts. Just as Nike projected Le Bron to be a superstar before he had played a minute of NBA basketball, giving him a roughly $90 mil shoe contract, people with some knowledge of the sport can project players given the data available to them. Of course any of us can be wrong but at least some of us projected her to be what she appears to now to be and at least some of us expect her to have some bad games going forward. It happens to everyone eventually. Caroline appears to have a very intelligent and mature approach to her game and I don't expect her to get overly discouraged. She has already overcome huge obstacles in her development with solid success.
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Dogs Reaction GIF by MOODMAN

I wonder if those that were projecting Caroline as a starter had advance knowledge (data) of Paige's and Aubrey's injury and if those same people are projecting that Caroline will remain a starter once they return from her injury? BTW the initial Adidas offer to LeBron was larger than the Nike offer.
 
mbr33ct said:
Why compare to the first three games...why not through the first eight games? Besides Samuelson on a team with Stewart, Tuck, Jefferson, Nurse and Williams (starters), did they really need Samuelson to score?

View attachment 72076
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It really probably should be Samuelson's first 9 games to Ducharme's 8 - since they were both healthy and on the bench for all of the games. The fact Caroline Ducharme didn't get in one of them is immaterial. Samuelson happened to start the ninth as Stewart was out for that game. The team played #7, 23, 3, and 11 in those first 9 games in 2015, and have played 23, 1, 24, and 6 this year so fairly comparable.

The assist to TO numbers and steals/blocks are interesting. But to some degree that is also a reflection of teammates and how games are played - easier to get assists with players shooting well and streaking on fast breaks than when they are struggling and the team is playing more half court.

Again, Caroline has played one good game against one quality opponent as a freshman - would like a larger sample size before making any comparisons - we already know how Lou turned out as a freshman and as a 4 year college player - very well! Caroline has all of that in front of her. Calling her an 'upgrade' at this point suggests the poster expects her to be something more than a 3 time AA on a team that lost 2 games over her last 3 regular seasons and went 21-3 in post season play. She has already lost more regular season games than Lou lost in her career! :eek::cool:
 
I really, really like Caroline. I'm happy she's blossoming.

But, truth be known, she's not my favorite #33.






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She will never, ever be better than José Canseco.
 
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Orangutan said:
Thanks, you're right.

I misremembered the box score/conflated Caroline's game witht the talk about Christyn's 28 point game against ND her freshman year.

24 pts, 8 reb are the correct totals for Caroline v. Louisville.
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In the Army we would call it a "BRAIN FART", everyone does it once in a while, even me. Merry Christmas @Orangutan.;)
 
It's not like one good game puts you in the starting lineup if everyone is back this year, although next year when the seniors are gone I expect her to start. This season a few more good games will force Geno to use her even if the other players returned.

She would be the obvious choice to back up Evina when she returns to the 3, and could also see time at the 2 and occasionally at the 4, but mainly be a regular in the rotation, big game or not.
 
She should start even when Paige comes back. If she doesn't start I bet she gets starter level playing time. By the time March is here she is one of the go to players who can help us win. I'd start her over Azzi right now and couldn't a strong case be made for her over Evina and Christin already? She's a key player. I get that it would be very disruptive to bench a senior who might be a top 10 draft pick but she might help the team more. She probably doesn't start when Paige gets back but I bet she could get drafted right now if she were eligible. She could draw out opposing bigs if she were a forward and someday that might come in handy as well. If we are behind, I'd consider going with Dorka or Liv and 4 guards, including Caroline late in a game.
 
I expect that later this season UConn's backcourt is going to be Bueckers & Fudd, two of the best outside shooters in wcbb. They may not both start but they will play together a lot. It's nice to have another great shooter ready to come in when one of them is resting.
Ducharme showed she was capable of getting hot and that alone is nice but she also showed that she is not afraid to take shots she likes, that she actually looks for good shots. A great attitude on the court. All business. Tough.
 
Alydar said:
I expect that later this season UConn's backcourt is going to be Bueckers & Fudd, two of the best outside shooters in wcbb. They may not both start but they will play together a lot. It's nice to have another great shooter ready to come in when one of them is resting.
Ducharme showed she was capable of getting hot and that alone is nice but she also showed that she is not afraid to take shots she likes, that she actually looks for good shots. A great attitude on the court. All business. Tough.
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You make a good point! One of the things I like best about Caroline is that she is unafraid, (in fact eager) to take shots whenever she is open! Too many of our players in recent years seem to be afraid to take the big shot even if they are open. Caroline is not like that. She seems to know that being afraid to fail simply guarantees you a safe mediocrity and she’s not looking to be mediocre.
 
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So we’re just gonna change her name? Henceforth just call me Dmoggie!
 
ClifSpliffy said:
coach played her like 40 minutes, thinking 'ok, let's see what u got.'
after the game, coach be like 'hot dang!'
she's a keeper.
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Ykpppp
LwrcasefaN said:
As a freshman, Lou wasn't driving or doing a lot of ball handling. In a short period of time...Ducharme figured out how she could get playing time and separate herself from other guards...which was to be willing to come off the 3 point line and drive. This team really needed more people to drive and force defenses to rotate. Her length also separates her.
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you need to consider who the teammates are and what is your job
like staying out side and help keep the lanes open with one team and going to the hoop with another.I just don’t get why at this stage there is a need to compare a. Current player vs an ex player.
 
The whole argument is pointless. Caroline has played very well since she got the chance, and shows every indication of continuing to do so, which is all that really matters.
 
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