Cancel the Olympics?

[Wilderness]

If a tree falls in the woods, and there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound.

I think it's "If a man speaks and there is not woman there to hear him is he still wrong?"

 

[Plebe]

Well I seem to be going against the spirit of the room here (or at least of those speaking up), but I want the Olympics to go forward.

Much has been made of the recent rise in Japan's infection rate, but comparatively speaking, Japan's infection rate is still dwarfed by that of the United States and other countries where athletic competitions have been ongoing.

According to Coronavirus (COVID-19) Cases - Statistics and Research , Japan's infection rate stands at 24.61 daily new confirmed cases per million people, compared to 104.92 in the US, 122.92 in France, and 677.55 in the UK.

If we haven't been spending the past 8-9 months clamoring for the NCAA, NBA, NHL et al. to suspend all competition here — where the infection rate is currently four times higher than in Japan — it seems inconsistent to call for cancelling the Olympics.

 

[bschwartz]

My cancellation argument can be summed in six words:
Katie Lou Samuelson and Asia Durr

 

[JordyG]

Without saying one way or the other, I had expected to hear a long list (exponential growth) of athletes in the COVID protocols but I have not? Am I missing something?

Well it seems that over 80% of the athletes in the Olympic village have already been vaccinated. 99% of the infections reported are among those who have not been vaccinated. So that leaves about 2200 athletes that are at risk. Those are the people that have thrown the dice, and those are the people who should be worried. Now, the number of severe breakthrough infections among vaccinated populations is about 0.003%, so among the vaccinated in the village that number is vanishingly low. So whether we see among the unvaccinated a nasty outbreak only time will tell.

This of course is not a response to you. As for whether we should cancel these games I'm quite ambivalent. Yes these athletes are at risk. Yes, this new variant seems to love those in the 20-40 years old range very much. Yes, many of those who live where the games are to be held are not in favor of the games continuing. But these athletes have toiled, most in silence, for all there lives for this moment. Have sacrificed income, family, friends, and personal lives for their sport. To take this away from them when it is just within their grasp, once again, would be cruel and perhaps, unjust. I'm leaning toward having the games continue.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I believe it frequently happens for team sports such as baseball, basketball, soccer and hockey. But I don’t remember it being quite this early. In the case of softball, they are playing all the games on one field, which happens to be the same field they will play the baseball tournament on, once the softball tournament raps up next week.

Actually, they will move to a baseball stadium nearer Tokyo after opening ceremonies, apparently. Still will be the baseball venue as well.

My wife and I don't quite get it - if softball is so popular in Japan (as it is) - then why could they not use a softball stadium. I get the idea that the baseball and softball group presented a combined bid - but as you note they don't overlap, so - back to my point - we don't quite get it.

 

[UCFBfan]

Without saying one way or the other, I had expected to hear a long list (exponential growth) of athletes in the COVID protocols but I have not? Am I missing something?

I think the list will grow once all of the athletes arrive in the Olympic Village. Many are still not there. Last I read, there have been 60 reported cases in the village. That includes staff, athletes, and anyone else in there. Not sure how many athletes are actually there right now but a total of 11,000 athletes will, at some time, be in the Olympic Village. The list will unfortunately grow.

The ones I really feel for are the ones who are vaccinated yet still get a positive result. The new variant is having a higher success rate of breaking through the vaccine. However, the vaccine is protecting those who have it from serious Illness. That doesn't mean they aren't eliminated from the Games though....

 

[Cuango]

Vaccination is not protection for others. It is for the protection of the individual who is vaccinated. If Japan was at 0.00000000000% vaccinated, it would not affect the protection of those who have the antibodies (do to having contract CoViD-19 in the past 6 months, nor those who have been vaccinated with an effective vaccine, nor those with a robust immune system with NO co-morbigities.

By the way, FEAR is a huge immuno-surpressant. If you are afraid, don't go! If you have a tendency to talk yourself into fear over time, don't go.

Fear NOT!!! Go Huskies!!! Stay strong (particularly your immune systems)!!!!!

While this is true, it is astounding to me that Japan’s vaccination number is 8%!

 

[Skeets]

I think it's "If a man speaks and there is not woman there to hear him is he still wrong?"

I don't know, ask Jazz, Littlemin, et. al.

 

[Skeets]

My cancellation argument can be summed in six words:
Katie Lou Samuelson and Asia Durr

Did Katie Lou test positive before heading to Japan? If so, what does this have to do with the Olympics?

 

[HCCForever]

I

Did Katie Lou test positive before heading to Japan? If so, what does this have to do with the Olympics?

It appears that she tested positive.

USA 3x3 women's basketball player Katie Lou Samuelson out of Olympics after positive COVID-19 test

Less than a week from the debut of 3x3 basketball, the Seattle Storm forward announced she is out of the Olympics despite being fully vaccinated.

www.usatoday.com

 

[bschwartz]

Did Katie Lou test positive before heading to Japan? If so, what does this have to do with the Olympics?

Covid is getting worse every day and the number of people dying is on the rise. It is already starting to look like the Olympics will be a super spreader event. Athletes may be fine taking the risk for themselves, but they can give it to others who can give it to others. It is heartbreaking what Asia Durr is going through, and we don't even know what KLS is dealing with. I don't want anyone to get sick much less a beloved Husky. I don't think I will be able to watch.

 

[Bald Husky]

I think the list will grow once all of the athletes arrive in the Olympic Village. Many are still not there. Last I read, there have been 60 reported cases in the village. That includes staff, athletes, and anyone else in there. Not sure how many athletes are actually there right now but a total of 11,000 athletes will, at some time, be in the Olympic Village. The list will unfortunately grow.

The ones I really feel for are the ones who are vaccinated yet still get a positive result. The new variant is having a higher success rate of breaking through the vaccine. However, the vaccine is protecting those who have it from serious Illness. That doesn't mean they aren't eliminated from the Games though....

60 cases already? That is ridiculous! All athletes should have been vaccinated period. When everybody arrives the real super spreader will soon be upon us. I don't think the cardboard beds that are in the village will discourage the "international friendship" that has been occurring for decades between participants. The host nations always provide protection materials to the athletes, but this is a whole different ballgame. I hope these athletes are smart enough to think about that, but then again, these are mostly kids and they don't always make the right decision. I pray that they do.

 

[Kaizen]

"People just want their lives back, and not the Olympics,"
says Shiho Fukuda, a Tokyo-based photographer and film director. "Most people have had to sacrifice because of these Olympics, and this has been going on for a long time. Of course the athletes say, 'We should do it,' but the people in general are concerned."

Olympics in 2021 spur frustration in Tokyo: 'People just want their lives back'

As COVID-19 cases rise ahead of the Olympics in Tokyo, so do frustrations among the city's residents -- some of whom are wondering why these Games seem to matter more than their safety.

www.espn.com

 

[robnelli]

Unless the tree falls in a vacuum, the sound is transmitted through the air. Even if the tree falls in a vacuum, the sound is still transmitted through the ground - simple physics. Vibrations that are tarnsmitted = sound.

Sound is the impression that the bones in your ear places upon your brain based upon the vibrations they receive. If there are no ears to receive the vibrations created from a fallen object ( in or out of a vacuum) there will be no “sound”.

 

[pvdoggy]

So the American beach volleyball player who tested positive after arriving in Tokyo was sent home to Hawaii. Question: how did they send him home without some sort of quarantine?

 

[Dokey]

The only sensible thing to do is to postpone until 2022, then change the cycle to 2026, 2030,etc. so what if it is same year as Winter Games.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Sound is the impression that the bones in your ear places upon your brain based upon the vibrations they receive. If there are no ears to receive the vibrations created from a fallen object ( in or out of a vacuum) there will be no “sound”.

Sound can be detected by instrumentation that detects vibration. Human ears need not be present for sound to be generated. It's a physics thing.

 

[CL82]

Unless the tree falls in a vacuum, the sound is transmitted through the air. Even if the tree falls in a vacuum, the sound is still transmitted through the ground - simple physics. Vibrations that are tarnsmitted = sound.

In my first day in a philosophy class at UConn, the professor asked the infamous "if a tree falls in the woods..." question. I looked up at him and said yes. He said but can you prove it? I said sure and at his invitation did a math style proof on the board with the givens that objects can't occupy the same place and that air occupies space, as does the tree, and that sound was the movement of air. The professor stared at it for a good what seemed liked a good a five minutes and then when someone in the class said "Uh professor?" He said "Class dismissed" and kept staring at the board. People looked at me like "WTH dude" and I was like "He shouldn't have asked if he didn't want the answer."

(I may have broken him since the next class we had a different professor who taught the class for rest of the semester. Good times.)

 

[eebmg]

In my first day in a philosophy class at UConn, the professor asked the infamous "if a tree falls in the woods..." question. I looked up at him and said yes. He said but can you prove it? I said sure and at his invitation did a math style proof on the board with the givens that objects can't occupy the same place and that air occupies space, as does the tree, and that sound was the movement of air. The professor stared at it for a good what seemed liked a good a five minutes and then when someone in the class said "Uh professor?" He said "Class dismissed" and kept staring at the board. People looked at me like "WTH dude" and I was like "He shouldn't have asked if he didn't want the answer."

(I may have broken him since the next class we had a different professor who taught the class for rest of the semester. Good times.)

You gave a philosophy professor a math/physics style explanation.
Very courageous

 

[ClifSpliffy]

forests? sounds? this question was answered years ago. dopey philosophers, they never know what's going down, and they can't dunk.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

While this is true, it is astounding to me that Japan’s vaccination number is 8%!

The majority of the Japanese people in their homeland of Japan are wholistic and natural health people. They refuse to have untested or incompletely tested medicine that is not made from natural sources, AND being vaccinated is completely voluntary. I would suspect that most of those '8% of the population' who are vaccinated in Japan are less than third generation Japanese nationals who accepted the risk of the vaccine.

Keep in mind the three major vaccines are still emergency use declarations, and on the normal process of getting vaccines certified, the phase 2 trials are not completed, and phase 3 most likely cannot be completed due to so many of the possible 'control' population have either previously had the virus (and recovered or have shifted to "longhaul" such as Asia Durr {keep praying for her full recovery to full strength & endurance}} or have been vaccinated.

 

[eebmg]

I fully expect this thread to be lively long after the Olympics.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

In my first day in a philosophy class at UConn, the professor asked the infamous "if a tree falls in the woods..." question. I looked up at him and said yes. He said but can you prove it? I said sure and at his invitation did a math style proof on the board with the givens that objects can't occupy the same place and that air occupies space, as does the tree, and that sound was the movement of air. The professor stared at it for a good what seemed liked a good a five minutes and then when someone in the class said "Uh professor?" He said "Class dismissed" and kept staring at the board. People looked at me like "WTH dude" and I was like "He shouldn't have asked if he didn't want the answer."

(I may have broken him since the next class we had a different professor who taught the class for rest of the semester. Good times.)

AWESOME!!!! I would have high fived with you at the end of the first class AND the start of the second class!

Nicely done! Physics trumps Philosophy every time!!!

 

[dogged1]

Sound is the impression that the bones in your ear places upon your brain based upon the vibrations they receive. If there are no ears to receive the vibrations created from a fallen object ( in or out of a vacuum) there will be no “sound”.

Sound can be detected by instrumentation that detects vibration. Human ears need not be present for sound to be generated. It's a physics thing.

Physics vs metaphysics, perspective wins again

 

[CL82]

You gave a philosophy professor a math/physics style explanation.
Very courageous

Not at all. Now giving a math professor a philosophy style explanation... that takes courage.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

I think it's "If a man speaks and there is not woman there to hear him is he still wrong?"

Much more practical question...

 

[ClifSpliffy]

physics is math.
math is our friend.
metaphysics is a crock, much like 1 hour martinizing.
cosmo kramer is the greatest philosopher, ever.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Physics vs metaphysics, perspective wins again

Submariners tend to take sound seriously.

It is not a philosophical discussion, but rather a matter of life and death. 4 dimensional water space [time being the fourth dimension] is a physics domain, philosophers need not apply as they would end up killing their crew by talking them to death instead of "fighting the ship."

"Less talk, and a lot more action" as the song goes {pretty sure that that song was talking about something else entirely.....}

 

[CL82]

Physics vs metaphysics, perspective wins again

It's really definitional. Is sound the movement of air or the impact of that movement on a human ear drum? The latter is kind of silly standard since we know animals can hear, but that is how the question is traditionally posed. I used the former definition as a given in my proof, so the proof was largely irrelevant. The givens decided the issue. The professor wasn't sophisticated enough to spot it otherwise he would challenged me on the givens.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

It's really definitional. Is sound the movement of air or the impact of that movement on a human ear drum? The latter is kind of silly standard since we know animals can hear, but that is how the question is traditionally posed. I used the former definition as a given in my proof, so the proof was largely irrelevant. The givens decided the issue. The professor wasn't sophisticated enough to spot it otherwise he would challenged me on the givens.

I concur with your assessment of your professor, and I am in the same 'boat' as David Hume [273-ish years ago], except that I am NOT in favor of burning books NOR cancelling discussion:

In the 18th century, David Hume took a strong position, arguing that all genuine knowledge involves either mathematics or matters of fact, and that metaphysics, which goes beyond these, is worthless. He concludes his Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding (1748) with the statement:

If we take in our hand any volume [book]; of school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion. Hume, David (1748). An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding. §132. - see wikipedia for more dissenting opinions; this reference is good enough for me...

But my question would be is metaphysics illusion or dillusion?

I am pretty sure technology being the application of science has moved forward by controlled experiment [those things that don't work do not gain much market share without government intervention] rather than by thinking philosophically about it. Brainstorming has its place at the beginning [however metaphysical process disrupts true brainstorming with follow on questions as ideas are "thrown out into the 'creative' space], but then action (experimentation: a.k.a. research & development [R&D budgets, etc.]) must take the stage...