Can the Huskies be too big??

[Bone Dog]

It is a thought experiment whether UConn would have beaten South Carolina for recent national championships without the injuries — I think they would have just as UConn teams have beaten Tennessee teams in the past.

I'm totally with you on this one. The most apparent case was in the 2022-23 regular season when we played 6 and almost beat SC. It was a one possession game in the final minute. And I won't even go into the absurd missed call on that inbounds play that should have given UConn the ball. The more important fact is that we shot 52% and held them to 39%. They won the rebounding battle by 12, though mostly on o-boards and putbacks. And even with that they only squeaked past us. That was a totally winnable game, and with just a healthy Azzi, I believe we'd have won going away. You don't even have to dream of having another big to match up better. Just Azzi would do it. And if Paige had been on the floor, too, I think it wouldn't even have been a close game. Paige Azzi Nika and Lou would have torched them.

[And an aside: this season, with healthy veterans Paige Azzi Caroline Aubrey Ash KK Ice Kaitlyn and a couple of the new kids, I think we win the rematch. It might even be a statement game. They'll still be bigger, but that won't be enough.]

I'm less confident about the NC game the year before. That one we had Paige and Azzi, but lacked Dorka -- and Azzi and Liv had the flu -- but whatever. The point is that you can't only have bigs, and which I think you'd agree with, a team also needs to have a balanced back court with quickness and scoring punch.

 

[meyers7]

It hasn't been the height the last few years, it's been the injuries.

21/22 - 3 players 6-5, a 6-4, a 6-3, a 6-2 (but Bueckers, Fudd and Griffin injured)
22/23 - 2 players 6-5, 2 players 6-3, 2 players 6-2, (but Bueckers, Fudd, Ice injured) (and El Afly on the bench)
23/24 - 2 players 6-5, 2 players 6-3, 2 players 6-2 (but Griffin, Ducharme, Fudd, Patters, El Afly injured)

 

[hoophuskee]

It is a thought experiment whether UConn would have beaten South Carolina for recent national championships without the injuries — I think they would have just as UConn teams have beaten Tennessee teams in the past. Still, it doesn’t hurt to have Bigs attuned to Geno’s system that will directly counteract South Carolina’s strength.

UCONN has had some unparalleled bad luck. IMO it does not have anything to do with Geno evolving. All that was needed was not just some rotten bad luck.

1--- He gets Camara in 17-18 a bruiser transferring from KY but she is hurt her entire career once she transferred.
2--- He gets Azura Stevens the next year then she leaves after 1 year instead of staying a 2nd.
3-- He gets a verbal from Charli Collier but then a disastrous hurricane hits Texas and she pulls her verbal late in the process.
4-- He expects he is getting Boston but she commits to SoCar last minute.
5-- He gets Dorka to provide some height for 2 seasons - her 1st season she gets hurt before having to play SoCar.
6-- He recruits two of the Better Power Forwards, Ice and Ayanna, (In Ice’s case also a Center) and they both get hurt.
7--- He recruits Jana and she gets hurt.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

I'm totally with you on this one. The most apparent case was in the 2022-23 regular season when we played 6 and almost beat SC. It was a one possession game in the final minute. And I won't even go into the absurd missed call on that inbounds play that should have given UConn the ball. The more important fact is that we shot 52% and held them to 39%. They won the rebounding battle by 12, though mostly on o-boards and putbacks. And even with that they only squeaked past us. That was a totally winnable game, and with just a healthy Azzi, I believe we'd have won going away. You don't even have to dream of having another big to match up better. Just Azzi would do it. And if Paige had been on the floor, too, I think it wouldn't even have been a close game. Paige Azzi Nika and Lou would have torched them.

[And an aside: this season, with healthy veterans Paige Azzi Caroline Aubrey Ash KK Ice Kaitlyn and a couple of the new kids, I think we win the rematch. It might even be a statement game. They'll still be bigger, but that won't be enough.]

I'm less confident about the NC game the year before. That one we had Paige and Azzi, but lacked Dorka -- and Azzi and Liv had the flu -- but whatever. The point is that you can't only have bigs, and which I think you'd agree with, a team also needs to have a balanced back court with quickness and scoring punch.

Agree. Just one addendum: I think Geno has gotten comfortable with deep rosters filled with HS recruits, topping-off from the portal as needed. It gives him more flexibility and is needed to compete with more and different super teams each year.

Regarding the 2021-2022 National Championship game:

• Paige hasn’t regained her NPOY self;
• Azzi had the stomach flu;
• Dorka became unavailable at the start of the tournament during COVID season when Shea had to self-isolate;
• Liv reaggravated her groin injury;
• South Carolina had a relatively mishap-free tournament unlike UConn;
• Henderson had a fluky spectacular game — a known Achilles heel of Geno’s teams;
• I still think UConn would have prevailed had the team been fully intact for the entire year.

 

[Bone Dog]

Regarding the 2021-2022 National Championship game:

• Paige hasn’t regained her NPOY self;
• Azzi had the stomach flu;
• Dorka became unavailable at the start of the tournament during COVID season when Shea had to self-isolate;
• Liv reaggravated her groin injury;
• South Carolina had a relatively mishap-free tournament unlike UConn;
• Henderson had a fluky spectacular game — a known Achilles heel of Geno’s teams;
• I still think UConn would have prevailed had the team been fully intact for the entire year.

I still marvel at that entire 2021-22 season. It was inspiring and heartbreaking by turns. I often wonder about the lessons it holds for us. At the beginning of the season Paige comes back from summer ankle surgery and looks spectacular, like she’s ready for a second NPOY. That Arkansas game looked like a warning to the rest of D1 — she barely takes a shot in the first quarter but ends the game with 30+ points.

Against ND, it’s one of those bruising games and with the usual ND flopping, until the second half when Paige has had enough and takes the game over, and for good measure pins a couple fouls on Mabrey and Citron as a sort of warning: “cut the crap.” And then in the final minutes her knee collapses. It was like the entire team deflated. In the Ga Tech game they looked confused and we were left wondering if they would be able to pull a winning season together. That’s how devastating Paige’s injury was to everyone. She’d showed us how spectacular she could be and then it was all snatched away.

Then Evina and Caroline and Nika and Azzi took turns carrying the emotional load, and by the time Paige comes back Geno can even joke about Paige needing to earn minutes in practice. And she looks alternately fragile and made of steel as she thumps Indiana NC St and Stanford one after another. I almost wept watching the NC St game. What couldn’t Paige do?

But Dorka breaks her wrist, and Caroline’s hip is becoming more of a problem every week, Liv and Azzi are weakened, and it begins to look like the team is melting away right under Paige’s feet. The girl is practically held together by string and kinesio tape and yet she manages to carry the team to the NC game. It was the most incredible season ever. No way the team does any of that without her, but there was only so much she could do.

When I think of what next season could look like, I think about how the team seemed that year before the ND game. Anything seemed possible then, as it does now. Sure, there were question marks then as now. But the core elements were in place just like now.

But now I worry less about injuries than about legacy. Paige has one more season, maybe two, to put her mark on the team Azzi KK Ash Sarah Morgan Allie and Jana will take the team into the future. Kelis Gandy and (maybe) Lara may not have the same chance to play with Paige. And after that, it will be down to Ash and KK and Sarah and Morgan to set the example. The future looks bright, but also a little unnerving. I am really looking forward to seeing how the next few seasons unfold. This is also one reason the fixation on getting more bigs seems misguided to me.

 

[hoophuskee]

Agree. Just one addendum: I think Geno has gotten comfortable with deep rosters filled with HS recruits, topping-off from the portal as needed. It gives him more flexibility and is needed to compete with more and different super teams each year.

Regarding the 2021-2022 National Championship game:

• Paige hasn’t regained her NPOY self;
• Azzi had the stomach flu;
• Dorka became unavailable at the start of the tournament during COVID season when Shea had to self-isolate;
• Liv reaggravated her groin injury;
• South Carolina had a relatively mishap-free tournament unlike UConn;
• Henderson had a fluky spectacular game — a known Achilles heel of Geno’s teams;
• I still think UConn would have prevailed had the team been fully intact for the entire year.

Not sure what you mean by "Geno has gotten comfortable with deep rosters." He hasn't had a deep roster in years. Also, Geno plays his best. Always has and always will regardless of a deep roster or not. Dawn is being overrated that she plays such a deep roster- yes she uses it more than Geno but also plays her stars and limits her bench. There two guard Paopao and Raven averaged about over 32 minutes per game in close games.

What has been lacking is that their projected superstars have been hurt. Along with additional players bbeing hurt as teh psoter meyers has posted. If SoCar lost their center this past year like UCONN did in loing their best player in 2022-2023 (Paige) along with their 2nd best player being highly impacted with injury, regardless of whatever depth they had, they weren’t winning a title.

The super teams are super teams because of their superstars. You need some depth but not "deep" depth.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

Not sure what you mean by "Geno has gotten comfortable with deep rosters." He hasn't had a deep roster in years. Also, Geno plays his best. Always has and always will regardless of a deep roster or not. Dawn is being overrated that she plays such a deep roster- yes she uses it more than Geno but also plays her stars and limits her bench. There two guard Paopao and Raven averaged about over 32 minutes per game in close games.

What has been lacking is that their projected superstars have been hurt. Along with additional players bbeing hurt as teh psoter meyers has posted. If SoCar lost their center this past year like UCONN did in loing their best player in 2022-2023 (Paige) along with their 2nd best player being highly impacted with injury, regardless of whatever depth they had, they weren’t winning a title.

The super teams are super teams because of their superstars. You need some depth but not "deep" depth.

What I mean by Geno becoming comfortable with deep rosters is exemplified by the 2024-25 roster and

• his willingness to add Kaitlyn from the portal when he already has multiple point guards;
• his willingness to explore going to 15 slots with the possible addition of Raegan Beers / Kiki Iriafen; and
• his willingness to pursue multiple consecutive 3-4 quality player classes augmented by transfers.

All these recent willingness goes against his historical tendencies:

• he rarely goes over 12 scholarships (the last 14-player roster was 2000-01);
• some of his scholarships are clearly for role glue players who would be content with less minutes while being on scholarship and being on a top program learning the science and art of basketball while playing with people who would become life-long friends; and
• he frequently alternates with large classes.

Having been burned by injuries, transfers (Megan, Paige and Azzi classes), going all-in on certain players (Boston, Collier), lack of development of certain players and missed recruitment of certain players (Evina), Geno probably realized he had to change his approach. The portal probably made this change easier to implement and also necessary as he now has to have a roster that can deal with more and different super teams each year.

As you have pointed out, Geno has said he likes to play core people to prepare them for March. So there is seeming inherent tension in his seeming new approach:

• But he also feels accountable to his players who have done everything he has asked (e.g. Qadence in a comment saying he should have found her more minutes last year);
• Jana whose father remarked that her game has significantly improved just by participating in UConn practices without getting into games, is current proof that Geno’s players will develop the best version of themselves by the time they graduate;
• Because of bonding-by-fire experiences of the past few years, all players, even the incoming freshmen such as Sarah who said Geno can use her wherever, will understand Geno’s minutes distribution decisions and Geno may feel he does not need to self-censor himself with the number of scholarships he offers.

 

[hoophuskee]

What I mean by Geno becoming comfortable with deep rosters is exemplified by the 2024-25 roster and

• his willingness to add Kaitlyn from the portal when he already has multiple point guards;
• his willingness to explore going to 15 slots with the possible addition of Raegan Beers / Kiki Iriafen; and
• his willingness to pursue multiple consecutive 3-4 quality player classes augmented by transfers.

All these recent willingness goes against his historical tendencies:

• he rarely goes over 12 scholarships (the last 14-player roster was 2000-01);
• some of his scholarships are clearly for role glue players who would be content with less minutes while being on scholarship and being on a top program learning the science and art of basketball while playing with people who would become life-long friends; and
• he frequently alternates with large classes.

Having been burned by injuries, transfers (Megan, Paige and Azzi classes), going all-in on certain players (Boston, Collier), lack of development of certain players and missed recruitment of certain players (Evina), Geno probably realized he had to change his approach. The portal probably made this change easier to implement and also necessary as he now has to have a roster that can deal with more and different super teams each year.

As you have pointed out, Geno has said he likes to play core people to prepare them for March. So there is seeming inherent tension in his seeming new approach:

• But he also feels accountable to his players who have done everything he has asked (e.g. Qadence in a comment saying he should have found her more minutes last year);
• Jana whose father remarked that her game has significantly improved just by participating in UConn practices without getting into games, is current proof that Geno’s players will develop the best version of themselves by the time they graduate;
• Because of bonding-by-fire experiences of the past few years, all players, even the incoming freshmen such as Sarah who said Geno can use her wherever, will understand Geno’s minutes distribution decisions and Geno may feel he does not need to self-censor himself with the number of scholarships he offers.

He apologized to Q then a game or two later he didn't play her much again; am I right about that? I'm too lazy to check right now.

If he didn't have all these injuries, do you think he would be going to 15 high quality scholarship players? He did say recently that the best 5 are going to play. Would like your opinion-- (and anyone else)-- you think over the next few years if his players were healthy that he might go back to 12 (or 13 max)? What I'm suggesting is that might these last few seasons be more of an anomaly because for example Azzi, Caroline, Ayanna and even now with Aubrey - all four have missed significant time over the years that he can’t trust what he has to be "available" whicc is hwy he is going ot 15? And Jana and Ice are questionable too.

 

[Bone Dog]

But he also feels accountable to his players who have done everything he has asked (e.g. Qadence in a comment saying he should have found her more minutes last year)

Did Qadence actually say something like this? I hadn't seen it.

I Absolutely hope he does find her more minutes, and that she develops more as a defensive player. All the freshmen looked lost on defense occasionally at the beginning of the season. But Ash and KK seemed to figure it out by February, and Ice by the BE tournament.

 

[yhun89]

Did Qadence actually say something like this? I hadn't seen it.

I Absolutely hope he does find her more minutes, and that she develops more as a defensive player. All the freshmen looked lost on defense occasionally at the beginning of the season. But Ash and KK seemed to figure it out by February, and Ice by the BE tournament.

Nah, the poster was referring to Geno’s comment ABOUT Qadence. He says in the post Iowa conference I think that he should’ve used her more. Q has never verbally come out and said anything like that lol.

 

[JellyBean]

Personally, I look forward to the first post on the Boneyard saying “we need smalls!”

And you know it will happen....LOL!!

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

Did Qadence actually say something like this? I hadn't seen it.

I Absolutely hope he does find her more minutes, and that she develops more as a defensive player. All the freshmen looked lost on defense occasionally at the beginning of the season. But Ash and KK seemed to figure it out by February, and Ice by the BE tournament.

My bad in poor wording. I should have said: “regarding Qadence: Geno said he should have found her more minutes last year”.

Agree with you that Geno might want Qadence to become a player like Ashley Battle but with better offense.

 

[yhun89]

But Ash and KK seemed to figure it out by February, and Ice by the BE tournament.

Ice is such a strange case. She gets a few minutes in the start/middle of the season against unranked opponents, doesn’t do great. A foul machine who needs to be taken out once she gets in.

Cut to the BE tournament where she needs to fill the huge void Aaliyah left, and she’s a whole new player out there. Rebounds, points, shots falling. Defense clicking. Less foul prone. And against USC she hit multiple key shots and rebounds. She even posted up on Stuelke.

She’s the embodiment of “pressure creates diamonds,” which is incredibly surprising for a freshman IMO. Whereas other star freshman faded when the real pressure came onto them, Ice thrived. I’d have expected the opposite, but no, she did better when she was forced to be their go-to big than when she wasn’t. Great sign of development.

 

[asuwish]

With all the talk about needing more size, I was just reviewing @BRS24's most recent recruiting table [ UConn roster - 2024 and beyond ... ] and wondering about how big the team will be over the next few years. We were one of the smaller teams in the top 25 last year with only Aaliyah and Ice at 6'3" each, and we did not have great team speed beyond KK. This coming year, UConn will be one of the taller teams with Jana Ice Ayanna Sarah Caroline and Morgan. Not the tallest, that honor will go to UCLA and SC. We'll also be a quick team with the addition of Azzi Kaitlyn and Morgan.

For 2025-26, depending on who stays on, Geno has already lined up Kelis and Gandy, and may get Lara. This could give him (2x) 6'5", 6'4" 6'3 and (4x) 6'2" in the front court, along with Azzi KK Ash Allie Q and Kelis in the backcourt or on the wing. This would be a very tall lineup. Even with Jazzy Davidson back in the mix, it's not clear Geno would have room for her.

For 2026-27, again depending on who stays on, Geno has his eye on the Big O and Jerzy. If he gets those two, he could be at 14 players again. This would be another very large team with (3x) 6'5", 6'4" 6'3 and (3x) 6'2" in the front court, along with KK Ash Allie Q and Kelis in the backcourt or on the wing.. That's 8 bigs and 6 guards if Jerzy commits.

Geno might not have much room to recruit real guard depth until 2027-28 when the core of the team could well be Jana Lara O Gandy Sarah Morgan Allie Kelis and Jerzy. Does he turn to building a deeper front court at this point? He could have 4 or 5 spots to fill. Does he push for quickness with Qandace Ivanna and Special K, or does he try for size with Hassell, Marion and Mobley?

I pose these questions because Geno may have to choose between a big team or a quick team. UConn will be plenty quick as long as he has KK, Morgan and Kelis in the backcourt. But after that, it will be decision time.

Don't get me wrong. I know Geno will put together the team he thinks is best. These questions are for us to ponder as we look at team size and speed.

Why do people think Morgan is quick? She may play pg in HS but it's not like she can stay with say the ND guards.

 

[asuwish]

I think that having an over abundance of "bigs" is a great problem for Geno to deal with. I personally am still waiting for Geno to recruit that 6' 9" big from Eastern Europe: Ivana Stepallovaya.

There is a 7'3" girl in China. She appears to need a lot of work but if she develops what a potential problem for the other team. If not she would make the team work extra hard in practice scoring against her. If you can score inside on her you can probably score on just about anyone. Kara Walters came her needing a ton of work and look how she turned out.

 

[Bone Dog]

Why do people think Morgan is quick? She may play pg in HS but it's not like she can stay with say the ND guards.

I think she's quick because I watched several of her HS games. She is quick. Not everyone has to be as quick as Hannah Hidalgo to be considered quick. And on defense, a quick 6'2" can do things that an even quicker 5'7" guard cannot. For example, Morgan's HS team pressed most of the time, and Morgan led that press.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

He apologized to Q then a game or two later he didn't play her much again; am I right about that? I'm too lazy to check right now.

If he didn't have all these injuries, do you think he would be going to 15 high quality scholarship players? He did say recently that the best 5 are going to play. Would like your opinion-- (and anyone else)-- you think over the next few years if his players were healthy that he might go back to 12 (or 13 max)? What I'm suggesting is that might these last few seasons be more of an anomaly because for example Azzi, Caroline, Ayanna and even now with Aubrey - all four have missed significant time over the years that he can’t trust what he has to be "available" whicc is hwy he is going ot 15? And Jana and Ice are questionable too.

It is difficult to isolate what Geno’s recruiting changes would be solely from just the new realities of the portal without the impact of the extra covid year, the medical redshirt years and years cut short by injuries.

That said, Geno has indicated that he prefers identifying and recruiting high school recruits — which he is great at, especially touchstone recruits, by saying he would ordinarily only consider intriguing portal players with one or at most two years of eligibility.

So his natural response to any decimation of his effective roster due to year-by-year unfortunate events (injuries, transfers) is not by dipping too much into the portal or abrupt recruit signings, but by having earlier recruited more hand-picked recruits than he would be more comfortable previously.

This would help explain (if it were not just pure happenstance) the successive years of 3-4+ quality recruits and dipping into the portal for 1-2 intriguing players that would not affect future recruiting.

I think this will be his trend going forward, until he encounters some unwanted consequences (e.g. affects chemistry, negatively affects recruiting) if unwanted events cease for some significant time to being a plague on the program.

 

[asuwish]

There is a difference between fast and quick. Hannah, Olivia Miles, and KK are quick. Taller players like Rivers at NC State have top end speed. Morgan is not staying with any of them. I've watched her play. She is a good athlete but she is not blowing by people like those players

 

[From France]

My hope is that as soon as Tina Charles get retired, she will be proposed an asisstant coach job, I really think she is the one that can make things higher

 

[Bone Dog]

There is a difference between fast and quick. Hannah, Olivia Miles, and KK are quick. Taller players like Rivers at NC State have top end speed. Morgan is not staying with any of them. I've watched her play. She is a good athlete but she is not blowing by people like those players

Olivia doesn't belong on that list. She's no quicker than Paige or Morgan in that twitchy-quick blow by opponents sense. This was apparent the last time she faced Paige. But I'd add Diamond Johnson to it, as well as Rory Harmon before all the injuries. I'm curious to see how quick she remains when she comes back this season.

I'd agree that Saniya is probably a little quicker than Morgan, but not by much. The distinction between quickness and top end speed is a good one, but it only goes so far. Longer legs take a little more time to get moving, and that might be decisive in a 100 yard dash. A basketball court isn't that long and there aren't a lot of opportunities for straight line dashes. How many times have we seen the quicker smaller player blow by a taller player only to have their shot blocked in the end? Paige is a master of this, as is Azzi, and Caroline.

So is Morgan quick? Yes, relatively speaking. She's not as quick as Hannah, as I said earlier in this thread. A quick 6'2" guard is a force to be reckoned with. Aaliyah at 6'3" was quick off the dribble these last two years, and it intimidated the heck out of opposing bigs and littles. If Morgan ends up playing in the front court, she'll seem extra quick, first step quick. If she plays in the back court, she'll be too quick for the smaller quicker guards to keep up with because she won't have to fake (or twitch) to get her shot off, which means they'll have to play her close and then she can push past them or pass over them.

If you wonder why Sarah got so many open looks from 3 in hs, it wasn't because opposing teams were unaware of how good her shooting was. Nor was it because they were afraid she'd blow by them on a drive. They sagged off her because they feared her passing as much as they feared her shooting. In that context, she was too quick for whoever was guarding her.

A player's quickness and speed isn't just a matter of muscles and nerves. It's also (and perhaps more) about context and how many different threats they force opponents to defend against. Morgan is very quick in this sense. Like Paige and Sarah, she brings a lot of threats to the floor.

 

[ucbart]

Height helps immensely and takes precedent over quickness IMO. I think the biggest reason why South Carolina has dominated the past 3 seasons is their size and athleticism inside with Cardoso/Boston/Watkins/Feagin among others. They also dominate the glass and block a ton of shots. They’ll be loaded once again inside so UCONN will need El Alfy to be healthy and productive to combat gong up against a tall and athletic South Carolina team.

Agree! But I think the loss of Cardoso will be, in a way, bigger than losing Boston. They have depth and athleticism up front, but not that massive figure that is Cardoso. They'll be incredible, but they had some close calls last year and Cardoso was a huge difference in those games.

 

[Majic Hands]

I am so with you on this thought! It's a great time to be a Husky fan.

It’s “always” a good time to be a UConn wbb fan!

 

[ashfan]

A championship team needs everything. This year, Page, Ash, & KK must be the leaders; for the following two seasons, Ash & KK. The back court will liberate the front court.

 

[hoophuskee]

It is difficult to isolate what Geno’s recruiting changes would be solely from just the new realities of the portal without the impact of the extra covid year, the medical redshirt years and years cut short by injuries.

That said, Geno has indicated that he prefers identifying and recruiting high school recruits — which he is great at, especially touchstone recruits, by saying he would ordinarily only consider intriguing portal players with one or at most two years of eligibility.

So his natural response to any decimation of his effective roster due to year-by-year unfortunate events (injuries, transfers) is not by dipping too much into the portal or abrupt recruit signings, but by having earlier recruited more hand-picked recruits than he would be more comfortable previously.

This would help explain (if it were not just pure happenstance) the successive years of 3-4+ quality recruits and dipping into the portal for 1-2 intriguing players that would not affect future recruiting.

I think this will be his trend going forward, until he encounters some unwanted consequences (e.g. affects chemistry, negatively affects recruiting) if unwanted events cease for some significant time to being a plague on the program.

I don't see the differences of changes from past to present that you see but I see what you say he is doing at this moment. I just felt he has always done this. But I 100% agree - he will continue to go after H/S recruits hard. I agree with all you say here - so nautrually I'm excited for UCONN's future too.

 

[bballnut90]

Agree! But I think the loss of Cardoso will be, in a way, bigger than losing Boston. They have depth and athleticism up front, but not that massive figure that is Cardoso. They'll be incredible, but they had some close calls last year and Cardoso was a huge difference in those games.

That could be the case, but at the same time I think South Carolina looks better on paper than they were this year, even without Cardoso. Last year they didn't have the same depth and dominance on the glass compared to 2022-23, but it didn't matter because they made up for it with improved guard play and perimeter shooting. We got a glimpse of what they'd look like without Cardoso vs UCONN and they were still incredibly dominant with Watkins replacing here.

 

[oldhusky]

I think there are several things that make pursuing multiple bigs on a consistent basis a desirable strategy, even casting aside for the moment the debate over size vs. smaller quicker more talented players. First they are very rare, and if we don't get them, one of our most serious contenders will. Second it is much harder to project or predict their success, because the high school competition doesn't offer a good measuring stick against much smaller competition. Only against similar size and skill competition do we get a better idea.

My point is the variation of college performance vs. HS ranking is much wider than for the guards. It is more of an unknown, and you can't just assume you get a top 10 recruit and you are set at that position for the next four years. I get the arguments that assume Jana and Sarah will be real stars, Gandy will be a good contributor, we get Lara and Olivia and they meet expectations too, but the odds of all of that happening are far from certain.

When you have maybe four proven high level bigs then you might back off going after additional ones, but we are nowhere close to that yet. After Amari, Ice and Ayanna, I can't assume high ranking equals sure thing college star. I am actually pretty confident about Sarah and Jana, but we need them to be real good from the beginning, and even if they are, we don't yet have proven quality behind them. Ayanna and Ice IMO are only quality backups if they show a huge improvement from their first year performance.

I like our odds of getting both Lara and Olivia, and feel they will be the real deal too when they enter college, but there is uncertainty there too, both over getting them, and as to how good they will be. I also think the big options beyond Lara in 25 and Olivia in 26 are pretty limited. The downside if you miss on either is significant, although the portal could be plan B.

Some of the championship contenders have had 4 or 5 very good bigs. They also generally had at least a couple of those proven and returning that they could count on. If all that we hope for happens with Sarah, Jana, Gandy, Lara and Olivia maybe we do too, but remember not one of those players has proven it yet at the college level, and two of them have not yet committed.

Our roster is unusual in that we are very dependent on inexperienced players upfront being thrown into the fire and producing right away, which they probably will, but one of the top portal bigs would have been a major addition, and until our new bigs prove themselves the hunt for bigs should continue IMO.

 

[Bone Dog]

That could be the case, but at the same time I think South Carolina looks better on paper than they were this year, even without Cardoso. Last year they didn't have the same depth and dominance on the glass compared to 2022-23, but it didn't matter because they made up for it with improved guard play and perimeter shooting. We got a glimpse of what they'd look like without Cardoso vs UCONN and they were still incredibly dominant with Watkins replacing here.

I’m not sure SC will be better than last season, but they are still the presumptive #1 going into the season. It wouldn't surprise me if this turns out to be the case for the next couple years. Dawn has built a formidable program, one that could lose the freshies all in one season and come back better. That’s 4 out of 5 starters. I don’t know if any coach has done that and come back to win an NC.

Dawn has figured out what the great coaches all know: how to get superstars to devote their talents to a team concept. That said, I think she may have over-recruited this team by getting Dauda in the portal. She already had a great frontcourt and I suspect it will be a bit clogged for the next couple years. Watkins Walker Kitts Tac and Edwards should have been enough going forward. I think she will finally have an impatient bench.

Geno hasn’t made this mistake. He got Kaitlyn from the portal, and some feared that was one too many guards. But after the initial shock I think most folks see her as a positive addition. But Geno didn’t add another big through the portal, and I think he was right not to do so. The drumbeat on the BY may have been right to think we were one big away from dominating this season. But I feared that it might clog up recruiting and rotations for more than one year. He signed a five year extension and therefore is probably thinking in 5-year terms, as he always has.

I really agree with @oldhusky about the trouble with predicting which HS bigs will flourish at the next level. His analysis seems just right. This almost always means it takes a year or more before they can reach their potential -- assuming they have genuine potential. Stewie and Boston and A'ja all grew significantly in their 4 years, but they were all already D1 ready coming out of HS. I'd be tempted to include Liv and Dorka in this list, though I'm pretty sure they wouldn't and have said so in interviews. In any event kids like this are exceptions, and the middle of the bell curve is populated by slow growing kids who aren't ready to start until their third year, if then. This means the recruitment rhythm is quite different for bigs and littles. KK and Ash could work their way onto a top-10 starting lineup as freshman. That's unusual. Geno has always had a knack for finding guards like them, and they weren't always heralded coming out of HS. Jewels in the rough who could handle the pressure of such a role as freshman. I'd venture to say that if they had to, this year's freshmen could do the same thing. Let's hope they don't have to.

 

[donalddoowop]

I’m not sure SC will be better than last season, but they are still the presumptive #1 going into the season. It wouldn't surprise me if this turns out to be the case for the next couple years. Dawn has built a formidable program, one that could lose the freshies all in one season and come back better. That’s 4 out of 5 starters. I don’t know if any coach has done that and come back to win an NC.

Dawn has figured out what the great coaches all know: how to get superstars to devote their talents to a team concept. That said, I think she may have over-recruited this team by getting Dauda in the portal. She already had a great frontcourt and I suspect it will be a bit clogged for the next couple years. Watkins Walker Kitts Tac and Edwards should have been enough going forward. I think she will finally have an impatient bench.

Geno hasn’t made this mistake. He got Kaitlyn from the portal, and some feared that was one too many guards. But after the initial shock I think most folks see her as a positive addition. But Geno didn’t add another big through the portal, and I think he was right not to do so. The drumbeat on the BY may have been right to think we were one big away from dominating this season. But I feared that it might clog up recruiting and rotations for more than one year. He signed a five year extension and therefore is probably thinking in 5-year terms, as he always has.

I really agree with @oldhusky about the trouble with predicting which HS bigs will flourish at the next level. His analysis seems just right. This almost always means it takes a year or more before they can reach their potential -- assuming they have genuine potential. Stewie and Boston and A'ja all grew significantly in their 4 years, but they were all already D1 ready coming out of HS. I'd be tempted to include Liv and Dorka in this list, though I'm pretty sure they wouldn't and have said so in interviews. In any event kids like this are exceptions, and the middle of the bell curve is populated by slow growing kids who aren't ready to start until their third year, if then. This means the recruitment rhythm is quite different for bigs and littles. KK and Ash could work their way onto a top-10 starting lineup as freshman. That's unusual. Geno has always had a knack for finding guards like them, and they weren't always heralded coming out of HS. Jewels in the rough who could handle the pressure of such a role as freshman. I'd venture to say that if they had to, this year's freshmen could do the same thing. Let's hope they don't have to.

Reportedly Geno went after Beers. She was a big in the portal.

 

[Bone Dog]

Reportedly Geno went after Beers. She was a big in the portal.

Yes, though I didn't think it went far, and he also reportedly sought Iriafen. I thought Kiki was a better option because she'd only be in the program for one year, while Beers would be here for two. I haven't heard that he went after Dauda or Barker. In other words, his approach was surgical. He didn't try to hoover up some big any big -- only those who might help without disrupting recruiting too much. And as soon as he no longer saw anyone who fit that bill, he said he was done.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

That could be the case, but at the same time I think South Carolina looks better on paper than they were this year, even without Cardoso. Last year they didn't have the same depth and dominance on the glass compared to 2022-23, but it didn't matter because they made up for it with improved guard play and perimeter shooting. We got a glimpse of what they'd look like without Cardoso vs UCONN and they were still incredibly dominant with Watkins replacing here.

Looking forward to a proper rematch. One without an asterisk here and there.

The game you cited is not a proper competition:

• UConn played arguably (5)+1, and not necessarily its top 7 from a pool of 14, consisting of 4 effective freshmen and 3 upperclassmen with Bigs playing 42 minutes; including that game, the starters (including Paige coming back from a year’s absence) have played together a total of eighteen games in a novel 4-guard 3-point guard lineup;
• South Carolina played arguably its top (5)+3, from a pool of 11, who, apart from Paopao and freshmen Fulwiley and Johnson, have been practicing together since the prior season; only Jah and Cardoso did not play; South Carolina’s Bigs played 78 minutes.

A proper game would test this year’s iteration of the question: “beautiful basketball” vs. height and athleticism.