Can Ice have a big season this year?

[Bone Dog]

I see that as well. The temptation is just too great not to try it. If that occurs, who plays Sarah? She will be posting up against a smaller player and that is big time trouble to be sure. Also, Ice and Jana are both good passers so I see high-lows from Jana to Serah, Serah to Sarah, Ice to Jana, etc. Just take your pick. Plus the put backs. Nice to be the "big" team for a change.

I agree with you and @oldude on this prospect. It is possible and intriguing. But I’m not as sanguine as you seem to be about Jana and Ice as passers. I’m mainly thinking of the way Geno used them at the top of the key. From that position they did not often attempt to pass into the paint, which meant a dimension of the offense was unavailable with them at that position. This was a stark contrast to when Sarah ran the offense from the top of the key and the offense was really difficult to defend.

A BIG squad sounds intriguing, but Jana and Ice would need to develop their passing skills to play a significant role in it, I suspect. Of course, I can picture Ice playing down low with Serah while Sarah runs the passing game from the top of the key, and Ice’s interior passing was pretty good last season. But her comfort level seems to be higher when she’s not stuck in the low post. The virtues of a BIG squad seems most intriguing on defense given the speed of several of the 6’2” players.

And on a related note, I don’t get why folks think Ice is slow. She runs the court well, and moves her feet well. It’s true the fouling is a sign of not always moving quickly enough. But I think this is more a result of not really fitting into the low post all that well than of not moving her feet. She’s just not a natural there. On the other hand, she defends the midrange well and can close out on the perimeter when needed.

 

[BBallF]

I agree with you and @oldude on this prospect. It is possible and intriguing. But I’m not as sanguine as you seem to be about Jana and Ice as passers. I’m mainly thinking of the way Geno used them at the top of the key. From that position they did not often attempt to pass into the paint, which meant a dimension of the offense was unavailable with them at that position. This was a stark contrast to when Sarah ran the offense from the top of the key and the offense was really difficult to defend.

A BIG squad sounds intriguing, but Jana and Ice would need to develop their passing skills to play a significant role in it, I suspect. Of course, I can picture Ice playing down low with Serah while Sarah runs the passing game from the top of the key, and Ice’s interior passing was pretty good last season. But her comfort level seems to be higher when she’s not stuck in the low post. The virtues of a BIG squad seems most intriguing on defense given the speed of several of the 6’2” players.

And on a related note, I don’t get why folks think Ice is slow. She runs the court well, and moves her feet well. It’s true the fouling is a sign of not always moving quickly enough. But I think this is more a result of not really fitting into the low post all that well than of not moving her feet. She’s just not a natural there. On the other hand, she defends the midrange well and can close out on the perimeter when needed.

Ice is a natural 4, not 5. Fortunately, she will not have to play that 5 position except if Serah and Jana can't. The one thing different from last year with the passing from the high post will be a new target. I think Serah seals better than anyone in the country other than Betts. In fact, Serah got a good amount of her points by sealing her defender on her back so she was closer to the basket. Jana made that pass last year underneath to Sarah and Ice certainly can.

I have said this before and I will say it again. When Jana was just learning and really struggling, the first person to really highlight her baby steps improvements, which were more like fits and starts, was oldude. Many of us were just very frustrated with her especially after Geno's comments pre-season about her. Geno knew he needed her to develop quickly to win the NC with the likes of USC, South Carolina and UCLA coming. When she played against South Carolina in the first game, you saw the fruition of the plan. She still really gets overlooked and so does Ice for that matter.

They can both pass but even if they need large improvement, you can teach that way more quickly than other things, like driving with your weak hand, or shooting a pull up J from 15 feet. Jana is 6'5" and a space eater and has had only 1 year coming off an injury of college basketball in America and won a national championship. Ice has been through a lot but always seems to come through when needed the most. Both are going to be more confident, more aggressive players. It's not an out on a limb prediction. It's just what a national championship does.

 

[Bills Fan]

I read where Serah is having trouble mastering the system. Some of you may be jumping the gun on some of the players who will play a lot. Remember, this is UConn where injuries come to live. Unfortunately, Ice found that out her freshman season. However, I believe Ice will exceed most BYers expectations this season. She is ready, imo.

I wouldn't read any negatives into a discussion of how Serah is doing. She has proven herself with 3 outstanding seasons in the Big Ten, and lets remember that she has yet to even begin actual practices with instructions from JE, CD and Geno. It's hard to judge her fitting into the UCONN system when practice hasn't even started.

 

[Bone Dog]

Ice is a natural 4, not 5. Fortunately, she will not have to play that 5 position except if Serah and Jana can't. The one thing different from last year with the passing from the high post will be a new target. I think Serah seals better than anyone in the country other than Betts. In fact, Serah got a good amount of her points by sealing her defender on her back so she was closer to the basket. Jana made that pass last year underneath to Sarah and Ice certainly can.

I have said this before and I will say it again. When Jana was just learning and really struggling, the first person to really highlight her baby steps improvements, which were more like fits and starts, was oldude. Many of us were just very frustrated with her especially after Geno's comments pre-season about her. Geno knew he needed her to develop quickly to win the NC with the likes of USC, South Carolina and UCLA coming. When she played against South Carolina in the first game, you saw the fruition of the plan. She still really gets overlooked and so does Ice for that matter.

They can both pass but even if they need large improvement, you can teach that way more quickly than other things, like driving with your weak hand, or shooting a pull up J from 15 feet. Jana is 6'5" and a space eater and has had only 1 year coming off an injury of college basketball in America and won a national championship. Ice has been through a lot but always seems to come through when needed the most. Both are going to be more confident, more aggressive players. It's not an out on a limb prediction. It's just what a national championship does.

You don't need to defend Jana to me. I was her earliest adopter, as soon as I heard CD had gone to Egypt for her. I hunted down videos of her in high school, navigated websites in Arabic and games in poorly lit gyms. And I caught a lot of intemperate flak on the BY for reporting what I saw, a strong 5 with ball-handling skills and three-level scoring with a ferocious spirit who wasn't afraid to fight through low post double and triple teams. She often won games from the free throw line, since fouling was all defenders could do to stop her in the low post. That injury was a terrible setback for Jana, as was the unrelated injury to Ice. I really hope to see a second-year-post-injury leap from her. I think Jana is still working on the fitness trajectory and expect her to come back even stronger and leaner than last season. But Ice is already back into great physical shape.

I'm still wary of their passing abilities, judging from what we saw last season. I think you're right to say passing can be taught to some extent. But the truly great passers seem to have a gift that can't be taught. Right now, post-Paige, it may only be Sarah who has it, though Morgan and Carol may be close.

 

[DefenseBB]

I see that as well. The temptation is just too great not to try it. If that occurs, who plays Sarah? She will be posting up against a smaller player and that is big time trouble to be sure. Also, Ice and Jana are both good passers so I see high-lows from Jana to Serah, Serah to Sarah, Ice to Jana, etc. Just take your pick. Plus the put backs. Nice to be the "big" team for a change.

I would say Ice has certainly improved her passing to the tune of 1.96 Assist to turnover ratio (55-28 ) from her 1st year of .872 (41 to 47) but to say she is a good passer is still a bit of a stretch . Considering how often we use the high post (the ratio certainly is good but the raw number of assists is low), Ice has not utilized this position as well as you would think. Jana is similar to Ice in her first year with .830 Assist to turnover ratio (40/48) so I hope a big jump also occurs and am more bullish on Jana becoming adept in the high post than Ice. As noted, Ice has struggled with confidence and I am really hoping in year 4 of the program, she can gain what she needs.

That said, I would hope Geno and staff have learned their coaching lessons from when Dorka arrived and they couldn't figure out how to use a 2-time First Team Big Ten player in our lineup. Serah too, is also 2-time First Team Big Ten player so they need to find a way. Stop trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole.

I don't know what the final rotation will be at the end of the year but I certainly can guess. All the players will be given ample opportunity to prove they warrant playing time but in March, I see a rotation of 9-10 players with 10 or more minutes per game and the front-court is the biggest limitation as Geno likes to go small. Ice, Yanna, Gandy and even Jana may struggle for key minutes if they can't pass, shoot or defend at an elite level.

Like I have said previously, this team is extremely talented and unselfish so passing will be critical (and awesome to watch) but getting all the new pieces to work well together will take time. While this team is capable of 90+ points per game, Geno will make the team work on the half-court offense, utilizing clock and ball movement to limit the number of points. After Azzi and Sarah, I am still unsure about our 3 pt game as we need to hit a .350 clip as a team. Ash will help but CD, KK and K9 all have to hit shots when wide open. That will open up the inside for Serah, Jana and Ice. What I do know is I don't want Ice or Jana taking 3 point shots. I worry about the amount of quality minutes Allie will get to see how her shooting could aid us.

But as I said, the 15 story lines will be interesting to see how it plays out. Arguably our toughest OOC game is Tennessee in Feb so we should be hitting on all cylinders by then and People's Bank Arena will be rocking with 15,000+ fans.

 

[ccwarrior]

She has always seemed to be a "big" that doesn't like to work in the paint (wants to play with her face to the basket). The problem with is that her skills (as a 4 or 3) don't truly match those positions. She isn't quick enough, have the ball handling skills, and the elite passing skills to beat out the players in front of her in the hierarchy. I hope she can carve out some minutes filling in for the starters this season.

 

[Skeets]

UConn’s read and react system takes some time to master, particularly for Bigs. Everyone screens, cuts and passes while playing off each other. At WI Serah was the focal point of an offense that revolved around her. In two similar situations, both Z and Dorka struggled initially to figure things out at UConn. It will take a little time. But I have no doubt that Serah will figure it out.

Yep, that's the way it's likely to play out. However once in a great while a generational player will force the offense, and the coaching staff, to play her game, not the other way around. I'm not saying the Serah is that person, plus the talent pool at UConn is too wide and deep, but on a lesser team and extraordinary talent can come in and alter the trajectory of the team.

 

[Skeets]

You don't need to defend Jana to me. I was her earliest adopter, as soon as I heard CD had gone to Egypt for her. I hunted down videos of her in high school, navigated websites in Arabic and games in poorly lit gyms. And I caught a lot of intemperate flak on the BY for reporting what I saw, a strong 5 with ball-handling skills and three-level scoring with a ferocious spirit who wasn't afraid to fight through low post double and triple teams. She often won games from the free throw line, since fouling was all defenders could do to stop her in the low post. That injury was a terrible setback for Jana, as was the unrelated injury to Ice. I really hope to see a second-year-post-injury leap from her. I think Jana is still working on the fitness trajectory and expect her to come back even stronger and leaner than last season. But Ice is already back into great physical shape.

I'm still wary of their passing abilities, judging from what we saw last season. I think you're right to say passing can be taught to some extent. But the truly great passers seem to have a gift that can't be taught. Right now, post-Paige, it may only be Sarah who has it, though Morgan and Carol may be close.

When CD got up on that camel, you knew that UConn was seriously wanting her. I trust UConn knew what they were doing and what they were getting.

 

[BBallF]

You don't need to defend Jana to me. I was her earliest adopter, as soon as I heard CD had gone to Egypt for her. I hunted down videos of her in high school, navigated websites in Arabic and games in poorly lit gyms. And I caught a lot of intemperate flak on the BY for reporting what I saw, a strong 5 with ball-handling skills and three-level scoring with a ferocious spirit who wasn't afraid to fight through low post double and triple teams. She often won games from the free throw line, since fouling was all defenders could do to stop her in the low post. That injury was a terrible setback for Jana, as was the unrelated injury to Ice. I really hope to see a second-year-post-injury leap from her. I think Jana is still working on the fitness trajectory and expect her to come back even stronger and leaner than last season. But Ice is already back into great physical shape.

I'm still wary of their passing abilities, judging from what we saw last season. I think you're right to say passing can be taught to some extent. But the truly great passers seem to have a gift that can't be taught. Right now, post-Paige, it may only be Sarah who has it, though Morgan and Carol may be close.

Good for you for being a Jana fan early. She developed so much in one year and has such natural gifts and a heart to go along with it that you have to be excited. Plus she is pure TEAM.

Jana and Ice don't have to be great passers, they just have to be able to make good passes to the best pure offensive post player we have had in years who is Serah. While I agree that Sarah is a great passer, she is an All American. Jana and Ice are not but the passes don't have to be Paige like or Sue like or of All American quality. Serah actually make the passes easier because she seals so well and positions herself so well. Remember Bill Russell saying he got most of his rebounds before the shot was even taken. Same for Serah with her inside game. She gets a lot of her points before she even gets the ball. When a post player is in the right position vis a vis the defender, the end is near.

 

[BBallF]

I would say Ice has certainly improved her passing to the tune of 1.96 Assist to turnover ratio (55-28 ) from her 1st year of .872 (41 to 47) but to say she is a good passer is still a bit of a stretch . Considering how often we use the high post (the ratio certainly is good but the raw number of assists is low), Ice has not utilized this position as well as you would think. Jana is similar to Ice in her first year with .830 Assist to turnover ratio (40/48) so I hope a big jump also occurs and am more bullish on Jana becoming adept in the high post than Ice. As noted, Ice has struggled with confidence and I am really hoping in year 4 of the program, she can gain what she needs.

That said, I would hope Geno and staff have learned their coaching lessons from when Dorka arrived and they couldn't figure out how to use a 2-time First Team Big Ten player in our lineup. Serah too, is also 2-time First Team Big Ten player so they need to find a way. Stop trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole.

I don't know what the final rotation will be at the end of the year but I certainly can guess. All the players will be given ample opportunity to prove they warrant playing time but in March, I see a rotation of 9-10 players with 10 or more minutes per game and the front-court is the biggest limitation as Geno likes to go small. Ice, Yanna, Gandy and even Jana may struggle for key minutes if they can't pass, shoot or defend at an elite level.

Like I have said previously, this team is extremely talented and unselfish so passing will be critical (and awesome to watch) but getting all the new pieces to work well together will take time. While this team is capable of 90+ points per game, Geno will make the team work on the half-court offense, utilizing clock and ball movement to limit the number of points. After Azzi and Sarah, I am still unsure about our 3 pt game as we need to hit a .350 clip as a team. Ash will help but CD, KK and K9 all have to hit shots when wide open. That will open up the inside for Serah, Jana and Ice. What I do know is I don't want Ice or Jana taking 3 point shots. I worry about the amount of quality minutes Allie will get to see how her shooting could aid us.

But as I said, the 15 story lines will be interesting to see how it plays out. Arguably our toughest OOC game is Tennessee in Feb so we should be hitting on all cylinders by then and People's Bank Arena will be rocking with 15,000+ fans.

You can take a great passer and not have suitable targets, such as players who move well without the ball, or know how to position themselves and that great passer is nowhere near as effective. Consider the target this coming year which is Serah. Everyone, KK, \Kayleigh, Caroline, Blanca, Sarah, Azzi, ash etc. are going to find her underneath at times. Jana and Ice will too.

The assist to turnover ratio is for the entire time they are out there and to all players and turnovers are a different story and change the statistic. If you have a high number of assists but make a high number of turnovers in the game for walks, double dribbles, losing the ball out of bounds, etc. it changes the statistic. It becomes the eye test from the past season when you are talking about passes to the low post this year and I saw that they, Ice and Jana, both had the ability and game acumen to make that pass and if Serah gets to post up, it will be a lot easier because once she gets it in the right position it is usually a basket, a foul, or both.

 

[DefenseBB]

You don't need to defend Jana to me. I was her earliest adopter, as soon as I heard CD had gone to Egypt for her. I hunted down videos of her in high school, navigated websites in Arabic and games in poorly lit gyms. And I caught a lot of intemperate flak on the BY for reporting what I saw, a strong 5 with ball-handling skills and three-level scoring with a ferocious spirit who wasn't afraid to fight through low post double and triple teams. She often won games from the free throw line, since fouling was all defenders could do to stop her in the low post. That injury was a terrible setback for Jana, as was the unrelated injury to Ice. I really hope to see a second-year-post-injury leap from her. I think Jana is still working on the fitness trajectory and expect her to come back even stronger and leaner than last season. But Ice is already back into great physical shape.

I'm still wary of their passing abilities, judging from what we saw last season. I think you're right to say passing can be taught to some extent. But the truly great passers seem to have a gift that can't be taught. Right now, post-Paige, it may only be Sarah who has it, though Morgan and Carol may be close.

Jana NEVER had ball-handling skills and certainly has shown NO 3-Level scoring (at the rim, mid-range and beyond the arc). I would be pleased if she would hit 60% of her shots at the rim, which she struggled with last year (layups were a mess). 2 Summers ago, YOU made the statement of Jana reminding you of Stewie/Svet which at the time was absurd and after a full year of watching her, is just as absurd. Jana did become an effective passer by year end starting 29 assists to 39 turnovers in first 28 games and 11-9 in her last 12 (and against better competition). She shot about the same the first 28 vs. last 12 (52.8% to 51.4%), rebounded about the same 5.1-4.9 but she fouled more 1.7 in first 28 to 2.5 in last 12. I do see her improving her assists to turnovers similarly to the way Ice did her second year (from 41-47 to 55-28) and improving her overall game and will stop fouling.

Jana will never be a 3 level scoring threat but I do hope she can show an improved mid-range to hit the foul line jumper. She will be a key rim defender and strong post player for us. She will absolutely perform her role to max and give great support to her teammates. To be clear-we differ on her shooting and ball handling which you think are good and I think her passing will be much improved and she does have pretty good court vision but you seem to doubt.

She has upside and I think she will maximize her opportunities and fit the role needed. Given the talent on this team, she is probably the back-up post and 7th or 8th person off the bench. By her 3rd and 4th years I expect her to be a star.

 

[YKCornelius]

Yep, that's the way it's likely to play out. However once in a great while a generational player will force the offense, and the coaching staff, to play her game, not the other way around. I'm not saying the Serah is that person, plus the talent pool at UConn is too wide and deep, but on a lesser team and extraordinary talent can come in and alter the trajectory of the team.

Has that scenario EVER played out that way at UConn? I think not.

I don't think it has played out at South Carolina or Stanford under Tara.

This is not Iowa, Southern Cal, or Notre Dame where that may have occurred in recent years. One hundred percent of the great UConn players have adapted to the team-first style that Geno and staff have instilled since the mid-eighties.

 

[YKCornelius]

You can take a great passer and not have suitable targets, such as players who move well without the ball, or know how to position themselves and that great passer is nowhere near as effective. Consider the target this coming year which is Serah. Everyone, KK, \Kayleigh, Caroline, Blanca, Sarah, Azzi, ash etc. are going to find her underneath at times. Jana and Ice will too.

The assist to turnover ratio is for the entire time they are out there and to all players and turnovers are a different story and change the statistic. If you have a high number of assists but make a high number of turnovers in the game for walks, double dribbles, losing the ball out of bounds, etc. it changes the statistic. It becomes the eye test from the past season when you are talking about passes to the low post this year and I saw that they, Ice and Jana, both had the ability and game acumen to make that pass and if Serah gets to post up, it will be a lot easier because once she gets it in the right position it is usually a basket, a foul, or both.

BBallF, I agree with you. Anyone looking at assist-to-turnover ratio as an effective measure of passing ability for a low post big is looking at the wrong stats. A/TO is more suitable to guards and wings.

Very few of Ice's and Jana's turnovers were attributed to "bad passes". As I recall, traveling, getting tied up and losing possession, fumbling the ball out of bounds, offensive fouls, having the ball stripped by defenders when brought down low, etc, were the reasons behind most of their TOs. Historically, that is not uncommon for freshmen/sophomore bigs with limited playing time.

 

[Skeets]

Has that scenario EVER played out that way at UConn? I think not.

I don't think it has played out at South Carolina or Stanford under Tara.

This is not Iowa, Southern Cal, or Notre Dame where that may have occurred in recent years. One hundred percent of the great UConn players have adapted to the team-first style that Geno and staff have instilled since the mid-eighties.

Yukon, I didn't say that it ever did at UConn. If fact I mentioned on a "lesser team". Maybe Jackie Stiles would be an example of a talent which just overwhelmed a program.

I'm not sure that kid from Iowa, who shall go nameless on this board, is a good example because she was such an assist machine.

 

[BobbyJ]

Yep, that's the way it's likely to play out. However once in a great while a generational player will force the offense, and the coaching staff, to play her game, not the other way around. I'm not saying the Serah is that person, plus the talent pool at UConn is too wide and deep, but on a lesser team and extraordinary talent can come in and alter the trajectory of the team.

That hasn't happened at UConn. The best players like Moore, Stewart, Bueckers etc. have all played within the structure of the offense. What they did was use their superior talents, intellects, and abilities to finish to utilize the advantages that the read and react motion offense is designed to give them.

 

[BBallF]

BBallF, I agree with you. Anyone looking at assist-to-turnover ratio as an effective measure of passing ability for a low post big is looking at the wrong stats. A/TO is more suitable to guards and wings.

Very few of Ice's and Jana's turnovers were attributed to "bad passes". As I recall, traveling, getting tied up and losing possession, fumbling the ball out of bounds, offensive fouls, having the ball stripped by defenders when brought down low, etc, were the reasons behind most of their TOs. Historically, that is not uncommon for freshmen/sophomore bigs with limited playing time.

This is spot on. We always said that Ice had poor hands, referring to grip strength and clutching ability. Jana had the same problem. I think we will see visible improvement this year from both of them. We have to remember how young they are, how much they had to overcome and also how much they still are developing which includes their finger and hand strength.

Here is the thing though. They are above all else, smart and accomplished players now and that is one of the reasons why I think the high post -low post pass from Jana to Serah, Ice to Jana, or Ice to Serah will be lethal this year. It's also why I think Geno is going to run sets for it and go "big ball" at times this year as well as "small ball". How much fun will that be?

 

[Cuango]

It seems strange to be able to say that our front court is a strength!
Fortunately, we can still also say that our backcourt is a strength! In the interest of brevity, how about this? Our entire roster is a strength!😎