California state university system cancels fall classes on campus

[JimHurley]

Did anyone listen to the head of the system talk about it or is everyone just relying on headlines and being shocked? He said he is doing this to allow the most of time for preparation and decision making. It is not easy to shift an entire system (well almost entire because they will still allow in person learning is some certain cases) to distance learning. Doing this now allows for the professors to prepare to enable the best possible learning situation. Most already know how to teach in person and are on cruise control in the classroom. It is more difficult to switch from in person to distance learning than the other way around. This allows professors time to adjust and prepare and make the best possible learning situation. Also, allows the students to make a decision about their future. Rather than enrolling, paying, and then being blindsided with distance learning at the last minute, they can decide yes or no, and then not have to worry about residential arrangements, etc that may fall through at the last minute. They know what they are signing up for. He made good arguments for making the decision now and living with it. Now for my additional take, I would think that that the Cal State program has a significant Asian population that will not allowed back into the country in August. This is a way for Cal State to receive payment and keep those students enrolled and able to “take classes” and more importantly pay. I may be wrong on that point as it’s my guess, but it’s a los easier to reach California from Asia than the east coast so it seems logical.

Schools that do fully online will fold, and fast. Kids will not pay full tuition for virtual learning. Tuition has gotten out of control for in person learning, never mind if it all has to be through a computer. Endowments will go down. No revenue from sports. Lots of colleges will not survive this and I think a lot of them know that.

 

[HobokenHusky]

I'm not just picking on you (I'm also picking on @JimHurley, for example) , but, with all due respect, no one on this board has any idea what plates the decision makers in California are spinning. It may or may not be the case that they are jumping the gun and being overly cautious in canceling fall on-campus classes, but to definitively state that the decision is premature, or crazy, or anything else is completely baseless. (Unless you are actually involved in the decision in California. In that case I take it all back.)

48 people ages 15-24 have died from Covid-19 in California to this point. Unsure what 17-22 looks like, but presumably even less. I understand there are also other workers and professors who are potentially in riskier buckets, and that these individuals come in contact with a wide variety of people throughout the course of their days. But those are the numbers we are talking about, and we are potentially putting 100,000's of people in terrible financial situations because of them. There have to be trade offs.

 

[Get a Job]

48 people ages 15-24 have died from Covid-19 in California to this point. Unsure what 17-22 looks like, but presumably even less. I understand there are also other workers and professors who are potentially in riskier buckets, and that these individuals come in contact with a wide variety of people throughout the course of their days. But those are the numbers we are talking about, and we are potentially putting 100,000's of people in terrible financial situations because of them. There have to be trade offs.

There are trade-offs, but you do not fully understand both sides of each one. Presumably the people involved in making the decision have a better handle on it. I am not saying you're wrong, because I can't know if you're wrong. I am ignorant just like you. I am simply saying we should all have some humility.

 

[8893]

I am simply saying we should all have some humility.

Good one!

 

[gtcam]

I'm not just picking on you (I'm also picking on @JimHurley, for example) , but, with all due respect, no one on this board has any idea what plates the decision makers in California are spinning. It may or may not be the case that they are jumping the gun and being overly cautious in canceling fall on-campus classes, but to definitively state that the decision is premature, or crazy, or anything else is completely baseless. (Unless you are actually involved in the decision in California. In that case I take it all back.)

Intelligent people can look at things from a distance and take into consideration past decision making trends from those affiliated with that business to make deductions/opinions.
Based on the governor of California, his affiliations with certain people and groups, I can easily see without reservations that his thumb in on the back of the state university system to force a decision such as this.
BTW, Newsome doesn't spin plates - he breaks them - because of where he came from and who he thinks he is - he can

 

[UconnU]

Closing schools makes no sense. The number of young adults being killed by the virus is close to zero. The CDC number is about one in a million for 18-24 year olds. Keep the kids and teachers with severe underlying conditions home doing online courses and let the rest go about business.

 

[upstater]

We have no idea about the downstream after effects of this virus. People are making statements without knowing a thing. Anyone reading about what this virus does is terrified right now.

 

[8893]

Based on the governor of California, his affiliations with certain people and groups, I can easily see without reservations that his thumb in on the back of the state university system to force a decision such as this.

LOL. Subtle.

 

[M.S.G.]

Yeah the self proclaimed "health experts" on the Yard are a bit presumptuous just because they read an article or went down a rabbit hole on YouTube.

All I know is what I see. If things continue the way they are going, public schools will NOT open in the fall. The teacher's union is as ruthless and iron clad as Jimmy Hoffa's regime. Also to be considered, as a high school teacher myself I have MANY colleagues who are in their mid 50's with varying issues, some even in their early 60's. I am not a tinfoil hat person, I follow the rules set aside by my state and I simply see things getting worse before they get better.

My wife is the director of research at a major hospital in the area and while she's overseeing a handful of COVID studies right now, there's nothing coming down the pike that is going to vaccinate anyone before 2021 and likely not even then.

I remember reading in the "How has your life changed...." thread when this was just starting, and one guy said, I am going to wash my hands LESS! These are the hardos that ruin it for everyone, the loudest guy in the room is not always right. I have been arguing with the idiots on my town FB forum for weeks (too much time on my hands, I know) a guy even DM'd me to ask me to meet him at Home Depot and fight him in the parking lot.

Just breathe, and let it all unfold.

 

[kibblesnbits]

Correct, but it’s not possible to avoid leaving the house completely. People need to eat. It’s when people go out and then stay confined in a house that they see the transmission.

Only because someone picked it up outside first. Once that happens they will transmit it at home regardless of whether there is a stay at home order or not. However, without stay at home they will also transmit it at work, restaurants and many other places.

 

[Adios]

How come people in South Korea and Japan don't cry about wearing masks?

 

[phillionaire]

How come people in South Korea and Japan don't cry about wearing masks?

obviously because they don't value freedom

 

[NJHusky]

Closing schools makes no sense. The number of young adults being killed by the virus is close to zero. The CDC number is about one in a million for 18-24 year olds. Keep the kids and teachers with severe underlying conditions home doing online courses and let the rest go about business.

You are using common sense...STOP THAT. We send age groups that are largely unaffected by this disease (in FL, zero fatalities under 25) away from their peers to live with their over 50 parents/ 70 grandparents to spread the disease rather than staying at school and building herd immunity. Then to compound the problem, we send knowingly infected people to nursing homes to to infect the most vulnerable part of the population. Lastly, we don't even test all incoming staff at these places so an infected worker can spread to the entire community. Yeh, I'm confident in our governors!!

 

[DayDayTFS]

It’s not about freedom, that’s just the easy argument... no matter what is done ppl in this country will always cry woe is me... wearing a mask isn’t just about the person wearing it...

 

[superjohn]

Closing schools makes no sense. The number of young adults being killed by the virus is close to zero. The CDC number is about one in a million for 18-24 year olds. Keep the kids and teachers with severe underlying conditions home doing online courses and let the rest go about business.

We have enough information on the ages of who dies. The #'s are miniscule for kids and just like with the elderly the young who die have comorbidities. There needs to be a risk/reward analysis for everything, I don't understand how destroying a generation of young people is worth it to save a miniscule amount of life. Teachers and students with serious health problems should stay home and we'll find another way to educate those students. Kids need to go back to school with safety measures in place.

 

[JimHurley]

Only because someone picked it up outside first. Once that happens they will transmit it at home regardless of whether there is a stay at home order or not. However, without stay at home they will also transmit it at work, restaurants and many other places.

Not with the use of PPE, social distancing, and common sense...restaurants utilizing outdoor only seating or leaving every other table open possess a low risk.

 

[navery12]

Lot of people who don't like talking politics getting awfully political in this thread

 

[Kemba15]

It didn't walk into their homes. Someone brought it in from outside transmission.

Which is why you do a better job of protecting the vulnerable while allowing others to get back to business. We can accomplish both.

 

[ZenConn]

COVID19 is a moving target so yes these particular goalposts are moving. The rest is a balance between preparation and priorities.

Indeed. C19 is a moving target and the longer this stays out in the wild, the more chance that it has for it to mutate and be more deadly. We should try our best to not spread this virus around just for the sake of exercising our freedoms. If anyone disregards this, they should be liable for the people they infect and waive the right for any public medical treatment.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Here are some of the terms people have used:

"completely defies all logic"

"insane"

"idiocy"

"goes to the extreme with everything"

Here's an explanation that suggests that this wasn't just a made up thing to provoke reactions, be crazy, or such. People's emotions can often erupt into their expressing themselves with exaggerated words. I don't think such words are accurate or helpful.

I don't know whether the Cal State closures are a good idea or a bad idea. I'm not surprised that there are conflicting reports, changes from prior decisions, and confusion.

Did anyone listen to the head of the system talk about it or is everyone just relying on headlines and being shocked? He said he is doing this to allow the most of time for preparation and decision making. It is not easy to shift an entire system (well almost entire because they will still allow in person learning is some certain cases) to distance learning. Doing this now allows for the professors to prepare to enable the best possible learning situation. Most already know how to teach in person and are on cruise control in the classroom. It is more difficult to switch from in person to distance learning than the other way around. This allows professors time to adjust and prepare and make the best possible learning situation. Also, allows the students to make a decision about their future. Rather than enrolling, paying, and then being blindsided with distance learning at the last minute, they can decide yes or no, and then not have to worry about residential arrangements, etc that may fall through at the last minute. They know what they are signing up for. He made good arguments for making the decision now...

 

[HobokenHusky]

Here are some of the terms people have used:

"completely defies all logic"

"insane"

"idiocy"

"goes to the extreme with everything"

Here's an explanation that suggests that this wasn't just a made up thing to provoke reactions, be crazy, or such. People's emotions can often erupt into their expressing themselves with exaggerated words. I don't think such words are accurate or helpful.

I don't know whether the Cal State closures are a good idea or a bad idea. I'm not surprised that there are conflicting reports, changes from prior decisions, and confusion.

That's all fine and good about the reasoning for making the decision this early, but it doesn't address the fact that there is no reasonable logic for even making the decision at all.

It's like defending a parent for the thoughtful way they went about telling their child they were not allowed to play sports, and ignoring the fact that the parent decided the kid couldn't play sports for "safety reasons" bc they stubbed their big toe during warm ups at the first practice.

 

[upstater]

obviously because they don't value freedom

They protest and complain about not being able to go out after a decade of watching Foxnews in a lazyboy 23 hours a day.

 

[ctchamps]

Exactly. This is nuts. To make a determination now, in the middle of May, is insane. California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, and New York are going to see mass protests real soon.

When you're out there protesting hold up a JimHurley sign so we can identify you.

 

[HuskyBandDad]

Did anyone listen to the head of the system talk about it or is everyone just relying on headlines and being shocked? He said he is doing this to allow the most of time for preparation and decision making. It is not easy to shift an entire system (well almost entire because they will still allow in person learning is some certain cases) to distance learning. Doing this now allows for the professors to prepare to enable the best possible learning situation. Most already know how to teach in person and are on cruise control in the classroom. It is more difficult to switch from in person to distance learning than the other way around. This allows professors time to adjust and prepare and make the best possible learning situation. Also, allows the students to make a decision about their future. Rather than enrolling, paying, and then being blindsided with distance learning at the last minute, they can decide yes or no, and then not have to worry about residential arrangements, etc that may fall through at the last minute. They know what they are signing up for. He made good arguments for making the decision now and living with it. Now for my additional take, I would think that that the Cal State program has a significant Asian population that will not allowed back into the country in August. This is a way for Cal State to receive payment and keep those students enrolled and able to “take classes” and more importantly pay. I may be wrong on that point as it’s my guess, but it’s a los easier to reach California from Asia than the east coast so it seems logical.

I'm not just picking on you (I'm also picking on @JimHurley, for example) , but, with all due respect, no one on this board has any idea what plates the decision makers in California are spinning. It may or may not be the case that they are jumping the gun and being overly cautious in canceling fall on-campus classes, but to definitively state that the decision is premature, or crazy, or anything else is completely baseless. (Unless you are actually involved in the decision in California. In that case I take it all back.)

p
Hey just a crazy idea. How about planning for both situations.
Fall classes don’t start for 3 months.
They shutdown and went online pretty quickly.
So why the rush to shut it all down now?

 

[ctchamps]

If they are upfront as to what their criteria is to reopen the economy and show progress in doing that, NY state has already said that portions of the state will be able to slowly reopen this weekend. If people want to be dumb and crowd beaches with no regard for each other then having to reclose down is the result.

There are multiple ways of looking at the same thing. Those people aren't dumb. They are brave. We should encourage more of them to congregate and have rallies and do so without masks. All these individuals will increase herd immunity.

People who think this is wrong should mass communicate to authorities to lock them up, lock them up. Outside of a vaccination or medicinal solution to minimize viral impacts this is the best solution. This will be retro to the sixties with the polar opposite political spectrum getting arrested.

 

[Get a Job]

Only because someone picked it up outside first. Once that happens they will transmit it at home regardless of whether there is a stay at home order or not. However, without stay at home they will also transmit it at work, restaurants and many other places.

Well said. People who parrot the statistic about most cases being found in people who are isolating seem to be indicating they are the smartest guys in the room, but really they are revealing how little they think about what they read. If most people are isolating, than of course many of the people who test positive will be people who were isolating. Now, if it is found that the infection rate is higher in homebound people vs. people who go out into public, that is a different story.

 

[JimHurley]

When you're out there protesting hold up a JimHurley sign so we can identify you.

No, my friend. The majority of those protesting are the ones who are not able to afford rent, put food on the table, or provide for their families. Those of us fortunate enough to still be working or to work from home (myself luckily) should be more open minded. A lot of people who still have jobs would feel differently if they were unable to provide for themselves or their families because their states want to stayed locked down until a vaccine comes along, all for a virus that effects mostly the elderly. We can still PROTECT the elderly and vulnerable while slowly getting people back to work. It's not a one variable issue.

 

[ctchamps]

Over constantly moving the goal posts on the length of stay at home orders.

You, @superjohn, @NJHusky and a couple of others are moving the goal posts by only talking about deaths and not discussing the intent of social isolation. The primary purpose is to flatten the curve of the disease and not overwhelm the medical system.

We are approaching the minimum requirements of PPE and ventilators but not there yet. We are even further behind with enough testing to do contact tracing.

You all seem to conveniently forget that a good number of people over 35 required hospitalization and intensive care. Certainly the majority of those people under 70 without pre existing conditions survived compared to that other group who are at a higher risk of dying. But that doesn't alleviate overwhelming our medical system.

We should all be upset with the vastly inadequate response to the outbreak. Not having enough tests is the problem and the only reason we are debating economics over medical.

 

[upstater]

Not having enough tests is the problem and the only reason we are debating economics over medical.

Precisely. Or heck, we could have dealt with the economics aspect much better by taking Fed. Gov. Bullards' advice to fund all private salaries for a period. That would have ended the economic devastation. There are solutions and answers. We are just incapable of applying them.

 

[JimHurley]

You, @superjohn, @NJHusky and a couple of others are moving the goal posts by only talking about deaths and not discussing the intent of social isolation. The primary purpose is to flatten the curve of the disease and not overwhelm the medical system.

We are approaching the minimum requirements of PPE and ventilators but not there yet. We are even further behind with enough testing to do contact tracing.

You all seem to conveniently forget that a good number of people over 35 required hospitalization and intensive care. Certainly the majority of those people under 70 without pre existing conditions survived compared to that other group who are at a higher risk of dying. But that doesn't alleviate overwhelming our medical system.

We should all be upset with the vastly inadequate response to the outbreak. Not having enough tests is problem and the only reason we are debating economics over medical.

The curve has been flattened. The medical system is as far from overwhelmed as it gets. Hospitals are going bankrupt, nurses are getting laid off. This is because other procedures are being put off and people are scared to go to the doctor. I work in healthcare economics and I can tell you hospitals are reporting that there are FAR more available hospital beds than reported cases of the virus.

Not having enough tests is a problem, but testing is also overrated. Are we supposed to test every human every time they leave their house? Think about the number of tests we'd need to be considered sufficient. I guarantee that number of tests is not even a possibility. It is literally not possible to test everyone on a regular basis. We have 330,000,000 people in the country. Even if 1 in 4 people leave their house, are we going to conduct 75,000,000 tests daily? Not even remotely possible.