Calhoun vs. Ollie

[mauconnfan]

You're right about it being 3rd grade level. Trying to dumb things down to be commensurate with the IQ level of this board.

While I like the idea and where you're going just be careful with the general assumption of the IQ level. As you can see there are many who prefer KO to have already been removed from the HC job so many of the facts and arguments in support of him fall on deaf ears. Don't waste too much time in other words just get ready for the year and hope they play well.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

I just think the comparison is dumb. Calhoun had a whole history of coaching at Northeastern prior to coming to Uconn and essentially building the team from scratch. Ollie had what? 2 years as an assistant under his belt to then coach a team that had at least a foundation? I just dont think its a good comparison.

 

[WhiteDressWes]

Who will be your replacement of choice and will they want to come coach at UCONN? Why will they leave there current coaching position to come to UCONN?

This discussion should include the established programs who had to replace the Bobby Knights, Jud Heathcotes and John Woodens. With all of their resources, relative to UConn, how can their degree of success predict how KO's replacement(s) will fare in a conference where even the top teams have mediocre talent.

 

[Javjudah]

This discussion should include the established programs who had to replace the Bobby Knights, Jud Heathcotes and John Woodens. With all of their resources, relative to UConn, how can their degree of success predict how KO's replacement(s) will fare in a conference where even the top teams have mediocre talent.

EXACTLY

 

[HawkHusky]

Who will be your replacement of choice and will they want to come coach at UCONN? Why will they leave there current coaching position to come to UCONN?

LOL. Are you really worried that we wouldn't be able to find someone better or that no one on our "shortlist" would want to come to UCONN??? Let's start off by eliminating any current P5 or Big East coach, just for argument's sake (even though UCONN would be able to land a fair share of them).

At that point, we would have missed the tourney 3 out of 5 years. You don't think Hurley out of URI, Joe Dooley out of FGCU, Will Wade out of VCU, or Kermit Davis out of MTSU could bat above .400 in tourney bids if given UCONN's brand and resources? And you're really reaching by thinking the majority of those guys wouldn't give their left nut to be HC at UCONN.

By the end of next season, we'll know exactly what Ollie is capable of. If he fails yet again, then I'd much rather put my faith in an unknown entity than the same ole * we've come accustomed to post-2014.

 

[Mr. French]

I just think the comparison is dumb. Calhoun had a whole history of coaching at Northeastern prior to coming to Uconn and essentially building the team from scratch. Ollie had what? 2 years as an assistant under his belt to then coach a team that had at least a foundation? I just dont think its a good comparison.

How many comparisons are exactly the same in all aspects and details? Hint: The answer is not many, if any.

Your point is valid, but that doesn't mean every comparison is flawed, you can still compare the two and their respective situations.

Some ways, Calhoun's start was tougher; in some ways, Ollie's was. There's no direct comparison, but that doesn't mean it can't be discussed.

 

[Javjudah]

LOL. Are you really worried that we wouldn't be able to find someone better or that no one on our "shortlist" would want to come to UCONN??? Let's start off by eliminating any current P5 or Big East coach, just for argument's sake (even though UCONN would be able to land a fair share of them).

At that point, we would have missed the tourney 3 out of 5 years. You don't think Hurley out of URI, Joe Dooley out of FGCU, Will Wade out of VCU, or Kermit Davis out of MTSU could bat above .400 in tourney bids if given UCONN's brand and resources? And you're really reaching by thinking the majority of those guys wouldn't give their left nut to be HC at UCONN.

By the end of next season, we'll know exactly what Ollie is capable of. If he fails yet again, then I'd much rather put my faith in an unknown entity than the same ole **** we've come accustomed to post-2014.

So you're saying those coaches are better than or are that much better than our coach? Lol

 

[Stainmaster]

LOL. Are you really worried that we wouldn't be able to find someone better or that no one on our "shortlist" would want to come to UCONN??? Let's start off by eliminating any current P5 or Big East coach, just for argument's sake (even though UCONN would be able to land a fair share of them).

At that point, we would have missed the tourney 3 out of 5 years. You don't think Hurley out of URI, Joe Dooley out of FGCU, Will Wade out of VCU, or Kermit Davis out of MTSU could bat above .400 in tourney bids if given UCONN's brand and resources? And you're really reaching by thinking the majority of those guys wouldn't give their left nut to be HC at UCONN.

By the end of next season, we'll know exactly what Ollie is capable of. If he fails yet again, then I'd much rather put my faith in an unknown entity than the same ole **** we've come accustomed to post-2014.

Will Wade left VCU for LSU, a worse program in a more prestigious conference with a P5-caliber budget. That trend will continue to happen with coaches we want/are looking at.

 

[pj]

All these threads and no one has identified the real problem.

Ollie is staking his job on trying to win in a way that is very different than how this program has won in the past.

We have no meaningful interior game and it seems like he's cool with that. Instead, focusing on interchangeable perimeter players.

Like Diaco with too many tight ends. Ollie is building his roster with 2's, 3's, and 4's who want to play as 3's.

Has that ever won? Has this program ever won without stout interior defense and rebounding? He may be right or wrong but it is fair to question this strategy.

What are you talking about? The 2017-18 roster has 6 big men whose game doesn't extend more than 5 feet from the basket, 2 small forwards (Larrier, Polley), and 4 guards (Adams, Vital, Gilbert, Anderson). Half the roster is given over to the interior game.

Moreover of the guards 3 are point guards. There's only 3 players who fit your description of "2's, 3's, and 4's who want to play as 3's".

 

[Javjudah]

What are you talking about? The 2017-18 roster has 6 big men whose game doesn't extend more than 5 feet from the basket, 2 small forwards (Larrier, Polley), and 4 guards (Adams, Vital, Gilbert, Anderson). Half the roster is given over to the interior game.

Moreover of the guards 3 are point guards. There's only 3 players who fit your description of "2's, 3's, and 4's who want to play as 3's".

This season will mostly consist of a 3 guard lineup with Larrier playing most of his minutes at the 4. Fast pace, up and down.

 

[LStudfellow]

This is true.

But also: I have no doubt that if the Boneyard was around during/after the 92/93 season, there would have been multiple threads calling for Calhoun to be fired and replaced with that hotshot young coach from UMass.


FWIW I'm rooting for him to turn it around this season. I believe in his passion for the school, I believe he's a better coach than a lot of folks here give him credit for, and I want his success to be part of Calhoun's legacy (as well as his own, obviously).

Actually Matrim, I believe the real test for most people on the Boneyard would have been the fallout after the 1996 loss to Mississippi State, which led to the next year (1996/1997) which was arguably Calhoun's worst between 1990 and his retirement (last in the Big East 6 division and a rather unsightly 18-15 record which was 14-14 before a nice run to 3rd place in the NIT). Yes, that was the freshman year of Rip, KFree and Jake V, the nucleus to our eventual 1st Title - but no one knew that then.

As longer term fans might recall (even those who now point to the 1990 to 2014 25 years of UConn basketball as if every year was filled with great results and NCAA tournament bids) there were actually quite a few people who thought Calhoun had gotten us as far as he was going to get us and needed to be replaced. The losses in consecutive years to Florida, UCLA and Miss St. in the NCAA tournament were disheartening and frustrating... particularly the Florida and Miss St. losses - games we were supposed to win and were supposed to be stepping stones to our first Final 4. I remember that time well, as I had quite a few debates/arguments with people about whether JC could ever break us through the Final 4 glass ceiling. And I always tried to remind those people what it was like during the wasteland of the Perno years... I believed in Calhoun then, and we all know how that turned out.

I guarantee you that some of the anti-Ollie guys on here now were also anti-Calhoun during that 20-month trough from March of 1996 through the summer of 1997... they just probably would never admit it now. They had plenty of ammunition against him, and they most certainly used it as part of the rather loud "get rid of Calhoun" crowd at that time.

That is one of the main reasons I stick by Ollie now. I do not lose perspective of the truth of where we were, and how we got here. He has definitely taken a significant step back in both coaching and being able to close on top recruits over the last 12 to 18 months. Those things combined with the injuries and often disjointed play (also largely on him), helped lead to last year's debacle.

But with his love and loyalty for our school, his passion for doing right by his players and Coach Calhoun's legacy, and the fact he has shown the ability to successfully navigate the NCAA tournament I like yourself and many others on here hope he figures it out and brings us back to a level of consistency where we are challenging and winning conference championships combined with multiple opportunities for significant runs in March.

 

[Matrim55]

Actually Matrim, I believe the real test for most people on the Boneyard would have been the fallout after the 1996 loss to Mississippi State, which led to the next year (1996/1997) which was arguably Calhoun's worst between 1990 and his retirement (last in the Big East 6 division and a rather unsightly 18-15 record which was 14-14 before a nice run to 3rd place in the NIT). Yes, that was the freshman year of Rip, KFree and Jake V, the nucleus to our eventual 1st Title - but no one knew that then.

Perhaps – you definitely make some good points here. But that 92/93 team is the only UConn team I can remember that straight up quit on their coach over the last 30 years. They really did give up, and none of the guys who were "supposed to" improve, did improve.

That's the big difference between that season and 96/97. I was a sophomore in 96/97 and I remember the whole campus being pretty jazzed about the NIT run, and the fact that the team was playing better at the end of the season than they had during the meat of the schedule. Totally the opposite from 92/93, which ended a four year run that saw us go from Elite 8 > Sweet 16 > Round of 32 > eliminated in NIT opener. Yuck.

 

[Chief00]

We would, but part of that would be "Oh, after a 4th championship the program must be trending upwards."

The fact that we beat freaking Kentucky for our 4th title in just KO's 2nd year and we really didn't make anything of that re: program building and sustainability (with regard to recruiting and player retention) is a major concern. Just as it's unfair for folks to paint KO's time as head coach as a complete disaster, it's unfair to pretend there aren't legitimate and potentially catastrophic worries out there with the way things are going.

Agreed, seems like we did too much celebrating and not enough recruiting after the 2014 Championship. It's clear we did not capitalize on that special event and there was no apparent plan to do so.

 

[Chief00]

What are you talking about? The 2017-18 roster has 6 big men whose game doesn't extend more than 5 feet from the basket, 2 small forwards (Larrier, Polley), and 4 guards (Adams, Vital, Gilbert, Anderson). Half the roster is given over to the interior game.

Moreover of the guards 3 are point guards. There's only 3 players who fit your description of "2's, 3's, and 4's who want to play as 3's".

In truth, none of the Bigs are proven serviceable players. One or two may actually turn into good players but it's unknown at this time.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

Actually Matrim, I believe the real test for most people on the Boneyard would have been the fallout after the 1996 loss to Mississippi State, which led to the next year (1996/1997) which was arguably Calhoun's worst between 1990 and his retirement (last in the Big East 6 division and a rather unsightly 18-15 record which was 14-14 before a nice run to 3rd place in the NIT). Yes, that was the freshman year of Rip, KFree and Jake V, the nucleus to our eventual 1st Title - but no one knew that then.

As longer term fans might recall (even those who now point to the 1990 to 2014 25 years of UConn basketball as if every year was filled with great results and NCAA tournament bids) there were actually quite a few people who thought Calhoun had gotten us as far as he was going to get us and needed to be replaced. The losses in consecutive years to Florida, UCLA and Miss St. in the NCAA tournament were disheartening and frustrating... particularly the Florida and Miss St. losses - games we were supposed to win and were supposed to be stepping stones to our first Final 4. I remember that time well, as I had quite a few debates/arguments with people about whether JC could ever break us through the Final 4 glass ceiling. And I always tried to remind those people what it was like during the wasteland of the Perno years... I believed in Calhoun then, and we all know how that turned out.

I guarantee you that some of the anti-Ollie guys on here now were also anti-Calhoun during that 20-month trough from March of 1996 through the summer of 1997... they just probably would never admit it now. They had plenty of ammunition against him, and they most certainly used it as part of the rather loud "get rid of Calhoun" crowd at that time.

That is one of the main reasons I stick by Ollie now. I do not lose perspective of the truth of where we were, and how we got here. He has definitely taken a significant step back in both coaching and being able to close on top recruits over the last 12 to 18 months. Those things combined with the injuries and often disjointed play (also largely on him), helped lead to last year's debacle.

But with his love and loyalty for our school, his passion for doing right by his players and Coach Calhoun's legacy, and the fact he has shown the ability to successfully navigate the NCAA tournament I like yourself and many others on here hope he figures it out and brings us back to a level of consistency where we are challenging and winning conference championships combined with multiple opportunities for significant runs in March.

Except Uconn had no history of winning championships prior to 99', now we've won 4.

 

[HawkHusky]

So you're saying those coaches are better than or are that much better than our coach? Lol

Neither you nor I have any idea who is "better." I'm just not willing to stick with the status quo of making the tourney 40% of the time. I guess we have different expectations for the program.

 

[HawkHusky]

Will Wade left VCU for LSU, a worse program in a more prestigious conference with a P5-caliber budget. That trend will continue to happen with coaches we want/are looking at.

UCONN can easily compete with the P5 dregs when it comes to coaching salary. Not sure your point here...

 

[Hurleyman216]

Neither you nor I have any idea who is "better." I'm just not willing to stick with the status quo of making the tourney 40% of the time. I guess we have different expectations for the program.

Stop skewing facts...Ollie has coached 4 seasons in which he could make the tournament and he made it 2 out of 4 times (that's 50%). Name one other current head coach who has a 7-1 record in the NCAA tournament...you can't.

 

[Stainmaster]

UCONN can easily compete with the P5 dregs when it comes to coaching salary. Not sure your point here...

Not going forward we can't. The revenue gap will become much larger than it currently is.

 

[LStudfellow]

Perhaps – you definitely make some good points here. But that 92/93 team is the only UConn team I can remember that straight up quit on their coach over the last 30 years. They really did give up, and none of the guys who were "supposed to" improve, did improve.

That's the big difference between that season and 96/97. I was a sophomore in 96/97 and I remember the whole campus being pretty jazzed about the NIT run, and the fact that the team was playing better at the end of the season than they had during the meat of the schedule. Totally the opposite from 92/93, which ended a four year run that saw us go from Elite 8 > Sweet 16 > Round of 32 > eliminated in NIT opener. Yuck.

Good point - but I also remember what it was like after that Mississippi State loss in particular. A 7-year run of 6 NCAA tournaments that looks great now in 20/20 hindsight, but at the time people were really questioning Calhoun's ability to get over the Elite 8 hump after the way everything went down. For example, most UConn fans (including me) looked at that loss in 1994 to Florida as a killer because if we win that game we would have played Boston College, whom we were in the midst of dominating at that time (13 wins in a row at that point on the way to 23 over the span of 12 years or so), we all thought we would win and get to the Final 4. Facing UCLA, the eventual National Champion, in California in 1995 was an unfortunate match up, although we put up a good fight... but then to follow that up in 1996 with the Sweet 16 clunker against a 5th seeded Mississippi State team who we all thought we should clearly have beaten? A lot of anti-Calhoun sentiment at the time.

I would still say that time, followed by the last place finish in 1996-1997, was the most negative time for the fan base during the Calhoun tenure before our first Final 4/NC... at least for those fans outside of you guys on campus at the time.

 

[Javjudah]

Neither you nor I have any idea who is "better." I'm just not willing to stick with the status quo of making the tourney 40% of the time. I guess we have different expectations for the program.

I will take the guy with a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP under his belt over any of those. I guess you're right, our expectations are different. What have they won??

 

[LStudfellow]

Except Uconn had no history of winning championships prior to 99', now we've won 4.

Except... you missed the point of the discussion between Matrim and myself. Matrim mentioned a time (1992-1993) when some members in this current iteration of the Boneyard would have been taking shots at Coach Calhoun. I mentioned another (end of 1995-1996 season to beginning of 1997-1998 season). You might not have been a UConn fan during those times, I have no idea... but I certainly was. And I remember there was a rather strong and vocal group of UConn fans (and a few in the media) who were talking about UConn needed to consider replacing Coach Calhoun... that he could not get us past the Elite 8, that his teams did not run championship-caliber offensive schemes...

The point is - today, everyone talks about the Calhoun era like it was all roses and ice cream... and that is not the truth of how those 26 years evolved. There were several points in time where people were dissatisfied with Coach Calhoun, as well. And if the Boneyard existed then as it does now... I guarantee you (and I surmise that Matrim does, also) that you would have witnessed a lot more anti-Calhoun sentiment than you think now looking back.

 

[mauconnfan]

LOL. Are you really worried that we wouldn't be able to find someone better or that no one on our "shortlist" would want to come to UCONN??? Let's start off by eliminating any current P5 or Big East coach, just for argument's sake (even though UCONN would be able to land a fair share of them).

At that point, we would have missed the tourney 3 out of 5 years. You don't think Hurley out of URI, Joe Dooley out of FGCU, Will Wade out of VCU, or Kermit Davis out of MTSU could bat above .400 in tourney bids if given UCONN's brand and resources? And you're really reaching by thinking the majority of those guys wouldn't give their left nut to be HC at UCONN.

By the end of next season, we'll know exactly what Ollie is capable of. If he fails yet again, then I'd much rather put my faith in an unknown entity than the same ole **** we've come accustomed to post-2014.

No none of those guys intrigue me. We have a coach and he's coaching this year so he's my guy until he fails. Then we can have this discussion although like others I'm hoping you're disappointed.

 

[mauconnfan]

In truth, none of the Bigs are proven serviceable players. One or two may actually turn into good players but it's unknown at this time.

Good news is if the others did stay we still wouldn't have anyone proven to be serviceable unless of course you saw different games than I?

 

[SouthBayHusky]

You're right, it's been a crazy fall off with Ollie only winning an NCAA Championship in 20% of the seasons he's coached. Calhoun didn't exactly hand the program to Ollie in pristine condition, but we have a lot of fans with amnesia on this board. People should be more pissed at Warde Manuel and Susan Herbst for botching the conference realignment, but I guess Ollie will be their fall guy instead.

Stop. So by your same math making the tournament at a school like Uconn 33% of the time is stellar performance for man being paid $3 million a year If we don't make the tournament this year (which we're not expected to make) that would mean Ollie has a whopping 25% success rate in making the flipping tournament