Calhoun never lost to teams like this | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Calhoun never lost to teams like this

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I wish people would get over Ollie's facial expressions. I really don't think that is going to turn the tide for us.
 
temery said:
Duke and Kentucky have first world basketball problems. UConn has 2nd world problems in s 3rd world league.
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Clever. But out of context. The original point that I was responding to was about Kevin Ollie's challenges (no head coaching experience, post season ban, move to AAC) in his first two years not UConn's current situation. Getting his first head coaching gig as the UConn coach after only couple of years of assistant experience at his alma mater coming off of 2 , 1 NC in the previous four years and a team that would take him to an NC in his second year isn't a challenge of any world. It's like being the only winner in a giant powerball lottery of coaching.
 
David 76 said:
I wish people would get over Ollie's facial expressions. I really don't think that is going to turn the tide for us.
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Body language is important. Ollie acts like a sad sack on the bench.
 
Sonova said:
Clever. But out of context. The original point that I was responding to was about Kevin Ollie's challenges (no head coaching experience, post season ban, move to AAC) in his first two years not UConn's current situation. Getting his first head coaching gig as the UConn coach after only couple of years of assistant experience at his alma mater coming off of 2 , 1 NC in the previous four years and a team that would take him to an NC in his second year isn't a challenge of any world. It's like being the only winner in a giant powerball lottery of coaching.
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Oh.
 
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bob15 said:
Wow, you guys don't remember the early years when they would lose to teams like: Hartford, Yale, BU, St Peters or go the season with 3 or 4 conference wins.
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The early days ? Was that when the UConn was thought to be a major national program ? Uh, no.

You seriously cannot even consider ANY loss under Calhoun to be a "WTF" loss until at least 1988 or 1989, but I would say it had to be after 1990 at least.
 
Calhoun had his share of bad losses. Every coach has them.
 
Jim Calhoun is heads and shoulders a better coach. Ollie in my opinion is an excellent recruiter, with average coaching ability. Calhoun's teams did all of the little things, Defended, Rebounded, and were prepared for games. Ollie's teams do NOT, they have trouble rebounding, trouble defending the 3, and run very stagnant offensive sets. Ollie's teams have not figured out how to attack a zone because Ollie's offenses is an NBA isolation offense that is predicated by the ball handler having the ability to break down his man. This is difficult against the zone and even more difficult if you do not have Shabazz or Boat at the point. In 26 seasons at UConn Jim Calhoun had 6 WTF loses. 6!
'86-87 (First Year) Yale and BU
'93-94 Ohio
'00-01 Dayton- Dayton is a stretch as they have had good teams
'01-02 St. Bonaventure
'11-12 UCF


In 3+ seasons Kevin Ollie has already had 6 WTF loses and still hasn't beaten Houston. This isn't Phi Slamma Jamma either!

'13-14 Houston
'14-15 Yale, Houston
'15-16 Houston
'16-17 Wagner, Northeastern

Now with that being said, Ollie is one of a very few coaches that is able to recruit at a P5 level in this terrible conference. This team is very young and will grow. I'll take Ollie's ability to recruit any day, as even Jim Calhoun had some very tough seasons at Northeastern.
 
I think many of you are missing the fact that college basketball is not the same sport it was 25-30 years ago. The players are bigger, stronger, quicker. The rules have been adjusted to favor the offense. And simply, there are more good skilled players now. The game has evolved. There is more parity now and games are not going to be as predictable. So one cannot just simply compare KO to Coach Calhoun. It's illogical.
 
UConn_Top_Dog said:
I think many of you are missing the fact that college basketball is not the same sport it was 25-30 years ago. The players are bigger, stronger, quicker. The rules have been adjusted to favor the offense. And simply, there are more good skilled players now. The game has evolved. There is more parity now and games are not going to be as predictable. So one cannot just simply compare KO to Coach Calhoun. It's illogical.
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It seems to me that most are in violent agreement that JC and KO shouldn't be compared. Because they aren't in the same stratosphere of ability/talent. Not because of some different era theory. Jim Calhoun would win today. Just like K, Boeheim, Izzo, Pitino. Good coaches (and the aforementioned are beyond "good") adjust and if anything, their value increases. Their teams have an identity, they execute, they (generally) get the most out of their team based on its overall composition, and, the players get better under their tutelage. KO's teams have done none of that these last few years.

The good news is that Kevin Ollie doesn't have to be as good as Jim Calhoun. But he's just gotten out coached by coaches/programs that he does need to be better than. And coaches who make much less and have far less resources and talent. And that's a big problem. And that's been a somewhat subtle theme during KO's tenure. Guys like Larry Brown, Fran Dunphy, Mick Cronin and Kelvin Sampson to a lesser degree have outcoached him despite having less (in some cases) or comparable talent. And while the KO supporters will understandably point to Izzo twice, Billy Donovan twice, Jay Wright and John Calipari in his first two seasons, those are sure looking like the exception rather than the rule. He was running Jim Calhoun's schemes with Jim Calhoun's recruits and it showed. As he's shifted to his players and his schemes....

And sorry, I can't shake the statement that ere are more good skilled players today. Not in the college game in my opinion. Call me old school (or just old), but imho there were MANY more good, skilled players 10-20 years ago in college basketball (maybe even in pro basketball) than there are today. Look at the draft. You can't give away a second round pick anymore (sometimes even non lottery picks) because the talent is so watered down. Guys enter the draft with very little readiness for the NBA. Athletes in general (and in all sports) continue to get bigger, stronger, faster as a result of specialized training, nutrition, etc. but more good skilled players? Not to these eyes. Blame it on early entry. Blame it on AAU. Blame it on David Stern if you want. But the caliber of basketball from a fundamentals, skills and team aspect in the 80s, 90s and 00s is so above the product on the court today. And in the college ranks, the teams that we had that didn't make the final four in the 90s (94, 95, 96) and the 2000s (02, 06) would maybe run the table in today's day and age. Lots of schools could say that btw. The product, in general, is a far cry what it once was. Is there more parity? Sure but there's always more teams that are mediocre vs good/great in any era. And with good players leaving top programs early, mid and low major schools that have four year cores can compete. And, thankfully for the month of March, the NCAA tournament is a foolproof formula that benefits from parity and general mediocrity...unless excellence and a high level of play is what you base success and enetertainment value on.
 
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If Ollie can coach Calhoun's recruits to a national championship, but not his own, why isn't the problem his recruiting instead of coaching?
 
temery said:
If Ollie can coach Calhoun's recruits to a national championship, but not his own, why isn't the problem his recruiting instead of coaching?
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I think the real question is, why did he abandon the Jim Calhoun system? He talks "UConn" like its an inherited culture. Culture is an output not an input. Jim Calhoun's UConn was a program with a culture of mental and physical toughness that existed in all of his teams (Some incredibly talented. Some not so much). People used to talk about UConn imposing its will on other teams. About playing hard for 40 minutes. About relentless defense. About all five guys crashing the glass. Practices and the intensity of them were legendary and were a part of almost every national broadcast as the announcers couldn't believe how hard the team would work on Fridays and shoot arounds etc. The rebounding drills alone were brutal...and as a result, we were a terrific tough-minded rebounding teams on BOTH ends of the floor. I recall more than one opposing coach and announcers saying that sometimes UConn's best offense was a missed shot because we ruthlessly attacked the glass. We set picks and guys ran off them. We were terrific going to the basket with contact. We practiced all of those things full speed every day. As a result, we were ready come gametime.

Watch us now. We don't attack the rim with contact - we look to avoid it. We don't set screens. We don't fight over the top of screens on defense (which is why we give up a ton of open three point attempts). We don't really play at full speed beyond a fast break. And we sure don't rebound...in fact we retreat on the offensive glass unless we're in a desperate point in the game. And we don't get in good position on the defensive end - count the number of actual box outs next game.

Kevin's style Is an NBA approach (today, it's euphemistically called a player's coach. Jim Calhoun was never (ever) called that) and I'm not really talking about his offensive sets alone. Teams play an 82 game schedule and thus they really can't play all out every night or every play. Ever watch teams attack the offensive glass in the NBA? No. Because they concede the rebound 85% of time for a bunch of reasons that aren't germane to the college game. Picks, defense, etc. it's a similar theme. So is that what Kevin runs? Yeah. I think so. The Kevin Ollie that returned to UConn was an NBA KO that learned a lot about how to be a professional player for 13 years. Not the Kevin Ollie that would get trapped in JC's rebounding drill until exhaustion. If you've been fortunate enough to see both Calhoun practices and Ollie practices...we play like we practice. I'll leave it at that.
 
Deadrody said:
The early days ? Was that when the UConn was thought to be a major national program ? Uh, no.

You seriously cannot even consider ANY loss under Calhoun to be a "WTF" loss until at least 1988 or 1989, but I would say it had to be after 1990 at least.
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What about the exhibition game loss to Marathon Oil back 1993?
 
No one is saying Ollie is as good a coach as Calhoun. Really Calhoun is irrelevant to Ollie's problems.
No one is saying that Ollie is not struggling.
We 're just tired of the "fire him!' Over-reaction and the irrelevant WWJCD?
 
Rewriting history.

Sonova said:
I think the real question is, why did he abandon the Jim Calhoun system? He talks "UConn" like its an inherited culture. Culture is an output not an input. Jim Calhoun's UConn was a program with a culture of mental and physical toughness that existed in all of his teams (Some incredibly talented. Some not so much). People used to talk about UConn imposing its will on other teams. About playing hard for 40 minutes. About relentless defense. About all five guys crashing the glass. Practices and the intensity of them were legendary and were a part of almost every national broadcast as the announcers couldn't believe how hard the team would work on Fridays and shoot arounds etc. The rebounding drills alone were brutal...and as a result, we were a terrific tough-minded rebounding teams on BOTH ends of the floor. I recall more than one opposing coach and announcers saying that sometimes UConn's best offense was a missed shot because we ruthlessly attacked the glass. We set picks and guys ran off them. We were terrific going to the basket with contact. We practiced all of those things full speed every day. As a result, we were ready come gametime.

Watch us now. We don't attack the rim with contact - we look to avoid it. We don't set screens. We don't fight over the top of screens on defense (which is why we give up a ton of open three point attempts). We don't really play at full speed beyond a fast break. And we sure don't rebound...in fact we retreat on the offensive glass unless we're in a desperate point in the game. And we don't get in good position on the defensive end - count the number of actual box outs next game.

Kevin's style Is an NBA approach (today, it's euphemistically called a player's coach. Jim Calhoun was never (ever) called that) and I'm not really talking about his offensive sets alone. Teams play an 82 game schedule and thus they really can't play all out every night or every play. Ever watch teams attack the offensive glass in the NBA? No. Because they concede the rebound 85% of time for a bunch of reasons that aren't germane to the college game. Picks, defense, etc. it's a similar theme. So is that what Kevin runs? Yeah. I think so. The Kevin Ollie that returned to UConn was an NBA KO that learned a lot about how to be a professional player for 13 years. Not the Kevin Ollie that would get trapped in JC's rebounding drill until exhaustion. If you've been fortunate enough to see both Calhoun practices and Ollie practices...we play like we practice. I'll leave it at that.
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Sonova said:
I think the real question is, why did he abandon the Jim Calhoun system? He talks "UConn" like its an inherited culture. Culture is an output not an input. Jim Calhoun's UConn was a program with a culture of mental and physical toughness that existed in all of his teams (Some incredibly talented. Some not so much). People used to talk about UConn imposing its will on other teams. About playing hard for 40 minutes. About relentless defense. About all five guys crashing the glass. Practices and the intensity of them were legendary and were a part of almost every national broadcast as the announcers couldn't believe how hard the team would work on Fridays and shoot arounds etc. The rebounding drills alone were brutal...and as a result, we were a terrific tough-minded rebounding teams on BOTH ends of the floor. I recall more than one opposing coach and announcers saying that sometimes UConn's best offense was a missed shot because we ruthlessly attacked the glass. We set picks and guys ran off them. We were terrific going to the basket with contact. We practiced all of those things full speed every day. As a result, we were ready come gametime.

Watch us now. We don't attack the rim with contact - we look to avoid it. We don't set screens. We don't fight over the top of screens on defense (which is why we give up a ton of open three point attempts). We don't really play at full speed beyond a fast break. And we sure don't rebound...in fact we retreat on the offensive glass unless we're in a desperate point in the game. And we don't get in good position on the defensive end - count the number of actual box outs next game.

Kevin's style Is an NBA approach (today, it's euphemistically called a player's coach. Jim Calhoun was never (ever) called that) and I'm not really talking about his offensive sets alone. Teams play an 82 game schedule and thus they really can't play all out every night or every play. Ever watch teams attack the offensive glass in the NBA? No. Because they concede the rebound 85% of time for a bunch of reasons that aren't germane to the college game. Picks, defense, etc. it's a similar theme. So is that what Kevin runs? Yeah. I think so. The Kevin Ollie that returned to UConn was an NBA KO that learned a lot about how to be a professional player for 13 years. Not the Kevin Ollie that would get trapped in JC's rebounding drill until exhaustion. If you've been fortunate enough to see both Calhoun practices and Ollie practices...we play like we practice. I'll leave it at that.
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This is getting crazy. Putting aside all the factual inaccuracies and, frankly, laughable revisionist history in your post - concerning Calhoun, the NBA, and a host of other topics - we are really going overboard with our attempts to diagnose this thing.
 
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Milo65 said:
In 3+ seasons Kevin Ollie has already had 6 WTF loses and still hasn't beaten Houston.
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Jan. 17, 2016 UConn 69, Houston 57
Jan. 30, 2014 UConn 80, Houston 43
 
weyuo said:
With the amount of talent on this team there is no reason why there shouldn't have been 2 blow outs and Sports Center in a quandary as to which spectacular plays to show. What is Ollie's coaching staff doing? Why is Freeman, Moore and Killings on the staff? What do they bring to the table?

Where is Jim Calhoun?
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You are the scoreboard and your record.
 
temery said:
If Ollie can coach Calhoun's recruits to a national championship, but not his own, why isn't the problem his recruiting instead of coaching?
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I think it's his inability to identify potential strong Bigs with an attitude. I also think the S&C coach needs to be changed and our Bigs coach. Both have had plenty of time to produce results. Another problem is not recruiting shooters. To spread the court like he wants to, you need to shoot.
 
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