Caitlin Clark Scoring Record Watch

[bballnut90]

Not exactly a fair response. Bluder has designed her team around a shooter and a scrappy defense, and she did an excellent job. That’s not how Geno recruits and coaches. He has different vision of the game.

It’s not a binary situation. There’s more than one way to coach. And at UConn the system isn’t set up to feature scorers. That was my answer to the question. Do you seriously think any different? If so, explain yourself.

I think UCONN's system is often set up to prioritize certain players depending on roster makeup. Like any coach, Geno tries to build a great offense considering the talent and skills of the players on his roster.

Some years that means very balanced starting lineups when he has ample talent across the board (ex. most championship seasons), but other years he does build his offense specifically around individual players if he feels that will best help his team. I think we largely saw that in 2021 when Paige was the focal point of the team, 2019 it was KLS/Collier, and in 2011 when Maya was head and shoulders better than her teammates and was called upon more to take shots and score. If the stars don't have a strong supporting cast, he rides the stars like any good coach would. Specifically looking at Maya Moore, she was never a ball dominant player or creator off the dribble, but still took 17 shots a game her senior year (including 30 her last game). The offense was clearly build around her to produce because Geno felt that was the best way to help the team win games. Bluder does the same, she builds her offense around what she think will be most successful, and for her riding Clark and having her be ball dominant has been most effective for Iowa's success the last 4 years.

 

[Bone Dog]

I think UCONN's system is often set up to prioritize certain players depending on roster makeup. Like any coach, Geno tries to build a great offense considering the talent and skills of the players on his roster.

Some years that means very balanced starting lineups when he has ample talent across the board (ex. most championship seasons), but other years he does build his offense specifically around individual players if he feels that will best help his team. I think we largely saw that in 2021 when Paige was the focal point of the team, 2019 it was KLS/Collier, and in 2011 when Maya was head and shoulders better than her teammates and was called upon more to take shots and score. If the stars don't have a strong supporting cast, he rides the stars like any good coach would. Specifically looking at Maya Moore, she was never a ball dominant player or creator off the dribble, but still took 17 shots a game her senior year (including 30 her last game). The offense was clearly build around her to produce because Geno felt that was the best way to help the team win games. Bluder does the same, she builds her offense around what she think will be most successful, and for her riding Clark and having her be ball dominant has been most effective for Iowa's success the last 4 years.

This is a more reasonable response. Of course, any coach has to be flexible and build around the talent they can recruit. It would be absurd to attribute any other opinion to me or any other BYer.

That said, we also know Geno recruits for a certain type of player — and by that I mean someone who’s willing to play team defense. And someone who knows they have to earn playing time in practice. And his offense tends to be structured and distributed to favor multiple scoring threats. This limits who he can get to come to Storrs but also has allowed him to build a consistent team culture over several decades.

To illustrate this, Saylor Poffenbarger gave an interview last year in which she explained why she transferred out. She said the offense was too structured for her taste. She complained that Geno required them to move in certain ways and to get to certain positions on the floor, and she found this oppressive.

A good coach can build a winning team around players who want less structure on offense and defense. But it’s less clear that they can build a dynasty this way.

All of this is to say that Geno’s coaching doesn’t tend to favor players setting scoring records. It’s not impossible — obviously — but it’s not what his approach is designed for.

 

[Plebe]

Clark's 38 points tonight (including 9 of 16 from 3) vs. Cleveland State moved her ahead of Ashley Joens into 9th place on the NCAA all-time scoring list, at 3,079 points.

She's now 14 points behind 8th-place Rachel Banham (3,093) and 448 points behind Kelsey Plum (3,527). She's on pace to catch Plum roughly mid- to late February.

 

[bballnut90]

Another 35 point triple double for Clark, plus a career high 17 rebounds. Up to 3,114 points for her career and #7 all time. Next game she'll likely jump to 5th all time, just behind the great Brittney Griner.

 

[uconnfan68]

This is a more reasonable response. Of course, any coach has to be flexible and build around the talent they can recruit. It would be absurd to attribute any other opinion to me or any other BYer.

That said, we also know Geno recruits for a certain type of player — and by that I mean someone who’s willing to play team defense. And someone who knows they have to earn playing time in practice. And his offense tends to be structured and distributed to favor multiple scoring threats. This limits who he can get to come to Storrs but also has allowed him to build a consistent team culture over several decades.

To illustrate this, Saylor Poffenbarger gave an interview last year in which she explained why she transferred out. She said the offense was too structured for her taste. She complained that Geno required them to move in certain ways and to get to certain positions on the floor, and she found this oppressive.

A good coach can build a winning team around players who want less structure on offense and defense. But it’s less clear that they can build a dynasty this way.

All of this is to say that Geno’s coaching doesn’t tend to favor players setting scoring records. It’s not impossible — obviously — but it’s not what his approach is designed for.

I watched some of Arkansas last week and she doesn’t move at UConn speed most of the time. I can see why she left.

 

[wbbhoops278]

I watched some of Arkansas last week and she doesn’t move at UConn speed most of the time. I can see why she left.

Really? This is so disrespectful. As if "UConn speed" is some elite thing. She's averaging a double double with about 13 rebounds, and almost 2 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocks per game. I've seen two of their games and to me, she seemed to hustle as much as anyone. She's allowed to have her reasons for leaving and they aren't invalid. Some of y'all bitter as F.

 

[Plebe]

I'm not sure how the Caitlin Clark scoring record watch thread got derailed into a discussion about an Arkansas player, but nonetheless:

Clark returned from Christmas break today with a 35-point output against Minnesota. That brings her career total to 5th on the all-time NCAA D1 list with 3,149 points. The only players ahead of her are Britney Griner (3,283), Jackie Stiles (3,393), Kelsey Mitchell (3,402) and Kelsey Plum (3,527).

Clark also had 10 assists, which makes her the Big Ten's all-time career assists leader.

 

[bballnut90]

I'm not sure how the Caitlin Clark scoring record watch thread got derailed into a discussion about an Arkansas player, but nonetheless:

Clark returned from Christmas break today with a 35-point output against Minnesota. That brings her career total to 5th on the all-time NCAA D1 list with 3,149 points. The only players ahead of her are Britney Griner (3,283), Jackie Stiles (3,393), Kelsey Mitchell (3,402) and Kelsey Plum (3,527).

Clark also had 10 assists, which makes her the Big Ten's all-time career assists leader.

If my math is correct she's also now 11th all time in career assists and 11th all time in career 3pt makes.

 

[The deacon]

If my math is correct she's also now 11th all time in career assists and 11th all time in career 3pt makes.

Caitlin's 35-point, 10-assist game was the 8th of her career.... by way of comparison, according to ESPN, that 35, 10 double has been accomplished just 10 other times by all other NCAA DI players in the last 25 seasons! Crazy...

 

[Bjbod]

Caitlin's 35-point, 10-assist game was the 8th of her career.... by way of comparison, according to ESPN, that 35, 10 double has been accomplished just 10 other times by all other NCAA DI players in the last 25 seasons! Crazy...

https://x.com/B1Gwbball/status/1741201143072456879?s=20

Impressive 15 second sequence in her game.

 

[Plebe]

It seems this thread is due for an update.

Clark's not-so-subtle 40 points vs. Michigan State brings her to 3,189 points on her college career. She'll likely pass Griner for 4th in three or four more games, and at her current season clip of 31.7 ppg she would pass Plum (3,527) in mid-February.

 

[Plebe]

None of the fireworks of the other night; just a ho-hum triple-double by Caitlin (29-10-10) — in 29 minutes of play against a dreadful Rutgers team — to bring her total to 3,218 points. She's now 55 points behind Griner, and has a good chance of passing her in the next two games.

 

[Vowelguy]

Clark needs 183 pts to pass Mitchell for 2nd place all time. 6-7 games?

Plum / Mitchell / Stiles / Griner / Clark

310 to pass Plum. Needs to average 22.1 in the remaining regular season games to do so.

 

[Plebe]

Clark's 26 points vs. Purdue brings her career total to 3,244.

She's now 39 points behind Griner (3,283) for 4th all-time and 287 behind Plum (3,527). Probably 9 or 10 games away from the record.

 

[VA Huskie]

Is anyone else annoyed at the seeming “push” to produce triple doubles? Clark is an incredible player and I love watching her. But to play 35 minutes in a game her team easily won - and get a triple D, with 10 rebounds and 10 assists… well it seems to me that they are playing to get her the triple. I often felt that that was done for Kelsey Plum as well. I haven’t seen most of her games (or Plums for that matter), so I may be way off base. What do others think?

 

[Plebe]

Is anyone else annoyed at the seeming “push” to produce triple doubles? Clark is an incredible player and I love watching her. But to play 35 minutes in a game her team easily won - and get a triple D, with 10 rebounds and 10 assists… well it seems to me that they are playing to get her the triple. I often felt that that was done for Kelsey Plum as well. I haven’t seen most of her games (or Plums for that matter), so I may be way off base. What do others think?

I don't see it that way.

Iowa was only up 15 with about 5 minutes to play, so this wasn't a blowout like the Rutgers game, where Clark played 29 minutes (and also had a triple-double).

There have been plenty of games where Clark played fewer minutes with no triple-double. So if there's a concerted "push" they're certainly hiding it well.

I'm guessing you're thinking of Ionescu rather than Plum, since Sabrina was the triple-double queen.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I'm guessing you're thinking of Ionescu rather than Plum, since Sabrina was the triple-double queen.

I had to look this up to make sure I wasn't about to mispeak. During Ionescu's Senior year, when there was much kvetching on the BY about her minutes, for UConn Walker, Williams and Dangerfield all played more MPG than Sabrina did. I was very much amused by that.


Plum certainly wasn't chasing triple doubles but played a whole bunch of minutes. Averaged 37 mpg for her career. Never varied much from Fr. thru Sr. season. So it wasn't about Neighbors playing her extra her Sr. year to get the scoring record. Unless he had the foresight to think she had a shot at right at the beginning of her first year.

 

[Bjbod]

Is anyone else annoyed at the seeming “push” to produce triple doubles? Clark is an incredible player and I love watching her. But to play 35 minutes in a game her team easily won - and get a triple D, with 10 rebounds and 10 assists… well it seems to me that they are playing to get her the triple. I often felt that that was done for Kelsey Plum as well. I haven’t seen most of her games (or Plums for that matter), so I may be way off base. What do others think?

I think Coach Bluder is aware of Caitlin's stats and I'm sure there have been times she's left her in a few extra minutes just to give her a chance to get a double/triple-double. That being said, they also know that the sellout crowds--especially on the road--are there to see CC play and that's another reason she stays on the court late when they're up 20+. Teams that average 3000 fans/game are selling out their arenas, and it's not to see the rest of the Iowa team.

 

[bballnut90]

Is anyone else annoyed at the seeming “push” to produce triple doubles? Clark is an incredible player and I love watching her. But to play 35 minutes in a game her team easily won - and get a triple D, with 10 rebounds and 10 assists… well it seems to me that they are playing to get her the triple. I often felt that that was done for Kelsey Plum as well. I haven’t seen most of her games (or Plums for that matter), so I may be way off base. What do others think?

It's becoming pretty par for the course whenever anyone accomplishes individual milestones. Ionescu as mentioned was routinely left in games so she could hit the triple double mark. In one interview she even mentioned she missed a shot on purpose just so she could grab another rebound. Dawn did it with Aliyah Boston for her double double streak, Bluder is doing the same for Clark when the game isn't in question. I personally don't love the emphasis on stats over normal flow of a game but I can't hate on it. The fact that Clark/Ionescu can consistently rack up triple double numbers on any given night is remarkable even if sometimes it feels forced.

 

[VA Huskie]

I don't see it that way.

Iowa was only up 15 with about 5 minutes to play, so this wasn't a blowout like the Rutgers game, where Clark played 29 minutes (and also had a triple-double).

There have been plenty of games where Clark played fewer minutes with no triple-double. So if there's a concerted "push" they're certainly hiding it well.

I'm guessing you're thinking of Ionescu rather than Plum, since Sabrina was the triple-double queen.

Good points. And yes, I was thinking of Ionescu

 

[Vowelguy]

5. Clark, Iowa (2020-24): 3,244
4. Griner, Baylor (2009-13): 3,283 ==> 39 pts ==> 1-2 games
3. Stiles, MoSt (1997-2001): 3,393 ==> 149 pts ==> 5-7 games
2. Mitchell, OhioSt (2014-18): 3,402 ==> 158 pts ==> 5-7 games
1. Plum, Washington (2013-17): 3,527 ==> 283 pts ==> 9-14 games

 

[MSSportsGuy]

It's becoming pretty par for the course whenever anyone accomplishes individual milestones. Ionescu as mentioned was routinely left in games so she could hit the triple double mark. In one interview she even mentioned she missed a shot on purpose just so she could grab another rebound. Dawn did it with Aliyah Boston for her double double streak, Bluder is doing the same for Clark when the game isn't in question. I personally don't love the emphasis on stats over normal flow of a game but I can't hate on it. The fact that Clark/Ionescu can consistently rack up triple double numbers on any given night is remarkable even if sometimes it feels forced.

Oklahoma did the same with Courtney Paris and her double-double streak. It can get a little tiresome but the numbers are overall impressive from all these players.

 

[Plebe]

It's becoming pretty par for the course whenever anyone accomplishes individual milestones. Ionescu as mentioned was routinely left in games so she could hit the triple double mark. In one interview she even mentioned she missed a shot on purpose just so she could grab another rebound. Dawn did it with Aliyah Boston for her double double streak, Bluder is doing the same for Clark when the game isn't in question. I personally don't love the emphasis on stats over normal flow of a game but I can't hate on it. The fact that Clark/Ionescu can consistently rack up triple double numbers on any given night is remarkable even if sometimes it feels forced.

I perused previous Iowa box scores to look for games where Caitlin came close to a triple-double in sub-average minutes (indicating a lack of a stats-hunting agenda when a trip-dub was in reach):

— 28-10-7 in 24 minutes vs. FDU
— 35-10-6 (plus 7 steals) in 31 minutes vs. Drake
— 21-6-6 in 26 minutes vs. FGCU
— 24-11-7 in 32 minutes vs. Bowling Green

As @bballnut90 says, it's become pretty SOP for coaches to let a star player reach a benchmark stat when it's within reach, and I don't doubt it sometimes happens with Clark, but I'm not seeing this as an egregious case.

Also, as @Bjbod points out, fans at road games show up in droves just to see Clark play. The Rutgers gym, of all places, was filled with little girls carrying creative signs such as “Caitlin Is My Roman Empire” — should Caitlin not play the entire second half just because her team was up by 30?

 

[oldhusky]

I think the greatest threat to Clark not breaking Plum's record this year is more health than the opposition. We can all do the math assuming minimal games, as in one conference tournament game, and one NCAA game, but it is far more likely she will get several more than that, and when she is close, I'm sure there will be a badly veiled attempt by the team and coaches to get her there.

If it is close she will get a few more minutes and have more plays run for her. I think most programs would do that for a player approaching a major milestone. But one twisted ankle or of course a more serious injury could take it away.

Sorry as a Uconn fan I can't take health as a given after the last three years.

 

[Vowelguy]

Iowa has a minimum 15 games (13 RS + conf and ncaa tourneys). Needs to avg 18.9 ppg. (This season shes avg 31.0 and 27.7 for career.)

She will have no problem getting the record, which will reduce any pressure coaches might feel to ‘get’ her more points/minutes.