Butler Postgame Thread

[KingAG]

Who were the 2Gs that year that were physically bigger/more athletic than Hawkins that year?

Just shooting guards on our schedule, though there were more:

RJ Luis
Terrance Shannon
Kadary Richmond
Anthony Black
Julian Strawther
Colby Jones
Brandon Murray
Simas Lukosius

I could go through the rest of the country but that’d be overkill.

What made Hawk great was not his physical attributes. He wasn’t the biggest 2 guard. He’s 6’5 190 lbs. And 190 lbs is gracious.

 

[Glastonhusky]

We haven't going on three years now.

Toure would be by far our best athlete and I think he'll be better than Jaylin and Ross his freshman year.

Don't forget, we did recruit Isaiah Abraham. Many said he was the best athlete on the team last year. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for him here.

 

[HW611]

Just shooting guards on our schedule, though there were more:

RJ Luis
Terrance Shannon
Kadary Richmond
Anthony Black
Julian Strawther
Colby Jones
Brandon Murray
Simas Lukosius

I could go through the rest of the country but that’d be overkill.

What made Hawk great was not his physical attributes. He wasn’t the biggest 2 guard. He’s 6’5 190 lbs. And 190 lbs is gracious.

Didn’t make it to Brandon Murray or the last guy because all the guys you named previously either didn’t play that year or actually played the 3.

RJ Luis and Terrance Shannon were on 24s schedule. They may also have played the 3 but I haven’t checked.

Hawk was typically matched up with someone shorter than him, lighter, or both. Arkansas was as close as it got because of freshman Nick Smith who was the same height but a 180 pound freshman.

Most of college basketball 2 guards are smaller guards. Like Solo and Cam are.

 

[HW611]

And defensively in 23 that’s what it looked like… we were suffocating and had size advantages on every part of the floor except the 4 and 5. And at the 5 we had a 7’ that can make Drew Timme look like a middle schooler if need be.

We were one of the top defensive teams in the country both years because the best defensive coach in the country had superior physical talent to sick on teams.

 

[KingAG]

Didn’t make it to Brandon Murray or the last guy because all the guys you named previously either didn’t play that year or actually played the 3.

RJ Luis and Terrance Shannon were on 24s schedule. They may also have played the 3 but I haven’t checked.

Hawk was typically matched up with someone shorter than him, lighter, or both. Arkansas was as close as it got because of freshman Nick Smith who was the same height but a 180 pound freshman.

Most of college basketball 2 guards are smaller guards. Like Solo and Cam are.

They weren’t all on our schedule but they were all in CBB. And who was a 3? lol

 

[KingAG]

And defensively in 23 that’s what it looked like… we were suffocating and had size advantages on every part of the floor except the 4 and 5. And at the 5 we had a 7’ that can make Drew Timme look like a middle schooler if need be.

We were one of the top defensive teams in the country both years because the best defensive coach in the country had superior physical talent to sick on teams.

I don’t disagree with anything other than Jordan Hawkins being this physically imposing figure lmao. He just wasn’t. Him and Alex were actually the ones who teams would target in post situation. Because of their lack of physicality

 

[HW611]

They weren’t all on our schedule but they were all in CBB. And who was a 3? lol

6’2 Sky Clark and 6’3 Jayden Epps started for Illinois.

6’3 Devonte Davis and 6’5 Nick Smith for Arkansas

6’2 Nolan Hickman and 6’3 Rasir Bolton for Gonzaga

6’3 Souley Bouk and 6’4 175 Adam Linked for Xavier

Teams at most matched Hawkins size. But like we are currently and last year, most teams were sending out another small guard for the match up.

 

[HW611]

I don’t disagree with anything other than Jordan Hawkins being this physically imposing figure lmao. He just wasn’t. Him and Alex were actually the ones who teams would target in post situation. Because of their lack of physicality

I’ll say he helped us not be at a physical disadvantage at his position.

 

[superjohn]

A huge part of our back to backs were being bigger, stronger, and faster than everyone else.

Newton gave us a PG bigger than 99% of the teams we played both years.

Hawkins gave us a 2G who was physically and athletically superior than 99% of the field. Cam didn’t but had Newton and Castle next to him with Clingan behind him to make up for it.

Andre and Steph are known. Their ability to suffocate 1-4 was incredibly important. Was the best athlete on the floor in 99% of the games we played in.

Karaban was the outlier both years (with Cam in 24).

Sanogo wasn’t athletically superior. Was more super skilled like Cam. But we had the cheat code in Clingan who was bigger and stronger than 99% of the centers in the country coming off the bench. Then a full time starter the next year.

A good part of our championships was being bigger, faster, and stronger than our opponents.

Hawkins was fast coming around screens for threes but he was physically weak and didn't finish around the rim. He was basically just a dynamic albeit somewhat inconsistent three point shot maker who got drafted too high because he was on fire from three in the NCAA tournament. The cheat code in Clingan, Jackson and then Castle as elite physical athletes was certainly a huge diffence maker on those teams.

Hawkins weighs 185 lbs and if they still did the 185 lb bench press at the combine he might've been like Durant not being able to get a single rep.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Hurley for his championship teams recruited IQ. Athleticism isn't what makes this team different than 23 and 24. Basketball IQ and passing ability are. AJax as a brilliant player who understood angles, Alex elite level IQ, Cam elite level IQ, Steph elite level IQ, Donovan elite level IQ, Hawk elite IQ with using screens, etc. Our guys are more than athletic enough. It's the boneheaded moments and the times where we suddenly forget how to run the offense. We need to recruit more elite passers. The improvements from "really good" to Number 7 will happen in the mind if it happens at all.

I think Silas and Braylon are the 2 that can make the IQ leap for us. Solo and Taris aren't IQ guys. They are supremely talented, but I don't want them necessarily at the forefront of our decision making. This is where Malachi is killing us. He was supposed to be another IQ guy and just hasn't been that.

Our championship culture is based on execution and being better at thinking "basketball" than everyone else. If an athletic freak has those high IQ attributes(AJax, Steph) then they'll be here.

I think Tarris is the one making the IQ leap if you want to call it that. Passing out of double teams instead of dribbling into a TO. His 7 assists was a great start. S

 

[Donyell 360]

He sat with foul trouble late first half and never seemed to get it going in the second half

Is that because defenses are adjusting to his actions at the start of games and taking it away? If so, we need to do a better job of adjusting to the other team's adjustments. I recall Pitino calling a quick timeout after Mullins hit a step back 3 in the first half and he did very little after that. Maybe Butler made a similar adjustment? When teams focus on Mullins with their best defender, it is harder for him to dominate. That why we need Ball, AK, Reed and Demary to make them pay for focusing on Mullins.

 

[huskyharry]

How many times last night did they penetrate to the hoop and handoff for an easy basket? How does that happen that no one is covering that player? The game plan for teams like St. John’s or anyone who has athletic strong players is just to power to the rim and Butler did that too. Clingan used to put a stop that that stuff. Reibe has the size but they score right through him. He needs to turn into The Hulk next season.
Mullins doesn’t miss fadeaway pull ups with the clock winding down inside the line.

Georgetown and Providence (twice) powered to the hoop as well which contributed to making those games much closer than they should have been

 

[huskyharry]

Butler still 74 as of this morning. Also of note, PC is 76. If they can get/stay top 75, our road win there is another Q1.

highly unlikely now that they have also lost Bisjack (three best guards done for the year)

 

[Excalibur]

Hawkins was fast coming around screens for threes but he was physically weak and didn't finish around the rim. He was basically just a dynamic albeit somewhat inconsistent three point shot maker who got drafted too high because he was on fire from three in the NCAA tournament. The cheat code in Clingan, Jackson and then Castle as elite physical athletes was certainly a huge diffence maker on those teams.

Hawkins weighs 185 lbs and if they still did the 185 lb bench press at the combine he might've been like Durant not being able to get a single rep.

Hawkins was a pretty good run and jump athlete but just wasn't physically strong.

Spencer wasn't fast, but hard to argue that he wasn't athletic given his ability to play multiple sports at a high level, and he was also deceptively strong.