Butler Postgame Thread

[FanSince17]

Maybe it speaks to the quality of my life, but I really look forward to UConn WCBB games. I bet I’m not alone with that here. Sorry, yesterday wasn’t satisfying. I know, it is what it is. Nobody played enough minutes. What’s wrong with Butler? Watch the intro scene of Hoosiers (YouTube it) with farmhouse after farmhouse with hoops. Indiana is basketball. Butler’s coach has serious lineage. What’s up. Brad Stevens got the men to the NCAA finals twice. UConn had to throw out a non-trapping 2-3 zone in the second half. What the heck. Wednesday should be a little better. I’m going to the Nova game and then ND comes in. Maybe it’ll get better. I think Geno wasn’t happy about it either, unless I’m reading too much into that press conference (or lack there of).
Like going to a beautiful French restaurant and finishing your main course in 3 bites.

 

[Boreifs]

Maybe it speaks to the quality of my life, but I really look forward to UConn WCBB games. I bet I’m not alone with that here. Sorry, yesterday wasn’t satisfying. I know, it is what it is. Nobody played enough minutes. What’s wrong with Butler? Watch the intro scene of Hoosiers (YouTube it) with farmhouse after farmhouse with hoops. Indiana is basketball. Butler’s coach has serious lineage. What’s up. Brad Stevens got the men to the NCAA finals twice. UConn had to throw out a non-trapping 2-3 zone in the second half. What the heck. Wednesday should be a little better. I’m going to the Nova game and then ND comes in. Maybe it’ll get better. I think Geno wasn’t happy about it either, unless I’m reading too much into that press conference (or lack there of).
Like going to a beautiful French restaurant and finishing your main course in 3 bites.

Watch some Big East games sometime. They are competitive and fun to watch, including Butler. Every team except DePaul had a winning record during OC. UConn is just totally formidable, plus Big East schools are small, without the resources of the Power Conferences.

 

[victor64]

Maybe it speaks to the quality of my life, but I really look forward to UConn WCBB games. I bet I’m not alone with that here. Sorry, yesterday wasn’t satisfying. I know, it is what it is. Nobody played enough minutes. What’s wrong with Butler? Watch the intro scene of Hoosiers (YouTube it) with farmhouse after farmhouse with hoops. Indiana is basketball. Butler’s coach has serious lineage. What’s up. Brad Stevens got the men to the NCAA finals twice. UConn had to throw out a non-trapping 2-3 zone in the second half. What the heck. Wednesday should be a little better. I’m going to the Nova game and then ND comes in. Maybe it’ll get better. I think Geno wasn’t happy about it either, unless I’m reading too much into that press conference (or lack there of).
Like going to a beautiful French restaurant and finishing your main course in 3 bites.

For me, I have a totally different take when I get to see them live like I did yesterday. The precision just isn't properly captured on TV. I am sure you have gone to games but yesterday for example, they had 11 kids play and they took maybe 3 bad shots. That is just total commitment to the process and rare at any level.

 

[HuskyNan]

Maybe it speaks to the quality of my life, but I really look forward to UConn WCBB games. I bet I’m not alone with that here. Sorry, yesterday wasn’t satisfying. I know, it is what it is. Nobody played enough minutes. What’s wrong with Butler? Watch the intro scene of Hoosiers (YouTube it) with farmhouse after farmhouse with hoops. Indiana is basketball. Butler’s coach has serious lineage. What’s up. Brad Stevens got the men to the NCAA finals twice. UConn had to throw out a non-trapping 2-3 zone in the second half. What the heck. Wednesday should be a little better. I’m going to the Nova game and then ND comes in. Maybe it’ll get better. I think Geno wasn’t happy about it either, unless I’m reading too much into that press conference (or lack there of).
Like going to a beautiful French restaurant and finishing your main course in 3 bites.

Not all Big East schools make a commitment to women’s sports like UConn does. Butler’s women’s hoops coach makes $109,000 while the men’s coach makes $463,000. Yes, the men have higher revenue but it seems to me a winning team, adequately supported by the AD including marketing effort, will draw fans

Butler actually seems to be marginally improved, a credit to the coach. It seems to have some players - which leads to another problem. The best non-UConn Big East players get lured away for more exposure, more NIL opportunities, and a chance for more wins. See Aneesa Morrow (DePau), Lucy Olson (Villanova), Lauren Park-Lane (Seton Hall), et al

Equality in athletics disclosure report released – The Butler Collegian

thebutlercollegian.com

 

[FanSince17]

Watch some Big East games sometime. They are competitive and fun to watch, including Butler. Every team except DePaul had a winning record during OC. UConn is just totally formidable, plus Big East schools are small, without the resources of the Power Conferences.

I've been to 4 games already. I watch a lot of games, including UConn men who also happen to be in the Big East. At one time, men's and women's basketball in the Big East was the best in the NCAA. You didn't respond to any of my points, except to intimate that the Big East women's is not that bad. In fact, I'm searching for a new hobby during Jan and Feb. (I'm going to Villanova though. Can't miss going to Gampel.)

 

[HuskyNan]

 

[BBallF]

I think she would need like a season-ending injury before the halfway point to redshirt if I am not mistaken.

That's right. Not only not halfway, but no more than 30% of the games. If you play for one second in one game without an injury, you lost that year. Also, I don't think you can medical redshirt in your fourth year of eligibility.

 

[FanSince17]

Not all Big East schools make a commitment to women’s sports like UConn does. Butler’s women’s hoops coach makes $109,000 while the men’s coach makes $463,000. Yes, the men have higher revenue but it seems to me a winning team, adequately supported by the AD including marketing effort, will draw fans

Butler actually seems to be marginally improved, a credit to the coach. It seems to have some players - which leads to another problem. The best non-UConn Big East players get lured away for more exposure, more NIL opportunities, and a chance for more wins. See Aneesa Morrow (DePau), Lucy Olson (Villanova), Lauren Park-Lane (Seton Hall), et al

Equality in athletics disclosure report released – The Butler Collegian

thebutlercollegian.com

I'm sure I'm thick, but I still don't fully understand. Why isn't women's basketball supported more at these schools? Most of the Big East is private schools, many have no football. Isn't basketball relatively inexpensive as a major sport? I can tell you from experience, going to games and as an avid fan, that women's basketball is red hot. I grew up 10 miles from the U of MD, 2 miles from DC and I taught in Baltimore City. I know what basketball popularity feels like. Barclay's doubleheader was inspiring. That much buzz in a major league arena! And then, to me, in arguably the basketball mecca in the US, yesterday, thud.

 

[Bills Fan]

Unbelievable play on our Sarah's part. A play to watch and re-watch, but as I watched it a few times, I wonder if Ash's pass was really intended for Azzi and intercepted by Sarah? No matter, it was a fantastic play on the part of Sarah.

 

[BobbyJ]

That's right. Not only not halfway, but no more than 30% of the games. If you play for one second in one game without an injury, you lost that year. Also, I don't think you can medical redshirt in your fourth year of eligibility.

Yes, you can receive a medical waiver for your last year of eligibility as long as you meet all the criteria.

 

[HuskyNan]

I'm sure I'm thick, but I still don't fully understand. Why isn't women's basketball supported more at these schools? Most of the Big East is private schools, many have no football. Isn't basketball relatively inexpensive as a major sport? I can tell you from experience, going to games and as an avid fan, that women's basketball is red hot. I grew up 10 miles from the U of MD, 2 miles from DC and I taught in Baltimore City. I know what basketball popularity feels like. Barclay's doubleheader was inspiring. That much buzz in a major league arena! And then, to me, in arguably the basketball mecca in the US, yesterday, thud.

I will start a new thread

 

[Bills Fan]

Nice pass from K9 to set up Yanna!

 

[oldude]

I've been to 4 games already. I watch a lot of games, including UConn men who also happen to be in the Big East. At one time, men's and women's basketball in the Big East was the best in the NCAA. You didn't respond to any of my points, except to intimate that the Big East women's is not that bad. In fact, I'm searching for a new hobby during Jan and Feb. (I'm going to Villanova though. Can't miss going to Gampel.)

It’s not that your assessment of BE WBB is incorrect. But for a number of reasons, discussed ad nauseam on the BY, there is no easy or practical fix. It is what it is, and yet UConn WBB continues to prosper. With that said, you can understand why many here on the BY, myself included, grow weary from repeated criticisms of the conference, when no solution is in sight.

 

[FanSince17]

It’s not that your assessment of BE WBB is incorrect. But for a number of reasons, discussed ad nauseam on the BY, there is no easy or practical fix. It is what it is, and yet UConn WBB continues to prosper. With that said, you can understand why many here on the BY, myself included, grow weary from repeated criticisms of the conference, when no solution is in sight.

Sorry about the ad nauseum that I'm subjecting you to.
I'm a teacher. How about this teacher joke, "how many teachers does it take to change a light bulb?..." Teacher's meeting: idea followed by all the multitude of reasons it won't work. Ugh.
Why can't the Big East be the best basketball conference in the country that's not a power conference?
I just watched Hoosiers for the tenth time to rejuvenate my admiration for Indiana basketball. (and I'm from the DMV)

 

[Bills Fan]

A few concerns among the general exuberance.

-The trapping/full court defense looks great against (what was yesterday) a top high school team…I must admit it also worked well on top 20 teams...
But will it work on the superior athletes of a top-five team…perhaps not…as UTenn is finding out and Kentucky did, those years ago…Then what?

-When the team played zone in the 2nd half…admittedly with mostly 3rd echelon, the rebounding was poor(er) and Butler got more than a few extra chances (not that they did much with them). We didn’t see that scheme with the starters…so perhaps a needless concern…but the general consensus of that D’s downside is defensive rebounding and 3-point D in transition.

-I wonder if playing Azzi and Sarah for decidedly less minutes than last season actually diminishes their fittness rather than saving strength for when it counts. There is little to no evidence that either experienced any sort of burnout in the Tourney, rather the opposite.

All of the above may turn out to be trivial…but things have gone absolutely too well and we may have become complacent in our exuberance.

Am I the only one who notices, or is willing to comment, on the 3 pt shooting of Sarah? Maybe I just got spoiled by her shooting in the NCAAT last year but 1 of 4 yesterday and 36.0% through 13 games is not what I thought she would produce this year.
Hey, I think she is the best all-around player in WCBB and there is no one else that I would rather have on my team, but is it possible that 36% from beyond the arc could stand in the way of her chances to be the NPOY? At some point the media is going to pick up on this stat.

 

[boontonbomber]

Blanca shooting 57.7% from 3. She looks rather effortless doing it.

 

[ABCDFE]

A few thoughts:

• Azzi's on ball defense is excellent and doesn't get enough attention from the media
• Sarah played typical ho hum Strong basektball. She could easily average 25+ points per game if she wanted, but her scoring is effortless very much like Pheesa.
• Blanca to me is the third most talented player on the team right now. As she figures out the system and plays more with her teammates she is going to make this team a 3 headed monster with Azzi and Sarah. I come to realize that in her early games she was playing at a speed that was different from what her teammates were at and I think that what she thought she could do in the professional basketball leagues abroad; the players on the team were just not on the same wavelength. Now I'm not saying she didn't make a bunch of headscratching errors, but I also think the out of control narrative has a bit to do with her mental speed and vision and expectations of what her teammates could do versus what she was used to.
• Serah Williams looks much much better over the last several weeks. She can improve her defense outside of the paint, but she's more decisive and her rebounding effort is much more obvious.
• KK and Shade played their typical games. KK is very active, but against the better teams she can't fly around too much on the floor as that will leave the team with 4 on 5 situations.
• The more I watch Allie, the more I realize how crafty she is around the basket. I like that she's not hesitating to shoot the open 3. After Blanca, you could say it's Allie and K9 off the bench.
• AP looks much better each game and I think if she gets a little stronger, she could be a rebounding and defensive star. You can see the athletic potential in her movement.
• Jana seems to be the biggest enigma to me. She's got the frame and several years now at UCONN but she really hasn't developed her game much. When she's at the top of the key if she could knock down that shot a la Mama Stef that would really open her game up.
• Kelis has a lot of tools you like and I'm excited to see her develop. Right now when she comes in you can tell she's not overwhelmed.

 

[BBallF]

Unbelievable play on our Sarah's part. A play to watch and re-watch, but as I watched it a few times, I wonder if Ash's pass was really intended for Azzi and intercepted by Sarah? No matter, it was a fantastic play on the part of Sarah.

If you look at the follow through on Ash's arms from the chest pass you see it was pointed to Azzi. So you are correct but I also think that pass would have been intercepted by Butler so it is a doubly great play. I don't always think that we BYers really understand how much Sarah improved from last year in every aspect of the game.

 

[FanSince17]

A few thoughts:

• Azzi's on ball defense is excellent and doesn't get enough attention from the media
• Sarah played typical ho hum Strong basektball. She could easily average 25+ points per game if she wanted, but her scoring is effortless very much like Pheesa.
• Blanca to me is the third most talented player on the team right now. As she figures out the system and plays more with her teammates she is going to make this team a 3 headed monster with Azzi and Sarah. I come to realize that in her early games she was playing at a speed that was different from what her teammates were at and I think that what she thought she could do in the professional basketball leagues abroad; the players on the team were just not on the same wavelength. Now I'm not saying she didn't make a bunch of headscratching errors, but I also think the out of control narrative has a bit to do with her mental speed and vision and expectations of what her teammates could do versus what she was used to.
• Serah Williams looks much much better over the last several weeks. She can improve her defense outside of the paint, but she's more decisive and her rebounding effort is much more obvious.
• KK and Shade played their typical games. KK is very active, but against the better teams she can't fly around too much on the floor as that will leave the team with 4 on 5 situations.
• The more I watch Allie, the more I realize how crafty she is around the basket. I like that she's not hesitating to shoot the open 3. After Blanca, you could say it's Allie and K9 off the bench.
• AP looks much better each game and I think if she gets a little stronger, she could be a rebounding and defensive star. You can see the athletic potential in her movement.
• Jana seems to be the biggest enigma to me. She's got the frame and several years now at UCONN but she really hasn't developed her game much. When she's at the top of the key if she could knock down that shot a la Mama Stef that would really open her game up.
• Kelis has a lot of tools you like and I'm excited to see her develop. Right now when she comes in you can tell she's not overwhelmed.

Nice job!
I don’t know about your assessment of Blanca. She’s phenomenal and getting better but a couple of her passes were sloppy. Just carelessness. Like making a bad decision on the golf course. Everyone’s forgiven.
I thought Jana played well. She’s a great screener. I know bunnies. She looked quicker. More solid.

 

[FanSince17]

If you look at the follow through on Ash's arms from the chest pass you see it was pointed to Azzi. So you are correct but I also think that pass would have been intercepted by Butler so it is a doubly great play. I don't always think that we BYers really understand how much Sarah improved from last year in every aspect of the game.

That’s why I want to see her play 35 minutes or so. Other players learn from her as well when she’s on the court. Like the ‘86 Celtics, everyone in sync.

 

[Boreifs]

I'm sure I'm thick, but I still don't fully understand. Why isn't women's basketball supported more at these schools? Most of the Big East is private schools, many have no football. Isn't basketball relatively inexpensive as a major sport? I can tell you from experience, going to games and as an avid fan, that women's basketball is red hot. I grew up 10 miles from the U of MD, 2 miles from DC and I taught in Baltimore City. I know what basketball popularity feels like. Barclay's doubleheader was inspiring. That much buzz in a major league arena! And then, to me, in arguably the basketball mecca in the US, yesterday, thud.

The Creighton-Georgetown game yesterday looked like it had about 200-300 fans in the stands. I wouldn’t label that as hot. The overriding issue is that smaller private Universities are fighting for survival right now. Pouring money into women’s basketball is not a high priority.

 

[BBallF]

A few thoughts:

• Azzi's on ball defense is excellent and doesn't get enough attention from the media
• Sarah played typical ho hum Strong basektball. She could easily average 25+ points per game if she wanted, but her scoring is effortless very much like Pheesa.
• Blanca to me is the third most talented player on the team right now. As she figures out the system and plays more with her teammates she is going to make this team a 3 headed monster with Azzi and Sarah. I come to realize that in her early games she was playing at a speed that was different from what her teammates were at and I think that what she thought she could do in the professional basketball leagues abroad; the players on the team were just not on the same wavelength. Now I'm not saying she didn't make a bunch of headscratching errors, but I also think the out of control narrative has a bit to do with her mental speed and vision and expectations of what her teammates could do versus what she was used to.
• Serah Williams looks much much better over the last several weeks. She can improve her defense outside of the paint, but she's more decisive and her rebounding effort is much more obvious.
• KK and Shade played their typical games. KK is very active, but against the better teams she can't fly around too much on the floor as that will leave the team with 4 on 5 situations.
• The more I watch Allie, the more I realize how crafty she is around the basket. I like that she's not hesitating to shoot the open 3. After Blanca, you could say it's Allie and K9 off the bench.
• AP looks much better each game and I think if she gets a little stronger, she could be a rebounding and defensive star. You can see the athletic potential in her movement.
• Jana seems to be the biggest enigma to me. She's got the frame and several years now at UCONN but she really hasn't developed her game much. When she's at the top of the key if she could knock down that shot a la Mama Stef that would really open her game up.
• Kelis has a lot of tools you like and I'm excited to see her develop. Right now when she comes in you can tell she's not overwhelmed.

Totally agree about Azzi. I don't think the Pheesa comparison is accurate though about Sarah.. They are two very different players. Sarah's offensive game is much more extensive and effortless. She is bigger, wider and has an array of shots that seem inexhaustible. We are watching the next great player in women's basketball. I also totally agree about Blanca. She slowed her game down. Best example is her spin move. It's 50% of the speed it was in the early part of the season when she was getting called for a charge constantly. The noteworthy thing about KK against Butler to me is that she made 2 three point shots. Her doing that will have the same effect that KC had last year when she did that. As for Jana, use the glass girl and more specifically the window. A little slower and more fluid will be fine. Kelis is a talent. I would like to see less forcing and more playmaking though.

 

[darkstar1]

You do realize that I drop this post immediately at the end of the game. Please feel free to take over that responsibility if you would like.

I do, I look forward to it and much appreciate reading your insights. Didn’t mean to sound critical, only to add to the discussion.

 

[FanSince17]

The Creighton-Georgetown game yesterday looked like it had about 200-300 fans in the stands. I wouldn’t label that as hot. The overriding issue is that smaller private Universities are fighting for survival right now. Pouring money into women’s basketball is not a high priority.

I was just at the Barclay’s. Marketing, marketing, marketing.
People are not risk takers. People are making buckets of money on women’s basketball.
The doubleheader WBB at Barclays’s- Geno intimated that the arrangement will continue indefinitely. NBA arena totally buzzing about women’s basketball. Lisa Leslie there looking regal.
I know you understand the idea of investment, spending money to make money.

 

[Rb335]

A random thought I had while watching Ayanna Patterson get some extra minutes in her home state: Patterson and Ice Brady are the only members of the 2022 recruiting class, they are in their 4th year on the team, and I’m pretty sure they’ve only both played in the same game once. Earlier this year against Florida state. Really really bizarre / unfortunate.

 

[sun]

On one steal by Azzi in the early going, the slow motion replay showed that Azzi hacked at & contacted the player's arms before the steal but there wasn't a foul called.
My concern is that when the high level of UConn's defensive aggressiveness isn't properly whistled, that it will come back and haunt UConn in some way at some juncture either later in the game or during the season.
Playing against Butler the lack of a foul being called didn't matter much, but it could if playing against a better team with better athletes than Butler and in a closer game.
For example, UConn could end up getting called for a lot of ticky tack fouls which could put a player on the sidelines..

 

[Boreifs]

On one steal by Azzi in the early going, the slow motion replay showed that Azzi hacked at & contacted the player's arms before the steal but there wasn't a foul called.
My concern is that when the high level of UConn's defensive aggressiveness isn't properly whistled, that it will come back and haunt UConn in some way at some juncture either later in the game or during the season.
Playing against Butler the lack of a foul being called didn't matter much, but it could if playing against a better team with better athletes than Butler and in a closer game.
For example, UConn could end up getting called for a lot of ticky tack fouls which could put a player on the sidelines..

To alleviate your concern, I would recommend Yoga.

 

[Dogdude]

Like going to a beautiful French restaurant and finishing your main course in 3 bites.

Well, Italian restaurants also... That said, it's the price we pay for having a team that that's good. I do wish other teams in the BE took it as seriously as we do, but it seems that's for another thread starting up. But rather than dump on the BE, of all the colleges and universities in the country, how many really rise to the level of the top 10-15? There's a rapid fall-off. It's a shame football dictates divisional alignment.

 

[dcheng021]

My only pain point was seeing Allie and Azzi pass up good three point looks. Those truly hurt my soul—why would you ever do that when you have such a pretty stroke. Everything else was great.

 

[Crossover]

A few thoughts:

• Azzi's on ball defense is excellent and doesn't get enough attention from the media
• Sarah played typical ho hum Strong basektball. She could easily average 25+ points per game if she wanted, but her scoring is effortless very much like Pheesa.
• Blanca to me is the third most talented player on the team right now. As she figures out the system and plays more with her teammates she is going to make this team a 3 headed monster with Azzi and Sarah. I come to realize that in her early games she was playing at a speed that was different from what her teammates were at and I think that what she thought she could do in the professional basketball leagues abroad; the players on the team were just not on the same wavelength. Now I'm not saying she didn't make a bunch of headscratching errors, but I also think the out of control narrative has a bit to do with her mental speed and vision and expectations of what her teammates could do versus what she was used to.
• Serah Williams looks much much better over the last several weeks. She can improve her defense outside of the paint, but she's more decisive and her rebounding effort is much more obvious.
• KK and Shade played their typical games. KK is very active, but against the better teams she can't fly around too much on the floor as that will leave the team with 4 on 5 situations.
• The more I watch Allie, the more I realize how crafty she is around the basket. I like that she's not hesitating to shoot the open 3. After Blanca, you could say it's Allie and K9 off the bench.
• AP looks much better each game and I think if she gets a little stronger, she could be a rebounding and defensive star. You can see the athletic potential in her movement.
• Jana seems to be the biggest enigma to me. She's got the frame and several years now at UCONN but she really hasn't developed her game much. When she's at the top of the key if she could knock down that shot a la Mama Stef that would really open her game up.
• Kelis has a lot of tools you like and I'm excited to see her develop. Right now when she comes in you can tell she's not overwhelmed.

I appreciate your observations and analysis. However, I disagree with one aspect of your commentary on Blanca. I don't think that her initial tendency toward playing at warp speed was a result of having played at that speed in the pros. In general, European basketball is more deliberate than in the USA, and Blanca's Italian team was no exception. My guess is that Blanca felt unchained upon her arrival at UConn (which prefers to play at a fast pace), and that Geno initially let her loose, figuring that it was best to explore her limits before reining her in a little. Indeed, I believe he has said as much.