BTN President talks realignment....

[TerryD]

The ACC expects ND to eventually join.

Link or proof that this is currently the case?

 

[TerryD]

Why on Earth did you have to mention ND? Now, eight posts later and hijacked thread, it wont go away.

Sorry, there were several references to ND. I apologize for hijacking the thread.

It is your board. I just happen to have two contrary opinions 1) ND will never join the ACC for football and 2) 4x16 is an internet pipe dream.

Have a nice day, guys.

 

[pj]

When the P5 get their autonomy and they make plans to expand the playoffs to 8 teams so every P5 conference champ gets an automatic bid, they will revisit Notre Dame's status. The ACC will try to use its voting power to make Notre Dame's independent status untenable, and by contract if Notre Dame joins a conference before 2025 or so they have to join the ACC. The question is, who has more pull with the B1G/SEC/Pac/B12, the ACC schools or Notre Dame? And behind what plan will the networks put their influence and money? I think it's clear the landscape is going to change over the next few years. Don't be surprised if there's a power play to end Notre Dame's independent status.

 

[itgoeslike]

Sorry, there were several references to ND. I apologize for hijacking the thread.

It is your board. I just happen to have two contrary opinions 1) ND will never join the ACC for football and 2) 4x16 is an internet pipe dream.

Have a nice day, guys.

Contrary opinion #1 is contrary to Swarbrick's quoted position: "Our goal is to maintain independence. But you never say never."

 

[bobbyinaz]

When the P5 get their autonomy and they make plans to expand the playoffs to 8 teams so every P5 conference champ gets an automatic bid, they will revisit Notre Dame's status. The ACC will try to use its voting power to make Notre Dame's independent status untenable, and by contract if Notre Dame joins a conference before 2025 or so they have to join the ACC. The question is, who has more pull with the B1G/SEC/Pac/B12, the ACC schools or Notre Dame? And behind what plan will the networks put their influence and money? I think it's clear the landscape is going to change over the next few years. Don't be surprised if there's a power play to end Notre Dame's independent status.

I don't agree with alot that Frank the Tank says but I do think that his thoughts about ND make sense.

Since ND can only join 1 conference, if they choose to go that route, I think it is in everyone's best interest to leave them alone. The B1G, Big 12 or SEC don't want them in the ACC so it makes sense to let them float along as an independent. Other than the occasional yr that they make the playoff, all they do is grab a bowl spot from another ACC school & will potentially beat an ACC school knocking them out of the playoffs.

It is very much "if we can't get them we don't want anyone else to have them either"

 

[btstimpy]

The ACC expects ND to eventually join.

The ACC doesn't have this expectation at this point. The expectation that the ACC does have is that should Notre Dame give up independence and decide to join a conference, it will be the ACC that Notre Dame joins. The ACC also is expecting Notre Dame football content to be part of the ACC Channel should it launch. There are two possibilies for that. One with ESPN and the other with NBC Sports. I posted about them on another thread a while back. From what I'm hearing Notre Dame is agreeable to this because they too want a channel.

The limbo issue is caused because the ACC does not seem to want to go beyond 16 members, and with Notre Dame not participating fully in football, adding a 16th member would cause unbalanced divisions. So the ACC and the Big 12 are asking the NCAA to remove the requirement for two divisions for a championship game. That will give both leagues some more flexibility.

 

[upstater]

The ACC doesn't have this expectation at this point.

haha. either you have it or you don't. I didn't say today. I said eventually.

 

[itgoeslike]

The legislation the ACC put forth provides a fair amount of latitude in determining who plays for the ACC championship. The ACC wants to avoid a championship game that pits their conference's top ranked team against the third or fourth best team in the conference. In a world with only four playoff spots, a 1-loss Clemson or FSU team needs a quality win in order to be in the mix. The ACC wants their top two teams, irrespective of division, to play for the title.

 

[Stray_Dog]

It takes two to tango. The ACC's expectations are irrelevant if ND refuses. End of story.

Besides, I can dig up John Swofford's statements that he doesn't think ND will ever join for football.

A discussion needs to be grounded in some reality. Waiting on ND to join the ACC in football is not such a discussion. It is an illusion.

Didn't know we were dancing...and the premise of the discussion is independent on what the expectations of ND are. For example, people speculate all the time and it is done without even consulting a book or other resource. In this case the speculation is pretty simple - we are assuming fact one, that the ACC will not expand further without more commitment from ND in football. This premise gets proven with them inviting another school without ND giving further commitment...or it goes left unproven with ND staying status quo. The expectation from the ACC is with more commitment from ND, and an additional university being invited is that they would get more money and their own network. Again that too is speculation but pretty sure, that is the topic. Yes, ND is part of the topic but it is not their point of view we are interested in! Thanks for playing. If you do not like this thread or understand its merit because you can't disassociate yourself from ND, I suggest you switch to a different thread or if YOU prefer you can go to the ND blogs. - Just a suggestion. But truly, this is probably a conversation that you shouldn't be a part of. Sort of like ND voting in the Big East with the basketball schools against what the football schools wanted. Only here, you really DON'T get a vote!

 

[btstimpy]

haha. either you have it or you don't. I didn't say today. I said eventually.

I think most in the ACC want that, but we have to move forward with the current arrangement for the foreseeable future. John Swofford just answered a reporter on this question in the past month saying that the current ND football - ACC arrangement is at face value. There is no timetable for full membership or expectation, but the ACC would welcome Notre Dame football should Notre Dame want to fully participate. I would like it because I don't like 14 team scheduling. But it can't be expected. We have to carry on like this for now. If the two division requirement is removed for the Championship Game by the NCAA, then the ACC could go to a 15 team football conference. That could actually work better for the Notre Dame 5 games per year because 15 is more evenly divisible by 5 than 14 for the rotation of Notre Dame games.

 

[btstimpy]

The legislation the ACC put forth provides a fair amount of latitude in determining who plays for the ACC championship. The ACC wants to avoid a championship game that pits their conference's top ranked team against the third or fourth best team in the conference. In a world with only four playoff spots, a 1-loss Clemson or FSU team needs a quality win in order to be in the mix. The ACC wants their top two teams, irrespective of division, to play for the title.

Yes this is true. It also would enable a lot more regular season scheduling flexibility. That's where the possibility of a 15 member football league could be considered. The Big 12 wants it to open the possibility of a championship game with 10 members.

 

[TerryD]

Didn't know we were dancing...and the premise of the discussion is independent on what the expectations of ND are. For example, people speculate all the time and it is done without even consulting a book or other resource. In this case the speculation is pretty simple - we are assuming fact one, that the ACC will not expand further without more commitment from ND in football. This premise gets proven with them inviting another school without ND giving further commitment...or it goes left unproven with ND staying status quo. The expectation from the ACC is with more commitment from ND, and an additional university being invited is that they would get more money and their own network. Again that too is speculation but pretty sure, that is the topic. Yes, ND is part of the topic but it is not their point of view we are interested in! Thanks for playing. If you do not like this thread or understand its merit because you can't disassociate yourself from ND, I suggest you switch to a different thread or if YOU prefer you can go to the ND blogs. - Just a suggestion. But truly, this is probably a conversation that you shouldn't be a part of. Sort of like ND voting in the Big East with the basketball schools against what the football schools wanted. Only here, you really DON'T get a vote!

I can disassociate just fine. I am a lawyer, I do it all the time.

If you want to have a speculative, hypothetical "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin" type of theoretical discussion, by all means.

Like I said, its your board. Have a nice evening.

 

[Stray_Dog]

I can disassociate just fine. I am a lawyer, I do it all the time.

If you want to have a speculative, hypothetical "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin" type of theoretical discussion, by all means.

Like I said, its your board. Have a nice evening.

Please define for me the difference between the following: an argument, a discussion (both formal and informal), or the formulation of an hypothesis? I look at this topic as not being an argument for whether ND is going to join the ACC, but rather does the ACC have a reason for needing them to join. If the need becomes great, at what point is there a breaking point? And please understand my conjecture against ND is that they played a pretty solid role - as inactive or active a role as that might have been in the destruction of the Old Big East. My point for you - as you are clearly an ND fan and as a lawyer you must realize we would and are treating you as a HOSTILE witness in this conversation! Oh and if you want to get into an exacting argument with utmost clarity argument than as a lawyer I suggest you ask your questions with the expectation that your witness will give very simple answers like yes or no! - Of course speaking of education and how many angels can fit on the head of a pin well, define for me what qualifies the size of an angel and describe me for in what facet they will be oriented in or if it is randome orientation than I will give you an answer in a range. Of course I assume you have this information as you have an idea of angels??? I would then be happy to give you an accurate assessment of the answer.

And for goodness sake, Darwinism would fit this same level of discussion, after all it too is only a theory, or Einstein's theory of relativity. But what was Darwin's basic premise, what was his initial hypothesis? SO my question as an expert on arguments, discussions, and worthless diatribes, I leave you with this one final Question. Before the season starts, the top 25 teams are ranked including the preseason number one, so why play the game or why have the discussion before the game, when both teams that are about to play have already been statistically analyzed and computed as to determine who thee winner is? So, yes I come on here as a fan to be quite speculative, it is after all a sports blog.

I am happy to give you a very minute hint of my background, "For every Action there is an Equal and Oppositte Reaction" ND wants to be independent, the ACC wants them to be dependent!

 

[TerryD]

Please define for me the difference between the following: an argument, a discussion (both formal and informal), or the formulation of an hypothesis? I look at this topic as not being an argument for whether ND is going to join the ACC, but rather does the ACC have a reason for needing them to join. If the need becomes great, at what point is there a breaking point? And please understand my conjecture against ND is that they played a pretty solid role - as inactive or active a role as that might have been in the destruction of the Old Big East. My point for you - as you are clearly an ND fan and as a lawyer you must realize we would and are treating you as a HOSTILE witness in this conversation! Oh and if you want to get into an exacting argument with utmost clarity argument than as a lawyer I suggest you ask your questions with the expectation that your witness will give very simple answers like yes or no! - Of course speaking of education and how many angels can fit on the head of a pin well, define for me what qualifies the size of an angel and describe me for in what facet they will be oriented in or if it is randome orientation than I will give you an answer in a range. Of course I assume you have this information as you have an idea of angels??? I would then be happy to give you an accurate assessment of the answer.

And for goodness sake, Darwinism would fit this same level of discussion, after all it too is only a theory, or Einstein's theory of relativity. But what was Darwin's basic premise, what was his initial hypothesis? SO my question as an expert on arguments, discussions, and worthless diatribes, I leave you with this one final Question. Before the season starts, the top 25 teams are ranked including the preseason number one, so why play the game or why have the discussion before the game, when both teams that are about to play have already been statistically analyzed and computed as to determine who thee winner is? So, yes I come on here as a fan to be quite speculative, it is after all a sports blog.

I am happy to give you a very minute hint of my background, "For every Action there is an Equal and Oppositte Reaction" ND wants to be independent, the ACC wants them to be dependent!

As far as pre-season polls and pre-game shows and the like, I don't know as I don't pay any attention to them. They are pretty meaningless and sort of stupid to me.

I just tune in to watch the actual reality, the games after kickoff. I don't even watch halftime shows as they are all meaningless. I skip post game shows too.

As for the rest, I'll pass. It is your board and as a " hostile witness", you don't really want my opinion and I have cluttered up this thread enough.

 

[upstater]

I think most in the ACC want that, but we have to move forward with the current arrangement for the foreseeable future. John Swofford just answered a reporter on this question in the past month saying that the current ND football - ACC arrangement is at face value. There is no timetable for full membership or expectation, but the ACC would welcome Notre Dame football should Notre Dame want to fully participate. I would like it because I don't like 14 team scheduling. But it can't be expected. We have to carry on like this for now. If the two division requirement is removed for the Championship Game by the NCAA, then the ACC could go to a 15 team football conference. That could actually work better for the Notre Dame 5 games per year because 15 is more evenly divisible by 5 than 14 for the rotation of Notre Dame games.

Yu guys would believe any snakeoil salesman who comes down the pike. Talk about gullible.

 

[billybud]

I don't count on the Irish for anything beyond the 60 games contracted with the ACC,,,,& it sounds like Swofford doesn't either.

I do like the Irish as an OOC staple.