Bryce McNeal redeux

[Duncan Idaho]

say he holds 120 credits. if he gets 24 credits of straight A work that would bring him just shy of 2.7. Of course he did graduate.

 

[cjd05002]

Couldnt he have gotten into the Puppetry program?

 

[UConnDan97]

He's going to get what GPA up? He's a college graduate.

You know that you can continue to take courses as a non-degree student, right? Unless they are referring to his major GPA and not overall GPA, having his Bachelors does not prevent him from upping his GPA.

 

[businesslawyer]

You know that you can continue to take courses as a non-degree student, right? Unless they are referring to his major GPA and not overall GPA, having his Bachelors does not prevent him from upping his GPA.

Yes. So we want him to continue taking courses at Clemson (i) while paying his own way or (ii) because Clemson is so generous it will continue to fund his tuition while he sits out so he can transfer?

 

[UConnDan97]

Yes. So we want him to continue taking courses at Clemson (i) while paying his own way or (ii) because Clemson is so generous it will continue to fund his tuition while he sits out so he can transfer?

No, I didn't say that I would expect him to continue to wait and pay to attend UConn. And clearly, he didn't want to do that either. The point was that if he chose to, he was not prevented from doing so.

Bottom line; I wanted him to play here. UConn was willing to make concessions for him to be here. He couldn't meet the concessions. I wish the young man the best of luck (except for against UConn).

 

[businesslawyer]

No, I didn't say that I would expect him to continue to wait and pay to attend UConn. And clearly, he didn't want to do that either. The point was that if he chose to, he was not prevented from doing so.

Bottom line; I wanted him to play here. UConn was willing to make concessions for him to be here. He couldn't meet the concessions. I wish the young man the best of luck (except for against UConn).

Or, the bottom line could be "we need to admit capable, if not brilliant, students who can help us win in football and hoops." You calling something the "bottom line" doesn't actually end a debate.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Are people really making the argument that if McNeal really wanted to come to UConn, he could've taken undergrad courses this year on his own dime, not play football in 2012.......all to MAYBE boost his GPA to a 2.7 to MAYBE get accepted into UConn for 2013?

Or maybe he'll get accepted to Louisville, on full scholarship, and play for the preseason Big East favorite. Tough call.

 

[businesslawyer]

Are people really making the argument that if McNeal really wanted to come to UConn, he could've taken undergrad courses this year on his own dime, not play football in 2012.......all to MAYBE boost his GPA to a 2.7 to MAYBE get accepted into UConn for 2013?

Or maybe he'll get accepted to Louisville, on full scholarship, and play for the preseason Big East favorite. Tough call.

Apparently, yes, they are.

He will not be here. We will move on and hopefully get WR play so that on one cares by mid-September. But that won't change the fact that we have to be able to compete for football players who are going to finish their careers while in grad school. That's all I'm saying.

 

[UConnDan97]

Or, the bottom line could be "we need to admit capable, if not brilliant, students who can help us win in football and hoops." You calling something the "bottom line" doesn't actually end a debate.

Are you kidding me, Biz? Did you not understand that my saying, "Bottom line," was the bottom line for how I felt about the situation? Did you think that I was ending everyone's ability to debate it because I typed the words, "Bottom line"?

Also, to Jimmy's point (which you seconded), I DID NOT argue that the kid should pay his own way and wait a year to play at UConn. My point was directed to you, Biz, who had stated that he couldn't get his GPA up because he was a college graduate. That is not the case. The case is that he is out of time to make it happen, and I wished the young man good luck in the future. (all of this is on this page of the thread, so I'm not sure what the confusion is all about)

 

[UConnDan97]

Or, the bottom line could be "we need to admit capable, if not brilliant, students who can help us win in football and hoops." You calling something the "bottom line" doesn't actually end a debate.

Also, if I could be so bold as to talk about your proposed "bottom line," it seems clear to me (and rightfully so, in my opinion) that UConn did not feel he was capable. It seems that UConn felt that the breakpoint for determining someone was capable of handling a 3.0GPA requirement was if they held a 2.7GPA...

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Also, if I could be so bold as to talk about your proposed "bottom line," it seems clear to me (and rightfully so, in my opinion) that UConn did not feel he was capable. It seems that UConn felt that the breakpoint for determining someone was capable of handling a 3.0GPA requirement was if they held a 2.7GPA...

I think the position that you and others have taken on this is very reasonable. I just happen to disagree with it.

I don't think UConn's academic reputation is on the line if they admit a grad school student like McNeal. I think they totally fubar'ed this whole thing. People have made the point that admissions may be gun shy because of the APR sanctions on the hoops team. Fooey. There are no issues, none, with the academic performance of the football team. Need to make things like this happen if you're gonna swim with sharks.

 

[businesslawyer]

Are you kidding me, Biz? Did you not understand that my saying, "Bottom line," was the bottom line for how I felt about the situation? Did you think that I was ending everyone's ability to debate it because I typed the words, "Bottom line"?

Also, to Jimmy's point (which you seconded), I DID NOT argue that the kid should pay his own way and wait a year to play at UConn. My point was directed to you, Biz, who had stated that he couldn't get his GPA up because he was a college graduate. That is not the case. The case is that he is out of time to make it happen, and I wished the young man good luck in the future. (all of this is on this page of the thread, so I'm not sure what the confusion is all about)

Dan -- simple question. In your experience, do people with college degrees go back to college to get their GPAs up? Because I can honestly tell you I don't know of a single one. And, thus, even if a theoreticaI possibility, don't see it as changing the discussion about UConn's admissions in any way.

That's all. Have a good day. We are agreeing about more than we're disagreeing about.

 

[UConnDan97]

I think the position that you and others have taken on this is very reasonable. I just happen to disagree with it.

I don't think UConn's academic reputation is on the line if they admit a grad school student like McNeal. I think they totally fubar'ed this whole thing. People have made the point that admissions may be gun shy because of the APR sanctions on the hoops team. Fooey. There are no issues, none, with the academic performance of the football team. Need to make things like this happen if you're gonna swim with sharks.

I respect that. And I agree with you that this decision was not made with any deference to the basketball APR situation. I guess what I am arguing is that UConn did make an attempt to "swim with the sharks" by lowering a pre-set standard from 3.0 to 2.7. Let me put this another way: if McNeal doesn't get into a program that would have lowered itself to 2.7GPA if he was carrying a 2.65GPA, I would have been right there on that mountaintop with you, screaming "WTF??" But he was significantly shy of even the concession, so how can I argue it?

 

[UConnDan97]

Dan -- simple question. In your experience, do people with college degrees go back to college to get their GPAs up? Because I can honestly tell you I don't know of a single one. And, thus, even if a theoreticaI possibility, don't see it as changing the discussion about UConn's admissions in any way.

That's all. Have a good day. We are agreeing about more than we're disagreeing about.

Well, now you know one. I'm that one. I took graduate level courses as a non-degree student after already obtaining my B.S. so that I could be accepted into grad school. And yes, I paid my own way. Is it affecting my view on the situation? Perhaps. But at least you now know of someone who has done it...

 

[UConnDan97]

By the way, I still have four years of eligibility left, so....

 

[businesslawyer]

Well, now you know one. I'm that one. I took graduate level courses as a non-degree student after already obtaining my B.S. so that I could be accepted into grad school. And yes, I paid my own way. Is it affecting my view on the situation? Perhaps. But at least you now know of someone who has done it...

Fair enough. Did the school really recompute your GPA after you graduated? What do they do about class rank?

 

[UConnDan97]

Fair enough. Did the school really recompute your GPA after you graduated? What do they do about class rank?

Even after 2 additional graduate level courses, I wasn't able to get into UConn grad (the standard for me was 3.0, and I would have made it had they extended me a 2.7 offer, ironically). I eventually ended up doing my grad work at a smaller college, and used the grad course grades along with my B.S. transcript as the "I belong in your grad school" pitch. The smaller school was not as strict as UConn.

In terms of class rank, I'm not sure. Perhaps they don't even think about that statistic, assuming they have ample supply of applications above 3.0.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I'm just honestly surprised this is an issue. Somehow the Notre Dames and Stanfords of the world manage to make this work, and here we are, the University of Connecticut, a school which isn't even allowed to play in the NCAA Tournament this year because of poor academic scores, and we can't figure out a way to sneak this kid in with a passing GPA?

Baffling stuff.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm just honestly surprised this is an issue. Somehow the Notre Dames and Stanfords of the world manage to make this work, and here we are, the University of Connecticut, a school which isn't even allowed to play in the NCAA Tournament this year because of poor academic scores, and we can't figure out a way to sneak this kid in with a passing GPA?

Baffling stuff.

I think the issue is more likely that we don't offer a Masters of Science in General Studies...

 

[UConnRock]

I'm just honestly surprised this is an issue. Somehow the Notre Dames and Stanfords of the world manage to make this work, and here we are, the University of Connecticut, a school which isn't even allowed to play in the NCAA Tournament this year because of poor academic scores, and we can't figure out a way to sneak this kid in with a passing GPA?

Baffling stuff.

The only two exapmles I can think of where a kid transferred into a graduate program of a BCS level football school was Paulus transferring from Duke. I am sure Paulus had a decent GPA and the fact that it was a Duke to 'Cuse transfer made it a no brainer admissions-wise. The other was Wilson transferring from NC State to Wisconsin. As stated previously Wilson had something like a 3.76 GPA so grades were not an issue. Grad vs. Undergrad admissions just can't be thought of as being the same playing field.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

The only two exapmles I can think of where a kid transferred into a graduate program of a BCS level football school was Paulus transferring from Duke. I am sure Paulus had a decent GPA and the fact that it was a Duke to 'Cuse transfer made it a no brainer admissions-wise. The other was Wilson transferring from NC State to Wisconsin. As stated previously Wilson had something like a 3.76 GPA so grades were not an issue. Grad vs. Undergrad admissions just can't be thought of as being the same playing field.

I'm not saying they're not different. But how many times is this scenario actually going to play out? Once every 10 years, if that? We had a chance to get a former 4 star WR (if that means anything to you) who was good enough to see the field at Clemson and we can't make an exception for him to get into grad school? Mind boggling. If this were to happen every year I can understand the school having to draw the line. But once in a blue moon? Get the kid into school.

 

[Srqhusky]

I'm not saying they're not different. But how many times is this scenario actually going to play out? Once every 10 years, if that? We had a chance to get a former 4 star WR (if that means anything to you) who was good enough to see the field at Clemson and we can't make an exception for him to get into grad school? Mind boggling. If this were to happen every year I can understand the school having to draw the line. But once in a blue moon? Get the kid into school.

do we the university of Connecticut want to become like the university of Miami. I am proud when that when a uconn player is interviewed they represent our school well

 

[businesslawyer]

do we the university of Connecticut want to become like the university of Miami. I am proud when that when a uconn player is interviewed they represent our school well

Well, we have pretty good evidence that the kid is capable of being a college graduate. Like -- I don't know -- that he already is one.

 

[Srqhusky]

Well, we have pretty good evidence that the kid is capable of being a college graduate. Like -- I don't know -- that he already is one.

I should have been clearer my point was that where do we draw the line. If we lower to allow a 2.4 in do we allow a 2.0 in. I mean what's the lowest gpa we can graduate with. Do I think McNeal is a good kid. Yes. A degree from Clemson means a lot. It's not like he went to west virginia.

 

[businesslawyer]

I should have been clearer my point was that where do we draw the line. If we lower to allow a 2.4 in do we allow a 2.0 in. I mean what's the lowest gpa we can graduate with. Do I think McNeal is a good kid. Yes. A degree from Clemson means a lot. It's not like he went to west virginia.

No one here can intelligently discuss the specifics of this case, because we don't know them. All people can note is that for the second time in two years issues with getting young men into our grad schools has cost us a player who can help us.

 

[Srqhusky]

No one here can intelligently discuss the specifics of this case, because we don't know them. All people can note is that for the second time in two years issues with getting young men into our grad schools has cost us a player who can help us.

agreed!!

 

[junglehusky]

Dan -- simple question. In your experience, do people with college degrees go back to college to get their GPAs up? Because I can honestly tell you I don't know of a single one. And, thus, even if a theoreticaI possibility, don't see it as changing the discussion about UConn's admissions in any way.

That's all. Have a good day. We are agreeing about more than we're disagreeing about.

Different situation, and not applicable in this case, but it's not uncommon for college grads to do a year or two of "post-bac" before applying to medical school to demonstrate academic ability in fields that might have been lacking in their undergrad degree (i.e. chemistry, biology, etc.). I don't think it changes their undergrad GPA but it provides an opportunity to demonstrate improvement.

 

[mets1090]

The issue of a football player transferring here to take non-degree courses to improve his GPA is a non-issue because doing that would likely force him to sit out a year. He was only going to get a waiver if he enrolled in a grad program that Clemson did not offer. Coming and taking non-degree courses would not satisfy that.

And we should not be bending the GPA requirement for a grad program by 0.6 to allow athletes in my opinion. That's really an enormous drop off. Going from average a B in each class to averaging slightly better than a C+ is a ridiculous difference. And those B students are the bottom of the barrel in grad programs at UConn. No disrespect meant to them because a 3.0 is entirely respectable, but this is a research institution and I think it is important to realize how good of a student you need to be to deserve a Masters Degree from UConn.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

do we the university of Connecticut want to become like the university of Miami. I am proud when that when a uconn player is interviewed they represent our school well

I think, among other things, that this statement is just a tad over dramatic.

 

[pj]

do we the university of Connecticut want to become like the university of Miami.

Becoming like the University of Michigan would be acceptable. I wonder if they've ever lost a football player to grad student admissions.