Bryce McNeal redeux

[AJC88]

What you don't get is that they told the kid- meet us halfway. Get this GPA, and we will make an exception for you. He didn't live up to his end of the bargain. It's his fault, not UConn admissions.

 

[AJC88]

Difference -- I've seen McNeal play college football. I am not relying on stars given to him in high school.

Arguing about whether it should be as easy to get a kid into grad school as undergrad is fine, but we don't need to denegrate the kid's abilities in doing so. He started at Clemson for a while. He played on TV. And people have seen him play at the college level.

Fair enough.

 

[junglehusky]

LOL. One more person struggling in a class at law school is hardly changing the character of the school.

Two of my partners went to Law School at Stanford with Bill Walton, while he was in the NBA. Basically, they let him create his own schedule. The law school survived (and Walton wasn't even playing college ball at the time).

Again, we don't know what program he was applying to. Some programs are mostly classwork. In others, grad students contribute greatly to the functioning of a department or institute; for example through teaching, conducting research, even writing fellowships and grants. In these cases it's not just the university's admissions department that makes the decision, but the program's faculty who are basing admissions on their own criteria if who they think can contribute to the department. I'm not saying that's what happened with McNeill, necessarily... just that different grad programs have very different needs.


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[Srqhusky]

Or how about this. I'm Bruce McNeal and I want to play football for uconn. I'm not playin football this year so I'm goon to get a 4.0 to pull my gpa up to get into the grad school and play football.

 

[businesslawyer]

Or how about this. I'm Bruce McNeal and I want to play football for uconn. I'm not playin football this year so I'm goon to get a 4.0 to pull my gpa up to get into the grad school and play football.

He's going to get what GPA up? He's a college graduate.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

say he holds 120 credits. if he gets 24 credits of straight A work that would bring him just shy of 2.7. Of course he did graduate.

 

[cjd05002]

Couldnt he have gotten into the Puppetry program?

 

[UConnDan97]

He's going to get what GPA up? He's a college graduate.

You know that you can continue to take courses as a non-degree student, right? Unless they are referring to his major GPA and not overall GPA, having his Bachelors does not prevent him from upping his GPA.

 

[businesslawyer]

You know that you can continue to take courses as a non-degree student, right? Unless they are referring to his major GPA and not overall GPA, having his Bachelors does not prevent him from upping his GPA.

Yes. So we want him to continue taking courses at Clemson (i) while paying his own way or (ii) because Clemson is so generous it will continue to fund his tuition while he sits out so he can transfer?

 

[UConnDan97]

Yes. So we want him to continue taking courses at Clemson (i) while paying his own way or (ii) because Clemson is so generous it will continue to fund his tuition while he sits out so he can transfer?

No, I didn't say that I would expect him to continue to wait and pay to attend UConn. And clearly, he didn't want to do that either. The point was that if he chose to, he was not prevented from doing so.

Bottom line; I wanted him to play here. UConn was willing to make concessions for him to be here. He couldn't meet the concessions. I wish the young man the best of luck (except for against UConn).

 

[businesslawyer]

No, I didn't say that I would expect him to continue to wait and pay to attend UConn. And clearly, he didn't want to do that either. The point was that if he chose to, he was not prevented from doing so.

Bottom line; I wanted him to play here. UConn was willing to make concessions for him to be here. He couldn't meet the concessions. I wish the young man the best of luck (except for against UConn).

Or, the bottom line could be "we need to admit capable, if not brilliant, students who can help us win in football and hoops." You calling something the "bottom line" doesn't actually end a debate.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Are people really making the argument that if McNeal really wanted to come to UConn, he could've taken undergrad courses this year on his own dime, not play football in 2012.......all to MAYBE boost his GPA to a 2.7 to MAYBE get accepted into UConn for 2013?

Or maybe he'll get accepted to Louisville, on full scholarship, and play for the preseason Big East favorite. Tough call.

 

[businesslawyer]

Are people really making the argument that if McNeal really wanted to come to UConn, he could've taken undergrad courses this year on his own dime, not play football in 2012.......all to MAYBE boost his GPA to a 2.7 to MAYBE get accepted into UConn for 2013?

Or maybe he'll get accepted to Louisville, on full scholarship, and play for the preseason Big East favorite. Tough call.

Apparently, yes, they are.

He will not be here. We will move on and hopefully get WR play so that on one cares by mid-September. But that won't change the fact that we have to be able to compete for football players who are going to finish their careers while in grad school. That's all I'm saying.

 

[UConnDan97]

Or, the bottom line could be "we need to admit capable, if not brilliant, students who can help us win in football and hoops." You calling something the "bottom line" doesn't actually end a debate.

Are you kidding me, Biz? Did you not understand that my saying, "Bottom line," was the bottom line for how I felt about the situation? Did you think that I was ending everyone's ability to debate it because I typed the words, "Bottom line"?

Also, to Jimmy's point (which you seconded), I DID NOT argue that the kid should pay his own way and wait a year to play at UConn. My point was directed to you, Biz, who had stated that he couldn't get his GPA up because he was a college graduate. That is not the case. The case is that he is out of time to make it happen, and I wished the young man good luck in the future. (all of this is on this page of the thread, so I'm not sure what the confusion is all about)

 

[UConnDan97]

Or, the bottom line could be "we need to admit capable, if not brilliant, students who can help us win in football and hoops." You calling something the "bottom line" doesn't actually end a debate.

Also, if I could be so bold as to talk about your proposed "bottom line," it seems clear to me (and rightfully so, in my opinion) that UConn did not feel he was capable. It seems that UConn felt that the breakpoint for determining someone was capable of handling a 3.0GPA requirement was if they held a 2.7GPA...

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Also, if I could be so bold as to talk about your proposed "bottom line," it seems clear to me (and rightfully so, in my opinion) that UConn did not feel he was capable. It seems that UConn felt that the breakpoint for determining someone was capable of handling a 3.0GPA requirement was if they held a 2.7GPA...

I think the position that you and others have taken on this is very reasonable. I just happen to disagree with it.

I don't think UConn's academic reputation is on the line if they admit a grad school student like McNeal. I think they totally fubar'ed this whole thing. People have made the point that admissions may be gun shy because of the APR sanctions on the hoops team. Fooey. There are no issues, none, with the academic performance of the football team. Need to make things like this happen if you're gonna swim with sharks.

 

[businesslawyer]

Are you kidding me, Biz? Did you not understand that my saying, "Bottom line," was the bottom line for how I felt about the situation? Did you think that I was ending everyone's ability to debate it because I typed the words, "Bottom line"?

Also, to Jimmy's point (which you seconded), I DID NOT argue that the kid should pay his own way and wait a year to play at UConn. My point was directed to you, Biz, who had stated that he couldn't get his GPA up because he was a college graduate. That is not the case. The case is that he is out of time to make it happen, and I wished the young man good luck in the future. (all of this is on this page of the thread, so I'm not sure what the confusion is all about)

Dan -- simple question. In your experience, do people with college degrees go back to college to get their GPAs up? Because I can honestly tell you I don't know of a single one. And, thus, even if a theoreticaI possibility, don't see it as changing the discussion about UConn's admissions in any way.

That's all. Have a good day. We are agreeing about more than we're disagreeing about.

 

[UConnDan97]

I think the position that you and others have taken on this is very reasonable. I just happen to disagree with it.

I don't think UConn's academic reputation is on the line if they admit a grad school student like McNeal. I think they totally fubar'ed this whole thing. People have made the point that admissions may be gun shy because of the APR sanctions on the hoops team. Fooey. There are no issues, none, with the academic performance of the football team. Need to make things like this happen if you're gonna swim with sharks.

I respect that. And I agree with you that this decision was not made with any deference to the basketball APR situation. I guess what I am arguing is that UConn did make an attempt to "swim with the sharks" by lowering a pre-set standard from 3.0 to 2.7. Let me put this another way: if McNeal doesn't get into a program that would have lowered itself to 2.7GPA if he was carrying a 2.65GPA, I would have been right there on that mountaintop with you, screaming "WTF??" But he was significantly shy of even the concession, so how can I argue it?

 

[UConnDan97]

Dan -- simple question. In your experience, do people with college degrees go back to college to get their GPAs up? Because I can honestly tell you I don't know of a single one. And, thus, even if a theoreticaI possibility, don't see it as changing the discussion about UConn's admissions in any way.

That's all. Have a good day. We are agreeing about more than we're disagreeing about.

Well, now you know one. I'm that one. I took graduate level courses as a non-degree student after already obtaining my B.S. so that I could be accepted into grad school. And yes, I paid my own way. Is it affecting my view on the situation? Perhaps. But at least you now know of someone who has done it...

 

[UConnDan97]

By the way, I still have four years of eligibility left, so....

 

[businesslawyer]

Well, now you know one. I'm that one. I took graduate level courses as a non-degree student after already obtaining my B.S. so that I could be accepted into grad school. And yes, I paid my own way. Is it affecting my view on the situation? Perhaps. But at least you now know of someone who has done it...

Fair enough. Did the school really recompute your GPA after you graduated? What do they do about class rank?

 

[UConnDan97]

Fair enough. Did the school really recompute your GPA after you graduated? What do they do about class rank?

Even after 2 additional graduate level courses, I wasn't able to get into UConn grad (the standard for me was 3.0, and I would have made it had they extended me a 2.7 offer, ironically). I eventually ended up doing my grad work at a smaller college, and used the grad course grades along with my B.S. transcript as the "I belong in your grad school" pitch. The smaller school was not as strict as UConn.

In terms of class rank, I'm not sure. Perhaps they don't even think about that statistic, assuming they have ample supply of applications above 3.0.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I'm just honestly surprised this is an issue. Somehow the Notre Dames and Stanfords of the world manage to make this work, and here we are, the University of Connecticut, a school which isn't even allowed to play in the NCAA Tournament this year because of poor academic scores, and we can't figure out a way to sneak this kid in with a passing GPA?

Baffling stuff.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm just honestly surprised this is an issue. Somehow the Notre Dames and Stanfords of the world manage to make this work, and here we are, the University of Connecticut, a school which isn't even allowed to play in the NCAA Tournament this year because of poor academic scores, and we can't figure out a way to sneak this kid in with a passing GPA?

Baffling stuff.

I think the issue is more likely that we don't offer a Masters of Science in General Studies...

 

[UConnRock]

I'm just honestly surprised this is an issue. Somehow the Notre Dames and Stanfords of the world manage to make this work, and here we are, the University of Connecticut, a school which isn't even allowed to play in the NCAA Tournament this year because of poor academic scores, and we can't figure out a way to sneak this kid in with a passing GPA?

Baffling stuff.

The only two exapmles I can think of where a kid transferred into a graduate program of a BCS level football school was Paulus transferring from Duke. I am sure Paulus had a decent GPA and the fact that it was a Duke to 'Cuse transfer made it a no brainer admissions-wise. The other was Wilson transferring from NC State to Wisconsin. As stated previously Wilson had something like a 3.76 GPA so grades were not an issue. Grad vs. Undergrad admissions just can't be thought of as being the same playing field.