Boy do I miss Pat and ....

[JustinesGuy]

Why? You don't trust what UConn has is real? What proof do you need?
This isn't Tom Brady or Bill Russell or Mickey Mantle or Babe Ruth getting too old and retiring. Geno retools every year.
Are you reading about Christyn Williams?
This could be blasphemous to say at this point of the season (knock on wood) but I could see UConn being more athletic next year. Then 3 key seniors graduate and the program keeps chugging down the track. One thing I'm looking forward to in the future is when Crystal Dangerfield becomes a key performer. That will be crazy fun to watch. And Megan.

HopJim is making a valid point. I don't think he's saying UCONN is going to be awful I think he's saying nothing lasts forever and its possible we have a few off years. I know we have two players leaving that are trusted, solid players and three more players that are tremendously good or great leaving the following year. So the question becomes do we continue on and keep the 30 plus win seasons going or do we take a step back? You do know all great programs take a step back from time to time. In the mens game, Ucla did, Unlv did, Michigan did, Georgetown did.... In the women's game, Tennessee did, Louisiana Tech did, Stanford did, Baylor did..... It happened there and it will happen here. You make a good point, we will have Danger and she will probably be the best Pg in the country and thats great. Are you so confident in Walker next year or in general? One can make the case that she is not much better today than day one... Do you really want to point to garbage time minutes? The next recruiting class should be solid and we will see. Lets see who signs LOI'S for 19 and 20, that will really tell the tale. Do we hit on BB? MB? Hailey Van Lith? KW? Do we have some key misses to one team? I think its possible, why not? Only time will tell.

 

[JustinesGuy]

That's a bit strong, no? Do you really hate Muffet, Kim, and Vic?

Why do you hate Muff et? She seems l ike a class coach... IDK

 

[MD#12Fan]

That's a bit strong, no? Do you really hate Muffet, Kim, and Vic?

Come on, let's not get sappy! Are you new school where everyone hugs and kisses before and after games? Of course you hate your rivals. Watch the NBA at 50 documentary and see how Magic and Bird felt about each other before they did the famous Converse commercial.
Don't take everything so literal!

 

[HoopsFan21]

Why do you hate Muff et? She seems l ike a class coach... IDK

I don't hate her. I don't hate any coach really. That was kinda my question to MD#12Fan.

 

[MD#12Fan]

HopJim is making a valid point. I don't think he's saying UCONN is going to be awful I think he's saying nothing lasts forever and its possible we have a few off years. I know we have two players leaving that are trusted, solid players and three more players that are tremendously good or great leaving the following year. So the question becomes do we continue on and keep the 30 plus win seasons going or do we take a step back? You do know all great programs take a step back from time to time. In the mens game, Ucla did, Unlv did, Michigan did, Georgetown did.... In the women's game, Tennessee did, Louisiana Tech did, Stanford did, Baylor did..... It happened there and it will happen here. You make a good point, we will have Danger and she will probably be the best Pg in the country and thats great. Are you so confident in Walker next year or in general? One can make the case that she is not much better today than day one... Do you really want to point to garbage time minutes? The next recruiting class should be solid and we will see. Lets see who signs LOI'S for 19 and 20, that will really tell the tale. Do we hit on BB? MB? Hailey Van Lith? KW? Do we have some key misses to one team? I think its possible, why not? Only time will tell.

Great post! Thanks for the response!
Not sure I see any evidence of a drop off. Wasn't last year supposed to be a drop off, after the graduation of the first 3 picks in the WNBA draft, including one of the top 3 Huskies of all-time.
Every team you mentioned had a "short" run compared to UConn, except UCLA. Wooden didn't have a drop off after he starting winning.
All bets are off if Geno leaves. That's different. I'm talking UConn with Geno.
One more point- I bet Geno would actually love a couple of years in which he's not the prohibitive favorite. I bet he would pull a rabbit out of his hat. Maybe like UCLA when they had Wicks and Rowe, after Alcindor and before Walton.
I think the thing that is wearing Geno down are these incredibly high expectations everyone has.

 

[JustinesGuy]

Great post! Thanks for the response!
Not sure I see any evidence of a drop off. Wasn't last year supposed to be a drop off, after the graduation of the first 3 picks in the WNBA draft, including one of the top 3 Huskies of all-time.
Every team you mentioned had a "short" run compared to UConn, except UCLA. Wooden didn't have a drop off after he starting winning.
All bets are off if Geno leaves. That's different. I'm talking UConn with Geno.
One more point- I bet Geno would actually love a couple of years in which he's not the prohibitive favorite. I bet he would pull a rabbit out of his hat. Maybe like UCLA when they had Wicks and Rowe, after Alcindor and before Walton.
I think the thing that is wearing Geno down are these incredibly high expectations everyone has.

I agree with your post too. I don't see any drop off next year if everyone's healthy. Lou is going to be impossibly good and will take over games if needed. Time will tell how walker and the frosh are. It's the following year that bears watching. I'm not predicting gloom and doom please don't get me wrong. I'm merely saying it's possible there's slippage when Lou, pheese, and Z graduate.
If trend follows, yeah walker will be solid, the frosh will be tremendous and well sign some great talent along the way.

 

[hoopingcrane]

However, even towards the end of her career, Tennessee was falling off. The game had passed Pat by. She was trying to update offensive schemes, famously by canoodling with Harry Paretta to learn motion offense, but still, the Tenn mantra was "get kids with great athleticism, tenacious defense, stale offense, and score off offensive boards and putbacks".

After Parker left with the 2 NC's, Pat coached 4 more years, had a total of 26 losses, and the NCAA appearances ended in exits in the 1st round, sweet 16 and a pair of elite 8's. Honestly, no better than Holly has done since then (3 elite 8's, 2 sweet 16's, 2 2nd rounds.

Bottom line is that we have no idea. I'm sure Tenn fans feel that if Pat had not gotten ill, and was still coaching, she would have earned a few NC's in the past 6 years, or at least made final 4's and NC games. I don't think she would have fared much better than Holly has, but the truth probably lies somewhere in between. RIP Pat Summit - she certainly had her flaws, but no one can deny she is a legend and one of the greatest to ever coach the game...[/QUOTE]

Well said. Without the ability to teach offense, still a problem for many, she was dependent on the one great player, which is why the failure to recruit Maya was delves Tati gentlemen.

 

[Plebe]

Well said. Without the ability to teach offense, still a problem for many, she was dependent on the one great player, which is why the failure to recruit Maya was delves Tati gentlemen.

Pat Summitt's magic sauce was in the force of her charisma, which was enough to draw the pick of the litter among recruits and inspire a quasi-messianic devotion among her followers. Until Geno came along, it was also enough to paper over her relatively pedestrian grasp of Xs and Os.

Collect the best athletes, motivate and cajole them to pour utmost effort toward defense and rebounding, and win a lot of games and trophies.

 

[Bronx23]

A couple of thoughts - some of which many of you may agree with, other thoughts many of you may not.

First, what makes up a great rivalry? Many components, but generally great hard fought games, players who dislike each other, coaches who dislike each other, and fan bases who dislike each other.

1. Dee certainly had no love for anything orange. Both teams wanted to beat the tar out of the other team, and I suspect no love lost there (anyone else remember "Boo Randall"?).
   
2. Pat accused Geno several times of cheating, and he had no tolerance for that since he did nothing wrong. No love lost there. Add to that - she hated his Philly sarcasm, and he loved to tweak and irritate her Southern facade.
   
3. Even now the fan bases dislike each other, and for the most part, dislike the other team.
4. Most games back in the day were between 2 top 5 teams, often #'s 1 and 2 so they almost always had big implications for the national WCBB landscape

However, even towards the end of her career, Tennessee was falling off. The game had passed Pat by. She was trying to update offensive schemes, famously by canoodling with Harry Paretta to learn motion offense, but still, the Tenn mantra was "get kids with great athleticism, tenacious defense, stale offense, and score off offensive boards and putbacks".

The thing about that strategy is that Pat was WAY more charismatic than Holly and was able to demand and get more out of her players so her teams performed better. After Parker left with the 2 NC's, Pat coached 4 more years, had a total of 26 losses, and the NCAA appearances ended in exits in the 1st round, sweet 16 and a pair of elite 8's. Honestly, no better than Holly has done since then (3 elite 8's, 2 sweet 16's, 2 2nd round).

Pat was a legend, but her team was already falling off and while it's ALL speculation, I suspect her teams would not have fared any better if she were still here and Holly was still the Assoc HC. I'm sure they would be somewhat better, and of course Pat being the legend she is, by sheer force of will would generally get more out of her teams than Holly has gotten. And given that Pat knew she was not great at teaching offense, would have reached out and done way more than Holly has done to fix that (IMHO).

Bottom line is that we have no idea. I'm sure Tenn fans feel that if Pat had not gotten ill, and was still coaching, she would have earned a few NC's in the past 6 years, or at least made final 4's and NC games. I don't think she would have fared much better than Holly has, but the truth probably lies somewhere in between. RIP Pat Summit - she certainly had her flaws, but no one can deny she is a legend and one of the greatest to ever coach the game...

Really good post and analysis.
The only thing I would have added or suggested that it's likely Pat's Alzheimer's disease was likely affecting her before the last year. So while you are clearly right, I think she would have done better those last six years. Maybe it's just a different way of saying what you did.
She was a great coach and teacher and one of the true trailblazers of the women's game. She gave Geno and everyone something to strive for just as Geno does now for the other coaches and programs.
The intensity of the rivalry and that for ten or more years, it was pretty back and forth.
Bronx23

 

[Bronx23]

HopJim is making a valid point. I don't think he's saying UCONN is going to be awful I think he's saying nothing lasts forever and its possible we have a few off years. I know we have two players leaving that are trusted, solid players and three more players that are tremendously good or great leaving the following year. So the question becomes do we continue on and keep the 30 plus win seasons going or do we take a step back? You do know all great programs take a step back from time to time. In the mens game, Ucla did, Unlv did, Michigan did, Georgetown did.... In the women's game, Tennessee did, Louisiana Tech did, Stanford did, Baylor did..... It happened there and it will happen here. You make a good point, we will have Danger and she will probably be the best Pg in the country and thats great. Are you so confident in Walker next year or in general? One can make the case that she is not much better today than day one... Do you really want to point to garbage time minutes? The next recruiting class should be solid and we will see. Lets see who signs LOI'S for 19 and 20, that will really tell the tale. Do we hit on BB? MB? Hailey Van Lith? KW? Do we have some key misses to one team? I think its possible, why not? Only time will tell.

Think you are right on target JustinesGuy!
Yes pretty much every coach and program has up and down years and while I believe with the right hire, after Geno & CD retire, there will be a drop off.
Questions are how much and how long?
Bronx23

 

[my2cents]

Save the nostalgia for the men's team.
I agree, it would be great to see the Tenn/Uconn game revived....but most likely the game would end in a lopsided Uconn win.
As much as I enjoyed our past Women's teams, I really like our current group of young women.
They will be tested in the upcoming games and I will be rooting for them.