Borges: Sanogo could see "limited minutes"; AJax calf issue; Diggins unlikely to see the floor | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Borges: Sanogo could see "limited minutes"; AJax calf issue; Diggins unlikely to see the floor

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Exodus said:
I’d be amazed if Diggins made more mistakes than Gaffney. But looks like we’ll never know.
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It’s very hard to understand the logic in not at least trying him. It’s almost literally impossible for him to give us less than what Gaffney has the last few games.

I mean, I guess he could forget what basket he’s supposed to shoot at……
 
Rico444 said:
At the same time, he trashed his freshman, saying we'll lose by double digits if they play more. He could have gotten his point across a little more tactfully.
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It wouldn't be Dan Hurley if he was being tactful - he has a problem with speaking off the cuff and coaching to the moment
 
Dogdeacon said:
Anyone else read the last sentence of that first paragraph; "But, the substitutions and minutes are probably the easiest part of my job.” to indicate that the reason substitutions are the easiest part of his job b/c they are predetermined, he doesn't do significant adjustments on the fly or in-game changes which is easy versus taking a more challenging & productive harder route.
Not saying there are no changes whatsoever, but seems like he closely follows a pre-game map - possibly to avoid over-reactions and we are left with decidedly under-reactions.
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Yes.
 
I've been very pro-Hurley, but these comments about freshmen have me pretty frustrated. Would Hurley have played Beverley and had freshman Shabazz glued to the pine in 2011? I guess we'll never know, but come on...
 
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Greedo said:
I've been very pro-Hurley, but these comments about freshmen have me pretty frustrated. Would Hurley have played Beverley and had freshman Shabazz glued to the pine in 2011? I guess we'll never know, but come on...
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No because he's played the freshmen who are ready every year. Bouknight played a ton of minutes 2 years ago, Sanogo and Jackson did last year, Hawkins is playing this year
 
Huskybass said:
Who could blame him? He has played a total of 38 minutes against the Cupcakes, each of whom UConn beat by at least 24 points, and in some cases by over 50 points. If you can't find at least 10 mpg for Diggins in those blowouts, you aren't using your opportunities to develop your younger guys. Anyone who is being remotely objective has to see that.
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I agree to a point but not to an automatic 10 minutes. Some minutes would be nice so you could point to things he did or didn't do in the game and discuss what he needs to work on and why, until you see improvement, his minutes will be limited.

We don't know what goes on in practice and the private discussions, coach to player, but it just seems something is not right here. If you, as the coach, were thrilled to sign RD, replete with praise for multiple aspects of his game and character, what kept you from playing him 5 to 10 minutes in the blowouts?

Take a look at Creighton's and Marquette's rosters, filled with freshmen who are playing some meaningful minutes. Did our staff overrate these recruits?
 
Dogdeacon said:
Anyone else read the last sentence of that first paragraph; "But, the substitutions and minutes are probably the easiest part of my job.” to indicate that the reason substitutions are the easiest part of his job b/c they are predetermined, he doesn't do significant adjustments on the fly or in-game changes which is easy versus taking a more challenging & productive harder route.
Not saying there are no changes whatsoever, but seems like he closely follows a pre-game map - possibly to avoid over-reactions and we are left with decidedly under-reactions.
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I’d say it’s not a secret that Hurley is a pretty game plan heavy coach. His scouting reports are excellent, especially defensively. Playing to tendencies, attacking certain matchups, allowing specific players to shoot while doubling posts etc etc. He’s feasted on certain matchups offensively as well, especially with Sanogo (see Auburn, Kessler matchup). Sometimes he gets a bit blindsided and the team doesn’t adjust quite as quickly as you’d like. Auburn press, PC switching screens are a few that come to mind hes even mentioned. When guys know their role and how he distributes minutes, it’s usually a good thing. Sometimes tho I’d wish he’d just yank a guy or work other players in more quickly. When it works, it’s helpful. When it doesn’t, we see older guys having long stretches of bad play.
 
Greedo said:
I've been very pro-Hurley, but these comments about freshmen have me pretty frustrated. Would Hurley have played Beverley and had freshman Shabazz glued to the pine in 2011? I guess we'll never know, but come on...
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His freshmen position is pretty clear,

He plays the ones that are more ready (Hawkins, Bouknight, Sanogo, Akok) and ones that are especially needed (Gaffney after Gilbert struggles, Jackson after Bouk injury and Adams struggles).

If Polley and Gilbert continue to struggle, he will make moves. But he's going to stick with who he thinks are his best and most experienced players until they demonstrate conclusively to him that they're worse than a raw freshman. He's not as reactive as the Boneyard (which makes sense, he sees a bigger sample of their play), but he does make changes.
 
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navery12 said:
No because he's played the freshmen who are ready every year. Bouknight played a ton of minutes 2 years ago, Sanogo and Jackson did last year, Hawkins is playing this year
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True, but you could compare Hawkins this year to a freshman Lamb. Lamb averaged 27.8 minutes as a freshman. Was freshman Lamb better than Hawkins? My memory doesn't serve me well enough to remember for sure. But I would say they're comparable and Hawkins should be playing more. Hawkins is averaging 17.8, but that would probably be lower if not for injuries.

Similarly, Sanogo should have been playing more early last year, the St. John's game being the most egregious example.

This is honestly my only complaint with Hurley (besides his reliance on the weave on offense, which is less common this year), and I do think over time this will shift and he will learn that there are certain freshmen that he can rely on more.
 
Greedo said:
True, but you could compare Hawkins this year to a freshman Lamb. Lamb averaged 27.8 minutes as a freshman. Was freshman Lamb better than Hawkins? My memory doesn't serve me well enough to remember for sure. But I would say they're comparable and Hawkins should be playing more. Hawkins is averaging 17.8, but that would probably be lower if not for injuries.
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Lamb shot better from 3, 2 and FT line than Hawkins has thus far. Shooting in the paint is the most biggest difference, Hawkins has been rather bad finishing, while Lamb was incredible for a freshman. Lamb also turned it over less and fouled less often per possession.
 
Greedo said:
True, but you could compare Hawkins this year to a freshman Lamb. Lamb averaged 27.8 minutes as a freshman. Was freshman Lamb better than Hawkins? My memory doesn't serve me well enough to remember for sure. But I would say they're comparable and Hawkins should be playing more. Hawkins is averaging 17.8, but that would probably be lower if not for injuries.

Similarly, Sanogo should have been playing more early last year, the St. John's game being the most egregious example.

This is honestly my only complaint with Hurley (besides his reliance on the weave on offense, which is less common this year), and I do think over time this will shift and he will learn that there are certain freshmen that he can rely on more.
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Yes lamb was better than Hawkins as a freshman
 
AJax got 12 defensive rebounds vs. Providence. Nearly every time, he attempted to push the pace.

This team is trying to push the pace. Hurley wants us to push the pace.

Sometimes, you tip your hat to the other team if they hustle back and prevent you from getting a transition basket.

You haven't really been watching any of our games this year to be saying that "we aren't pushing the pace"
 
Exodus said:
I’d be amazed if Diggins made more mistakes than Gaffney. But looks like we’ll never know.
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It's not just the mistakes Gaffney makes, it's also the (for lack of another word) hesitation he plays with. He either is passive or goes hell bent to the rim.

Not sure who/how Gaffney is best used, put him in for Cole, have him play with Cole, have him in with Polley, have him come in and hunt shots/drives like he is a mini Bouknight, etc. Need more out of 1st guard off bench.

There is something to be said for a little game experience (2 to 5 minutes) over the early course of freshman year for players to gain a "feel" for how to play at this level. Hurley's reluctance to play Diggins at all seems not the best course.
 
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Greedo said:
True, but you could compare Hawkins this year to a freshman Lamb. Lamb averaged 27.8 minutes as a freshman.
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Maybe compare rosters while you're at it? You'll find a big discrepancy in the upperclassmen of both programs in both quantity and quality (relative to the roster).
 
auror said:
Lamb shot better from 3, 2 and FT line than Hawkins has thus far. Shooting in the paint is the most biggest difference, Hawkins has been rather bad finishing, while Lamb was incredible for a freshman. Lamb also turned it over less and fouled less often per possession.
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Lamb also didn't have 3 upperclassmen and a talented Sophomore to compete with for minutes....(Gaffney, Martin, Polley, Jackson).

He had to beat out Donnell Beverly, Niels Giffey (also a freshman), and Jamal Coombs-McDaniel.

And as you've implied, Lamb was just better.
 
auror said:
His freshmen position is pretty clear,

He plays the ones that are more ready (Hawkins, Bouknight, Sanogo, Akok) and ones that are especially needed (Gaffney after Gilbert struggles, Jackson after Bouk injury and Adams struggles).

If Polley and Gilbert continue to struggle, he will make moves. But he's going to stick with who he thinks are his best and most experienced players until they demonstrate conclusively to him that they're worse than a raw freshman. He's not as reactive as the Boneyard (which makes sense, he sees a bigger sample of their play), but he does make changes.
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This is well said. What I wish is that Hurley could find a couple minutes, even just during the first half of games, to get Diggins' feet wet. Feel like those early spot minutes are helpful to being ready later in the season without being too costly to any particular game.
 
My guess is the mistakes Hurley's talking about freshmen making are more on the defensive end. Plus he sees these guys everyday, have to trust his judgement. As others have said, its not like he's never played freshmen.
 
Hungryhusky99 said:
Bouknight came off the bench until mid January, and only started once Polley was out for the year.
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Yes, notice how all I said is Hurley plays freshman and nothing about starting. He was in the rotation from the day he was ready to play, even if he took 2 weeks longer to start Bouknight than the Boneyard coaches thought he should have
 
I get his position on the Freshman, I don’t necessarily agree with it though. My whole issue is if Gaff continuously struggles and is a net negative, why not just give Diggins a little run to see what he can do, if not just for like a 3 minute stretch in the middle of halves? Then if he is worse than Gaff so be it. But why not just try? Maybe he becomes a sparkplug and develops from there, maybe the moment is too much. But not changing anything or trying anything new just seems like complacency.
 
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auror said:
His freshmen position is pretty clear,

He plays the ones that are more ready (Hawkins, Bouknight, Sanogo, Akok) and ones that are especially needed (Gaffney after Gilbert struggles, Jackson after Bouk injury and Adams struggles).

If Polley and Gilbert continue to struggle, he will make moves. But he's going to stick with who he thinks are his best and most experienced players until they demonstrate conclusively to him that they're worse than a raw freshman. He's not as reactive as the Boneyard (which makes sense, he sees a bigger sample of their play), but he does make changes.
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@Hungryhusky99 addressed what forced Dan Hurley's hand regarding Bouknight, and if I recall Sanogo only after he expressed serious discontent with his role (plus the wailing from fans).
 
navery12 said:
No because he's played the freshmen who are ready every year. Bouknight played a ton of minutes 2 years ago, Sanogo and Jackson did last year, Hawkins is playing this year
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Jackson, Sanogo, Hawkins have all been in the 16-17 mpg range, you could argue he should have played them more. Sanogo you could see immediately would be a star, Jackson had the potential and has blossomed this year, Hawkins you can see the potential and the need for his shooting.

What's more bothersome than the relatively slow development of future stars, is the consistent DNPs for guys who may not be stars, but who could still add great value in a key role (e.g. Diggins as ballhandler and free throw shooter to protect a lead down the stretch).

Whereas Polley and Gaffney seem to have plateaued, they just don't seem to be progressing. To me that devalues their skills a little. I like the Jim Calhoun approach of optimizing for March, not December.
 
navery12 said:
Yes, notice how all I said is Hurley plays freshman and nothing about starting. He was in the rotation from the day he was ready to play, even if he took 2 weeks longer to start Bouknight than the Boneyard coaches thought he should have
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He is not the best example because of the off court stuff, but pure talent wise he should've been playing 30+ minutes from day 1.
 
I am shocked at Gaffneys lack of development as a point guard. He is a shooting guard and has had some decent games playing off the ball more. But now his defense has regressed.
 
pj said:
Jackson, Sanogo, Hawkins have all been in the 16-17 mpg range, you could argue he should have played them more. Sanogo you could see immediately would be a star, Jackson had the potential and has blossomed this year, Hawkins you can see the potential and the need for his shooting.

What's more bothersome than the relatively slow development of future stars, is the consistent DNPs for guys who may not be stars, but who could still add great value in a key role (e.g. Diggins as ballhandler and free throw shooter to protect a lead down the stretch).

Whereas Polley and Gaffney seem to have plateaued, they just don't seem to be progressing. To me that devalues their skills a little. I like the Jim Calhoun approach of optimizing for March, not December.
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I just don't think it's realistic to expect an 11 man rotation, someone has to be the odd man out. My only point has been that we're not in practice every day, and based on what we've seen from Dan Hurley, every freshman who's earned minutes has gotten them. Maybe they get 18 instead of 25 like the Boneyard wants, but nobody has been getting 0 minutes when they've deserved big minutes

And saying ignore December to play the freshman through their mistakes sounds good in theory. But is everyone here gonna have the patience to deal with losses as we work through freshman mistakes? That seems unlikely. We're in year 4 and need to win games, I trust the staff to develop guys like Diggins and Johnson in practice so when an injury pops up they're ready to step in
 
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