Boneyard Top 25: next ballots due Mon. morning

[Plebe]

The next installment of the BY Top 25 poll is rapidly approaching.

Ballots are due to me, via PM, by Monday, Nov. 18 at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. These ballots should reflect all games played through Sunday, Nov. 17.

Again, full ballots (of 25 teams) are encouraged; short ballots (of at least 10 teams) are accepted.

Resources:

• The BY25 preseason poll results
• @Lorcan 's spreadsheet of BY25 team results since last poll (caveat: may not be entirely up to date):
• Warren Nolan's site (click on "Expanded AP Poll" or "Expanded Coaches Poll" to see latest results of teams in those polls).

 

[TheFarmFan]

• @Lorcan 's spreadsheet of BY25 team results since last poll (caveat: may not be entirely up to date):

@Lorcan, if you're comfortable making this editable, I'm sure many of us would be happy to crowd-source this to help you keep it up to date. (Just a suggestion to reduce any one poster's burden.)

 

[Lorcan]

@Lorcan, if you're comfortable making this editable, I'm sure many of us would be happy to crowd-source this to help you keep it up to date. (Just a suggestion to reduce any one poster's burden.)

If anyone wants to request access I’m happy to make it editable. Currently singing Thank U, Next at Karaoke. Wish me luck.

 

[Plebe]

Bump for reminder. Ballots due tomorrow at 9 a.m. Eastern time.

 

[Lorcan]

I'm updating the spreadsheet right now, should have it done in a few.

 

[triaddukefan]

By my count... 7 teams should be dropping out of the poll.... gonna be interesting to see which teams will be from say 17-25

 

[Plebe]

Nine ballots have been submitted so far (for comparison, 21 were received in the preseason poll). Keep 'em coming!

I was curious about how turnout would be affected by the tight turnaround from the completion of Sunday's games to the Monday morning deadline. I can be convinced the extend the deadline to 10 a.m. if that would help some folks.

 

[militarydog]

I’ll be curious to see if the Boneyard Poll drops a few teams further in the polls (or totally out) than it seems the AP or Coaches seem to do.

 

[triaddukefan]

I’ll be curious to see if the Boneyard Poll drops a few teams further in the polls (or totally out) than it seems the AP or Coaches seem to do.

No mercy was shown in the poll that I submitted

 

[mbr33ct]

@Plebe in what format can one submit this poll to you? Excel or others? Thank you for your services.

 

[Plebe]

@Plebe in what format can one submit this poll to you? Excel or others? Thank you for your services.

Most people just make it a simple list in a private message, but an Excel file or other attachment is perfectly fine as well, as long as the attachment works.

Last call for ballots. I'll accept them up until 10 a.m., an hour and half from now. We now have 12 ballots submitted, hoping for some more.

 

[Plebe]

Results are in:

Also receiving votes (on at least two ballots): Drake (26), Gonzaga (26), Missouri State (24), West Virginia (20), Notre Dame (17), Minnesota (5), Rice (2).

Teams listed on only one ballot: Arizona State, Western Kentucky, Princeton, Virginia Tech, Northwestern, Georgia Tech.

Moving in: #16 Michigan State, #20 South Dakota, #21 Tennessee, #25 South Florida
Dropping out: #15 Notre Dame, #16 Texas, #19 Minnesota, #20 Arizona State, #23 Drake

 

[triaddukefan]

I'll withhold comments until after I eat.

 

[militarydog]

AP Poll is out and they are equally as unkind to ND, Texas and Arizona State.

 

[Lorcan]

I just realized that I’ve left Florida State off both my polls. When they get an unexpected boost in the next poll, we can call it the Lorcan Effect.

I’m surprised that more people didn’t rank Missouri State after their recent run. They certainly have better wins than a lot of teams out there such as Michigan, Indiana, Arkansas, and Syracuse.

I make no apologies for singlehandedly making South Dakota ranked higher than Tennessee. It is concerning to me that there is a lack of appreciation for some pretty great non-P5 teams out there, but I guess since UConn is #4, everything is just fine and dandy.

 

[Plebe]

I just realized that I’ve left Florida State off both my polls. When they get an unexpected boost in the next poll, we can call it the Lorcan Effect.

I’m surprised that more people didn’t rank Missouri State after their recent run. They certainly have better wins than a lot of teams out there such as Michigan, Indiana, Arkansas, and Syracuse.

I make no apologies for singlehandedly making South Dakota ranked higher than Tennessee. It is concerning to me that there is a lack of appreciation for some pretty great non-P5 teams out there, but I guess since UConn is #4, everything is just fine and dandy.

Ha oops huh. But given the point differential, Florida State’s position wouldn’t have improved unless you voted them 1st or 2nd.

 

[LoTrader]

I must say, the Boneyard poll/ranking is far more thoughtful than the rest of these "official" rankings. Thanks @Plebe for taking the time/effort to create and keep updated.

 

[Argonaut]

I just realized that I’ve left Florida State off both my polls. When they get an unexpected boost in the next poll, we can call it the Lorcan Effect.

I’m surprised that more people didn’t rank Missouri State after their recent run. They certainly have better wins than a lot of teams out there such as Michigan, Indiana, Arkansas, and Syracuse.

I make no apologies for singlehandedly making South Dakota ranked higher than Tennessee. It is concerning to me that there is a lack of appreciation for some pretty great non-P5 teams out there, but I guess since UConn is #4, everything is just fine and dandy.

I'm not sure that's a completely fair statement.

I can't speak for others, but I watch a lot of women's basketball (read: I half watch a lot of women's basketball while I'm cross stitching and sewing), and for teams in the MVC, Summit League, Big Sky, etc., it's just not as easy to watch them play. I think it's hard rank a mid-major that you haven't seen play, especially when you're trying to compare them to P5 teams.

 

[TerpWomenFan]

I must say, the Boneyard poll/ranking is far more thoughtful than the rest of these "official" rankings. Thanks @Plebe for taking the time/effort to create and keep updated.

The Boneyarders who post here a very knowledgeable. That's why I'm on here all the time.

 

[triaddukefan]

How is South Florida ranked?

i know why

 

[Argonaut]

How is South Florida ranked?

i know why

That win over Texas.

We'll see if they can keep it within 30 against Baylor.

 

[Plebe]

I’m surprised that more people didn’t rank Missouri State after their recent run. They certainly have better wins than a lot of teams out there such as Michigan, Indiana, Arkansas, and Syracuse.

I make no apologies for singlehandedly making South Dakota ranked higher than Tennessee. It is concerning to me that there is a lack of appreciation for some pretty great non-P5 teams out there, but I guess since UConn is #4, everything is just fine and dandy.

You make a good point, but to be fair, the same could be said of Baylor. The only teams that don't have better wins than Baylor are the teams that are winless.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Results are in:

View attachment 48226

Also receiving votes (on at least two ballots): Drake (26), Gonzaga (26), Missouri State (24), West Virginia (20), Notre Dame (17), Minnesota (5), Rice (2).

Teams listed on only one ballot: Arizona State, Western Kentucky, Princeton, Virginia Tech, Northwestern, Georgia Tech.

Moving in: #16 Michigan State, #20 South Dakota, #21 Tennessee, #25 South Florida
Dropping out: #15 Notre Dame, #16 Texas, #19 Minnesota, #20 Arizona State, #23 Drake

It's funny that this board has Stanford over UConn, because I had UConn higher than Stanford. I guess maybe we're all our own teams' worst critics. =)

 

[Plebe]

It's funny that this board has Stanford over UConn, because I had UConn higher than Stanford. I guess maybe we're all our own teams' worst critics. =)

It was very close in points. Both teams have shown vulnerability, in different ways. Perhaps one can debate whether going OT with Gonzaga is better or worse than limping to a 12 or 13 point win over Cal and Vanderbilt.

 

[CompSci87]

Perhaps Gonzaga should be higher than "also receiving votes". We'll see as the season goes on, of course.

 

[Lorcan]

I'm not sure that's a completely fair statement.

I can't speak for others, but I watch a lot of women's basketball (read: I half watch a lot of women's basketball while I'm cross stitching and sewing), and for teams in the MVC, Summit League, Big Sky, etc., it's just not as easy to watch them play. I think it's hard rank a mid-major that you haven't seen play, especially when you're trying to compare them to P5 teams.

I think it’s interesting, because access to some leagues is easier than others. I subscribe to ESPN+ and have a TV Login, so I can get access to the Summit, Ivy, Missouri Valley, ACC, and SEC right off the bat. The South Dakota vs. Drake game was and is one of the highest quality games that I’ve seen this year between two teams. I have a harder time getting access to BiG games or PAC-12 which are 2 of the so called Power Conferences. I guess it does depend on your tv subscriber and how much you might shell out to have access to more.

Missouri State has impressive wins over Oklahoma, Minnesota, and fellow mid-major Boise State. How a Sweet 16 team from last year, with these sorts of wins doesn’t get ranked is mind boggling to me.

Western Kentucky hammered a solid Belmont team that crushed UCF to the delight of fans here. They’ve also scheduled traditional mid powers in Central Michigan, Mercer, and made the short trip to play mighty Louisville.

It’s easy to say that it’s hard to judge mid-majors, but there are plenty of majors with huge question marks. Michigan after the departure of Thome. Tennessee beat a severely weakened Notre Dame that almost lost to Fordham, but also nearly lost to East Tennessee State.

I think it’s hard, because everyone has their own justifications for how they rank teams, and how they gauge the strength of the team. My processes often rely on fact instead of conjecture where possible. As someone pointed out, we can’t really rank Baylor on anything apart from past history, so some opinion has to come into play. I find it easier to use facts to distinguish teams in the 15-30 range. Then again, maybe I stan too much for the mid-major as evidenced by Drake AND South Dakota in the top 20.

 

[Plebe]

I think it’s interesting, because access to some leagues is easier than others. I subscribe to ESPN+ and have a TV Login, so I can get access to the Summit, Ivy, Missouri Valley, ACC, and SEC right off the bat. The South Dakota vs. Drake game was and is one of the highest quality games that I’ve seen this year between two teams. I have a harder time getting access to BiG games or PAC-12 which are 2 of the so called Power Conferences. I guess it does depend on your tv subscriber and how much you might shell out to have access to more.

Missouri State has impressive wins over Oklahoma, Minnesota, and fellow mid-major Boise State. How a Sweet 16 team from last year, with these sorts of wins doesn’t get ranked is mind boggling to me.

Western Kentucky hammered a solid Belmont team that crushed UCF to the delight of fans here. They’ve also scheduled traditional mid powers in Central Michigan, Mercer, and made the short trip to play mighty Louisville.

It’s easy to say that it’s hard to judge mid-majors, but there are plenty of majors with huge question marks. Michigan after the departure of Thome. Tennessee beat a severely weakened Notre Dame that almost lost to Fordham, but also nearly lost to East Tennessee State.

I think it’s hard, because everyone has their own justifications for how they rank teams, and how they gauge the strength of the team. My processes often rely on fact instead of conjecture where possible. As someone pointed out, we can’t really rank Baylor on anything apart from past history, so some opinion has to come into play. I find it easier to use facts to distinguish teams in the 15-30 range. Then again, maybe I stan too much for the mid-major as evidenced by Drake AND South Dakota in the top 20.

I'd go a step further: Drake-South Dakota was the best game of the young season so far. Frankly much higher quality than the Maryland-South Carolina game, which was extremely sloppy at times. I highly recommend that anyone who missed it treat themselves to the replay.

With such limited data available after only 2 weeks of play, each of us invariably relies to some degree on personal assumptions and biases to compare and rank teams, even when we make every effort to focus on "facts." The worth of Oklahoma, Minnesota and Boise State is open to debate. At this early stage, those wins only hold as much value as our assumptions and educated guesses will support. How do we know Oklahoma won't have another disastrous season? Or that Boise State will in fact be any better than last year?

Edit to add: And I'm saying this as someone who ranked South Dakota, Drake and Missouri State all in my top 20.

 

[triaddukefan]

I had Missouri State ranked, but edited it and removed them and replaced them with another school

 

[LoTrader]

It was very close in points. Both teams have shown vulnerability, in different ways. Perhaps one can debate whether going OT with Gonzaga is better or worse than limping to a 12 or 13 point win over Cal and Vanderbilt.

No debate in my mind. Gonzaga could beat half the teams in the top 10 on any given night. I don't think Cal could beat any team in the top 10 on any given night. If you watched the Gonzaga-Stanford game last night (I did), or, saw the Gonzaga-OSU game last year in NCAA Playoffs (I did), then you would have no question in your mind when comparing Gonzaga vs Cal.

 

[Plebe]

No debate in my mind. Gonzaga could beat half the teams in the top 10 on any given night. I don't think Cal could beat any team in the top 10 on any given night. If you watched the Gonzaga-Stanford game last night (I did), or, saw the Gonzaga-OSU game last year in NCAA Playoffs (I did), then you would have no question in your mind when comparing Gonzaga vs Cal.

Not a question of which team is better. More a question of how many points better is Gonzaga than Cal. Big difference.