Boise withdraws from MWC

[whaler11]

who cares... one of the biggest issues this league has faced is the lack of seperation. the fact that just about any team can beat another in this league on any give day isn't viewed as a plus. By adding a Memphis, or even a Temple if you will(I laugh at the notion that they are below us as they've been pretty competitive with Uconn for several years now), it only helps to create some seperation. The SEC has 4-5 solid teams each year. The rest are buoyed by the fact that they are in the SEC.
If having a school like Memphis gives us an easy win why are we complaining?

Because easy wins over Memphis don't change anyone's perception. The weak teams in the SEC are nowhere near as bad as the weak teams in the Big East.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm not going to as that is why they are in the league. They pressured Nova because they needed Temple for 2012.

The new football schools don't give a crap if the Catholics walk. Only UConn and Louisville do.

The point was that they were looking to add Temple 5 months before they knew they would have a scheduling problem, and Villanova said "no". I know it's hard for you to say "I might have been mistaken." No worries.

 

[emshorts]

Because easy wins over Memphis don't change anyone's perception. The weak teams in the SEC are nowhere near as bad as the weak teams in the Big East.

for whatever it's worth, look at these stats
http://louisvillesportslive.net/inside-the-numbersbig-east-vs-sec/#idc-container

 

[whaler11]

The point was that they were looking to add Temple 5 months before they knew they would have a scheduling problem, and Villanova said "no". I know it's hard for you to say "I might have been mistaken." No worries.

I'm fine to admit when wrong.

They didn't care enough to convince Nova until after Boise couldn't get free. If they didn't have the 2012 problem they wouldn't have needed to convince Nova. Once Syracuse and Pittsburgh left the Catholics lost two more programs who care about basketball and the new programs aren't going to give a damn about splitting. Nova's bargaining position and ability to block a school was decreased when the football schools were desperate for 2012 football games. Playing with 7 teams in 2012 would have been a huge issue for the football league in the court of public opinion even for the schools who haven't entered yet.

If they were dumb enough to want Temple before that... That's a separate issue.

 

[whaler11]

for whatever it's worth, look at these stats
http://louisvillesportslive.net/inside-the-numbersbig-east-vs-sec/#idc-container

So going into last year UConn, USF, Cinci and Louisville were 5-6 against the SEC.

Is that a big deal when Louisville plays Kentucky every year?

 

[emshorts]

So going into last year UConn, USF, Cinci and Louisville were 5-6 against the SEC.

Is that a big deal when Louisville plays Kentucky every year?

ok, lets take louisville record out & the BE is 8-4. i'm not naive to think we can dominate the hierarchy of the sec . the fact that the BE is 10-8, 3-1 in bowls games since 2005 is still ok in my book. hence my reply "for whatever it's worth"..

 

[whaler11]

ok, lets take louisville record out & the BE is 8-4. i'm not naive to think we can dominate the hierarchy of the sec . the fact that the BE is 10-8, 3-1 in bowls games since 2005 is still ok in my book. hence my reply "for whatever it's worth"..

Funny. Take out LV against Kentucky but leave in Pitt and WVU. That makes sense.

You've heard WVU isn't in the league anymore right? So clearly it's worth nothing.

Through 2010 SEC versus:
houston 58-28
Cinci. 39-7
Memphis 99-36
LV 21-10

 

[emshorts]

Funny. Take out LV against Kentucky but leave in Pitt and WVU. That makes sense.

You've heard WVU isn't in the league anymore right? So clearly it's worth nothing.

Through 2010 SEC versus:
houston 58-28
Cinci. 39-7
Memphis 99-36
LV 21-10

u made a comment about weak teams sec vs BE. i provided a link that since 2005, i repeat, since 2005 the BE in football has held it's own vs the sec. that's all. i don't know what the above #'s u typed are in reference to, but if they represent anything pre 2005 i don't care. the link i provided has nothing to do with houston & memphis unless i was in a coma when they were in the BE....

 

[whaler11]

u made a comment about weak teams sec vs BE. i provided a link that since 2005, i repeat, since 2005 the BE in football has held it's own vs the sec. that's all. i don't know what the above #'s u typed are in reference to, but if they represent anything pre 2005 i don't care. the link i provided has nothing to do with houston & memphis unless i was in a coma when they were in the BE....

The four teams that are still in the league are 5-6 against the SEC and that includes LV playing Kentucky every year.

UConn beat SC and I think USF beat Auburn. The rest of the wins are against Kentucky and Vandy.

The most important game saw Cinci get beat by Florida by 6,000 points.

Memphis and Temple are in the Big East going forward. WVU and Pitt are not. So why does it matter what WVU did in the last six years when it comes to the perception of the Big East going forward.

It's almost as stupid as including Miami in the BE BCS numbers when people kill the ACC's record.

 

[pj]

Joining the Big East upgrades programs. You can't take a team's record in the C-USA and use it to predict their performance in the Big East.

Just like joining the ACC downgrades programs. You wouldn't take Miami's or BC's record in the Big East and use it to project the performance after joining the ACC. That would be silly.

 

[whaler11]

Joining the Big East upgrades programs. You can't take a team's record in the C-USA and use it to predict their performance in the Big East.

Just like joining the ACC downgrades programs. You wouldn't take Miami's or BC's record in the Big East and use it to project the performance after joining the ACC. That would be silly.

Yeah BC is bad because they are in the ACC. Not because they had a really good coach and got rid of him because he interviewed for an NFL job. It's their conference affiliation - not the coach and AD.

I noticed you omitted VPI. Guess, it didn't happen to them.

 

[pj]

Memphis and Temple are in the Big East going forward. WVU and Pitt are not. So why does it matter what WVU did in the last six years when it comes to the perception of the Big East going forward.

It's almost as stupid as including Miami in the BE BCS numbers when people kill the ACC's record.

So we shouldn’t count team’s records in their prior conferences. Only their records after joining their new conference matter. Got it.

Through 2010 SEC versus:
houston 58-28
Cinci. 39-7
Memphis 99-36
LV 21-10

Wow, Houston went 3-25 versus the SEC pre-1965. http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/hou/sec.shtml We’d better count those games from 50 years ago, they really prove the Big East is inferior to the SEC.

What was your argument again?

 

[whaler11]

So we shouldn’t count team’s records in their prior conferences. Only their records after joining their new conference matter. Got it.


Wow, Houston went 3-25 versus the SEC pre-1965. http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/hou/sec.shtml We’d better count those games from 50 years ago, they really prove the Big East is inferior to the SEC.

What was your argument again?

Do you not get that the opinions that people have of schools and conferences are based on long history developed over decades?

So yes the fact that the SEC has been hammering Houston, Cinci, Memphis and others for years matters. On top of the obvious visual evidence that the SEC is better than the Big East - a sample of 11 games where there are two wins over teams not named Kentucky or Vanderbilt means nothing. Note Rutgers and Syracuse didn't even play a game against the SEC - I'll spoil it though, they weren't going to beat anyone with a pulse.

If you want to draw conclusions about the Big East going forward based on a handful of games that WVU won that's your business, but it's laughable to anyone in the country who isn't a Big East fan trying to fool themselves about this league.

Would you argue that the Big East is a far superior basketball conference than the SEC? Well that link says they are only 45-40 against the SEC since Louisville joined - I guess that means they are really really close! Let me guess that you don't really believe that because it's nonsense.

 

[UConnDan97]

So we shouldn’t count team’s records in their prior conferences. Only their records after joining their new conference matter. Got it.


Wow, Houston went 3-25 versus the SEC pre-1965. http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/hou/sec.shtml We’d better count those games from 50 years ago, they really prove the Big East is inferior to the SEC.

What was your argument again?

You have to understand that Whaler just loves to be a contrarian. Next up, he is going to pull out UConn's records against New Hampshire and Hofstra, because some of those games were in the 90's, and that should reflect who we are now...

 

[pj]

Whaler, all I'm saying is things change. Boise was nothing, now it's respected. Houston is winning respect. Definitely some programs benefit from a long history, and the Big East doesn't have any of them. But that doesn't mean the Big East has no future.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Yeah BC is bad because they are in the ACC. Not because they had a really good coach and got rid of him because he interviewed for an NFL job. It's their conference affiliation - not the coach and AD.

I noticed you omitted VPI. Guess, it didn't happen to them.

I get it... BC sucks because their coach left (like 10 years ago).
But we'll continually point out that Cincy lost a BCS game to Florida by 30+ points and never mention that Kelly screwed his team by announcing his departure essentially during the national anthem.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Do you not get that the opinions that people have of schools and conferences are based on long history developed over decades?

So yes the fact that the SEC has been hammering Houston, Cinci, Memphis and others for years matters. On top of the obvious visual evidence that the SEC is better than the Big East - a sample of 11 games where there are two wins over teams not named Kentucky or Vanderbilt means nothing. Note Rutgers and Syracuse didn't even play a game against the SEC - I'll spoil it though, they weren't going to beat anyone with a pulse.

If you want to draw conclusions about the Big East going forward based on a handful of games that WVU won that's your business, but it's laughable to anyone in the country who isn't a Big East fan trying to fool themselves about this league.

Would you argue that the Big East is a far superior basketball conference than the SEC? Well that link says they are only 45-40 against the SEC since Louisville joined - I guess that means they are really really close! Let me guess that you don't really believe that because it's nonsense.

We can spin this anyway we want. The fact is, the BE has gone head to head with the SEC and held it's own.
In a system that is so skewed to provide the SEC with every advantage imagineable the fact that the BE played even is an accomplishment.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Whaler, all I'm saying is things change. Boise was nothing, now it's respected. Houston is winning respect. Definitely some programs benefit from a long history, and the Big East doesn't have any of them. But that doesn't mean the Big East has no future.

There is one. Rutgers has a pretty long history.

 

[zls44]

There is one. Rutgers has a pretty long history.

He said benefits.

 

[Marty Jackson]

He said benefits.

On the surface, I would say Rutgers benefits from their long history... It's like going to a bar with a fake id.

It get's them to the door of the 'schools with a long history and rich tradition' club.
Unfortunately if anyone is checking id's or asking questions at the door, they're exposed and not getting in.

 

[whaler11]

You have to understand that Whaler just loves to be a contrarian. Next up, he is going to pull out UConn's records against New Hampshire and Hofstra, because some of those games were in the 90's, and that should reflect who we are now...

Maybe a contrarian compared to a half dozen posters on this website. The rest of the country mock Memphis and Temple and the league in general.

EDSBS had a great line about Temple, I won't get it right but:

Boise was flipping a quarter to help decide leaving Mountain West... When they realized that was more than Temple's annual football budget.

 

[UConnDan97]

Maybe a contrarian compared to a half dozen posters on this website. The rest of the country mock Memphis and Temple and the league in general.

EDSBS had a great line about Temple, I won't get it right but:

Boise was flipping a quarter to help decide leaving Mountain West... When they realized that was more than Temple's annual football budget.

My comment about you being a contrarian was in regards to you quoting historical records for the SEC versus new Big East members as a way to show that we are drastically inferior. Nobody on this board or anywhere else will argue that we are as good as the SEC, but the use of records that date back to the 60's and 70's in order to try to "one-up" another poster's point seemed a bit much.

That only counts if you will allow us to revisit Houston and SMU ala the late 70's and early 80's, where they were winning national championships and battling against ND in the Cotton Bowl, right?

 

[whaler11]

My comment about you being a contrarian was in regards to you quoting historical records for the SEC versus new Big East members as a way to show that we are drastically inferior. Nobody on this board or anywhere else will argue that we are as good as the SEC, but the use of records that date back to the 60's and 70's in order to try to "one-up" another poster's point seemed a bit much.

That only counts if you will allow us to revisit Houston and SMU ala the late 70's and early 80's, where they were winning national championships and battling against ND in the Cotton Bowl, right?

Im sorry. Im just trying to explain why the country looks down on the league.
There might be a small sample where the current Big East teams went 5-6 against mostly crappy SEC teams. The country remembers when the best Big East team in the decade... got beat 800-4 by an unmotivated Florida team.

You keep trying to pretend that I'm lumping SMU and Houston in with Temple and Memphis. Boise, Houston and SMU were the three best available programs since BYU wasn't willing to join the league. SDSU is a decent addition when considering Boise's wishes. Navy has prestige and while I'm not sure they can compete long term or be happy in a league I fully welcome them.

Why wasn't it enough to take those programs. Why not skim the top of the pool and take those four and maybe UCF. Why dip into the muck and take Memphis and Temple?

Some of the moves were good and some were bad? Why do you feel the need to defend bad moves so strongly?

 

[UConnDan97]

Im sorry. Im just trying to explain why the country looks down on the league.
There might be a small sample where the current Big East teams went 5-6 against mostly crappy SEC teams. The country remembers when the best Big East team in the decade... got beat 800-4 by an unmotivated Florida team.

You keep trying to pretend that I'm lumping SMU and Houston in with Temple and Memphis. Boise, Houston and SMU were the three best available programs since BYU wasn't willing to join the league. SDSU is a decent addition when considering Boise's wishes. Navy has prestige and while I'm not sure they can compete long term or be happy in a league I fully welcome them.

Why wasn't it enough to take those programs. Why not skim the top of the pool and take those four and maybe UCF. Why dip into the muck and take Memphis and Temple?

Some of the moves were good and some were bad? Why do you feel the need to defend bad moves so strongly?

I'm not trying to pretend that you are doing anything. The stats you provided are below, and there is no mention of Temple and a definite mention of Houston, Cincy, and the Ville:

"Through 2010 SEC versus:
houston 58-28
Cinci. 39-7
Memphis 99-36
LV 21-10"

Look, I understand what you're getting at. I know that most people outside of the league think of the times that Florida smoked Cincy in a BCS game, rather than to talk about the fact that WVU beat Georgia in the BCS (or Boise beating Georgia, if you don't want us to have credit for the WVU wins....or the Miami BCS wins against the SEC as a Big East member). They won't remember the curb-stomp that UConn put on South Carolina, because unfortunately we lost to Vandy two years later.

The toughest thing that the Big East has always had to overcome is the perception. In order to overcome perception, we don't just need to get to a 50/50 proposition. Unfortunately, and unfairly, we have to win almost every time we see them, so that we make sure they remember who we are...

 

[whaler11]

I'm not trying to pretend that you are doing anything. The stats you provided are below, and there is no mention of Temple and a definite mention of Houston, Cincy, and the Ville:

"Through 2010 SEC versus:
houston 58-28
Cinci. 39-7
Memphis 99-36
LV 21-10"

Look, I understand what you're getting at. I know that most people outside of the league think of the times that Florida smoked Cincy in a BCS game, rather than to talk about the fact that WVU beat Georgia in the BCS (or Boise beating Georgia, if you don't want us to have credit for the WVU wins....or the Miami BCS wins against the SEC as a Big East member). They won't remember the curb-stomp that UConn put on South Carolina, because unfortunately we lost to Vandy two years later.

The toughest thing that the Big East has always had to overcome is the perception. In order to overcome perception, we don't just need to get to a 50/50 proposition. Unfortunately, and unfairly, we have to win almost every time we see them, so that we make sure they remember who we are...

Yeah it's not fair. When UConn hammers South Carolina the masses excuse it as USC wasn't motivated because it was Birmingham.

You are a smart guy with good opinions. Please don't tell me you think the Big East can lay claim to wins by teams that aren't in the league going forward.

 

[UConnDan97]

Yeah it's not fair. When UConn hammers South Carolina the masses excuse it as USC wasn't motivated because it was Birmingham.

You are a smart guy with good opinions. Please don't tell me you think the Big East can lay claim to wins by teams that aren't in the league going forward.

Thanks for the compliment. I don't believe that we can take any credit whatsoever now for wins that Miami achieved under the Big East banner. I also think that we can only take marginal credit for the WVU wins (they haven't played a down under the Big12 banner and all their kids were recruited under the Big East name). The marginal credit that we draw from WVU will fade away pretty fast.

Still, if we must relinquish those victories, it means that we can begin to take credit for Boise's (who hasn't played a down yet for the Big East). So when we look back at their wins against Georgia, Va Tech, etc., we can feel proud I guess that the Big East continues to have some good moments in history against "the big boys".

As for South Carolina not being up for the game because it was in Birmingham; that may be their excuse, but anyone who saw the game knows differently and also knows that a 20-7 scoreline didn't do UConn's curb-stomping justice!