Boise withdraws from MWC

[businesslawyer]

Out of curiosity (serious question, not being a wise ass) if we didn't get Temple for Big East Football 2012, what would have happened? Could we have played 6 league games and scheduled another FCS opponent? Are 7 league members below the BCS threshold. I'm not sure of any of these answers.

The way I look at it and this has more or less been said by other Boneyarders but alas:

1) Conference Championship game value
2) Memphis and Temple hoop value, helps off set their football being below median value of current football members.
3) Guess with #2, but keeping the BE Championship in MSG an attractive commodity.

Ultimately, Temple was a necessity and Memphis was a hoops move that made the football league 12 teams (though I suppose we could have waited another couple years for Navy).

It's not ideal at all, but I'm not sure what any of the alternatives were. Maybe ponying up the cash for Boise State to join this year for football?

By all reports, nothing would have happened if we went one year with seven members.

 

[UConnDan97]

Out of curiosity (serious question, not being a wise ass) if we didn't get Temple for Big East Football 2012, what would have happened? Could we have played 6 league games and scheduled another FCS opponent? Are 7 league members below the BCS threshold. I'm not sure of any of these answers.

The way I look at it and this has more or less been said by other Boneyarders but alas:

1) Conference Championship game value
2) Memphis and Temple hoop value, helps off set their football being below median value of current football members.
3) Guess with #2, but keeping the BE Championship in MSG an attractive commodity.

Ultimately, Temple was a necessity and Memphis was a hoops move that made the football league 12 teams (though I suppose we could have waited another couple years for Navy).

It's not ideal at all, but I'm not sure what any of the alternatives were. Maybe ponying up the cash for Boise State to join this year for football?

Based on what I had heard through multiple sources, if Temple wasn't added, the Big East was completely prepared to play a season with 7 teams. It likely would have been bad for our image, since the plan was to have Rutgers and Syracuse play a home-and-home, and for everyone else to throw on a 1-AA if they could. But the league could have still existed like that until 2013 when all the other additions came on board.

That is one of the various facts that leads me to believe that the Big East did sincerely think that it was a good idea to add Temple, and I think that it took a catastrophic situation for Villanova to finally acquiesce (that, and a promise of multiple millions of dollars to examine the upgrade of Villanova's 1-AA football team!):

http://articles.philly.com/2012-03-07/news/31132450_1_villanova-vince-nicastro-big-east

 

[UConnDan97]

I should add to my previous comment that, if the Big East did not believe that Temple was worth it in the end, they would not have promised Villanova millions in order to get them. They would have simply played the season out, or gone after another team (ECU?). For the record, I like the Temple addition for a few reasons. The Memphis addition? Well, I'm just going to have to take that one on faith...

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I should add to my previous comment that, if the Big East did not believe that Temple was worth it in the end, they would not have promised Villanova millions in order to get them. They would have simply played the season out, or gone after another team (ECU?). For the record, I like the Temple addition for a few reasons. The Memphis addition? Well, I'm just going to have to take that one on faith...

Thanks for the info in the posts Dan. If there was no repercussion for playing a season with 7 league members then IMO adding Temple was a mistake and further compounded by adding Memphis.

If we could have played a season with 7 teams I think this would have been an ideal scenario.

Big East Football: UConn, Rutgers, Cincy, Louisville, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Boise State, San Diego State, Navy, Air Force (12 teams)

Big East Basketball: UConn, Rutgers, Cincy, Louisville, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, ND, Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's, Marquette, PC, SH, Depaul (16 teams). 18 league games and cater the regular season to feature all made for tv matchups, i.e. UConn vs. Georgetown, Villanova vs. Louisville. It would have made the basketball schedule somewhat 'unfair' but in the long run been worthwhile.

Best part about this is we don't have to be in a league with Memphis or Temple!

 

[whaler11]

It would only be funny if they were the same people...

There is enough overlap. The Big East's recent leadership gets slaughtered on this board.

It certainly wasn't great but there has never been a single strategy posted that was realistic that would have made a difference. Recruit Kansas and the other Big XII leftovers? Funny.

The criticism isn't even consistent. Complain that the Big East has ignored football but then defend the addition of Memphis.

Providence gets killed here with 20-20 vision in the rear view mirror. The additions of Temple and Memphis are idiotic but it's waved away with the premise that some expert told them to add those horrific schools and programs.

On what planet would an expert claim that adding Memphis to a huge league would raise the per team television rake.

There was no a single strand of thought or logic in adding Temple and Memphis. Temple fills out a schedule and Memphis shut Pitino up for a few months. If anyone wants to pretend that some television visionary convinced the league that they are more valuable with two of the least valuable football programs in college football history - Sweet Jesus it's absurd on every level.

 

[whaler11]

What the hell could have happened. Everyone knew the BCS was dead already - were they going to find a way to keep them out of a structure that doesn't exist going forward?

 

[UConnDan97]

There is enough overlap. The Big East's recent leadership gets slaughtered on this board.

It certainly wasn't great but there has never been a single strategy posted that was realistic that would have made a difference. Recruit Kansas and the other Big XII leftovers? Funny.

The criticism isn't even consistent. Complain that the Big East has ignored football but then defend the addition of Memphis.

Providence gets killed here with 20-20 vision in the rear view mirror. The additions of Temple and Memphis are idiotic but it's waved away with the premise that some expert told them to add those horrific schools and programs.

On what Fecunditying planet would an expert claim that adding Memphis to a huge league would raise the per team television rake.

There was no a single strand of thought or logic in adding Temple and Memphis. Temple fills out a schedule and Memphis shut Pitino up for a few months. If anyone wants to pretend that some television visionary convinced the league that they are more valuable with two of the least valuable football programs in college football history - Sweet Jesus it's absurd on every level.

Well I just have a couple of follow up points, then:

1) I'M someone who believes that the moves they made were absolutely predicated on television contract projections. Again, if that isn't at least a reasonable assumption (as opposed to your "absurd on every level"), then why would the Big East promise millions in aid to Villanova in order to do it?

2) As for the overlap of people defending the Temple / Memphis additions and also slaughtered the Big East leadership in the past, can you at least provide me with an example of a Boneyarder that has done both? It certainly wasn't me...

 

[whaler11]

Well I just have a couple of follow up points, then:

1) I'M someone who believes that the moves they made were absolutely predicated on television contract projections. Again, if that isn't at least a reasonable assumption (as opposed to your "absurd on every level"), then why would the Big East promise millions in aid to Villanova in order to do it?

2) As for the overlap of people defending the Temple / Memphis additions and also slaughtered the Big East leadership in the past, can you at least provide me with an example of a Boneyarder that has done both? It certainly wasn't me...

1. Ok I guess. It seems completely absurd to me at first blush and when you consider the evidence. If they were such valuable properties why didn't Temple get an invite until after it was clear Boise couldn't fill out the 2012 schedule? Why weren't they part of the original schedule. What the hell has changed since 2003 for Temple?

If Memphis was so valuable why are they 13? I imagine that you'll admit that 13 is an awfully stupid number for a league. And if the plan is for a number higher than 13 why were they added before 14 or 15 or 16, instead of with other new schools.


2. Not really a midnight project but I'll find some soon.

 

[UConnDan97]

Compared to what? When Temple lost 70 out of 80 games in the Big East last time? When Memphis went like 3-30 the past few years.

Sure you can't get worse so upticks.

For all the glowing reports of Temple'sThe next year, when he was 25, he returned to Czarnków, Poland, for a family visit. There he met a 19-year-old named Barbara, a “naive, simple, gentle” woman, he says, the daughter of a blacksmith who had rented rooms from one of Wojnowski’s aunts. On a walk together down a hillside, he reached out to squeeze her hand. He had never had a girlfriend, and he describes his attraction as equal parts impulsive and desperate. He married her in a Catholic church two days before his monthlong stay was up. The next year, she joined him in an apartment he’d found in Mount Rainier in Prince George’s County.

rebirth. Here is the number of wins they have over MAC teams who ended the season with winning records since they joined the league: 0

2009: 9-4 (Bowl loss to UCLA)
2010: 8-4
2011: 9-4 (Bowl win against Wyoming)

Yeah, that's the definition of an uptick, especially since you point out that they lost 70 out of 80 games in the Big East before they were kicked out.

I understand that you don't like the move, Whaler, but man, sometimes your speakers go to 11, you know what I mean?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

i kind of get Temple. Memphis is a mystery to me.

 

[UConnDan97]

1. Ok I guess. It seems completely absurd to me at first blush and when you consider the evidence. If they were such valuable properties why didn't Temple get an invite until after it was clear Boise couldn't fill out the 2012 schedule? Why weren't they part of the original schedule. What the hell has changed since 2003 for Temple?

What part of my earlier post, where I said that it took a catastrophic situation for Villanova to finally cave in (that, and the millions of dollars), did you not agree with or understand?? THAT'S why they weren't invited until the 11th hour! Simple as that. We had an internal ACC-BC-UConn thing going on, and many knew about it. No big mystery there...

 

[whaler11]

2009: 9-4 (Bowl loss to UCLA)
2010: 8-4
2011: 9-4 (Bowl win against Wyoming)

Yeah, that's the definition of an uptick, especially since you point out that they lost 70 out of 80 games in the Big East before they were kicked out.

I understand that you don't like the move, Whaler, but man, sometimes your speakers go to 11, you know what I mean?

Wins over MAC teams with winning records. None. Do you not realize how bad that frigging league is?

Note they are such an afterthought they won 8 games and didn't get a bowl bid. That happens all the time.....

 

[whaler11]

What part of my earlier post, where I said that it took a catastrophic situation for Villanova to finally cave in (that, and the millions of dollars), did you not agree with or understand?? THAT'S why they weren't invited until the 11th hour! Simple as that. We had an internal ACC-BC-UConn thing going on, and many knew about it. No big mystery there...

Oh you think that the other Big East schools saw value in Temple but Villanova stood in their way? I guess that could be true but that only makes me want to thank Villanova.

You do see that no one felt the need to buy Nova off until they needed a team that was available though right? Why would Villanova give a damn about the league's football schedules? Why would they allow Temple to creep into their basketball territory for a few million research something they don't want to do?

 

[UConnDan97]

Wins over MAC teams with winning records. None. Do you not realize how bad that frigging league is?

Note they are such an afterthought they won 8 games and didn't get a bowl bid. That happens all the time.....

Actually, it's happened to us! Settle down, dude. Did you forget about 2003 when we went 9-3 (after pasting WF), and we didn't have a bowl game either??

 

[whaler11]

Actually, it's happened to us! Settle down, dude. Did you forget about 2003 when we went 9-3 (after pasting WF), and we didn't have a bowl game either??

Funny I was going to say it probably hasn't happened since then but it's a bit different for an independent at a time when there were fewer bowls.

 

[UConnDan97]

You do see that no one felt the need to buy Nova off until they needed a team that was available though right?

You have to start to look at the facts, and then you will have the answers to all of your questions:

Feb. 15 - West Virginia settles with BE and will leave Big East
Mar. 7 - Temple is announced as a new member to the Big East, after a deal is struck with them and Villanova

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...-join-big-12-july-big-east-lawsuit-settlement

That is the catastrophic change that I am talking about. The Big East essentially tells Villanova "this must be done to save the conference" and Nova says, "so long as you throw me some money."

 

[UConnDan97]

Funny I was going to say it probably hasn't happened since then but it's a bit different for an independent at a time when there were fewer bowls.

Yeah, that's why, because there were fewer bowls.

 

[whaler11]

Yeah, that's why, because there were fewer bowls.

Well there were. I believe in 2010 when Temple stayed home they were the only bowl eligible team who didn't find a game. My memory might be failing me but I believe that is the case.

 

[whaler11]

You have to start to look at the facts, and then you will have the answers to all of your questions:

Feb. 15 - West Virginia settles with BE and will leave Big East
Mar. 7 - Temple is announced as a new member to the Big East, after a deal is struck with them and Villanova

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...-join-big-12-july-big-east-lawsuit-settlement

That is the catastrophic change that I am talking about. The Big East essentially tells Villanova "this must be done to save the conference" and Nova says, "so long as you throw me some money."

Doesn't that mean you agree? That they added Temple to fill the schedule?

 

[UConnDan97]

Well there were. I believe in 2010 when Temple stayed home they were the only bowl eligible team who didn't find a game. My memory might be failing me but I believe that is the case.

Well then do me a favor and tell me how many 9-win teams in 1-A have been left out of a bowl and then I will say "mea culpa." The problem is not that there were not enough bowls. The problem is that the bowls didn't think much of us and they didn't think much of Temple in regards to whether we were going to be able to sell more than 5 tickets. The International Bowl changed that perception for us. I expect that Temple's bowl game against WYO is going to change that image for them too.

 

[UConnDan97]

Doesn't that mean you agree? That they added Temple to fill the schedule?

Oh dear Jesus, help me. I have said in about 6 posts in this thread already that the Big East would not have agreed to pay Villanova millions of dollars if they did not believe that Temple was worth it! THEY WOULD HAVE GRABBED SOMEONE ELSE OR NOONE AT ALL!! Do you get that?? The catastrophic event that I keep referring to is what finally made VILLANOVA AGREE, NOT THE BIG EAST!

 

[whaler11]

By the way bowl games by year


2003: 28
2011: 35


Do you think UConn's 2003 team would have been passed up by another 14 teams? So maybe the number of bowls mattered?

 

[UConnDan97]

By the way bowl games by year


2003: 28
2011: 35


Do you think UConn's 2003 team would have been passed up by another 14 teams? So maybe the number of bowls mattered?

Again, show me another 9-win team that didn't make one when there were 28 bowls, and I told you that I would concede the point. I'm guessing you will have great difficulty finding one...

 

[whaler11]

Oh dear Jesus, help me. I have said in about 6 posts in this thread already that the Big East would not have agreed to pay Villanova millions of dollars if they did not believe that Temple was worth it! THEY WOULD HAVE GRABBED SOMEONE ELSE OR NOONE AT ALL!! Do you get that?? The catastrophic event that I keep referring to is what finally made VILLANOVA AGREE, NOT THE BIG EAST!

Ok well thats our disagreement. I don't think the Big East gave a damn about Temple because they didn't make that move until it was clear Boise couldn't jump early. I believe they took Temple to fill out the schedule in 2012.

You can believe that Villanova took the high road. I believe they couldn't block it and they got a few million to keep their fans quiet as it was earmarked to research and upgrade their fans want but the school doesn't.

 

[whaler11]

Again, show me another 9-win team that didn't make one when there were 28 bowls, and I told you that I would concede the point. I'm guessing you will have great difficulty finding one...

That is because there weren't any independents that won 9 games that aren't Navy or Notre Dame.

Are you going to argue that an independent 9 win UConn team would have been left out in 2010 or 2011? Do you not see a difference between 56 and 70 bowl teams? The frigging bowls went and got a waiver for a 6-7 team this year. Most seasons now there are
scenarios the last week where not enough teams qualify. That doesn't happen with 56 teams.