OT: Bill Belichick Retiring after season

[TheHorde]

Cassell also missed the playoffs. How many times did Brady miss the playoffs all those years?

Missed it on a tiebreaker after going 11-5. But certainly it showed just how valuable TB12 was.

 

[upstater]

The details I could find said his extension prior to the 2023 season was "lucrative" and "long term". Estimates in the 17m-25m a year range.

I don't think he'll be "fired" and I don't see him giving up any money. So I guess it's up to what "long term" means as far as how much the Pats are giving up.

It's one more year. That's it

 

[upstater]

Better receivers. Alligator arms and stone hands.

I really think Mac is that bad.

As for Brissett and Garoppolo, the WRs were Edelman, Hogan and Amendola (Gronk was hurt). Those 3 are good WRs, but not All-Pros.

 

[upstater]

Cassell had 21 TDs and 11 INTs and had Randy Moss and Wes Welker to throw to. Moss had 11 of those TDs. So I think you're reaching to say it was the schemes.

I don't believe it was the schemes that made Brady great. I'm a Brady fan.
The comment was made that there was no success with the schemes outside of Brady.
These are two entirely different things.

 

[upstater]

That's a bad take. How often was 11-5 not good enough?

They actually went 10-6 with Brady the next year.

What people miss about this period is that the Patriots were transitioning and rebuilding. But because of Brady, they didn't suffer. They still had decent records.

But they did lose Faulk, Moss, Watson, Light, Ty Warren, Vrabel, Colvin, Rodney Harrison, Samuel, etc. They had a great rebuild on the fly and only missed 3 years of making it to the championship game

 

[npignatjr]

Cleveland was trending up, made the playoffs, even beat Parcells in New England. The whole team disintegrated after Modell announced he was moving them to Baltimore in the middle of the night.

The Patriots were 6-10 in 1995, then Belichick arrives and takes over the defense, and they go to the Super Bowl the very next year.

He moves on to take over the Jets' defense, they were just abysmal, and by the second year, they are in the AFCCG.

In that first year, Brady was not the guy he became later on. Look at the postseason. A lot of the Patriot points came off turnovers and special teams, the defense shut down the Greatest Show on turf. Heck, even in the championship game, the defense was largely credited with the win, and Brady wasn't even the QB for that game. It was Bledsoe.

I give Brady all the credit for the following years, even though the 2003 and 2004 defense was lights out.

He was key in the Seattle Super Bowl.

In the last one against the Rams, they gave up 3 points. I just checked to see where those Rams were. They scored the 11th most points in NFL history at the time. The Patriots D gave up 3 points.

This doesn't really matter a great deal to me since I'm a huge Brady fan, but IF I had to split the Super Bowl credit between them, I'd say Brady is responsible for 4 wins, Belichick for 2 wins.

People also need to realize what happened to the Patriots in 2020. They unwound the team, they took huge deadcap hits from the previous seasons, and 13 key starters left the team, mostly because they were old and at the end of their careers. Look at all the players who are gone: Edelman, Gronk, Hightower, McCourty, Chung, Gilmore, James White, Van Noy, Collins, Flowers, Thuney, Mason, Cannon, Harmon, the good JC Jackson, Gostkowski, Elandon Roberts. You can't lose this many veterans, many of them Pro Bowlers, and continue winning.

They did a total reset, a total rebuild. The only player who was mistakenly let go out of all of these is Thuney. The rest are out of football.

It's a brand new team, and it's mostly been rebuilt the proper way. They need a decent QB, not an all-time great HOFer or even an All-Pro.

Gilmore? Still playing great with Dallas. McCourty didn't leave then, either did White.

 

[Deepster]

I don't believe it was the schemes that made Brady great. I'm a Brady fan.
The comment was made that there was no success with the schemes outside of Brady.
These are two entirely different things.

And I’m saying Cassels year was not successful because of schemes. It was because he had Randy Moss to throw to.

 

[B1GEast]

To be fair, the article says nothing about Belichick retiring. That was an assumption by the OP.

I thought for sure he'd be leaving on his terms.

 

[87Xfer]

I thought for sure he'd be leaving on his terms.

That could be the case, but why'd you user the word "retire"?

 

[willie99]

He's actually preparing for KC. That's all we really know

Until Kraft or Belichick reveal something, it's all poppycock

 

[uconnfan68]

I really think Mac is that bad.

As for Brissett and Garoppolo, the WRs were Edelman, Hogan and Amendola (Gronk was hurt). Those 3 are good WRs, but not All-Pros.

He’s regressed from year one for sure. Some head scratching throws this year.

 

[Chief00]

Counterpoint: it's not a real job, as he has said a thousand times. Other than fishing off Nantucket I'm not sure there is anything on earth he likes as much as football.

And his ex long term girl friend wants his home there.

 

[B1GEast]

That could be the case, but why'd you user the word "retire"?

Did you read what I wrote? I honestly thought he earned that right. I read the article and assumed he was walking away.

 

[HooperScooper]

Did you read what I wrote? I honestly thought he earned that right. I read the article and assumed he was walking away.

 

[Deepster]

Well. Didn’t you make some assumptions on Mac Jones, pal?

 

[uconngb]

As underwhelming as they are, they have a lot of really good players. They are missing a QB, a WR and a LT. Those are 3 prime positions difficult to find guys in, but that explains their record.

People that think this team is talentless might not realize the investment they've made in the OL/TEs outside of tackle, and they've found/invested in a bunch of 2nd/3rd type WRs.

But on the defensive side they are young, a lot of talent. Barmore, Gonzalez, Dugger, Jennings, Peppers, Marcus Jones, Keion White; and then they have a bunch of solid midcareer guys like Tavai, Godchaux, Bentley, Jon Jones, Mills and Phillips.

I’m as big a Pats fan as they come but you can’t just gloss over how weak they are at the 3 most significant positions in the game today. It’s GM malpractice that they ate in the position they ate in at QB, WR and left tackle. BB the GM should have been fired long ago.

 

[uconngb]

He was smart enough to draft Brady when no one else would or he just got lucky.

Smart enough to draft the guy at #199?? You are joking right??

 

[upstater]

Gilmore? Still playing great with Dallas. McCourty didn't leave then, either did White.

??? I wrote since then.

For the next 2 seasons, White had a grand total of 45 carries.

These players were not factors.

You're right about Gilmore, but playing great???

 

[upstater]

I’m as big a Pats fan as they come but you can’t just gloss over how weak they are at the 3 most significant positions in the game today. It’s GM malpractice that they ate in the position they ate in at QB, WR and left tackle. BB the GM should have been fired long ago.

I disagree.

If you rewound 2021, you'd be dumb not to take Mac Jones. It was the right pick. The fact that he sucks is on Mac. The Patriots could actually blow it again with a QB. Consider, of the last 23 1st round QBs in the last several years, 16 of them are busts, 6 of them are big hits, and we don't know what Jordan Love is yet. Chances are, the next QB will be a bust.

Tackles and WR are difficult positions to stock, but if you look at the guys who got big contracts last year like Orlando Brown and McGlinchey, they've turned into busts. Their teams owe them $80m. That's a bad position to be in. You have to draft WRs and tackles, you can't take them in the free agent market. Because they don't exist there. God knows the Patriots have tried since they signed several WRs and TEs to lucrative contracts.

I'm personally OK with drafting Gonzalez over a WR like Smith-Njigba or Quentin Johnston, or drafting Keion White over a WR like Jayden Reed, Marvin Mims or Rashee Rice. You grab the huge talents, best player available, because that's how you become a contender. Filling needs is just short term thinking. They do need those 3 positions, for sure. But you can see why they are weak there.

 

[87Xfer]

I’m as big a Pats fan as they come but you can’t just gloss over how weak they are at the 3 most significant positions in the game today. It’s GM malpractice that they ate in the position they ate in at QB, WR and left tackle. BB the GM should have been fired long ago.

That's a lot of eating. Maybe that's why they're so slow.

 

[upstater]

And I’m saying Cassels year was not successful because of schemes. It was because he had Randy Moss to throw to.

??
I'm not making an argument about schemes because I never believed that was the reason for Brady's success. I'm saying that 3 different Patriot QBs won at the same clip under Belichick that Brady did. Granted, we only have a season and a quarter as a sample, but that's 20 games. As for Randy, his numbers were down with Cassell, as expected. Cassell was a dink and dunker. Randy's TD were cut in half and he caught 60 passes.

 

[HooperScooper]

Well. Didn’t you make some assumptions on Mac Jones, pal?

I made a prediction, not an assumption, buddy. Not looking good as of right now. But Zach Wilson hasn't exactly established himself as an NFL QB yet either. Good game by him this past week. Let's see if he can build on that and be more consistent and not get benched again. We will revisit this after next season as we said we would. It ain't over until it's over. I will admit I was wrong if that's the case in 13 months. Which is something you can never seem to do because of your Napoleon complex.

 

[uconngb]

I disagree.

If you rewound 2021, you'd be dumb not to take Mac Jones. It was the right pick. The fact that he sucks is on Mac. The Patriots could actually blow it again with a QB. Consider, of the last 23 1st round QBs in the last several years, 16 of them are busts, 6 of them are big hits, and we don't know what Jordan Love is yet. Chances are, the next QB will be a bust.

Tackles and WR are difficult positions to stock, but if you look at the guys who got big contracts last year like Orlando Brown and McGlinchey, they've turned into busts. Their teams owe them $80m. That's a bad position to be in. You have to draft WRs and tackles, you can't take them in the free agent market. Because they don't exist there. God knows the Patriots have tried since they signed several WRs and TEs to lucrative contracts.

I'm personally OK with drafting Gonzalez over a WR like Smith-Njigba or Quentin Johnston, or drafting Keion White over a WR like Jayden Reed, Marvin Mims or Rashee Rice. You grab the huge talents, best player available, because that's how you become a contender. Filling needs is just short term thinking. They do need those 3 positions, for sure. But you can see why they are weak there.

Nakeel Harry was a disaster of a pick on draft day and still today. He’s out out of football while 3 guys taken soon after him ate ALL studs. BB couldn’t use a high draft pick on the right WR if his life depended on it.

Mac was an “eh” pick. Most scouts knew he didn’t have the arm but he seemed to have the smarts. That clearly has not panned out.

But if you don’t think it’s obvious that BB the GM has been a train wreck, you just haven’t been paying attention. His drafts routinely suck. And when he finally had money to spend, look where he blew it. Judon has worked out but other than that: Henry, Jonnu, Agholar..,,,,,yuck

And the O line has just been a mess. He’s an awful GM. Not just bad…,,awful

 

[npignatjr]

??? I wrote since then.

For the next 2 seasons, White had a grand total of 45 carries.

These players were not factors.

You're right about Gilmore, but playing great???

Where in here is since then?
"Cleveland was trending up, made the playoffs, even beat Parcells in New England. The whole team disintegrated after Modell announced he was moving them to Baltimore in the middle of the night.

The Patriots were 6-10 in 1995, then Belichick arrives and takes over the defense, and they go to the Super Bowl the very next year.

He moves on to take over the Jets' defense, they were just abysmal, and by the second year, they are in the AFCCG.

In that first year, Brady was not the guy he became later on. Look at the postseason. A lot of the Patriot points came off turnovers and special teams, the defense shut down the Greatest Show on turf. Heck, even in the championship game, the defense was largely credited with the win, and Brady wasn't even the QB for that game. It was Bledsoe.

I give Brady all the credit for the following years, even though the 2003 and 2004 defense was lights out.

He was key in the Seattle Super Bowl.

In the last one against the Rams, they gave up 3 points. I just checked to see where those Rams were. They scored the 11th most points in NFL history at the time. The Patriots D gave up 3 points.

This doesn't really matter a great deal to me since I'm a huge Brady fan, but IF I had to split the Super Bowl credit between them, I'd say Brady is responsible for 4 wins, Belichick for 2 wins.

People also need to realize what happened to the Patriots in 2020. They unwound the team, they took huge deadcap hits from the previous seasons, and 13 key starters left the team, mostly because they were old and at the end of their careers. Look at all the players who are gone: Edelman, Gronk, Hightower, McCourty, Chung, Gilmore, James White, Van Noy, Collins, Flowers, Thuney, Mason, Cannon, Harmon, the good JC Jackson, Gostkowski, Elandon Roberts. You can't lose this many veterans, many of them Pro Bowlers, and continue winning.

They did a total reset, a total rebuild. The only player who was mistakenly let go out of all of these is Thuney. The rest are out of football.

It's a brand new team, and it's mostly been rebuilt the proper way. They need a decent QB, not an all-time great HOFer or even an All-Pro."


But they didn't leave then White got injured second year, Devon McCourty retired after last season. Gilmore has been great, just shutdown AJ Brown of the Eagles. By the way I'm mostly in agreement with you, Mac has regressed after McDaniel left and the receivers are possibly the worst as a group if any NFL team I have seen this year.

 

[87Xfer]

Nakeel Harry was a disaster of a pick on draft day and still today. He’s out out of football while 3 guys taken soon after him ate ALL studs. BB couldn’t use a high draft pick on the right WR if his life depended on it.

Mac was an “eh” pick. Most scouts knew he didn’t have the arm but he seemed to have the smarts. That clearly has not panned out.

But if you don’t think it’s obvious that BB the GM has been a train wreck, you just haven’t been paying attention. His drafts routinely suck. And when he finally had money to spend, look where he blew it. Judon has worked out but other than that: Henry, Jonnu, Agholar..,,,,,yuck

And the O line has just been a mess. He’s an awful GM. Not just bad…,,awful

N'Keal, but carry on. (gotta love dudes who sit at the keyboard and pass judgement on a guy's career, but can't bother to spell his name correctly)

 

[upstater]

Where in here is since then?

Look at all the players who are gone: Edelman, Gronk, Hightower, McCourty, Chung, Gilmore, James White, Van Noy, Collins, Flowers, Thuney, Mason, Cannon, Harmon, the good JC Jackson, Gostkowski, Elandon Roberts. You can't lose this many veterans, many of them Pro Bowlers, and continue winning.

Just this part: Look at all the players who are gone

I wasn't saying they left immediately, just that they had all left. Effectively, Mac only played with McCourty

 

[upstater]

Nakeel Harry was a disaster of a pick on draft day and still today. He’s out out of football while 3 guys taken soon after him ate ALL studs. BB couldn’t use a high draft pick on the right WR if his life depended on it.

Mac was an “eh” pick. Most scouts knew he didn’t have the arm but he seemed to have the smarts. That clearly has not panned out.

But if you don’t think it’s obvious that BB the GM has been a train wreck, you just haven’t been paying attention. His drafts routinely suck. And when he finally had money to spend, look where he blew it. Judon has worked out but other than that: Henry, Jonnu, Agholar..,,,,,yuck

And the O line has just been a mess. He’s an awful GM. Not just bad…,,awful

But you're leaving out the 4 guys taken after Harry and before Metcalf who busted. It's very easy to go through the draft and say, in hindsight, oh we should've taken him! But there are so many misses in between.

Just look at the last couple of years with JSN, Johnston, Treylon Burks, etc. It's very easy to miss.

The Patriots problem is that they don't even take WRs. Id like to see them use more draft picks because they are going to bust. Seriously, in the 10+ years between Dobson and Tyquan, the Patriots only used 1 draft pick on a WR in the first 3 rounds. That is absurd.

OLine is good, look at the running holes they are blowing open when the opposing team puts 8 in the box knowing Mac can't throw on them. They've been pass protecting well. Onwenu and Strange are highly graded in particular, and though Trent can't protect on deep drops, he does well when a QB can step into the pocket like Zappe. When Onwenu and Strange were injured the line was bad. Now it's not.

As for the WR & TA FA market, we went after the highest paid WRs. Algholor was coming off a 800 yd season. Belichick was actually criticized for going on a spending spree. Henry is talented and would look much better with a mediocre QB. Look at Jonnu. He left New England, played with a mediocre QB in Ridder, and ended up DOUBLING his entire 2 yr New England production in half a season (before he got hurt).

Again, the WRs are underwhelming, but I think we learned that the top guys aren't there in FA. You have to draft them

 

[Deepster]

Just this part: Look at all the players who are gone

I wasn't saying they left immediately, just that they had all left. Effectively, Mac only played with McCourty

Entitled Pats fan whining. Every single team in the NFL has lost a similar roster over the same span.

 

[upstater]

Every single team in the NFL has lost a similar roster over the same span.

This is my entire point.

What are you going on about?

 

[Bongo Fury]

Smart enough to draft the guy at #199?? You are joking right??

No one else did. Right? I’d say he was undervalued.