OT: - Bill Belichick Retiring after season | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT: Bill Belichick Retiring after season

Deepster said:
No where in that article (or any one with the Curran text) is there a mention of retirement.

A) I’d be amazed he goes out on such an awful season.

B) I’d be very surprised if the Pats just let him walk and didn’t trade him to someone for a pick or two. Why just let him walk away under contract?
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What choice do they have?

When you fire someone, you fire them.
 
upstater said:
Cleveland was trending up, made the playoffs, even beat Parcells in New England. The whole team disintegrated after Modell announced he was moving them to Baltimore in the middle of the night.

The Patriots were 6-10 in 1995, then Belichick arrives and takes over the defense, and they go to the Super Bowl the very next year.

He moves on to take over the Jets' defense, they were just abysmal, and by the second year, they are in the AFCCG.

In that first year, Brady was not the guy he became later on. Look at the postseason. A lot of the Patriot points came off turnovers and special teams, the defense shut down the Greatest Show on turf. Heck, even in the championship game, the defense was largely credited with the win, and Brady wasn't even the QB for that game. It was Bledsoe.

I give Brady all the credit for the following years, even though the 2003 and 2004 defense was lights out.

He was key in the Seattle Super Bowl.

In the last one against the Rams, they gave up 3 points. I just checked to see where those Rams were. They scored the 11th most points in NFL history at the time. The Patriots D gave up 3 points.

This doesn't really matter a great deal to me since I'm a huge Brady fan, but IF I had to split the Super Bowl credit between them, I'd say Brady is responsible for 4 wins, Belichick for 2 wins.

People also need to realize what happened to the Patriots in 2020. They unwound the team, they took huge deadcap hits from the previous seasons, and 13 key starters left the team, mostly because they were old and at the end of their careers. Look at all the players who are gone: Edelman, Gronk, Hightower, McCourty, Chung, Gilmore, James White, Van Noy, Collins, Flowers, Thuney, Mason, Cannon, Harmon, the good JC Jackson, Gostkowski, Elandon Roberts. You can't lose this many veterans, many of them Pro Bowlers, and continue winning.

They did a total reset, a total rebuild. The only player who was mistakenly let go out of all of these is Thuney. The rest are out of football.

It's a brand new team, and it's mostly been rebuilt the proper way. They need a decent QB, not an all-time great HOFer or even an All-Pro.
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I certainly separate coordinator work from head coach work. Even in that 1st Super Bowl run Brady protected the ball, tuck rule notwithstanding.

Not a big deal to me either, but i have always felt Brady was the bigger piece of the puzzle. Unless Bill coaches again beyond this year., Brady will have won one without Bill, Bill never won one without Brady. The fact Brady beat Mahomes/Andy Reid to get it, while beating Rodgers in Green Bay to get there only cements in my mind how HE was the guy above all guys in the Patriots greatness. The "Patriot Way" isn't the same without TB12.
 
noeynox said:
I certainly separate coordinator work from head coach work. Even in that 1st Super Bowl run Brady protected the ball, tuck rule notwithstanding.

Not a big deal to me either, but i have always felt Brady was the bigger piece of the puzzle. Unless Bill coaches again beyond this year., Brady will have won one without Bill, Bill never won one without Brady. The fact Brady beat Mahomes/Andy Reid to get it, while beating Rodgers in Green Bay to get there only cements in my mind how HE was the guy above all guys in the Patriots greatness. The "Patriot Way" isn't the same without TB12.
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Tampa won that game with incredible control of the line of scrimmage on both sides. Chiefs OL was banged up.

Brady, if not drafted by New England and coached by Belichick would never have become what he did. He won elsewhere late in his career, he wouldn’t have earlier. Hell, probably no other coach would have played him over Bledsoe.
 
If the Pats fire BB, all they'll have is the Krafts. And they will never be good again until the Kraft's sell the team.
 
noeynox said:
I certainly separate coordinator work from head coach work. Even in that 1st Super Bowl run Brady protected the ball, tuck rule notwithstanding.

Not a big deal to me either, but i have always felt Brady was the bigger piece of the puzzle. Unless Bill coaches again beyond this year., Brady will have won one without Bill, Bill never won one without Brady. The fact Brady beat Mahomes/Andy Reid to get it, while beating Rodgers in Green Bay to get there only cements in my mind how HE was the guy above all guys in the Patriots greatness. The "Patriot Way" isn't the same without TB12.
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I'm not sure what you're saying about the 1st Super Bowl run. Protecting the ball, yes. Bledsoe also did that in the 1st CG. I'm just saying that was to Belichick's credit.

The rest of the argument is specious since they were together for 20 years. A very long time in the NFL. Belichick has never had another even decent QB to work with, though Matt Cassell did take them to 11-5 in 2008.

Essentially you're looking at the partnership they had during the bulk of their careers, which is a huge amount of time. It is MUCH simpler for a QB to join a loaded team with 9 Pro Bowlers and win than it is for a coach to take a team that lost 13 Super Bowl winning veteran starters and turn them around.

This is the NFL; teams rebuild, they cycle. QB is the most important position in sports. But you need a supporting cast.

Look at the Rams they brought in Stafford, a bunch of all-Pros, they won the Super Bowl when they went all-in. Then they lost many of the All-Pros. Stafford went 5-15 between last year's bye week and this year's bye week when he got hurt.
 
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HooperScooper said:
Why?
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The first thing they did when took ownership was run the Tuna out of town for Pete Carroll. They got lucky with Belichick. What are the chances they get that lucky again? I say none. Jon runs the Revolution, the very definition of consistent mediocrity. That's the Pat's future.
 
HooperScooper said:
Why?
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Because hiring a new coach in the NFL is a little like playing Russian roulette in reverse: 5 loaded, 1 blank.

Look at their division rivals:

Buffalo Bills: Wade Phillips, Greg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan, Sean McDermott. 8 consecutive coaches.

Jets: Al Groh, Herm Edwards, Eric Mangini, Rex Ryan, Todd Bowles, Adam Gase, Robert Saleh

Phins: Dave Wannstedt, Nick Saban, Cam Cameron, Tony Sparano, Joe Philbin, Adam Gase, Brian Flores, Mike McDaniel

Hiring NFL head coaches leaves a trail of tears 80% of the time.
 
I wouldn’t be shocked at all if Bill is the head coach and GM in Washington next year.
 
Waquoit said:
The first thing they did when took ownership was run the Tuna out of town for Pete Carroll. They got lucky with Belichick. What are the chances they get that lucky again? I say none. Jon runs the Revolution, the very definition of consistent mediocrity. That's the Pat's future.
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Also, Belichick said something a few years ago when he was criticized for going on a spending spree in free agency. He defended himself by saying that the team's payroll was 27th in the league. I wonder if this didn't sit well with Kraft.

I wonder if Belichick leaves and coaches another team if we might see Belichick become a free spender (assuming the team has cap space) while the Patriots run things the same way that they always have. It will be interesting to see a different approach by both of them. Maybe the Patriots would start spending simply to avoid this sort of narrative from building.
 
upstater said:
Cleveland was trending up, made the playoffs, even beat Parcells in New England. The whole team disintegrated after Modell announced he was moving them to Baltimore in the middle of the night.

The Patriots were 6-10 in 1995, then Belichick arrives and takes over the defense, and they go to the Super Bowl the very next year.

He moves on to take over the Jets' defense, they were just abysmal, and by the second year, they are in the AFCCG.

In that first year, Brady was not the guy he became later on. Look at the postseason. A lot of the Patriot points came off turnovers and special teams, the defense shut down the Greatest Show on turf. Heck, even in the championship game, the defense was largely credited with the win, and Brady wasn't even the QB for that game. It was Bledsoe.

I give Brady all the credit for the following years, even though the 2003 and 2004 defense was lights out.

He was key in the Seattle Super Bowl.

In the last one against the Rams, they gave up 3 points. I just checked to see where those Rams were. They scored the 11th most points in NFL history at the time. The Patriots D gave up 3 points.

This doesn't really matter a great deal to me since I'm a huge Brady fan, but IF I had to split the Super Bowl credit between them, I'd say Brady is responsible for 4 wins, Belichick for 2 wins.

People also need to realize what happened to the Patriots in 2020. They unwound the team, they took huge deadcap hits from the previous seasons, and 13 key starters left the team, mostly because they were old and at the end of their careers. Look at all the players who are gone: Edelman, Gronk, Hightower, McCourty, Chung, Gilmore, James White, Van Noy, Collins, Flowers, Thuney, Mason, Cannon, Harmon, the good JC Jackson, Gostkowski, Elandon Roberts. You can't lose this many veterans, many of them Pro Bowlers, and continue winning.

They did a total reset, a total rebuild. The only player who was mistakenly let go out of all of these is Thuney. The rest are out of football.

It's a brand new team, and it's mostly been rebuilt the proper way. They need a decent QB, not an all-time great HOFer or even an All-Pro.
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Not to mention Belichick led two of the best defenses ever with the Giants.
 
upstater said:
...He defended himself by saying that the team's payroll was 27th in the league. I wonder if this didn't sit well with Kraft.

... Maybe the Patriots would start spending simply to avoid this sort of narrative from building.
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Maybe, but I doubt it. I read they don't even invest in their facilities with all the money they made.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
Tampa won that game with incredible control of the line of scrimmage on both sides. Chiefs OL was banged up.

Brady, if not drafted by New England and coached by Belichick would never have become what he did. He won elsewhere late in his career, he wouldn’t have earlier. Hell, probably no other coach would have played him over Bledsoe.
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Nothing like throwing something out there that cannot be proven as a fact. That is like saying if Bill never had Tom he would have never won a SB as a head coach.

The facts are what they are. Tom Brady left New England and won a ring. Bill never won a ring as HC without Tom. The idea that Brady had minimal impact on Tampa's win that year is silly.

Saying Bill never had a QB as good as Brady is proving the point. I don't care what schemes he crafted, without THAT guy at QB you are not having a dynasty. I know Brady would have won with another head coach cause he proved it.
 
Belichick deserves a lot of credit. He delivered us two great Lombardi trophies.
 
I see him coaching the Chargers next year. Could definintely win 10 games a year there I think which would mean I think like 2/3 years for the wins record
 
noeynox said:
Nothing like throwing something out there that cannot be proven as a fact. That is like saying if Bill never had Tom he would have never won a SB as a head coach.

The facts are what they are. Tom Brady left New England and won a ring. Bill never won a ring as HC without Tom. The idea that Brady had minimal impact on Tampa's win that year is silly.

Saying Bill never had a QB as good as Brady is proving the point. I don't care what schemes he crafted, without THAT guy at QB you are not having a dynasty. I know Brady would have won with another head coach cause he proved it.
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Again, this is specious.

You're comparing two things that have totally different degrees of difficulty.

A top QB joins a loaded team and wins a Super Bowl.

A coach loses all his players and needs to rebuild a team.

These are two entirely different things. It's not a QB vs. a QB. Building a team is much harder than a QB winning a Super Bowl.

Nor do coaches require top QBs to win. Go look at the history of the last 25 Super Bowls. Half the QBs in them were not top QBs.
 
UCTitleTown said:
All the talk about him wanting to leave and coach San Diego or elsewhere was crazy. The guy's 70. Coaching is very demanding and stressful. What senior needs that in their golden years? Show me someone who wants to work a real job in their 70s, and I'll show you someone who has no other life, hates their life or is married and wants to get away from their spouse.
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But then one's ego steps...
 
upstater said:
Again, this is specious.

You're comparing two things that have totally different degrees of difficulty.

A top QB joins a loaded team and wins a Super Bowl.

A coach loses all his players and needs to rebuild a team.

These are two entirely different things. It's not a QB vs. a QB. Building a team is much harder than a QB winning a Super Bowl.

Nor do coaches require top QBs to win. Go look at the history of the last 25 Super Bowls. Half the QBs in them were not top QBs.
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Who are the not great QBs that won them? Dilfer? Boller? Brad Johnson?

A lot easier to build a team around a great QB than bring in an average QB to a "loaded team" and win.
 
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It wasn't just that Brady was so good, he was good and worked cheap. Allowing the team to invest in other areas giving them a heads up. Maybe the big difference between Brady and Peyton back in the day was that Brady left money on the table that resulted in a stronger team. Not that I agree with players leaving money on the table, but where you going to find another situation like that again?
 
Waquoit said:
It wasn't just that Brady was so good, he was good and worked cheap. Allowing the team to invest in other areas giving them a heads up. Maybe the big difference between Brady and Peyton back in the day was that Brady left money on the table that resulted in a stronger team. Not that I agree with players leaving money on the table, but where you going to find another situation like that again?
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Another bonus of the Brady era. Taking less to so they could put a better supporting cast around him. Like Ohtani deferring money early in the contract. Not many guys willing to do that.
 
noeynox said:
Another bonus of the Brady era. Taking less to so they could put a better supporting cast around him. Like Ohtani deferring money early in the contract. Not many guys willing to do that.
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Heard an interesting take on the Ohtani $$...He makes 50M from endorsements so he doesn't need it...He would rather get the salary once he is retired and not living in CA, thus saving all the state tax.
 
upstater said:
What choice do they have?

When you fire someone, you fire them.
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They didn’t say he was being fired. They’re mutually agreeing on parting ways. Why wouldn’t BB give them a list of teams he’d go to in a trade?
 
boba said:
Well, if you are telling me it was Brady who drew up those defensive schemes that stymied Peyton Freaking Manning oh so many times, then yeah, Belichick was nothing without Brady. Otherwise, Belichick was nothing without Vinateri or Gostowski. Which, obviously, was Bill's best innovation, the elevation of talent on special teams in order to field a superior team.

And retiring, yeah, it was probably Jonathan saying we're gonna let you go, so if instead you retire and not create a bunch of noise, we'll give you a nice gift.
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He’s not retiring. I
 
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NJHusky said:
It wasn't him, it was LT...how lucky can one guy get? :rolleyes: Goat QB and Goat LB...
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True but you can probably say that about every guy who is considered an all-time great coach in sports. Phil is probably just Bill Fitch with an annoying Zen Master shtick if he didn't have Jordan, Kobe, and Shaq. Popovich is going for his 18th straight loss now.
 
Waquoit said:
The first thing they did when took ownership was run the Tuna out of town for Pete Carroll. They got lucky with Belichick. What are the chances they get that lucky again? I say none. Jon runs the Revolution, the very definition of consistent mediocrity. That's the Pat's future.
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I'm sure they've learned since running Parcells off.

Like all sports teams there are ups and downs. As I tell my sons, teams don't usually go almost 20 seasons in a row being good. They're in a down period now. I predict they will be good again at some point in the near future with the Krafts owning the team.
 
LBird33 said:
Speculation of a beat writer in Boston
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Speculation of the beat writer in Boston most hostile to Belichick and ownership. Curran is to the Patriots what Mike DiMauro is to UConn basketball.

I am sure something will happen. Kraft will force some changes in personnel management if not coaching. That's just common sense.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Speculation of the beat writer in Boston most hostile to Belichick and ownership. Curran is to the Patriots what Mike DiMauro is to UConn basketball.

I am sure something will happen. Kraft will force some changes in personnel management if not coaching. That's just common sense.
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Imo it’s an impossible job to coach an NFL team and have a major or the biggest say on personnel and drafting. You simply can’t be an expert on draft eligible college players while devoting 80-120 hours a week as an NFL head coach. The Patriots had their highest amount of success when Pioli ran personnel and Belichick coached. Many coaches that have a great deal of success coaching want to take on the personnel duties too. Few do it at the highest level for very long, let alone at 70 years old. The Patriots drafts have been highly underwhelming for several years now.
 
It’s possible he will go to coach another team He’s not retiring
 
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