OT: Bill Belichick Retiring after season

[Waquoit]

Speculation of the beat writer in Boston most hostile to Belichick and ownership. Curran is to the Patriots what Mike DiMauro is to UConn basketball.

Not even close. DiMauro is a troll, Curran is a newsman. Pats fans demand total obsequiousness that he does not provide.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Imo it’s an impossible job to coach an NFL team and have a major or the biggest say on personnel and drafting. You simply can’t be an expert on draft eligible college players while devoting 80-120 hours a week as an NFL head coach. The Patriots had their highest amount of success when Pioli ran personnel and Belichick coached. Many coaches that have a great deal of success coaching want to take on the personnel duties too. Few do it at the highest level for very long, let alone at 70 years old. The Patriots drafts have been highly underwhelming for several years now.

They do still have other people doing that for Bill. I just don't think they are as good as Pioli and Casserio were. I do like the coach-GM combination because I think some teams have big problems when the coach wants players with certain skill sets and the GM isn't on the same page. But there need to be really good people doing the scouting and evaluation work.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Not even close. DiMauro is a troll, Curran is a newsman. Pats fans demand total obsequiousness that he does not provide.

Curran is a hostile troll who complains even when everything goes right. He doesn't have any sources because nobody in the organization likes him. Mike Reiss has sources (and is a really nice guy).

 

[TheHorde]

They do still have other people doing that for Bill. I just don't think they are as good as Pioli and Casserio were. I do like the coach-GM combination because I think some teams have big problems when the coach wants players with certain skill sets and the GM isn't on the same page. But there need to be really good people doing the scouting and evaluation work.

In title yes, but most believe that final calls and authority rests with Bill on personnel decisions. That’s why TB12 was pushed out, and why Kraft is likely still upset that he sided with Bill to allow that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

In title yes, but most believe that final calls and authority rests with Bill on personnel decisions. That’s why TB12 was pushed out, and why Kraft is likely still upset that he sided with Bill to allow that.

Nobody pushed Tom out. Tom wanted to go. Kraft reportedly did not want to offer Tom more than a one year deal, which makes sense for a QB over 40. If Tom stayed, nothing would have been different really. The team was old and slow at that point, and there was a lot of dead cap money.

 

[TheHorde]

Nobody pushed Tom out. Tom wanted to go. Kraft reportedly did not want to offer Tom more than a one year deal, which makes sense for a QB over 40. If Tom stayed, nothing would have been different really. The team was old and slow at that point, and there was a lot of dead cap money.

Why did Tom Brady leave New England Patriots for Tampa Bay Buccaneers?

Tom Brady spent 20 years forging a legendary career with the Patriots before he shockingly split with the franchise and signed with the Buccaneers.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Waquoit]

Curran is a hostile troll who complains even when everything goes right. He doesn't have any sources because nobody in the organization likes him. Mike Reiss has sources (and is a really nice guy).

I think you just proved my point.

 

[upstater]

Who are the not great QBs that won them? Dilfer? Boller? Brad Johnson?

A lot easier to build a team around a great QB than bring in an average QB to a "loaded team" and win.

It's hard enough getting there.

Here's a list: Foles, Brad Johnson, Dilfer, Flacco, Garoppolo, Goff, Kaepernick, Grossman, Hasselbeck, Delhomme, Collins, Chandler, O'Donnell, Humphries, Rypien, Hostettler. I have my doubts about a few more of them, but I'd say there are a lot of average QBs that get to the big game.

 

[upstater]

It wasn't just that Brady was so good, he was good and worked cheap. Allowing the team to invest in other areas giving them a heads up. Maybe the big difference between Brady and Peyton back in the day was that Brady left money on the table that resulted in a stronger team. Not that I agree with players leaving money on the table, but where you going to find another situation like that again?

He did the same with Tampa. Moneywise, it was the same as the Patriot contract, $25m.

 

[upstater]

They didn’t say he was being fired. They’re mutually agreeing on parting ways. Why wouldn’t BB give them a list of teams he’d go to in a trade?

Belichick makes an ungodly amount of money. It's doubtful he'd leave that on the table, leave willingly, and then on top of that, strap his new team down with a huge contract AND also take away players or draft picks from the new team. I have no idea why he'd willingly make things hard on himself.

 

[upstater]

Imo it’s an impossible job to coach an NFL team and have a major or the biggest say on personnel and drafting. You simply can’t be an expert on draft eligible college players while devoting 80-120 hours a week as an NFL head coach. The Patriots had their highest amount of success when Pioli ran personnel and Belichick coached. Many coaches that have a great deal of success coaching want to take on the personnel duties too. Few do it at the highest level for very long, let alone at 70 years old. The Patriots drafts have been highly underwhelming for several years now.

As underwhelming as they are, they have a lot of really good players. They are missing a QB, a WR and a LT. Those are 3 prime positions difficult to find guys in, but that explains their record.

People that think this team is talentless might not realize the investment they've made in the OL/TEs outside of tackle, and they've found/invested in a bunch of 2nd/3rd type WRs.

But on the defensive side they are young, a lot of talent. Barmore, Gonzalez, Dugger, Jennings, Peppers, Marcus Jones, Keion White; and then they have a bunch of solid midcareer guys like Tavai, Godchaux, Bentley, Jon Jones, Mills and Phillips.

 

[TheHorde]

As underwhelming as they are, they have a lot of really good players. They are missing a QB, a WR and a LT. Those are 3 prime positions difficult to find guys in, but that explains their record.

People that think this team is talentless might not realize the investment they've made in the OL outside of tackle and TEs, and a bunch of 2nd/3rd type WRs.

But on the defensive side they are young, a lot of talent. Barmore, Gonzalez, Dugger, Jennings, Peppers, Marcus Jones, Keion White; and then they have a bunch of solid midcareer guys like Tavai, Godchaux, Bentley, Jon Jones, Mills and Phillips.

The defense is competitive now. I disagree on the offense. Stevenson is very good. Hunter Henry is very good. The offensive line is dreadful. They need two tackles. They need almost an entirely new receiving corps. I like Douglas as a role player. They also will need another TE, preferably one that can block and contribute in the passing game. Drafting Harry over AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Deebo Samuel still haunts this roster. As does taking Isaiah Wynn and Sony Michel over Lamar Jackson.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

The defense is competitive now. I disagree on the offense. Stevenson is very good. Hunter Henry is very good. The offensive line is dreadful. They need two tackles. They need almost an entirely new receiving corps. I like Douglas as a role player. They also will need another TE, preferably one that can block and contribute in the passing game. Drafting Harry over AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Deebo Samuel still haunts this roster. As does taking Isaiah Wynn and Sony Michel over Lamar Jackson.

Yeah I don't know how anyone can take a sanguine view of the offense. It's horrendous. The defense is actually quite good even without Gonzalez and Judon for most of the season.

For the record, I don't necessarily buy this notion that they made a decision after the Germany game - a truly horrific loss. I'll believe that he's done when he's not on the sideline week one next year. (That being said, I can't imagine Belichick relinquishing control - or even accommodating shared control - of personnel decisions. And their drafting / roster construction has been absolutely brutal. So we're at an impasse and something's gotta give.)

 

[cordeodato]

Well, funny how without Brady those schemes haven't really amounted to much success as a head coach. This is both before and post Brady.

Thwy were great together, but the debate of if it was the coach or the quarterback, has been soundly settled.

Agreed. Crazy how when your offense keeps the opposing defense on the field for lengthy periods that you defense gets better. It could be argued that by keeping the opposing offense off the field, that Brady was also the Pats best defensive player.

 

[TheHorde]

Yeah I don't know how anyone can take a sanguine view of the offense. It's horrendous. The defense is actually quite good even without Gonzalez and Judon for most of the season.

For the record, I don't necessarily buy this notion that they made a decision after the Germany game - a truly horrific loss. I'll believe that he's done when he's not on the sideline week one next year. (That being said, I can't imagine Belichick relinquishing control - or even accommodating shared control - of personnel decisions. And their drafting / roster construction has been absolutely brutal. So we're at an impasse and something's gotta give.)

I think González and White were home run picks. And Mapu has a lot of potential. I’d Mayo becomes the head coach and the front office can do a good job evaluating players, they can be greatly improved in a year or two with the cap room they’ll have. They’ve had issues with dead cap money in recent years. That hurts trams badly. I personally wish they had paid Jakobi Meyers over Juju. And the three cone drill evaluation tool for pass catchers needs to go lol.

 

[Bongo Fury]

Well, funny how without Brady those schemes haven't really amounted to much success as a head coach. This is both before and post Brady.

Thwy were great together, but the debate of if it was the coach or the quarterback, has been soundly settled.

He was smart enough to draft Brady when no one else would or he just got lucky.

 

[noeynox]

He was smart enough to draft Brady when no one else would or he just got lucky.

Both. If they thought he was that good they would have drafted him sooner but sometimes its better to be lucky than good.

 

[Deepster]

Belichick makes an ungodly amount of money. It's doubtful he'd leave that on the table, leave willingly, and then on top of that, strap his new team down with a huge contract AND also take away players or draft picks from the new team. I have no idea why he'd willingly make things hard on himself.

So, they let him walk away for nothing. He continues to get paid on his contract. The Pats now have to find a head coach, pretty much the entire coaching staff and a QB.....and Belichick becomes a FA and gets another massive contract to play against the Pats?

 

[HitDog]

So, they let him walk away for nothing. He continues to get paid on his contract. The Pats now have to find a head coach, pretty much the entire coaching staff and a QB.....and Belichick becomes a FA and gets another massive contract to play against the Pats?

Can you please take this to the Pro Sports Board

 

[upstater]

So, they let him walk away for nothing. He continues to get paid on his contract. The Pats now have to find a head coach, pretty much the entire coaching staff and a QB.....and Belichick becomes a FA and gets another massive contract to play against the Pats?

They will fire him and subsidize him for 1 year. His new team will hire him, but the Patriots will pay the salary.

 

[uconnfan68]

Nobody pushed Tom out. Tom wanted to go. Kraft reportedly did not want to offer Tom more than a one year deal, which makes sense for a QB over 40. If Tom stayed, nothing would have been different really. The team was old and slow at that point, and there was a lot of dead cap money.

^^^ this.

 

[upstater]

The defense is competitive now. I disagree on the offense. Stevenson is very good. Hunter Henry is very good. The offensive line is dreadful. They need two tackles. They need almost an entirely new receiving corps. I like Douglas as a role player. They also will need another TE, preferably one that can block and contribute in the passing game. Drafting Harry over AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Deebo Samuel still haunts this roster. As does taking Isaiah Wynn and Sony Michel over Lamar Jackson.

The offensive line has been playing great for the second half of the season. What changed? 2 key starters came back in Onwenu and Strange. That solidified the line. The Steelers, who are sack machines, were not getting much pressure on Zappe. That's been true for the last several games. The running game was popping big holes for Stevenson and they were getting 150+ yards.

BTW, people tend to forget that in that draft with Harry (which was 7 years ago at this point) there were 6 WRs selected between Harry and Metcalf. 4 of them were busts: Arcega, Isabella, Campbell, Hardman. Just because you avoided Harry doesn't mean you would have hit on another.

The Patriots need to expend more picks on WRs because most of them don't do very well, even in the first round. Think of guys like Treylon Burks, Quentin Johnston, Jackson Smith Njigba. Half of the 1st rounders don't produce. To assure yourself a top WR you need to keep taking them over and over.

 

[upstater]

Well, funny how without Brady those schemes haven't really amounted to much success as a head coach. This is both before and post Brady.

Thwy were great together, but the debate of if it was the coach or the quarterback, has been soundly settled.

It's the horrible QBs they've had the last several years. Newton and Mac.

Think about this: those schemes were good enough to allow Cassell, Brissett and Garoppolo to go a combined 14-6.

 

[Deepster]

They will fire him and subsidize him for 1 year. His new team will hire him, but the Patriots will pay the salary.

The details I could find said his extension prior to the 2023 season was "lucrative" and "long term". Estimates in the 17m-25m a year range.

I don't think he'll be "fired" and I don't see him giving up any money. So I guess it's up to what "long term" means as far as how much the Pats are giving up.

 

[Deepster]

It's the horrible QBs they've had the last several years. Newton and Mac.

Think about this: those schemes were good enough to allow Cassell, Brissett and Garoppolo to go a combined 14-6.

Cassell had 21 TDs and 11 INTs and had Randy Moss and Wes Welker to throw to. Moss had 11 of those TDs. So I think you're reaching to say it was the schemes.

 

[uconnfan68]

It's the horrible QBs they've had the last several years. Newton and Mac.

Think about this: those schemes were good enough to allow Cassell, Brissett and Garoppolo to go a combined 14-6.

Better receivers. Alligator arms and stone hands.

 

[noeynox]

Cassell had 21 TDs and 11 INTs and had Randy Moss and Wes Welker to throw to. Moss had 11 of those TDs. So I think you're reaching to say it was the schemes.

Cassell also missed the playoffs. How many times did Brady miss the playoffs all those years?

 

[Waquoit]

Cassell also missed the playoffs. How many times did Brady miss the playoffs all those years?

That's a bad take. How often was 11-5 not good enough?

 

[Waquoit]

They will fire him and subsidize him for 1 year. His new team will hire him, but the Patriots will pay the salary.

I've heard that BB said he's not leaving any money on the table. And I believe him. He's not going to negotiate leaving. His attitude will be "screw you" pay me.

 

[jayteeman]

Mac and all the injuries killed Bill. Coach never professed to be a motivator, and never allowed any one player to get all the accolades. He recruited captains of teams....smart players.....no show boats.....too smart for the league or today's players.
The stories and respect he has about Lawrence Taylor is all I need to hear about one of the greatest defensive minds and having coached the greatest defensive player and offensive player.