Bilas picked us 10th

[aceboon]

You said you don't deal with hypotheticals yet you make claims that Lavin would have rings if the immortal Baron Davis hadn't been injured??

Was just stating that they had a few issues and had things been different, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation. Losing Baron was like a Uconn team losing Kemba. One year they also lost Jelani McCoy and Kris Johnson to suspension. I believe one of them was also inured. The real point was that in more than one year, Lavin's teams were a few bad breaks away from very possibly advancing a few rounds more and nobody would be having this conversation. I don't deal in hypotheticals. I'm glad ucla ran him out. I don't think he's John Wooden, but I think Lavin is a fantastic recruiter and knows very well how to build a successful program. Lots of average to better than average coaches have won many a championship. Talent wins ballgames.

 

[MCNPA]

You said you don't deal with hypotheticals yet you make claims that Lavin would have rings if the immortal Baron Davis hadn't been injured??

No, just said there would some big injuries and suspensions that prevented his teams from likely going further. Lavin catches more criticism than any young coach I've seen. The guy was in his early 30's when he was thrust into that job and it resulted in one elite 8 and 4 Sweet 16's. Was Jim Calhoun the same coach in his first 6 seasons up in Boston as a young coach as he is now? Not likely. I'm simply saying that Lavin's results were quite good, and likely would have been even better if not for some big setbacks. Lavin caught are ally bad rap for a pretty successful run as a young head coach. The standards he is held against are pretty absurd.

 

[caw]

No, just said there would some big injuries and suspensions that prevented his teams from likely going further. Lavin catches more criticism than any young coach I've seen. The guy was in his early 30's when he was thrust into that job and it resulted in one elite 8 and 4 Sweet 16's. Was Jim Calhoun the same coach in his first 6 seasons up in Boston as a young coach as he is now? Not likely. I'm simply saying that Lavin's results were quite good, and likely would have been even better if not for some big setbacks. Lavin caught are ally bad rap for a pretty successful run as a young head coach. The standards he is held against are pretty absurd.

He was also getting very good players. Nobody doubts he is an excellent recruiter, but his in game coaching is not top notch for the BE.

 

[MCNPA]

He was also getting very good players. Nobody doubts he is an excellent recruiter, but his in game coaching is not top notch for the BE.

I just don't know how somebody can say his game coaching isn't up to par, when there isn't much data that supports that argument except from maybe one season of his 7 seasons back in the late 90's as a young first time head coach. He got good players at ucla, but also upended the #1 team in the country at that time, 4 years in a row.

I'm not saying he's the best coach in America. His record doesn't indicate he's a bad coach though.

 

[caw]

I just don't know how somebody can say his game coaching isn't up to par, when there isn't much data that supports that argument except from maybe one season of his 7 seasons back in the late 90's as a young first time head coach. He got good players at ucla, but also upended the #1 team in the country at that time, 4 years in a row.

I'm not saying he's the best coach in America. His record doesn't indicate he's a bad coach though.

This is a coaches league. Up to par for a coach in the BE is not the same as other conferences. Let me be nice and rephrase, he isn't a top 5 coach in the BE and is probably closer to 8-10, IMO.

I would put Pitino, Calhoun, Jimmy B., Huggins as givens. Then I would throw Dixon, Brey and Buzz ahead of him also. You can argue Wright and Cronin if you want.

 

[MCNPA]

This is a coaches league. Up to par for a coach in the BE is not the same as other conferences. Let me be nice and rephrase, he isn't a top 5 coach in the BE and is probably closer to 8-10, IMO.

I would put Pitino, Calhoun, Jimmy B., Huggins as givens. Then I would throw Dixon, Brey and Buzz ahead of him also. You can argue Wright and Cronin if you want.

I certainly wouldn't argue with Jimmy b, Calhoun, Pitino. Huggins no longer in this league. Id put him in the group with Dixon, Brey. Buzz, Cronin not even close just yet. Cronin has 2 good seasons. Lavin had 5 sweet 16's or better and has been coaching less than 10 years. He has a long way to go to write his own history. Jimmy B and Calhoun are on their way to retirement.

 

[caw]

I certainly wouldn't argue with Jimmy b, Calhoun, Pitino. Huggins no longer in this league. Id put him in the group with Dixon, Brey. Buzz, Cronin not even close just yet. Cronin has 2 good seasons. Lavin had 5 sweet 16's or better and has been coaching less than 10 years. He has a long way to go to write his own history. Jimmy B and Calhoun are on their way to retirement.

Lol. I keep forgetting wvu is gone. Considering lavin hasn't coached a team of his players in years I drop him below Brey, Dixon and buzz. Cronin you can argue with wright.

 

[MCNPA]

Lavin and Brey have similar winning percentages. Brey marginally higher, but Brey has 1 sweet 16 to Lavin's 4 sweet 16's and one Elite 8. Lavin has beaten Brey the last 2 years as well. In fact, Lavin has as many sweet 16's and Elite 8's as Brey, Buzz Williams and Dixon combined. Hard to say they are better than Lavin when you need to combine all 3 to reach Lavin's tourney advances.

I will say though, that none compare to Calhoun who has done more than any coach in the country with less. Other coaches don't match Calhoun's success considering the talent level at other competing schools. Uconn has landed some nice talent, but not the red carpet of McD's players that other top schools have had. Problem is he's impossible to replace.

 

[mauconnfan]

Lavin and Brey have similar winning percentages. Brey marginally higher, but Brey has 1 sweet 16 to Lavin's 4 sweet 16's and one Elite 8. Lavin has beaten Brey the last 2 years as well. In fact, Lavin has as many sweet 16's and Elite 8's as Brey, Buzz Williams and Dixon combined. Hard to say they are better than Lavin when you need to combine all 3 to reach Lavin's tourney advances.

I will say though, that none compare to Calhoun who has done more than any coach in the country with less. Other coaches don't match Calhoun's success considering the talent level at other competing schools. Uconn has landed some nice talent, but not the red carpet of McD's players that other top schools have had. Problem is he's impossible to replace.

Fair assessments and not clouded. He's a good coach and needs to make this Johnnies team special to hit the next level of coaches and who knows, maybe he will. The one thing you have to remember he took over a job at UCLA which was at a historic basketball school which was on a roll again bringing in good players, winning a NC a couple years prior. That's a bit different than many of the coaches you compare him to. I think he needs to win something at StJ's before he steps it up and he may just do that with the crop of athletes he continues to bring in.

 

[MCNPA]

Fair assessments and not clouded. He's a good coach and needs to make this Johnnies team special to hit the next level of coaches and who knows, maybe he will. The one thing you have to remember he took over a job at UCLA which was at a historic basketball school which was on a roll again bringing in good players, winning a NC a couple years prior. That's a bit different than many of the coaches you compare him to. I think he needs to win something at StJ's before he steps it up and he may just do that with the crop of athletes he continues to bring in.

Agree with you totally. SJU needs to be his legacy, not UCLA. I think it is a big reason he chose to come to SJU. Lavin's strength is his ability to manage the program and his recruiting ability. Now we have to wait and see what he does. I think his approach has been great. He's hiring great people and landing top talent that suits his style of play. Now he needs to get SJU winning.

For what it's worth, SJU will be real young this year, but I think the roster is real sound and almost all spots. Great depth and athleticism. I think we will start to see this season as the cornerstone to Lavin finally having HIS team together and moving in a positive direction. Finally we at least have a deep roster to compete with.

 

[caw]

Lavin and Brey have similar winning percentages. Brey marginally higher, but Brey has 1 sweet 16 to Lavin's 4 sweet 16's and one Elite 8. Lavin has beaten Brey the last 2 years as well. In fact, Lavin has as many sweet 16's and Elite 8's as Brey, Buzz Williams and Dixon combined. Hard to say they are better than Lavin when you need to combine all 3 to reach Lavin's tourney advances.

I will say though, that none compare to Calhoun who has done more than any coach in the country with less. Other coaches don't match Calhoun's success considering the talent level at other competing schools. Uconn has landed some nice talent, but not the red carpet of McD's players that other top schools have had. Problem is he's impossible to replace.

I think that is a bit simplistic, Lavin had a plethora of talent to work with that none of the other three ever had. How many All-Americans (high school) did Lavin have at UCLA? I'm not arguing who is the better recruiter (which is a huge part of college coaching). I think Brey, Williams and Dixon are all better on the sideline.


Buzz has been head coach for all of 5 years and has a darn impressive record for that 5 years. His record is almost equal to Lavins first 5 despite one year being at New Orleans and the rest at Marquette (as opposed to a recruiting hot bed of UCLA). Looking at Marquette only, he has a slightly higher winning percentage. He also has similar NCAAT success to Lavin's at UCLA.

Dixon has a higher winning percentage than Lavin, has more conference regular season championships and more conference post-season tournament championships than Lavin. I'll give you the Sweet Sixteen thing, but again he's at Pitt not UCLA.

I'll give you two years ago against Brey, but was Lavin on the sideline last year for the ND game (I have no clue). I just think he does a lot more with a lot less than Lavin.

Jay Wright has a better winning percentage and more NCAAT success at Villanova.

Don't get me wrong, I am more than willing to give Lavin the chance to prove me wrong, but I just don't think he has done enough to warrant being higher than those four, yet. I do like where he is taking SJU though. I agree he has done a great job of recruiting players and support staff to do a good job there. It's wait and see to if he actually does or not though.

I don't think Calhoun is impossible to replace, but extremely hard to replace, yes.

 

[MCNPA]

I think that is a bit simplistic, Lavin had a plethora of talent to work with that none of the other three ever had. How many All-Americans (high school) did Lavin have at UCLA? I'm not arguing who is the better recruiter (which is a huge part of college coaching). I think Brey, Williams and Dixon are all better on the sideline.


Buzz has been head coach for all of 5 years and has a darn impressive record for that 5 years. His record is almost equal to Lavins first 5 despite one year being at New Orleans and the rest at Marquette (as opposed to a recruiting hot bed of UCLA). Looking at Marquette only, he has a slightly higher winning percentage. He also has similar NCAAT success to Lavin's at UCLA.

Dixon has a higher winning percentage than Lavin, has more conference regular season championships and more conference post-season tournament championships than Lavin. I'll give you the Sweet Sixteen thing, but again he's at Pitt not UCLA.

I'll give you two years ago against Brey, but was Lavin on the sideline last year for the ND game (I have no clue). I just think he does a lot more with a lot less than Lavin.

Jay Wright has a better winning percentage and more NCAAT success at Villanova.

Don't get me wrong, I am more than willing to give Lavin the chance to prove me wrong, but I just don't think he has done enough to warrant being higher than those four, yet. I do like where he is taking SJU though. I agree he has done a great job of recruiting players and support staff to do a good job there. It's wait and see to if he actually does or not though.

I don't think Calhoun is impossible to replace, but extremely hard to replace, yes.

Jim Calhoun is impossible to replace because of the way he "coaches up" talent. Uconn has gotten good talent, but lots of it has been guys that Calhoun has really procured that werent top guys in high school. Nobody else out there can win multiple national championships with some of the groups he did. Don't get me wrong, I'm not part of his fan club, but it is impossible to ignore his ability to find talent and what he has built. Imo, Calhoun is impossible to replace. Thats a compliment to him.

 

[mauconnfan]

Jim Calhoun is impossible to replace because of the way he "coaches up" talent. Uconn has gotten good talent, but lots of it has been guys that Calhoun has really procured that werent top guys in high school. Nobody else out there can win multiple national championships with some of the groups he did. Don't get me wrong, I'm not part of his fan club, but it is impossible to ignore his ability to find talent and what he has built. Imo, Calhoun is impossible to replace. Thats a compliment to him.

Fair enough again......while someone may win replacing him they won't be able to do it in the same mold, few can or have.......

 

[Waquoit]

This MC guy is a trip. Used to infest Husky boards all the time when St. John's was almost as good as UConn. He's been gone for almost a decade and now here he's back out of the woodwork. He wasn't missed.

 

[MCNPA]

This MC guy is a trip. Used to infest Husky boards all the time when St. John's was almost as good as UConn. He's been gone for almost a decade and now here he's back out of the woodwork. He wasn't missed.

I've followed all big east teams fan boards since dial-up. Always enjoyed all of them.

 

[Waquoit]

I've followed all big east teams fan boards since dial-up.

No kidding, I think I remember you from AOL.

 

[mauconnfan]

No kidding, I think I remember you from AOL.

He's matured Waqy, let him be. He seems to be somewhat logical in his posts and ready to talk intellectually about the BE, imagine that from our rivals? LOL.........give him a shot for a new beginning!

 

[CL82]

He's matured Waqy, let him be. He seems to be somewhat logical in his posts and ready to talk intellectually about the BE, imagine that from our rivals? LOL.........give him a shot for a new beginning!

Um, we don't have to hold hands and sign Kumbaya do we?

 

[MCNPA]

He's matured Waqy, let him be. He seems to be somewhat logical in his posts and ready to talk intellectually about the BE, imagine that from our rivals? LOL.........give him a shot for a new beginning!

Back during dial-up days I was in college. Now it's a decade or two later. I'm as mature as I'll ever get I suppose. ;-)

 

[mauconnfan]

Um, we don't have to hold hands and sign Kumbaya do we?

Do what you want but it's a college hoops forum and there's nothing wrong with a little knowledgeable communication with other BE fans........some of our own are worst!!