BIG fan here: let's keep hope alive

[itgoeslike]

A few thoughts ...

I agree with you about UVA and would be supportive of their inclusion in the B1G. Unfortunately, their signing of the ACC GOR, makes it clear there is not reciprocal interest at this time.

I agree with you about PSU. As you mentioned, there are certainly a subset of PSU fans who dislike being in the B1G and would prefer being in the ACC; however, conversations that I have had over the years with PSU alums and fans have been uniformly positive about their being in the B1G. During recent conversations, they have also indicated being pleased with the invitation of Maryland and Rutgers, as eastern partners, to the B1G.

I am supportive of UConn to the B1G but one concern I have for our UConn hosts is whether Nebraska will feel a similar desire to add western partners and petition the B1G to look closer at whether Kansas and Oklahoma could be lured away from their respective instate rivals and the Big 12.

The GORs are a double edged sword. IF they hold, UCONN is arguably the most attractive team remaining for the ACC, B1G (AAU aside) or Big12, should any decide to expand. The issue becomes who is paired with UCONN. While the Big 12 and ACC can pair us with Cincinnati and others, it becomes much more difficult for the B1G to find a suitable partner. Missouri and Vanderbilt are potential partners not covered by a GOR, but it's unlikely they would leave the SEC, at least in the foreseeable future.

IF the ACC and B12 GORs fall apart, that's a mixed bag too. If the ACC cracks, the B1G would likely choose to pursue UNC with UVA, potentially creating a domino effect, which would open up opportunities for the B12 and SEC to raid the ACC. UCONN would get snatched up by the ACC, but it remains to be seen what that conference looks like when the dust settles. If the B12 cracks, then the B1G likely evaluates options on its western front, potentially taking two or three teams. This may create an opportunity for UCONN if the B1G wants to continue to grow its eastern front, but UCONN would only be invited if Texas and Oklahoma go the PAC and/or the B1G decides to expand to 18 or 20.

Our best hope is that Virginia decides to depart ACC and UNC isn't ready to give up its power, and UCONN slides in (a la Rutgers). Penn State would be happy with an eastern contingent of UVA, UCONN, Rutgers, and Maryland. For once they would be at the geographic center of their division, instead of being an outlier, which contributed to some of the B1G dissent in the past.

 

[NickyNewark]

I wrote the exact opposite.
I wrote that the last 9 years have been totally meaningless.

@Lets hope not upstater because when UConn puts their mind to something they get it done quicker than most including my beloved RU!!While Pitt/SU and BC and others were living off past glory you were BEATING them!Keep the faith as like RU you have a great market and unlimited potential to become a breakout program!It won't be as long as it might feel like right now!Heck in M's and WBB your already a national type program but football just takes a little longer!Ha ha just ask me!!

 

[NickyNewark]

@ NickyNewark

Just a couple of points…

"Gee, look at that nice little college in Storrs setting there like a nice boy" and take UConn instead do ya?”

I made no implication that the B1G would dump Rutgers over this. All I said is that the B1G is furious with Rutgers over this fiasco and that the only thing saving them is the fact that Rutgers is located in the country’s biggest TV market.

And by the way…

“LOL!! Hilarious...owned? ha ha,”

I was stating that UConn’s goal should be to beat Rutgers and other similar college at the same level every year. Isn’t that everyone’s goal? UConn’s goal when they joined I-A football with the BigE in 2003, their goal was to be competitive. I would say 2 co-championships in 11 years is not bad. Rutgers stated goal was to win the BigE every year since joining in 1995 and they have won, uh, oh, never mind. At least Rutgers is 6 and 5 against UConn since 2001, so you have that.

Also…

“people don't know but the minute Pitt and SU found out in "10" that RU was close to getting a B1G invite the BE's days were numbered! Their pride couldn’t stand or understand how "they" RU a large state U with ties and similar mission and fanbase's in a giant demo could pass "them' up? Imagine you guys came in with us and "they" were left when the music stopped? That would have been priceless to see their faces and boards meltdown along with their arrogant private school pride!”

Pitt is a private institution? It was once part of U Pennsylvania; but, it became a state affiliated school in 1966 and is considered ‘public.’ Yet, I do agree about the BigE; but, I would argue that the BigE was destined to fail the day Football was added.

@Yes Pitt is a sort of mixed past school but I do know technically there public but how many do?I can't disagree with most of your points!Well thought out post but I'm not so sure about the "basketball only" thing?I think the mistake was jealousy of PSU by most of us!!But thats all water over the bridge now! I certainly wish we could have worked it out on the football side because I love eastern football and think regional pride is important!Maybe taking in those thugs from the "U" was another big mistake but BC compounded it by listening to the "devil"!Now look at them!!

 

[pj]

It's the lack of traffic that makes it bearable - driving 5-6 years in light traffic is a lot less stressful than driving 2 hours in a traffic jam.

Yes. Plus sharing a road with a Midwesterner is much more relaxing than sharing a road with an Easterner.

 

[pj]

I am supportive of UConn to the B1G but one concern I have for our UConn hosts is whether Nebraska will feel a similar desire to add western partners and petition the B1G to look closer at whether Kansas and Oklahoma could be lured away from their respective instate rivals and the Big 12.

Isn't this a certainty? Nebraska would surely love to be in a conference with Kansas and Oklahoma again. Heck, UConn would love to be in a conference with them, if we had nearby partners also.

 

[Adios]

I hope we never have a fan this dorky show up on TV. I think the metrosexual trend makes it inevitable.

 

[NickyNewark]

I hope we never have a fan this dorky show up on TV. I think the metrosexual trend makes it inevitable.

Butch,the guys hilarious...Im glad he's not reppin either of our team's tho!!lofl..

 

[Adios]

It's so horrible I can't even laugh about it.

I do think Kansas is a good addition to the B1G. Natural resources are the future of this country.

 

[B1GALUM]

Isn't this a certainty? Nebraska would surely love to be in a conference with Kansas and Oklahoma again. Heck, UConn would love to be in a conference with them, if we had nearby partners also.

Yes. We already know Kansas and Oklahoma were considered and would likely be looked at again. My concern for UConn is that, if Kansas and Oklahoma were in fact to join the B1G, this may bring a halt to B1G expansion and UConn is left on the outside again. I think UConn to the B1G is contingent upon addition of either an east and west team scenario (UConn and Kansas) or a two east team scenario (UConn and ?). If the B1G goes west for two teams to get to 16, is there any chance the ACC would reconsider UConn along with Cincinnati to get to 16?

 

[upstater]

Yes. We already know Kansas and Oklahoma were considered and would likely be looked at again. My concern for UConn is that, if Kansas and Oklahoma were in fact to join the B1G, this may bring a halt to B1G expansion and UConn is left on the outside again. I think UConn to the B1G is contingent upon addition of either an east and west team scenario (UConn and Kansas) or a two east team scenario (UConn and ?). If the B1G goes west for two teams to get to 16, is there any chance the ACC would reconsider UConn along with Cincinnati to get to 16?

UConn is at least a decade away from being viable for the B1G. The ACC has always been the only logical outcome. That's the problem here, as realignment has really come to a standstill. Unless something screwy happens with TV dictating things behind the scene, I can't see how it shakes up.

 

[Adios]

A possible perfect 20-school B1G would include UConn, UVA, UNC, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas.

Human resources will still remain in the Bos-Wash area.

 

[specialisthusky]

A possible perfect 20-school B1G would include UConn, UVA, UNC, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas.

Human resources will still remain in the Bos-Wash area.

Scratch UNC for Mizzou and you have 4 pods of 5 geographically coherent traditional rivalries in a 20 team Big. That is my best #B1Gharder scenario.

 

[itgoeslike]

UConn is at least a decade away from being viable for the B1G. The ACC has always been the only logical outcome. That's the problem here, as realignment has really come to a standstill. Unless something screwy happens with TV dictating things behind the scene, I can't see how it shakes up.

I think the break up of one of the GORs would be a catalyst. The B1G's upcoming TV deal would be another potential reason to expand. Over the next 2-3 years, if UCONN shows significant trending in research revenue, performs on the gridiron, and continues to rise in academics they would be a viable option for the B1G. Lastly, I don't see the addition of Maryland and Rutgers alone completing or satisfying the B1G's Eastern expansion goals.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

The last eastern gap in the B1G is the wealthy,populous Bronx to Boston area of which Connecticut is in the heart of!A 12M people gap minimum that I'm concerned the ACC might try for!That's 3M more people than reside in NJ!

Couldn't agree more. I'm perplexed as to why neither the ACC nor the B1G have move on UConn yet. The ACC's reluctance is perhaps more understandable given certain animosity toward the Huskies among some of its members (plus they already have a lukewarm New England presence in Boston). It's the B1G I find more troubling because UConn (together with ND and Syracuse) in the ACC bifurcates the NYC market potentially delivering the greater share to the ACC and crippling the value Rutgers is supposed to deliver.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

My theory on northern NJ football is those kids from Bosco, Bergen and Joes are coached up and are often "overrated". For every Cushing (who had some help from PEDs but has always had a nasty streak) there's a Toal who was just better at fundamentals. Often times the talent catches up. New England has to have the same percentage of good athletes. UConn just needs to find it and cultivate it.

In 2011, BC High School from Boston, which was rated the #1 HS in Eastern Mass football to start the season, travelled to NJ to play DePaul in Wayne. DePaul was the 5th Best Catholic HS football program in NNJ at the time behind Bosco, Bergen Catholic, St Joe’s (Montvale) who beat DePaul the week before 49 to 3 , and St. Peter’s. DePaul won 49 to 35 with BC scoring the last 14 points after DePaul put in the 2nd stringers. It’s think NJ is so good in HS football is 1) coaching, 2) competition, and 3) parents who are willing to spend $$ and time carting their kids to these select programs (if I take an early train home from work, I always run into Bosco kids in Ramsey taking the train the hour up to Middletown NY or the 45 minutes down to Paterson)
The only comparable HS sports program I have seen in New England is Catholic HS hockey in the Boston area.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

It's the lack of traffic that makes it bearable - driving 5-6 years in light traffic is a lot less stressful than driving 2 hours in a traffic jam.

In parts of the Midwest (not the cities), one can also fall sleep while driving and wake up 2 hour later still driving straight on the same highway.

 

[pj]

Yes. We already know Kansas and Oklahoma were considered and would likely be looked at again. My concern for UConn is that, if Kansas and Oklahoma were in fact to join the B1G, this may bring a halt to B1G expansion and UConn is left on the outside again. I think UConn to the B1G is contingent upon addition of either an east and west team scenario (UConn and Kansas) or a two east team scenario (UConn and ?). If the B1G goes west for two teams to get to 16, is there any chance the ACC would reconsider UConn along with Cincinnati to get to 16?

If Kansas and Oklahoma leave the B12, then Texas is leaving also. I can't imagine them following A&M to the SEC, they are too proud to be seen as followers; the B1G pays as well, has more academic prestige, differentiates UT, would have historic rivals Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and in football presents an easier path to a national championship game. Pac is a possibility if they let UT have the Longhorn network and take a bunch of politically influential Texas schools, but the Longhorn network is struggling anyway and Texas politicians might not force UT to a perceived less desirable conference with worse travel and fewer historic rivals.

So if it's Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas to the B1G, they need a #18, and who would fit better than UConn?

 

[pj]

Couldn't agree more. I'm perplexed as to why neither the ACC nor the B1G have move on UConn yet. The ACC's reluctance is perhaps more understandable given certain animosity toward the Huskies among some of its members (plus they already have a lukewarm New England presence in Boston). It's the B1G I find more troubling because UConn (together with ND and Syracuse) in the ACC bifurcates the NYC market potentially delivering the greater share to the ACC and crippling the value Rutgers is supposed to deliver.

The ACC doesn't have UConn for the same reason it doesn't have even bigger market Rutgers, it's been playing tactical and political games instead of building up strategic assets. The B1G's patience is understandable, they only have a few spots and UConn isn't compelling football or research/AAU wise. I'm sure they're interested and depending on how the chips fall we may make it in.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I agree with UNC but disagree about UVA - Virginia's becoming more 'Northern' every year due to migration from the Midwest and the school itself pulls in a lot of students from all across the US. I think in another decade or so the culture gap won't be that great.

I also think hatred from the PSU fans are a bit overblown - there's a subset of vocal haters on-line but the fans that I know who were students around when Penn State joined the Big Ten are generally big supporters.

Looking at the 2012 Presidential Election map, i.e. Red v. Blue, VA is close to being ‘northerinized’ due to transplants from the Northeast and Midwest into primarily the DC metro area. NC, with RTP and Charlotte, is about a decade behind VA. Thus, 10 to 15 years from now, it will be interesting to see what happens and I firmly believe the B1G knows this.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/

 

[DarthGrumpy]

If Kansas and Oklahoma leave the B12, then Texas is leaving also. I can't imagine them following A&M to the SEC, they are too proud to be seen as followers; the B1G pays as well, has more academic prestige, differentiates UT, would have historic rivals Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and in football presents an easier path to a national championship game. Pac is a possibility if they let UT have the Longhorn network and take a bunch of politically influential Texas schools, but the Longhorn network is struggling anyway and Texas politicians might not force UT to a perceived inferior conference.

So if it's Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas to the B1G, they need a #18, and who would fit better than UConn?

The big block, besides cultural, of U Texas going to the B1G is that U Texas expects to have special treatment in any conference and it doubtful that the B1G, i.e. Ohio State and Michigan, will allow such. That is a key reason why ND is not in the B1G. If the XII implodes, U Texas would have better chance of getting special treatment in the PAC where only USC has the weight to match U Texas. Plus, the B1G will hesitate if Texas Tech is required to be paired with U Texas politically. PAC would not.

 

[pj]

The big block, besides cultural, of U Texas going to the B1G is that U Texas expects to have special treatment in any conference and it doubtful that the B1G, i.e. Ohio State and Michigan, will allow such. That is a key reason why ND is not in the B1G. If the XII implodes, U Texas would have better chance of getting special treatment in the PAC where only USC has the weight to match U Texas. Plus, the B1G will hesitate if Texas Tech is required to be paired with U Texas politically. PAC would not.

They've already lost Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and Texas A&M to the special treatment issue. If they want to continue to have a conference that gives them special treatment, they'd better keep Oklahoma and Kansas. Otherwise they'll be the biggest fish in a very small puddle. I agree the Pac might give them special treatment (though they refused it last time), but (a) the Longhorn network isn't doing well so special treatment may not be that important, (b) the Pac has major downsides with travel and time zones of games since most Texas fans are in Eastern and Central time zones, (c) money is better in the B1G, (d) academics are better in the B1G, (e) we're hypothesizing their historic rivals Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska will be in the B1G.

Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and K State would have to be worked out. I've wondered before if the Pac might take them with a side deal with Fox and the B1G. They're similar in profile to a lot of existing Pac members, Wash State, Oregon State, Utah, Arizona State.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

@ NickyNewark

Thanks. As I said, I respect Rutgers the school and the student, just pissed at the current administration, especially as my taxes go to Rutgers nowadays.
Miami was the name brand that the Big E needed at the time. Plus, just like the B1G today, the Big E back then saw the demographics shifting south and needed the brand and the link to that growing recruiting market. Once adding football, the Big E made two fatal mistakes that doomed the conference. The first was in 1992 when the conference rejected Penn State as a member. The second was in 1995 when the Big E did not force ND to join as a full member (doable in football as the Big E only had 8 teams at that time, ND could still have 3 to 4 independent games). A conference with ND, Penn State, Miami, a lock on the NY market (ND, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn), and a handful of traditional football schools would not have been broken-up, even after the non-football Catholics went their own way.

 

[GopherHawk]

Yes. We already know Kansas and Oklahoma were considered and would likely be looked at again. My concern for UConn is that, if Kansas and Oklahoma were in fact to join the B1G, this may bring a halt to B1G expansion and UConn is left on the outside again. I think UConn to the B1G is contingent upon addition of either an east and west team scenario (UConn and Kansas) or a two east team scenario (UConn and ?). If the B1G goes west for two teams to get to 16, is there any chance the ACC would reconsider UConn along with Cincinnati to get to 16?

If you believe PODS are the way to go and 16 is the largest a conference can reasonably be, then one eastern and one western option is a must. I do not believe having four new schools in a POD is beneficial. The three "Eastern" schools currently are PSU, UMd and Rutgers. Adding two Eastern schools forces one of those schools out and PSU is the Western most of that scenario.

If you believe divisions are solution then you have to realize that by adding two schools to the East can cause IU to move West. While this takes care of rivalry issues, it makes exposure for Nebraska, Wisky and Northwestern difficult and Delany has stated many times the schools want to play each other more, not less.

Four team PODS with an East POD allows for the simplest schedule as it rotates. You don't need semifinals and all rivalries are accounted for.

UCONN and a Western partner would make the most sense for scheduling and make Nebraska happy. Put the firmest grip possible on NYC DMA. Create the best basketball option as well.

 

[B1GALUM]

Scratch UNC for Mizzou and you have 4 pods of 5 geographically coherent traditional rivalries in a 20 team Big. That is my best #B1Gharder scenario.

Alright. Let's have fun and go B1G. Play 4 in your pod + 5 in a different pod rotating every year = 9 game conference schedule as planned by the B1G.
Who's going to get Delany, UConn, Virginia, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas into a room to make this happen?

Pod 1
Maryland
Penn State
Rutgers
UConn
Virginia

Pod2
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Purdue

Pod3
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Wisconsin

Pod4
Kansas
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas

 

[specialisthusky]

Alright. Let's have fun and go B1G. Play 4 in your pod + 5 in a different pod rotating every year = 9 game conference schedule as planned by the B1G.
Who's going to get Delany, UConn, Virginia, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas into a room to make this happen?

Pod 1
Maryland
Penn State
Rutgers
UConn
Virginia

Pod2
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Purdue

Pod3
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Wisconsin

Pod4
Kansas
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas

that's the dream right there

 

[pj]

Yes, dream conference. Rotating divisions -- the pods that are paired make up a division, teams will have played a round robin so you have a clear division champion.

 

[frankthetank]

UConn is at least a decade away from being viable for the B1G. The ACC has always been the only logical outcome. That's the problem here, as realignment has really come to a standstill. Unless something screwy happens with TV dictating things behind the scene, I can't see how it shakes up.

Well, I agree with you on this point. We've been talking about comparing various schools a lot here, but the biggest road block for UConn or anyone else that wants an invite to a power conference is actually inertia, where the Big Ten, ACC and Big 12 don't really want to do anything at all for the time being. UConn is one of the handful of schools in the country that actually *wants* instability in conference realignment. I still think the Big 12 is going to end up expanding to 12 in the next few years (after the new 4-team playoff system starts) and their picks are going to come from the AAC and/or MWC (and/or BYU), so the grant of rights arrangements aren't going to relevant there. That's where UConn realistically needs to focus its attention from my vantage point since I don't see the Big Ten or ACC proactively expanding for awhile.

 

[Adios]

I think 5-10 years is a reasonable. Sooner the better, you know?

These should still be a fun 5-10 years, though.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The Big 12 is ridicules.
The closest school is W Virginia who isn't even that close.
We never even established much of a rivalry with them.
Aren't they bitching about excessive travel?
They will expand but they have s bunch of better options than us.
I think Frank is trying to tell us we're screwed. But being a Midwestern doesn't want to hurt our feelings.
Butch 5 years is out of my planning horizon.
At my age I don't like to gamble on green bananas.




Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Adios]

http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2013/25/blockshotsuconn_2013_06_21_q.html

We're gaining ground in NYC in football. Someone is going to have to take us.