Big East v. Power 5 Challenge

[DefenseBB]

The AAC has a higher rating than the Big East. And higher attendance.

So, what data do you have to support the "higher attendance" claim? That is factually untrue on many different levels.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Big Ten Network. American sports network based in Chicago, Illinois. Wikipedia. American digital cable and satellite sports television channel that is owned by ESPN Inc., a joint venture between the Disney Media Networks division of The Walt Disney Company and the Hearst Communications (which owns the remaining 20

Big Ten Network and similar television channels | Frankensaurus.com

Big Ten Network and related information | Frankensaurus.com helping you find ideas, people, places and things to other similar topics.

frankensaurus.com

Don't know about that source. Big 10 Network is a Fox property. ACC & SEC and Big 12 on-line programming are ESPN property. The PAC is affiliated with no one, that's the problem.

 

[npignatjr]

So, what data do you have to support the "higher attendance" claim? That is factually untrue on many different levels.

The NCAA
Teams Sessions Attendance Avg.

1. Southeastern 4183
2. Big 12. 4046
3. Big Ten 3928
4. Pac-12 3574


5. Atlantic Coast 2973
6. AAC 2157
7. Mountain West 1712
8. Mid-American 1519
9. Missouri Valley 1381
10. Conference USA 1,243
11. Big East 1254
12. Big Sky 1203

 

[DefenseBB]

The NCAA
Teams Sessions Attendance Avg.

1. Southeastern 4183
2. Big 12. 4046
3. Big Ten 3928
4. Pac-12 3574


5. Atlantic Coast 2973
6. AAC 2157
7. Mountain West 1712
8. Mid-American 1519
9. Missouri Valley 1381
10. Conference USA 1,243
11. Big East 1254
12. Big Sky 1203

Um, what are you referencing-Conference Tournament data (you list "sessions")?
SEC had 7 sessions, and their avg was 7,282.1
Big 10 had only 2 sessions listed with attendance (7,749/8,709) for 7,749
ACC had 6 sessions with 6,425 avg
PAC12 had 6 sessions with 4,038 avg
The Big East had 1,254 on Friday (I was there), Session 2 on Sat noon, had 6,376, Session 3 Sat evening had 4,917; Sun had 6,287; Mon had 6,459 for an average of 4,968.2

The American is still occurring and they are not publishing their attendance on any of the box scores.

For the season, The AAC had an average 1,121.5 fans attend their 148 league games.

The Big East had 1,398 fans attend their 163 games. Also, given that the Northeast had more severe mask requirements, some schools were noticeably lower in attendance- St. John's, DePaul and Marquette.

That said, my data is from the Wika Tournament pages or the actual box scores of the tournament. The season averages are from each teams web site.

Given the long track record of what the conferences have listed over the years, my numbers are consistent.

I also did a 8-year review of both leagues since 2013-2020 as 2021 was a COVID year and 2022 is sort of inconclusive. The data shows that which ever conference UCONN is in, has higher attendance. The only School that increased its attendance in the AAC was UCF and that was due to hiring Coach ABE and the great success they have had. In 2013 & 2014, they had 460 and 720 fans per game. 2020 and 2022 showed 2,541 and 3,776. Pretty good. All the other schools were and still are struggling.

 

[sun]

The NCAA
Teams Sessions Attendance Avg.

1. Southeastern 4183
2. Big 12. 4046
3. Big Ten 3928
4. Pac-12 3574


5. Atlantic Coast 2973
6. AAC 2157
7. Mountain West 1712
8. Mid-American 1519
9. Missouri Valley 1381
10. Conference USA 1,243
11. Big East 1254
12. Big Sky 1203

I'm curious if those figures are from an NCAA PDF for the 2019 -20 WBB season before UConn rejoined the Big East?
UConn rejoined the Big East effective July 1, 2020.
I wouldn't ask if you had posted a reference link which helps others to see the source of the info.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/2021/Attend.pdf

 

[CB360]

The NCAA
Teams Sessions Attendance Avg.

6. AAC 2157

11. Big East 1254

I'm shocked that the AAC average 900+ more fans then the Big East?????

 

[EdSaid]

The Big10 network is only around 15 years old. It was started as a joint network with the conference and Fox after negotiations with ESPN went south. The union quickly became a cash cow, distributing $21 million to each school per year after 3-4 years. Today the distribution is over $50 million per school per year. One of the reasons for their huge success is the clout of the Big10's combined alumni. They have a large and influential population spread out across the entire country and they demanded their local cable companies carried the new Big10 Network. It also helps with the continued success of Big10 football and men's basketball. The network exploded and every other conference tried to replicate the success.

A few years ago Fox sold off a lot of its assets to Disney (who owns ESPN), but NOT the Big10 Network

 

[mbr33ct]

The NCAA
Teams Sessions Attendance Avg.

1. Southeastern 4183
2. Big 12. 4046
3. Big Ten 3928
4. Pac-12 3574


5. Atlantic Coast 2973
6. AAC 2157
7. Mountain West 1712
8. Mid-American 1519
9. Missouri Valley 1381
10. Conference USA 1,243
11. Big East 1254
12. Big Sky 1203

Took the liberty to go through stats from the AAC and Big East, time consuming but these are the attendances I saw under each schools stats.

Below are total attendances for home games only, (number of home games) and average per school home game. The math indicates the Big East with slightly higher average (1,398) for home games attendance/session than the AAC (1,121).

I'm just wondering if your data/info for the AAC (2157) could have been (1157). This figure would be more in range of what I have found. I went to each schools web site for my data/source.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Took the liberty to go through stats from the AAC and Big East, time consuming but these are the attendances I saw under each schools stats.

Below are total attendances for home games only, (number of home games) and average per school home game. The math indicates the Big East with slightly higher average (1,398) for home games attendance/session than the AAC (1,121).

I'm just wondering if your data/info for the AAC (2157) could have been (1157). This figure would be more in range of what I have found. I went to each schools web site for my data/source.

View attachment 74251

Not for nothing - but you would have to exclude UConn to realistically compare attendance by other teams in the league, which is really the primary point of talking about the American and Big East. UConn's attendance is completely out of proportion to the other schools in either league.

When comparing to other leagues as to "attendance" in general, then of course you would include UConn. Big East would not fare well against the Power 5 conferences. Against many other conferences, probably not so good.

 

[mbr33ct]

Not for nothing - but you would have to exclude UConn to realistically compare attendance by other teams in the league, which is really the primary point of talking about the American and Big East. UConn's attendance is completely out of proportion to the other schools in either league.

When comparing to other leagues as to "attendance" in general, then of course you would include UConn. Big East would not fare well against the Power 5 conferences. Against many other conferences, probably not so good.

I was replying to previous post regarding the attendance numbers from the AAC and Big East, to do that UConn needs to be included in that discussion. If one wants to pick and choose certain teams only, well go had it, I provided attendances for all all games. Again my post was only for the reply to AAC and Big East...not comparing to any other conferences....or did I really miss the point of previous poster had to say?

 

[ConnMotors]

Would adding other non-football schools to the conference help? No one likes expansion but could it help the Big East? Add a schools like Dayton and St. Louis. You bring in two markets. Plus Dayton is good Women's basketball.

 

[mbr33ct]

Um, what are you referencing-Conference Tournament data (you list "sessions")?
SEC had 7 sessions, and their avg was 7,282.1
Big 10 had only 2 sessions listed with attendance (7,749/8,709) for 7,749
ACC had 6 sessions with 6,425 avg
PAC12 had 6 sessions with 4,038 avg
The Big East had 1,254 on Friday (I was there), Session 2 on Sat noon, had 6,376, Session 3 Sat evening had 4,917; Sun had 6,287; Mon had 6,459 for an average of 4,968.2

The American is still occurring and they are not publishing their attendance on any of the box scores.

For the season, The AAC had an average 1,121.5 fans attend their 148 league games.

The Big East had 1,398 fans attend their 163 games. Also, given that the Northeast had more severe mask requirements, some schools were noticeably lower in attendance- St. John's, DePaul and Marquette.

That said, my data is from the Wika Tournament pages or the actual box scores of the tournament. The season averages are from each teams web site.

Given the long track record of what the conferences have listed over the years, my numbers are consistent.

I also did a 8-year review of both leagues since 2013-2020 as 2021 was a COVID year and 2022 is sort of inconclusive. The data shows that which ever conference UCONN is in, has higher attendance. The only School that increased its attendance in the AAC was UCF and that was due to hiring Coach ABE and the great success they have had. In 2013 & 2014, they had 460 and 720 fans per game. 2020 and 2022 showed 2,541 and 3,776. Pretty good. All the other schools were and still are struggling.

My apologies you have already mentioned what my post went on to say. I did not realize or didn't read through what others had to say to poster regarding this topic.

 

[sun]

The Providence women occasionally play at the Dunkin Donuts Center.

 

[sun]

The Creighton women play at the DJ Sokol Arena that has a capacity of 2950.
It also features a club level with a dining room & a bar.
But the Creighton men play at the CHI Health Center Omaha that has a BB capacity of 18,320.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I was replying to previous post regarding the attendance numbers from the AAC and Big East, to do that UConn needs to be included in that discussion. If one wants to pick and choose certain teams only, well go had it, I provided attendances for all all games. Again my post was only for the reply to AAC and Big East...not comparing to any other conferences....or did I really miss the point of previous poster had to say?

I think I've lost the point.

I consider most women's basketball attendance to be awful. That's just a reality. Looking back at 2019-2020, pre-Covid, 2 teams averaged over 10,000; 14 more over 5000, and by the time you get to the team ranked #50 (that year) it was Dayton at 2700. 183 schools under 1000 average; 16 conferences under 1000 average; a total average of 1500 for D1.

UConn is, I'm sure, consistently in the top 5 (4 that season). The best thing about UConn, from an attendance perspective, is that you also boost attendance at your away games from having fans all over and from general fans wanting to see UConn and taking advantage of an opportunity.

The Power 5 conferences (which certainly have some teams with poor attendance) lead because every conference has multiple teams that draw "well". Without looking, I wouldn't be shocked if every conference has at least one team in the top 10 if not more. For the season I looked at, the ACC, lowest ranked Power 5 conference, averaged 800 more fans per game than the American (which included UConn) and 1200 more fans per game than the next highest ranked conference - Mountain West.

While there are certainly exceptions in the other conferences, as someone said, arenas are often smaller, older; teams often have limited expectations and a limited fan base in general, never mind specifically for women's basketball. Thus, with few exceptions, attendance is fairly dreadful.

 

[nomdoux]

Top 25 players? Maddy is a little higher than that.


POINTS PER GAME
Through games March 3, 2022

RANK	NAME	TEAM	PPG
1	Caitlin Clark	Iowa	27.5
2	Maddy Siegrist	Villanova	26.5
3	Jasmine Dickey	Delaware	25.1
4	Dyaisha Fair	Buffalo	23.9
5	Cierra Hooks	Ohio	23.0
6	Ayoka Lee	Kansas St.	22.7
7	Jordyn Dawson	Akron	22.3
8	Makenna Marisa	Penn St.	22.2
9	NaLyssa Smith	Baylor	21.8
10	Jennifer Coleman	Navy	21.6

ESPN composite (Crème, Voepel, Phillippou) Top-25 players ranking in NCAAW Tournament placed Maddy Siegrist #24:

The top 25 players in the women's NCAA tournament

The national Player of the Year debate has been as intense as the title chase this season. So does Aliyah Boston or Caitlin Clark lead our rankings?

www.espn.com

 

[visitingcock]

I think I've lost the point.

I consider most women's basketball attendance to be awful. That's just a reality. Looking back at 2019-2020, pre-Covid, 2 teams averaged over 10,000; 14 more over 5000, and by the time you get to the team ranked #50 (that year) it was Dayton at 2700. 183 schools under 1000 average; 16 conferences under 1000 average; a total average of 1500 for D1.

UConn is, I'm sure, consistently in the top 5 (4 that season). The best thing about UConn, from an attendance perspective, is that you also boost attendance at your away games from having fans all over and from general fans wanting to see UConn and taking advantage of an opportunity.

The Power 5 conferences (which certainly have some teams with poor attendance) lead because every conference has multiple teams that draw "well". Without looking, I wouldn't be shocked if every conference has at least one team in the top 10 if not more. For the season I looked at, the ACC, lowest ranked Power 5 conference, averaged 800 more fans per game than the American (which included UConn) and 1200 more fans per game than the next highest ranked conference - Mountain West.

While there are certainly exceptions in the other conferences, as someone said, arenas are often smaller, older; teams often have limited expectations and a limited fan base in general, never mind specifically for women's basketball. Thus, with few exceptions, attendance is fairly dreadful.

Good job:

I think one factor to look at is alumni base. Teams like Power 5 teams like Texas, Michigan, etc etc have a huge alumni base which partially accounts for a huge fanbase (though the two are not synonymous). This generates better attendance.

As in most things especially related to wbb, UConn is a P-5 exception in that it is a State University, like most of the P-5 members, has a relatively high attendance, and generates a decent alumni size as opposed to a Cgreighton, DePaul etc, etc. And, of course, there is program success.

I have never looked at total enrollment of say SEC or Big 10 conferences versus total enrollment of a non P-5 conference but I would guess it it vastly exceeds any non P-5 conference. More grads - more enrollment - more potential fans.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Good job:

I think one factor to look at is alumni base. Teams like Power 5 teams like Texas, Michigan, etc etc have a huge alumni base which partially accounts for a huge fanbase (though the two are not synonymous). This generates better attendance.

As in most things especially related to wbb, UConn is a P-5 exception in that it is a State University, like most of the P-5 members, has a relatively high attendance, and generates a decent alumni size as opposed to a Cgreighton, DePaul etc, etc. And, of course, there is program success.

I have never looked at total enrollment of say SEC or Big 10 conferences versus total enrollment of a non P-5 conference but I would guess it it vastly exceeds any non P-5 conference. More grads - more enrollment - more potential fans.

Yes, very good point. For the larger state schools, such as are in the B1G midwest area, there is a tradition of a large general alumni / fan base for all things State U, perhaps largely generated by football I suppose. Just as for those schools, there is more of an urge to "attend State U" than you necessarily see in, for example, NJ, where Rutgers is often not a first choice and I suspect it is similar in other states.

There is also tradition in certain sports to be considered, for example, Arizona is a basketball school (as is UConn, primarily) and success helps. Nebraska has its large following in volleyball, as an example of another sport.

Its complicated, and the fact that the women's crowd is so radically different from the men's crowd seems to have confused marketing teams in some places. But give me the atmosphere of a crowded women's game over the crowd at a men's game any time.