Big East OOC thread

[DFW HOYA]

A key for the BE was to have their top brands compelling, meanwhile GTown and Nova look like broken down Pintos.

What exactly would you have Georgetown and Villanova do about it?

 

[fatlucy]

What exactly would you have Georgetown and Villanova do about it?

Hire better coaches. ‍♂️

 

[nelsonmuntz]

2023 the big east was garbage OOC. It took UConn losing in conference for everyone’s metrics to go up

Georgia Tech is letting a community college light it up right now. Should the ACC shut down all its basketball programs?

 

[MU in MKE]

Georgia Tech is letting a community college light it up right now. Should the ACC shut down all its basketball programs?

Maybe they'd rather join the B10 who went 2-2 yesterday against cupcakes and where both wins came within 2 possessions.


Good god there's a whole bunch of whiners here. Some of you cry worse than my toddler did when I didn't put the peanut butter on the correct side of her peanut butter and Jelly sandwich today. It's like some of you have never watched CBB outside your own conference.

Quick advice: Get over yourselves. BE is a top 3-4 bball conference and the other 3-4 top conferences Do. Not. Want. UConn.

Last year's 3 bid year sucked, but it was a fluke. Mid major's with experienced rosters and consistent teams will play relatively better than in past years compared to high major teams with a lot of transfers. It's part of our reality now. BE is not the only league to see this. Just take a deep breath and you'll be fine.

 

[jibsey]

Is it possible that some of these teams need time to jell as we looked lousy last night in the first half. Don’t write them off yet.
The BE games are never that easy.

 

[RuffRuff]

What exactly would you have Georgetown and Villanova do about it?

Win. They’re the two programs outside of UConn that have won titles. Gtown as long as they’ve stunk still has brand clout if they can figure it out.

BE Recruiting has been relatively ok. 2 top 50 kids coming in outside of UConn next year. 1 this past year. This years draft will have maybe 1 player not UConn in first round (Kam Jones), currently projected as a 2nd rounder. First team BE is made up of a bunch of old guys (Kalk, Kadari, Dixon). Next gen of BE talent looks pretty thin behind it. I’m sure players will surface but nothing jumping out on a national level right now.

Meanwhile buzz is palpable around this frosh class, and the next, which primarily sits in the big 4 conferences. They’ll become the next NBA brands, attracting more recruits for future.

BE bottom leaking oil in early OOC dropping league rating, 3 bids last year, it all eventually becomes a domino.

 

[BEFAN]

Marquette has a natty. I also think Xavier, Marquette, and Creighton have the potential to win one over the next few years as long as they keep their current coaches. I do see the potential for a haves/have-nots divide in the league given the NIL factor. I think we are already seeing that with Seton Hall.

 

[RuffRuff]

Marquette has a natty. I also think Xavier, Marquette, and Creighton have the potential to win one over the next few years as long as they keep their current coaches. I do see the potential for a haves/have-nots divide in the league given the NIL factor. I think we are already seeing that with Seton Hall.

Realized that after I posted, but you do have to draw a line somewhere or else you’re including San Fran and Texas El Paso in the convo. I draw it at the 64 team field.

I don’t see any of those schools winning one. Shaka doesn’t bring in enough talent and hasn’t shown any ability to win in the tourney. McDermott never has enough athletes.

 

[REB1094]

Kalkbrenner just hit a side-step pull up three pointer. Nothing but net

He's going to be funnnnnnnnn to watch this year

 

[WlfdHusky]

Kalkbrenner just hit a side-step pull up three pointer. Nothing but net

He's going to be funnnnnnnnn to watch this year

Ya but, 13 minutes into the game and Creighton tied with FDU. Kalk looks really good on O thes year though.

 

[MU in MKE]

Realized that after I posted, but you do have to draw a line somewhere or else you’re including San Fran and Texas El Paso in the convo. I draw it at the 64 team field.

I don’t see any of those schools winning one. Shaka doesn’t bring in enough talent and hasn’t shown any ability to win in the tourney. McDermott never has enough athletes.

So, just to get this straight, you forgot about another team having a natty, you don't know the year the tournament went to 64 teams (it was year after Georgetown's Natty, so they wouldn't count either), you're not aware of most of the future NBA prospects in the conference outside of UConn's, you seem unaware that (other than very top prospects) a top 50 prospect has statistically the same potential as any top 100/maybe even 150 player, and you arbitrarily decide not to count upperclassmen for top players in the conference.

But yet we should take your word for it regarding the future of the conference?

You just sound like sour grapes my man. You can twist your own reasoning and mental gymnastics for disliking the BE however you want, but it certainly doesn't lend you any credibility when you share it here.

 

[gsmooth]

This is the Big East's best recruiting year in a while. Creighton, Providence, and Georgetown all had top 50 recruits per 247 aside from UConn. Via the composite, 8 different Big East schools had a top 100 recruit. Only Depaul, Butler, and Seton Hall did not.

You beat me to it, auror. The Big East has done well with recruiting including McAndrews with Creighton and Oswun Erwhunse (spelling) from Putnam Science Academy going to Providence.

 

[Dibbie]

Kalkbrenner shooting 90% from the floor this season!

 

[shizzle787]

Creighton won.

20-3. Three bad losses: Villanova, Butler, and Seton Hall

 

[RuffRuff]

So, just to get this straight, you forgot about another team having a natty, you don't know the year the tournament went to 64 teams (it was year after Georgetown's Natty, so they wouldn't count either), you're not aware of most of the future NBA prospects in the conference outside of UConn's, you seem unaware that (other than very top prospects) a top 50 prospect has statistically the same potential as any top 100/maybe even 150 player, and you arbitrarily decide not to count upperclassmen for top players in the conference.

But yet we should take your word for it regarding the future of the conference?

You just sound like sour grapes my man. You can twist your own reasoning and mental gymnastics for disliking the BE however you want, but it certainly doesn't lend you any credibility when you share it here.

I appreciate what’s clearly a very personal fact check, but would I have sour grapes about? That we’ve outgrown a conference. There’s a variety of reasons, primarily economic, that support that outside of the overall hoops quality. It’s a view of the state of affairs, nothing to get sour about. The descending quality of hoops is just a more visible factor. 3 bids is fairly suggestive of a conference moving in the wrong direction. Whether it was right or wrong, it was the perception of a committee.

There are probably 4-5 teams in this conference that are autowins for any top 40 type team. Nova, Butler, DePaul, Gtown, Hall are basically buy games. That’s half the conference. Is it gonna flip or just become more of the norm? I vote the latter based on how things are moving across the sport.

Take a look at the mock drafts for the next couple years - you’ll see it filled with euros and freshmen. Does a BE team outside UConn even have a chance at landing top 25 kids? Those are the kids that bring a buzz into the league, as they have a wow factor and you can anticipate them in the lottery. They’re filling up Big12, SEC and ACC rosters.

Once Kam graduates does MU have a single NBA prospect anywhere on the roster?

I appreciate the micro historical pic on MU. I do know they won one (RIP Al) and very much know the year of 64 (Gtwon playing in the first). The macro and more relevant view is that Gtown has a bigger brand, as it peaked with great players in the a more substantial period of college hoops (same reason the Lakers and Celtics remain what they are today).

Here’s some proof for you:

College basketball’s biggest global brands

 

[Fan1978]

Georgia Tech is letting a community college light it up right now. Should the ACC shut down all its basketball programs?

N florida may just be good. They also won at south carolina

 

[MU in MKE]

I appreciate what’s clearly a very personal fact check, but would I have sour grapes about? That we’ve outgrown a conference. There’s a variety of reasons, primarily economic, that support that outside of the overall hoops quality. It’s a view of the state of affairs, nothing to get sour about. The descending quality of hoops is just a more visible factor. 3 bids is fairly suggestive of a conference moving in the wrong direction. Whether it was right or wrong, it was the perception of a committee.

There are probably 4-5 teams in this conference that are autowins for any top 40 type team. Nova, Butler, DePaul, Gtown, Hall are basically buy games. That’s half the conference. Is it gonna flip or just become more of the norm? I vote the latter based on how things are moving across the sport.

Take a look at the mock drafts for the next couple years - you’ll see it filled with euros and freshmen. Does a BE team outside UConn even have a chance at landing top 25 kids? Those are the kids that bring a buzz into the league, as they have a wow factor and you can anticipate them in the lottery. They’re filling up Big12, SEC and ACC rosters.

Once Kam graduates does MU have a single NBA prospect anywhere on the roster?

I appreciate the micro historical pic on MU. I do know they won one (RIP Al) and very much know the year of 64 (Gtwon playing in the first). The macro and more relevant view is that Gtown has a bigger brand, as it peaked with great players in the a more substantial period of college hoops (same reason the Lakers and Celtics remain what they are today).

Here’s some proof for you:

College basketball’s biggest global brands

Heck yeah that was a personal fact check. I love the Big East, it's not only a top 3-4 performing conference, it's the best league for college basketball fans!

However, you're so all over the place, I can't sit and respond to all your nonsense. But fact is, you said the BE is closer to the A10 than the other high majors. That is ridiculously false. You continue to cite incorrect facts and/or show that you know little about the other teams in the conference or even the cbb landscape in general. You are indeed sour that UConn is not in a football power conference. I get it, that blows if you think of UConn's football team as a high major team.

Point is, you need to try to be more objective and accept the fact that UConn's brand is basketball and the BE brand is high quality and entertaining basketball. Nova and Georgetown will eventually figure it out. Their budgets are too big and their fanbase is there, even if dormant for Georgetown. Not to mention that Creighton and Marquette both are top 20 teams in spend and attendance.

Your point is that UConn has outgrown the conference and it's "closer to the A10" than a P4. My point is you clearly have not paid attention to other schools in the league, let alone what is really going on in the other conferences. (Btw, nice trying to hide your gaff on Georgetown natty being during the 64 team era by pointing out they were in the natty the year it expanded. However, if you're going to do that, you need to then count Butlers two natty games.)



And to throw a shoutout to my MU team by answering your question, yes there are other NBA prospects on MU's roster after Kam. Chase Ross will be in the league and keep an eye out for our freshman named Demarius Owens. You don't need to be a 5 star burger boy to get drafted. Also, to another one of your points, Shaka "Can't win in the tournament despite having gone to the final four" Smart has sent guys to the league every year since taking the job at Texas. That just goes to prove that recruiting top 25 prospects is not a requirement for a good team or conference.

 

[YearoftheHusky]

Georgia Tech is letting a community college light it up right now. Should the ACC shut down all its basketball programs?

Whoa now. Swoop is my school! And also ready took down the cocks.

 

[RuffRuff]

Heck yeah that was a personal fact check. I love the Big East, it's not only a top 3-4 performing conference, it's the best league for college basketball fans!

However, you're so all over the place, I can't sit and respond to all your nonsense. But fact is, you said the BE is closer to the A10 than the other high majors. That is ridiculously false. You continue to cite incorrect facts and/or show that you know little about the other teams in the conference or even the cbb landscape in general. You are indeed sour that UConn is not in a football power conference. I get it, that blows if you think of UConn's football team as a high major team.

Point is, you need to try to be more objective and accept the fact that UConn's brand is basketball and the BE brand is high quality and entertaining basketball. Nova and Georgetown will eventually figure it out. Their budgets are too big and their fanbase is there, even if dormant for Georgetown. Not to mention that Creighton and Marquette both are top 20 teams in spend and attendance.

Your point is that UConn has outgrown the conference and it's "closer to the A10" than a P4. My point is you clearly have not paid attention to other schools in the league, let alone what is really going on in the other conferences. (Btw, nice trying to hide your gaff on Georgetown natty being during the 64 team era by pointing out they were in the natty the year it expanded. However, if you're going to do that, you need to then count Butlers two natty games.)



And to throw a shoutout to my MU team by answering your question, yes there are other NBA prospects on MU's roster after Kam. Chase Ross will be in the league and keep an eye out for our freshman named Demarius Owens. You don't need to be a 5 star burger boy to get drafted. Also, to another one of your points, Shaka "Can't win in the tournament despite having gone to the final four" Smart has sent guys to the league every year since taking the job at Texas. That just goes to prove that recruiting top 25 prospects is not a requirement for a good team or conference.

Directionally yeah, moving closer to an A10 than it is a P4. Open your eyes and look where the money, and recruits, are going, and the why. As long as the tourney has existed it’s a known fact to win the whole thing, you need NBA talent. Then it becomes simple economics:

Recruit top kids - takes brand and NIL
Develop second tier kids - these kids can opt to leave for paydays elsewhere if they do develop.
Top young coaches that win anything of significance in March, programs with more money will court
Odds are stacked

Always loved the BE and I appreciate the love. But it’s clear as day that things are changing fast. Owens is a nice looking 80th ranked recruit that no one is talking about and hasn’t played a minute so far. Not sure how needle moving that is in terms of national perception. I haven’t seen a thing on Chase Ross that says NBA talent. It’s not Marquette I’m worried about anyway, it’s mainly the other 80% of the league. Marquette has done a decent job getting guys to the league and has some equity there, Shaka seems wed to the school and will keep continuity for awhile. These younger coaches that have the grandfathered into the current era can possibly hold court for awhile, it’s the next gen that will see it as a stepping stone. Will be really curious to see what an English would do if he saw success at PC, guess is take the next big thing.

 

[Fan1978]

Directionally yeah, moving closer to an A10 than it is a P4. Open your eyes and look where the money, and recruits, are going, and the why. As long as the tourney has existed it’s a known fact to win the whole thing, you need NBA talent. Then it becomes simple economics:

Recruit top kids - takes brand and NIL
Develop second tier kids - these kids can opt to leave for paydays elsewhere if they do develop.
Top young coaches that win anything of significance in March, programs with more money will court
Odds are stacked

Always loved the BE and I appreciate the love. But it’s clear as day that things are changing fast. Owens is a nice looking 80th ranked recruit that no one is talking about and hasn’t played a minute so far. Not sure how needle moving that is in terms of national perception. I haven’t seen a thing on Chase Ross that says NBA talent. It’s not Marquette I’m worried about anyway, it’s mainly the other 80% of the league. Marquette has done a decent job getting guys to the league and has some equity there, Shaka seems wed to the school and will keep continuity for awhile. These younger coaches that have the grandfathered into the current era can possibly hold court for awhile, it’s the next gen that will see it as a stepping stone. Will be really curious to see what an English would do if he saw success at PC, guess is take the next big thing.

The a10 is abysmal, 1 bid league. They were dreadful last year and will be again this year. Most of the good players transfer up every year now. Depaul would have a decent shot to win the a10.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Haven’t fact checked this but Russ is reliable. This is bad…very bad.

 

[ec33]

Haven’t fact checked this but Russ is reliable. This is bad…very bad.

The season is one week old.

But the good news is that Villanova is that much closer to trying to find a competent coach. Villanova returning to the top of the league will go a long way to fortifying the conference. The more they hit bottom the better.

And Cooley will get Georgetown to at least his PC-level teams. He has the DMV to recruit (after repairing all the bridges).

 

[alexd]

Haven’t fact checked this but Russ is reliable. This is bad…very bad.

It could be accurate....
S hall 106
But. 104
Grown. 97
Depaul 167

 

[MU in MKE]

Directionally yeah, moving closer to an A10 than it is a P4. Open your eyes and look where the money, and recruits, are going, and the why. As long as the tourney has existed it’s a known fact to win the whole thing, you need NBA talent. Then it becomes simple economics:

Recruit top kids - takes brand and NIL
Develop second tier kids - these kids can opt to leave for paydays elsewhere if they do develop.
Top young coaches that win anything of significance in March, programs with more money will court
Odds are stacked

Always loved the BE and I appreciate the love. But it’s clear as day that things are changing fast. Owens is a nice looking 80th ranked recruit that no one is talking about and hasn’t played a minute so far. Not sure how needle moving that is in terms of national perception. I haven’t seen a thing on Chase Ross that says NBA talent. It’s not Marquette I’m worried about anyway, it’s mainly the other 80% of the league. Marquette has done a decent job getting guys to the league and has some equity there, Shaka seems wed to the school and will keep continuity for awhile. These younger coaches that have the grandfathered into the current era can possibly hold court for awhile, it’s the next gen that will see it as a stepping stone. Will be really curious to see what an English would do if he saw success at PC, guess is take the next big thing.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree and see how it plays out. I think the BE, minus DePaul, fanbases are too passionate to let the schools slip for too long and NIL isn't as big of a concern as you think it is because most of the schools have some big benefactors behind them.

(btw, the Owens tip wasn't b/c he's on anyone's nba radar, this was me just giving an early heads up)

Haven’t fact checked this but Russ is reliable. This is bad…very bad.

But at the same time, if you double it to 12 worst, 6 of them are ACC (unless I missed someone). Or better yet, of 17 high major teams worse than 75 kenpom, 8 of them are ACC. See, could be worse!

Seriously though, you have to let Kenpom play out because of how he builds in previous year results.

 

[BeMo14]

Haven’t fact checked this but Russ is reliable. This is bad…very bad.

B12 Lowest - Oklahoma State (90)
B10 Lowest - Washington (81)
SEC Lowest - Vanderbilt (94)

Bottom 6
97 - Georgetown (BE)
104 - Butler (BE)
106 - Seton Hall (BE)
134 - California (ACC)
146 - Boston College (ACC)
167 - DePaul (BE)

Still early - but not a great start