Big East basketball- why isn’t it growing like the rest of wbb?

[HopJim]

Yes across the board.

Fans are part of it. As you say, you can woo an audience, but lets not minimize how absolutely difficult it can be. As my wife ranted in the years when we were following a really good, Sweet 16 and up women's basketball team at Rutgers - attendance was usually less than half an arena while a pretty miserable men's team sold out. Even at Arizona - where there was a base of women's fans from the Joan Bonvicini years - who had the support of local basketball god Lute Olsen - attendance rarely topped a couple thousand in the lean years and grew to 5000 plus at a "basketball school" only with success.

One demonstrable difference is the revenue, of course, as women's basketball tickets are less than the men virtually everywhere, and the earnings from the Men's March Madness isn't on the same order of magnitude as the women's tourney.

Money helps and a decision to put it to women's sports helps, but of course that is often donor's choice. But how to attract an audience (it isn't all men) that would rather watch "real" "men's" sports than what they perceive emotionally as inferior women's sports is a whole additional dynamic.

Good post. If the stands are empty, unlikely the Administration will invest. The amount of press and social media also has an effect. While living in the Dallas area, I got to watch UConn every year. Even though this was at the peak of UConn's 111 consecutive win streak (we were at SMU when they broke the record at 91 wins), this event was barely mentioned in any press outlet. Not unusual for women's sports around the US. Empty stands and minimal public mention doesn't get the alumni excited, in turn ensuring the lack of University interest.

 

[HuskyNan]

Perhaps I am out of line in asking but : Doesn’t this board/forum Contribute to the problem by somewhat ignoring Big East wbb?

I have frequently wondered why there is no annual thread regarding the Big East wbb on this board or even in the general forum. While things like standings are rarely in doubt regarding UConn, there should be interest in who’s 2 or 3 or so and has a shot or shots at NCAA bids. Who are the best non-UConn players in the conference? Etc, etc.

I have been tempted to open a “Big East WBB 2025-26” thread like those of the P-4 Conference threads ( on this board rather than the General). But, I think it would be overstepping my bounds. Please feel free to delete this post without offense being taken if you feel it is inappropriate for an outsider.

There are some persistent drum beaters that insist on putting the Big East down and they suck up most of the oxygen in the room. But those of us who watch other BEast teams play non-UConn games can see some incremental improvements here and there. I try to point out how some teams are doing better and pretty much get shouted down by those who, apparently, know everything and don’t need those darn facts. So I stopped posting about the league.

I know there are infrequent posters who get intimidated by the more aggressive posters and while they might chime in with comments about UConn’s BEast sister teams, don’t want to expose themselves to the scorn and ridicule that seems to erupt when someone tries to discuss the conference. Hence, no threads

 

[visitingcock]

There are some persistent drum beaters that insist on putting the Big East down and they suck up most of the oxygen in the room. But those of us who watch other BEast teams play non-UConn games can see some incremental improvements here and there. I try to point out how some teams are doing better and pretty much get shouted down by those who, apparently, know everything and don’t need those darn facts. So I stopped posting about the league.

I know there are infrequent posters who get intimidated by the more aggressive posters and while they might chime in with comments about UConn’s BEast sister teams, don’t want to expose themselves to the scorn and ridicule that seems to erupt when someone tries to discuss the conference. Hence, no threads

Sad. I dislike the truths contained in your reply but thank you for it. I pick up some BE awareness through your posts (and a few others) but a central thread would be nice. In my mind, the BE is the P-5 conference of women's basketball. Other than UConn, when/who was the last non-P-4 who made it to the elite 8?

If I could relegate about 23 conferences to D-I(B), the Big East would be the 5th selection out of 8 conference who would remain D-I(A).

Good luck with Providence though you won't need it. Despite the talent disparity, they played us tougher than a couple of P-4s and a few conference leaders of non-p's

 

[FanSince17]

I think when it comes to sports, being non denominational is a significant advantage. Are there some people that will never become fans of a catholic school because of their religious affiliation? Of course! No matter what religious affiliation, it is a subset of the general population that limits the potential fan base, and possibly the players they recruit.

Because they don't generally have football teams, catholic schools are not sports schools in general. If attending a variety of top sporting events during the year is very important to a potential student, they may not go there, so the student body is not as sports oriented in general.

The big recent changes are NIL and the ability to transfer in the portal without waiting a year. We have gone from players largely choosing a school for 4 years, based heavily on basketball issues like fit, style, coaching etc. to free agency every year and "show me the money".

I feel sorry for many of the Big East coaches. It has become the Power 4 and a big drop off to everyone else. There used to be more room for high mid major conferences to have a couple of teams that were competitive with the power conferences, but i think those days are disappearing.

If you look at the top 100 recruiting lists it is pretty much Power 4 plus Uconn, with just a handful of players going anywhere else. If you are a Big East coach that recruits a player outside that group, but develops them into a top 100 player in their class, you are likely to lose them to a top school for monetary reasons only. Just the way it is, the gap between Power 4 and everybody else is getting bigger, and the Big East is everybody else except for Uconn.

As for the current popularity of the sport, there are several types of fans. In the major cities there are many fans that are hard core and root for all of the teams good or bad. Then there are fans that only jump on the bandwagon for a great team or interesting star or personality. Women's basketball attracts more of the later, but is making more inroads to the general population.

The Caitlin Clark effect has been truly amazing. Her impact on attendance, TV ratings, and the next collective bargaining agreement has been huge. Those were largely Johnny come lately fans following a new celebrity, more than women's basketball fans in general. But those new fans may say, hey this women's basketball is pretty interesting, and start to follow other teams in college and professionally.

With Caitlin and Angel Reese entering the W as social media stars two years ago, Paige this last year, and Azzi and others on their way, the possibility of raising awareness of women's basketball as a major sport with the general population is there. In college, however, i feel that interest will still remain mostly with the power schools.

Slight tangent: I wonder if these factors/trials and tribulations contribute to Geno not retiring. He is able to maintain UConn excellence in this environment. If Geno left, it could go South quickly! (Hope that’s ok to say)
UCLA after Wooden- Bartow, Cunningham. Different environment and they still dropped precipitously.
Heir apparent- it’s going to mean a ton! Can football regroup quickly? I vote for Sue Bird.

 

[FanSince17]

Sad. I dislike the truths contained in your reply but thank you for it. I pick up some BE awareness through your posts (and a few others) but a central thread would be nice. In my mind, the BE is the P-5 conference of women's basketball. Other than UConn, when/who was the last non-P-4 who made it to the elite 8?

If I could relegate about 23 conferences to D-I(B), the Big East would be the 5th selection out of 8 conference who would remain D-I(A).

Good luck with Providence though you won't need it. Despite the talent disparity, they played us tougher than a couple of P-4s and a few conference leaders of non-p's

Didn’t Creighton get to the Elite 8 the year before last.
I’m joking: what if Power4 got 6 years of eligibility instead of 4?

 

[HuskyNan]

Sad. I dislike the truths contained in your reply but thank you for it. I pick up some BE awareness through your posts (and a few others) but a central thread would be nice. In my mind, the BE is the P-5 conference of women's basketball. Other than UConn, when/who was the last non-P-4 who made it to the elite 8?

If I could relegate about 23 conferences to D-I(B), the Big East would be the 5th selection out of 8 conference who would remain D-I(A).

Good luck with Providence though you won't need it. Despite the talent disparity, they played us tougher than a couple of P-4s and a few conference leaders of non-p's

Subjective analysis - Creme’s Bracketology, polls, etc - consider the Big East a bad league (many people think any non-P4 is a bad league)
Objective analysis - the Big East is 5th best of 33 conferences per Massey and Villanova is the only non-UConn, non-P4 team in the top 25 Torvik rankings and top 30 in NET rankings

https://barttorvik.com/ncaaw/?year=2026&sort=&hteam=&t2value=&conlimit=All&state=All&begin=20251101&end=20260501&top=0&revquad=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0#

 

[Skeets]

Football is the Primary Reason why the Big East aren't able to improve their Women's Teams. There's so much more dollars avail that SEC and BIG are able to provide to their other Sports Programs. The ACC and B12 while not having the same dollars avail are able to provide more support to Women's teams. Besides the Football money I'm sure the amount of dollars that Boosters provide is significantly higher at Football Schools.

The advantage that UConn has is they've had a Great Women's BB Team since the 90's and have a Dynamic Head Coach in Geno. Geno has also been smart enough to schedule high profile games on an annual basis and that helps provide publicity to his program.

As far as football and basketball are concerned, UConn could be the exception that proves the rule. It is possible to have an excellent basketball program without a (good) football team.

 

[sun]

There really isn't anything wrong with BE WBB. It's where it's always been since the BE break up and right where it's supposed to be. Why would anyone expect much more from such small schools? Even high school sports divisions are based on the size of the schools.
The problem is with the expectations of UConn fans of which I include myself.
I didn't watch the whole game at first because my viewing got interrupted. But I went back and watched the replay nonetheless even though I wasn't intending to due to the poor competition.
Sure I'd like to see Gandy, Fisher and others play more minutes to make the game more interesting.
But I'm not going to blame Geno for the demise of BE WBB and uninteresting games, or blame BE WBB schools.
UConn fans need to lower their expectations and hope for the day when UConn joins a better conference.
Then if UConn doesn't always play so perfectly the fans can blame it on Geno's retirement instead of belonging to the cupcake leagues that we have joined ever since the BE breakup.

 

[Boreifs]

There are some persistent drum beaters that insist on putting the Big East down and they suck up most of the oxygen in the room. But those of us who watch other BEast teams play non-UConn games can see some incremental improvements here and there. I try to point out how some teams are doing better and pretty much get shouted down by those who, apparently, know everything and don’t need those darn facts. So I stopped posting about the league.

I know there are infrequent posters who get intimidated by the more aggressive posters and while they might chime in with comments about UConn’s BEast sister teams, don’t want to expose themselves to the scorn and ridicule that seems to erupt when someone tries to discuss the conference. Hence, no threads

A shame for sure; Big East basketball is almost always very entertaining. However, there is almost never a crowd in the stands, even for the top teams.

 

[HuskyNan]

There really isn't anything wrong with BE WBB. It's where it's always been since the BE break up and right where it's supposed to be. Why would anyone expect much more from such small schools? Even high school sports divisions are based on the size of the schools.
The problem is with the expectations of UConn fans of which I include myself.
I didn't watch the whole game at first because my viewing got interrupted. But I went back and watched the replay nonetheless even though I wasn't intending to due to the poor competition.
Sure I'd like to see Gandy, Fisher and others play more minutes to make the game more interesting.
But I'm not going to blame Geno for the demise of BE WBB and uninteresting games, or blame BE WBB schools.
UConn fans need to lower their expectations and hope for the day when UConn joins a better conference.
Then if UConn doesn't always play so perfectly the fans can blame it on Geno's retirement instead of belonging to the cupcake leagues that we have joined ever since the BE breakup.

If St John’s, Villanova and, occasionally Georgetown, could be in and out of the rankings pre-breakup, why can’t they post-breakup? A big reason is coaching. Kim Barnes-Arico (St John’s) is now at Michigan, Harry Perretta (Villanova) is retired, and Terri Williams-Flournoy (Georgetown) left to go to Auburn. As there began to be more money available in the men’s game, resources were diverted in that direction.

UConn leaving the BEast also meant the television revenue decreased, leaving less for the BEast remnants. Some cynical folks feel ESPN engineered the breakup so it could create football superleagues and free up cash for the rights to show them. I don’t know the truth of it but I do know the money dried up for the BEast and women’s hoops and the Olympic sports got the worst of it

 

[cancontent]

If St John’s, Villanova and, occasionally Georgetown, could be in and out of the rankings pre-breakup, why can’t they post-breakup? A big reason is coaching. Kim Barnes-Arico (St John’s) is now at Michigan, Harry Perretta (Villanova) is retired, and Terri Williams-Flournoy (Georgetown) left to go to Auburn. As there began to be more money available in the men’s game, resources were diverted in that direction.

UConn leaving the BEast also meant the television revenue decreased, leaving less for the BEast remnants. Some cynical folks feel ESPN engineered the breakup so it could create football superleagues and free up cash for the rights to show them. I don’t know the truth of it but I do know the money dried up for the BEast and women’s hoops and the Olympic sports got the worst of it

While I get why people think that, the demise of the conference was much more than just ESPN being involved, if they were. The decision to chase after the football money and expanding well outside of the original Big East is what really caused the conferences demise in my opinion.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

There are some persistent drum beaters that insist on putting the Big East down and they suck up most of the oxygen in the room. But those of us who watch other BEast teams play non-UConn games can see some incremental improvements here and there. I try to point out how some teams are doing better and pretty much get shouted down by those who, apparently, know everything and don’t need those darn facts. So I stopped posting about the league.

I know there are infrequent posters who get intimidated by the more aggressive posters and while they might chime in with comments about UConn’s BEast sister teams, don’t want to expose themselves to the scorn and ridicule that seems to erupt when someone tries to discuss the conference. Hence, no threads

Regarding the BE as a conference - the teams remaining from the oBE were, after all, in a Power Conference at the time. The "classic" version of the A10 and Conference USA, before numerous realignments left them practically unrecognizable, and the new (at the time) American were all solid leagues in the tier immediately below the Power Conferences.

As a conference, I feel that it has slid into that "top tier" below Power Conference level. It is clearly the best conference not in the Power 4 and as others have said, is inhibited mostly by financial considerations related to not having football and their history as universities.

 

[FanSince17]

Regarding the BE as a conference - the teams remaining from the oBE were, after all, in a Power Conference at the time. The "classic" version of the A10 and Conference USA, before numerous realignments left them practically unrecognizable, and the new (at the time) American were all solid leagues in the tier immediately below the Power Conferences.

As a conference, I feel that it has slid into that "top tier" below Power Conference level. It is clearly the best conference not in the Power 4 and as others have said, is inhibited mostly by financial considerations related to not having football and their history as universities.

Nice! How many top-tier players (anybody that can play significantly for a top 25 team and how many could be a difference-maker for a final-4 team) are there now compared to say, 2014?
Is it possible that the number of good players hasn't grown? So with NIL and stockpiling talent at the top, maybe there just aren't so many good teams.
I thought talent was spreading, so I didn't understand why that 2nd tier isn't better.
Imagine being a recruited high school player, wanting to be a student-athlete at a good school, living the whole college experience. Aren't there tons of solid 2nd tier players out there?

 

[JoePgh]

None of the explanations offered above adequately explain why men's basketball in the Big East remains much closer to P-4 levels than women's basketball is (outside of UConn).

If the lack of football revenue is the root problem, then why hasn't it caused MBB to be non-competitive with the P-4?

Marquette, Creighton, St. John's, Villanova, and sometimes Georgetown and Xavier have had nationally competitive MBB teams. Why isn't the same thing possible for WBB?

 

[FanSince17]

None of the explanations offered above adequately explain why men's basketball in the Big East remains much closer to P-4 levels than women's basketball is (outside of UConn).

If the lack of football revenue is the root problem, then why hasn't it caused MBB to be non-competitive with the P-4?

Marquette, Creighton, St. John's, Villanova, and sometimes Georgetown and Xavier have had nationally competitive MBB teams. Why isn't the same thing possible for WBB?

That's it! I'm not dumb for wondering why the WBE is not as good

 

[Zonepress]

If St John’s, Villanova and, occasionally Georgetown, could be in and out of the rankings pre-breakup, why can’t they post-breakup? A big reason is coaching. Kim Barnes-Arico (St John’s) is now at Michigan, Harry Perretta (Villanova) is retired, and Terri Williams-Flournoy (Georgetown) left to go to Auburn. As there began to be more money available in the men’s game, resources were diverted in that direction.

UConn leaving the BEast also meant the television revenue decreased, leaving less for the BEast remnants. Some cynical folks feel ESPN engineered the breakup so it could create football superleagues and free up cash for the rights to show them. I don’t know the truth of it but I do know the money dried up for the BEast and women’s hoops and the Olympic sports got the worst of it

imho denise Dillon is certainly the equal
of Harry Peretta except for longevity

 

[Gael]

I'm not sure I buy the stated premise of this topic—namely, that BE WCBB (other than UConn) isn't growing like the rest of WCBB.

As an aside: Is WCBB, in general, growing? I pass, because I know not.

My only point will be that the BE teams other than UConn seem to me to get about as much "attention" as the other 330 or so D1 WCBB programs that are not ranked consistently in the top 35 or so.

By "attention," I mean reporting in national mainstream media, mentions on social media and discussion sites, games shown on TV channels, games streamed on big streaming services, financial support, commitments from recruits ranked in the top 100, and rabid fans in their bleachers.

In all such cases and in all such events, the realities are "not much" and "hardly any," not only for the BEC schools but for all those 330 schools who are not in the "top ranked 35." None of these schools gets top dollars, top recruits or top attention for their WBB teams. They never have. And now, in the execrable era of big NIL and big other big money—over, under, and baked into the table—they never will.

 

[Skeets]

If St John’s, Villanova and, occasionally Georgetown, could be in and out of the rankings pre-breakup, why can’t they post-breakup? A big reason is coaching. Kim Barnes-Arico (St John’s) is now at Michigan, Harry Perretta (Villanova) is retired, and Terri Williams-Flournoy (Georgetown) left to go to Auburn. As there began to be more money available in the men’s game, resources were diverted in that direction.

UConn leaving the BEast also meant the television revenue decreased, leaving less for the BEast remnants. Some cynical folks feel ESPN engineered the breakup so it could create football superleagues and free up cash for the rights to show them. I don’t know the truth of it but I do know the money dried up for the BEast and women’s hoops and the Olympic sports got the worst of it

That is an excellent question. Even when the BE had good football schools, these schools didn't play football, yet the put decent basketball teams on the court. What gives? The law of gravity where money, talent, coaching, etc. get such up by the larger, football playing schools? Again, UConn is the exception.

As far as conspiracy goes, I usually don't subscribe, except when money is involved. It talks. Follow the money.

 

[Skeets]

imho denise Dillon is certainly the equal
of Harry Peretta except for longevity

I don't know too much about Dillon, but Harry had Geno's number. Rumor has it that they were goofing around playing 1-on-1 when Geno torn his ACL many years ago.

It's still painful remembering when Harry beat Geno during the Taurasi era down at the RAC in the BE tournament. Harry's kids hit all of their shots, UConn couldn't hit water if they threw the ball in the ocean. DT tried taking over the game at the end, but she couldn't pull it off. A very long, very disappointed drive home... Bah, it's still painful.

Back on topic, hopefully this never happens again in the BE in my lifetime.

 

[Bald Husky]

Sad. I dislike the truths contained in your reply but thank you for it. I pick up some BE awareness through your posts (and a few others) but a central thread would be nice. In my mind, the BE is the P-5 conference of women's basketball. Other than UConn, when/who was the last non-P-4 who made it to the elite 8?

If I could relegate about 23 conferences to D-I(B), the Big East would be the 5th selection out of 8 conference who would remain D-I(A).

Good luck with Providence though you won't need it. Despite the talent disparity, they played us tougher than a couple of P-4s and a few conference leaders of non-p's

It's hard to talk about the other Big East schools. We learn about the good players as we see them, but if you look at the national media there is never an article about a team or player in the Big East not associated with UConn. Creighton and Marquette have had mentioned in the past as they were ranked by the AP, but once they left the list, they become irrelevant. I feel sorry for some of the coaches, men and women who give their all and are not rewarded by their university. Their dream is to be poached by another conference, just as many of our leagues very good players have. Although I hated the league, playing in the AAC was more enjoyable than playing some off these BE teams. Some, not all. One other thing, for the first time for as long as I can remember, I was so bored with the Butler game that I fell asleep. Terribly boring, but I stuck it out until the end because they are my Huskies. BTW, I recorded it and watched it at around 8:30, just to say that I didn't fall asleep at 4:00. LOL

 

[HuskyNan]

None of the explanations offered above adequately explain why men's basketball in the Big East remains much closer to P-4 levels than women's basketball is (outside of UConn).

If the lack of football revenue is the root problem, then why hasn't it caused MBB to be non-competitive with the P-4?

Marquette, Creighton, St. John's, Villanova, and sometimes Georgetown and Xavier have had nationally competitive MBB teams. Why isn't the same thing possible for WBB?

Because BEast schools are funding men’s bball at the expense of wbb and Olympic sports

 

[Zonepress]

I don't know too much about Dillon, but Harry had Geno's number. Rumor has it that they were goofing around playing 1-on-1 when Geno torn his ACL many years ago.

It's still painful remembering when Harry beat Geno during the Taurasi era down at the RAC in the BE tournament. Harry's kids hit all of their shots, UConn couldn't hit water if they threw the ball in the ocean. DT tried taking over the game at the end, but she couldn't pull it off. A very long, very disappointed drive home... Bah, it's still painful.

Back on topic, hopefully this never happens again in the BE in my lifetime.

villanova beat uconn at the civic center 4
years ago
and was very competitive with Maddy S as well

 

[Zonepress]

It's hard to talk about the other Big East schools. We learn about the good players as we see them, but if you look at the national media there is never an article about a team or player in the Big East not associated with UConn. Creighton and Marquette have had mentioned in the past as they were ranked by the AP, but once they left the list, they become irrelevant. I feel sorry for some of the coaches, men and women who give their all and are not rewarded by their university. Their dream is to be poached by another conference, just as many of our leagues very good players have. Although I hated the league, playing in the AAC was more enjoyable than playing some off these BE teams. Some, not all. One other thing, for the first time for as long as I can remember, I was so bored with the Butler game that I fell asleep. Terribly boring, but I stuck it out until the end because they are my Huskies. BTW, I recorded it and watched it at around 8:30, just to say that I didn't fall asleep at 4:00. LOL

other than south Fla the aac was no better than the BE

 

[FanSince17]

other than south Fla the aac was no better than the BE

Funny, come to think of it, it kinda shoots the football school idea out the window. The AAC has some good football- Memphis, East Carolina, Tulane, there’s more I think.

 

[Skeets]

Funny, come to think of it, it kinda shoots the football school idea out the window. The AAC has some good football- Memphis, East Carolina, Tulane, there’s more I think.

Yep, good point. Those Southern schools are in football country. In some locations women's basketball just barely beats out pickleball as a spectator sport.