Big 12

[UConnJim]

Most FBS campuses are in sizable cities, CT chose not to do that, regardless it's doubtful our stadium location would damage our appeal to a conference looking to add teams.

Not really true. The state put UConn in Storrs and the area around the university was not really allowed to grow to become a college town. If you look at many of the other land grant universities, the university became one of the drivers of growth for the area.

Some people seem to think UConn is in the middle of nowhere. It is 7 miles off a major interstate, 25 miles from Hartford, 45 miles from Worcester and Springfield. 50 miles to Providence, 60 miles to New Haven, 90 miles to Boston, and about 140 miles to NYC. Penn State is 140 miles to Pittsburgh and 190 miles to Philly.

 

[NE Football]

The question is how much money would we bring into the B12? I think the B12 is more interested in the four corner schools. They will also wait to see what happens with the ACC.

ESPN should offer ND 75 million per year to join the ACC. ESPN might be interested in building the ACC brand by getting O, Washington, Cal, Stanford & Colorado to join the ACC to get to 20 members.

 

[metsfan2323]

Some people seem to think UConn is in the middle of nowhere.

UCONN's campus is not in the middle of anything, it's in the right hand corner of the state, tucked far away as possible from the state's coastal money. But to the point at hand, moving the football stadium to the campus would do nothing to increase ticket sales, it might actually reduce ticket sales and Storrs is not even close to anything resembling a tourist attraction for visitors, Sorry.

To say we become more attractive to a P5 conference with an on-campus stadium is nonsense.

 

[metsfan2323]

Hopefully something we are using in our pitch to any P5 conference is Yankee Stadium. Pitch 5 conference games a decade in NYC. That's your tourist attraction. Also its great for our coastal fans as Metro North goes directly to the stadium. Win. Win.

 

[huskymedic]

->As SI reported in a story published May 15, the Big 12 is also targeting another basketball power out East: five-time national champion UConn. A pairing of the two would give the league dominant hoops programs on either coast.<-

 

[CL82]

Not really true. The state put UConn in Storrs and the area around the university was not really allowed to grow to become a college town. If you look at many of the other land grant universities, the university became one of the drivers of growth for the area.

Some people seem to think UConn is in the middle of nowhere. It is 7 miles off a major interstate, 25 miles from Hartford, 45 miles from Worcester and Springfield. 50 miles to Providence, 60 miles to New Haven, 90 miles to Boston, and about 140 miles to NYC. Penn State is 140 miles to Pittsburgh and 190 miles to Philly.

 

[UConnJim]

UCONN's campus is not in the middle of anything, it's in the right hand corner of the state, tucked far away as possible from the state's coastal money. But to the point at hand, moving the football stadium to the campus would do nothing to increase ticket sales, it might actually reduce ticket sales and Storrs is not even close to anything resembling a tourist attraction for visitors, Sorry.

To say we become more attractive to a P5 conference with an on-campus stadium is nonsense.

The UConn/Mansfield area is the biggest growth opportunity in Connecticut. Large state universities offer tremendous activities for residents: concerts, plays, sports, classes,... And, you have a large number of educated young people that businesses would love to hire. This is why the towns and cities surrounding land grant universities have grown and are attractive places to live.

I would focus on developing the area around UConn first. In 20 years, reevaluate an on-campus stadium.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Some people seem to think UConn is in the middle of nowhere. It is 7 miles off a major interstate, 25 miles from Hartford, 45 miles from Worcester and Springfield.

Or in other words, the middle of nowhere lol.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The UConn/Mansfield area is the biggest growth opportunity in Connecticut. Large state universities offer tremendous activities for residents: concerts, plays, sports, classes,... And, you have a large number of educated young people that businesses would love to hire. This is why the towns and cities surrounding land grant universities have grown and are attractive places to live.

I would focus on developing the area around UConn first. In 20 years, reevaluate an on-campus stadium.

Great idea. Let's see if you can get it off the ground

 

[hoopsfan22]

The UConn/Mansfield area is the biggest growth opportunity in Connecticut. Large state universities offer tremendous activities for residents: concerts, plays, sports, classes,... And, you have a large number of educated young people that businesses would love to hire. This is why the towns and cities surrounding land grant universities have grown and are attractive places to live.

I would focus on developing the area around UConn first. In 20 years, reevaluate an on-campus stadium.

The people and towns around UConn don't want it.

 

[metsfan2323]

Penn State is 140 miles to Pittsburgh and 190 miles to Philly.

PA probably intentionally built their flag ship right in the middle of the state, it would have been great for UCONN ticket sales if CT did the same. No doubt the football stadium would be on campus. Unfortunately that ship passed long ago.

 

[huskymedic]

Assisted access <-

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Interesting data and viewpoints. The only thing I am wondering about is the connection between academics and sports/football specifically performance. Not sure if there is data to support that premise, but my gut tells me that football is so deeply rooted in SEC culture that even if their universities decline there shouldn't be a decline. You might even argue that the SEC schools will double-down/triple-down on sports/football if their academics slide.

One odd thing about most articles on this topic is that many writers think that students will stay close to home rather than pursue attendance at better universities. That has never happened. Most students will attend the best school they can get into, even if they have to go a few states over to attend it, UNLESS, it is a lot cheaper to attend a lower rated school. Basically, lower ranked colleges have to buy students. Those schools will look into every bucket of cash, including the athletic department, to fund this.

I bring this up because the SEC schools' long-term financial situation is not as rosey as sports writers indicate.

 

[Kolumbo]

One odd thing about most articles on this topic is that many writers think that students will stay close to home rather than pursue attendance at better universities. That has never happened. Most students will attend the best school they can get into, even if they have to go a few states over to attend it, UNLESS, it is a lot cheaper to attend a lower rated school. Basically, lower ranked colleges have to buy students. Those schools will look into every bucket of cash, including the athletic department, to fund this.

I bring this up because the SEC schools' long-term financial situation is not as rosey as sports writers indicate.

I have also seen kids go to schools in NC, SC, FL and not necessarily the big name schools. They mostly wanted to go to school further south where the weather is nicer. Granted, many kids aren't getting into UConn these days so that might factor into it too and perhaps this is not a trend. But for many undergrads I think the south has more of a lure today than it did in the past. With communications technology and ease of travel, distance isn't much of a factor.

 

[Ha Who]

The people and towns around UConn don't want it.

What is hilarious about that mindset is thinking about the opposition to a highway to Providence. They fought that one for years and their payback was two of the larger casinos in the world.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is in response to your post above and the follow-up re kids staying local. For perspective, I live outside Connecticut and I have a kid that is starting to look at schools, so the parents talk a bit about what they're looking at, and we've been paying attention to where kids apply/enroll. I was kind-of shocked to see a lot of kids looking at the mediocre SEC schools. These aren't honor students. If I had to make a comparison, they were the kids that would have gone to bad private school or maybe a URI type in the past (no insult meant to those schools). Those kids are not going to Alabama, LSU, even Ole Miss (?!) because of any academic quality. I don't think they care one iota about the academic prestige. They talk about football games, fraternity/sororities and the weather. The only person that ever touched on academics just focused on the Alabama alum network and the huge flow of money the government (according to them it's state and fed) into the campuses.

My family has our demographic reasons for not even briefly looking at those southern schools, but I think you might be myopically focused on academics. There appears to be a separation between academic prestige and popularity of a school. I think if that cliff is coming, the SEC might be well positioned to survive. Interestingly, UConn gets a lot of applications from my town. More than the SEC schools, but only 0-2 enroll each year. Penn State and Maryland have a much higher enrollment to acceptance rate. I don't know if that is because of the Big Ten vs. Big East/Independent, or whatever other reason.

The kids you are talking about are probably targeting schools that are basically open admissions. These schools have to buy students. For example, URI, which has a reputation for being generous to good students, is already buying students, which kind of supports my argument. It is unlikely that a kid is going to go to Kentucky or Tennessee over UConn for anywhere close to the same price. A 3.8 gpa kid with 1400 SATs is not going to make a life decision because the school has an extra few weeks of warm weather a year. The kids that make that kind of decision probably don't have 3.8 gpas and 1400 SATs.

My point is that the entire university system in the United States is way overcapacity for the number of American kids that are going to be attending college by the end of the decade. There are only four ways to for a school to address the shrinking market:

1) Go hard after international students. The U of California system already does this successfully. I could see UConn doing this. It is unlikely that the SEC schools will go this route.

2) Raise the caliber of the university. How many SEC schools are going to be investing in professor salaries when the market is shrinking? SEC schools seem to be going the other way, taking away tenure and leaning more heavily on adjuncts. They were able to do this because the better schools were hyper competitive and at capacity. That is about to change.

3) Cut price. I see this happening regardless, but this is expensive for the universities, will result in schools needing more help from the state and alumni. Ironically, if the quality of students goes down, alumni donations will go down because the school is less likely to produce successful alumni that can donate back to the school.

4) Lower standards. I think this will happen regardless, but it is going to be flowing downhill. The Top 20's will take more students from UConn, and schools like UConn will take the better students that would have gone to the schools ranked 70-100. It will be Lord of the Flies for schools outside the Top 100. A lot of them will simply fail.

 

[Slasher]

I don't know if that's true. When I was in college (admittedly very long ago) I got into way better schools than the one I actually attended. Every kid has a different priority when it comes to colleges. Some want a college atmosphere (a true college town) some want a more urban environment like Miami, Pitt, Louisville, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCLA, etc. Others chose the best academic school they can get into. Many many many kids pick schools based on sports. Look at college admissions growth over the past five years. What do the ones that are growing have in common? Big time sports.

 

[History Geek]

I have also seen kids go to schools in NC, SC, FL and not necessarily the big name schools. They mostly wanted to go to school further south where the weather is nicer. Granted, many kids aren't getting into UConn these days so that might factor into it too and perhaps this is not a trend. But for many undergrads I think the south has more of a lure today than it did in the past. With communications technology and ease of travel, distance isn't much of a factor.

I teach high school seniors and can testify this is generally true.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't know if that's true. When I was in college (admittedly very long ago) I got into way better schools than the one I actually attended. Every kid has a different priority when it comes to colleges. Some want a college atmosphere (a true college town) some want a more urban environment like Miami, Pitt, Louisville, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCLA, etc. Others chose the best academic school they can get into. Many many many kids pick schools based on sports. Look at college admissions growth over the past five years. What do the ones that are growing have in common? Big time sports.

Ivies, U of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Rice, Washington University, and Amherst have big time sports? Because those schools have had a nice run the last few years.

And that collection of schools you mentioned have nothing to do with each other outside of sports. The Presidents of UCLA, Miami and Pitt would slash their wrists if they were ever included in an academic category with Louisville or Memphis. Any kid that chooses Memphis over Pitt or UCLA because they like Memphis better is a freaking idiot, and in all likelihood does not exist in the real world.

There will be two classes of universities that matter in the future: The prestige, Top 25 universities, like the ones I mentioned above, along with a handful of small prestige privates. And the large, respected, national research universities, of which UConn is currently one, and most of the SEC is not. The second class of school has developed strengths in STEM and professional degrees like business and pre-law, and will be very hard for schools outside of that group to break in as the number of students shrinks. It is more likely that those within that second group slip into a third category, than it is that any school currently outside the Top 70 or so breaks into that group.

There is almost no industry where status is as sticky as universities. The national rankings have changed very little in the last 30+ years. The schools with weaker rankings were able to compete because there was a growing population of college students, but that is over, and actually has been for several years already. The percentage of students going to college has been declining for years, driving down total student numbers, and the addressable market is going to start shrinking soon too.

 

[Urcea]

Just thinking nonsense here - let's say it does end up being UConn and Gonzaga with any other combination of pairs of schools (Colorado, Arizona/Colorado, UNLV, whomever) - does the Big 12 add a football only to pair with Gonzaga? Is there any value even out there to make that work? Army?

 

[LoyalFanCT]

Just thinking nonsense here - let's say it does end up being UConn and Gonzaga with any other combination of pairs of schools (Colorado, Arizona/Colorado, UNLV, whomever) - does the Big 12 add a football only to pair with Gonzaga? Is there any value even out there to make that work? Army?

Navy may be an option. Close to Washington DC metro

 

[BigTenFan]

I have also seen kids go to schools in NC, SC, FL and not necessarily the big name schools. They mostly wanted to go to school further south where the weather is nicer. Granted, many kids aren't getting into UConn these days so that might factor into it too and perhaps this is not a trend. But for many undergrads I think the south has more of a lure today than it did in the past. With communications technology and ease of travel, distance isn't much of a factor.

UConn has done a terrific job of positioning itself as a top 25 Public University. 2 things they can't afford to do:
Rest on their previous academic success
Continue to raise tuition and fees year after year.

The University is on the precipice of pricing itself out of the market for in state students.
I have 2 kids going to out of state Public University that is essentially the same price as UConn. I hope our state legislature and UConn administration addresses the need to control tuition.

 

[Slasher]

Ivies, U of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Rice, Washington University, and Amherst have big time sports? Because those schools have had a nice run the last few years.

And that collection of schools you mentioned have nothing to do with each other outside of sports. The Presidents of UCLA, Miami and Pitt would slash their wrists if they were ever included in an academic category with Louisville or Memphis. Any kid that chooses Memphis over Pitt or UCLA because they like Memphis better is a freaking idiot, and in all likelihood does not exist in the real world.

There will be two classes of universities that matter in the future: The prestige, Top 25 universities, like the ones I mentioned above, along with a handful of small prestige privates. And the large, respected, national research universities, of which UConn is currently one, and most of the SEC is not. The second class of school has developed strengths in STEM and professional degrees like business and pre-law, and will be very hard for schools outside of that group to break in as the number of students shrinks. It is more likely that those within that second group slip into a third category, than it is that any school currently outside the Top 70 or so breaks into that group.

There is almost no industry where status is as sticky as universities. The national rankings have changed very little in the last 30+ years. The schools with weaker rankings were able to compete because there was a growing population of college students, but that is over, and actually has been for several years already. The percentage of students going to college has been declining for years, driving down total student numbers, and the addressable market is going to start shrinking soon too.

The ivies will always get the best students no one is debating that. I'm talking about all schools that are step below the ivies. And I'm not talking the ivy adjacents like Carnegie, Chicago etc.

 

[UConnJim]

I have also seen kids go to schools in NC, SC, FL and not necessarily the big name schools. They mostly wanted to go to school further south where the weather is nicer. Granted, many kids aren't getting into UConn these days so that might factor into it too and perhaps this is not a trend. But for many undergrads I think the south has more of a lure today than it did in the past. With communications technology and ease of travel, distance isn't much of a factor.

Based on the high school in my town outside of Boston, I would agree with you. Kids are choosing schools in the South and some of the more popular ones are Elon, High Point, Coastal Carolina, Clemson, UTampa, UMiami, as well as some of the large SEC schools. It seems like the sweet spots are North Carolina, South Carolina, and Florida. With air travel today, it is easier to fly to Boston from NC, SC, and Florida than it is to drive to a school in upstate NY like Syracuse, URochester, Ithaca, Hobart, St. Lawrence,...

And, it is hard to get into many Florida schools relative to UConn. These Florida schools have lower acceptance rates than UConn: Florida, FSU, Miami, UCF, USF, University of Tampa, Florida A&M, West Florida.

Florida St. out of state is comparable in cost to UConn in-state and the acceptance rate is lower at FSU at 37%. One kid I know got rejected at FSU and is now going to UMass Amherst.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Based on the high school in my town outside of Boston, I would agree with you. Kids are choosing schools in the South and some of the more popular ones are Elon, High Point, Coastal Carolina, Clemson, UTampa, UMiami, as well as some of the large SEC schools. It seems like the sweet spots are North Carolina, South Carolina, and Florida. With air travel today, it is easier to fly to Boston from NC, SC, and Florida than it is to drive to a school in upstate NY like Syracuse, URochester, Ithaca, Hobart, St. Lawrence,...

And, it is hard to get into many Florida schools relative to UConn. These Florida schools have lower acceptance rates than UConn: Florida, FSU, Miami, UCF, USF, University of Tampa, Florida A&M, West Florida.

Florida St. out of state is comparable in cost to UConn in-state and the acceptance rate is lower at FSU at 37%. One kid I know got rejected at FSU and is now going to UMass Amherst.

You are making a case that UConn is finished athletically and academically. You are actually saying that ALL those Florida schools are better than UConn academically. What are you doing here then?

 

[RSTuthill]

And, it is hard to get into many Florida schools relative to UConn. These Florida schools have lower acceptance rates than UConn: Florida, FSU, Miami, UCF, USF, University of Tampa, Florida A&M, West Florida.

Florida St. out of state is comparable in cost to UConn in-state and the acceptance rate is lower at FSU at 37%. One kid I know got rejected at FSU and is now going to UMass Amherst.

Give it 30 years and that will turn around when FL becomes uninhabitable. We are gonna miss that Net Zero goal by quite a lot.

 

[UConnJim]

You are making a case that UConn is finished athletically and academically. You are actually saying that ALL those Florida schools are better than UConn academically. What are you doing here then?

I never said that. My point was some kids are attracted to southern schools and they are going to some.

 

[Kolumbo]

You are making a case that UConn is finished athletically and academically. You are actually saying that ALL those Florida schools are better than UConn academically. What are you doing here then?

His point was that the Florida schools are more popular, not better, and thusly have lower acceptance rates. I don't know how that supports UConn being finished athletically or academically. You are trying to Muntz his words.

 

[Kolumbo]

Just thinking nonsense here - let's say it does end up being UConn and Gonzaga with any other combination of pairs of schools (Colorado, Arizona/Colorado, UNLV, whomever) - does the Big 12 add a football only to pair with Gonzaga? Is there any value even out there to make that work? Army?