Big 12 season thread ('24-'25)

[ISUnorth]

The comment about Houston really applies to ASU and the article says Houston's only real chance at a victory in the conference is against the Sun Devils.

Kansas State was tied with Houston 51-51 to start the 4th but smoked them 23-4 in the 4th quarter. Saw the 3rd quarter update score while watching the ISU game and it was a bit of an eye catcher. That would have been a really bad loss for KSU.

And, Baylor, after looking good in a roadie win at Kansas gets beat by 20 in Waco by OSU.

Weekend slate of games is sort of weak, Utah @ ISU and Colorado @ Baylor are decent but the others are hohum. With only TCU, KSU and WVU ranked the marque matchups are few and far between right now.

 

[azfan]

UCF - WOW

Breathtaking.

Without a doubt Houston and ASU need to stand down UCF gives new meaning to the word basement dwelling.

The kitties look like the New York Liberty. I'm not sure if I've had the opportunity to witness such inept offense and defense, wow the Knights are really really bad.

 

[nwhoopfan]

UCF - WOW

Breathtaking.

Without a doubt Houston and ASU need to stand down UCF gives new meaning to the word basement dwelling.

The kitties look like the New York Liberty. I'm not sure if I've had the opportunity to witness such inept offense and defense, wow the Knights are really really bad.

Maybe they can get Coach Abe back? Not working out so well for her at Georgia and UCF has gone way downhill since she left.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

UCF - WOW

Breathtaking.

Without a doubt Houston and ASU need to stand down UCF gives new meaning to the word basement dwelling.

The kitties look like the New York Liberty. I'm not sure if I've had the opportunity to witness such inept offense and defense, wow the Knights are really really bad.

UCF looked awful. The one good thing for Arizona was that changes were made. 2 in the starting lineup. Different lineups were present on the floor. It can 't hurt.

Interestingly, shots that were not falling against Utah fell against UCF, and I'm not talking about the ones that were defended by Utah. That is always a factor.

 

[ISUnorth]

Posted this am. The answer in regards to ASU.......no!

Arizona State

Is there any hope for Arizona State?

The Sun Devils are 5-7 on the year and have lost three in a row, including a 20-point loss to Utah to open Big 12 play. They ares 1-3 so far against teams with a top 100 Her Hoop Stats rating and have losses to four teams ranked 141st or worse.

But the Sun Devils could still be a tough team because of how they push the pace, ranking 21st in possessions per 40 minutes. We’re bound to see a number of high-scoring games when ASU hits the court, and while the wins might be hard to come by, the games should at least be worth watching.

Big 12 Roundup: Questions for the New Year

Big 12 conference play has arrived. Let's take a look at all 16 teams.

open.substack.com

The comment about Houston really applies to ASU and the article says Houston's only real chance at a victory in the conference is against the Sun Devils.

Well, now they are 8-7. Any thoughts on the game tonight with Iowa State? Don't know much about ASU other than that paragraph you cited and that half the team is 6"-3" or over and they are probably even worse on defense than my Cyclones.

Will the Sun Devils 6'-7" forward shot blocker and 6"-3" post be able to styme Audi Crooks?

 

[Plebe]

Well, now they are 8-7. Any thoughts on the game tonight with Iowa State? Don't know much about ASU other than that paragraph you cited and that half the team is 6"-3" or over and they are probably even worse on defense than my Cyclones.

Will the Sun Devils 6'-7" forward shot blocker and 6"-3" post be able to styme Audi Crooks?

I believe Nevaeh Parkinson will likely be matched up with Audi. I think she's listed around 6'3" and is similarly girthy (though not as mobile as Audi).

I'm sure Basham will at the least be playing help D on Audi may get primary duties when Parkinson takes her breathers.

 

[azfan]

Well, now they are 8-7. Any thoughts on the game tonight with Iowa State? Don't know much about ASU other than that paragraph you cited and that half the team is 6"-3" or over and they are probably even worse on defense than my Cyclones.

Will the Sun Devils 6'-7" forward shot blocker and 6"-3" post be able to styme Audi Crooks?

I was thinking of Parkinson v Crooks this am they are almost identical body types. This should be a fun match up with Crooks the clear winner. She had 29 in the 7 point loss to Utah. Parkinson scored 14 in the ASU 102-82 loss to Utah, although she was 6 of 7 from the floor with 1 three.

Bascom, the 6'7'' Phoenix native, transfered back to the valley after 1 year at Oregon. Bascom is not ready for prime time and has had little impact on the current Sun Devil team. Her foot will work reminds me of a 5-year-old working on their hopscotch game. In 20 minutes per game she averages 47 per cent shooting which speaks volumes. She averages 2 blocks, 1.7 turnovers and likes to toss up a couple of three per game.

6:30 p.m. Mountain Standard Time tip on ESPN Plus and this will be the first real test for the Sun Devils as they've beat Penn, Texas Tech, Houston in their current 3 games streak. ISU knows what it's like to play real teams, experience will inform their performance in Tempe. The Cyclones have not been a very good road so they may be intimidated by the 16 fans who show up to support the Sun Devils. Perhaps ISU will be looking past Adair's squad to their trip down to the dirty t and what should be an interesting contest in McKale. The Crooks - Cunningham matchup should be as interesting as Crooks' battle with Parkinson.

Massey has Adair's squad as a 10 point dog in the game and I would be stunned if ASU can keep the game close. While the Sun Devils looked really good against Houston it was, well Houston.

Massey also has the Cyclones a three points favorite over the kitties perhaps failing to recognize how Barnes has coached up Cunningham and her squad over the past one game. In addition the kitties may be licking their paws and wounds after the experience they have with Baylor today. I'm actually as interested in seeing the results of Barnes preparation against the Bears as I am for the Crooks Parkinson and Crooks Cunningham battles.

 

[azfan]

I believe Nevaeh Parkinson will likely be matched up with Audi. I think she's listed around 6'3" and is similarly girthy (though not as mobile as Audi).

I'm sure Basham will at the least be playing help D on Audi may get primary duties when Parkinson takes her breathers.

Breathers that she desperately needs.

She's one of those interesting players who doesn't appear athletic but has a very soft touch and moves well in the paint. She averages 23 minutes per game, Crooks 27 minutes. However over the last four games Crooks has averaged 32 minutes and Parkinson 18. Parkinson, a fifth year senior transfer will challenge Crooks much more than the kitties Cunningham in the Saturday game down at McKale. The difference is I'm not sure Parkinson will be on the floor enough to make much of a significant dent in the Crooks offensive machine.

 

[ISUnorth]

Her foot will work reminds me of a 5-year-old working on their hopscotch game.

The Cyclones have not been a very good road so they may be intimidated by the 16 fans who show up to support the Sun Devils.

Okay, these both made me laugh some. We do have some fans traveling down as a winter break for both games in Arizona. Pretty sure they are planning to nab seats right behind our bench. Did a roadie to Fargo a few years back to see ISU play NDSU and wasn't really used to having a whole side in an a arena to choose where to sit.

Utes did pretty good handling a crowd bigger than they are used to on the road last Sunday at Hilton. I actually think that's a credit to them. Their post, Mayé Touré, was really good on offense versus Crooks with 24 points and would have had more if he hadn't blow 2 or 3 easy layups.

 

[azfan]

Okay, these both made me laugh some. We do have some fans traveling down as a winter break for both games in Arizona. Pretty sure they are planning to nab seats right behind our bench. Did a roadie to Fargo a few years back to see ISU play NDSU and wasn't really used to having a whole side in an a arena to choose where to sit.

Utes did pretty good handling a crowd bigger than they are used to on the road last Sunday at Hilton. I actually think that's a credit to them. Their post, Mayé Touré, was really good on offense versus Crooks with 24 points and would have had more if he hadn't blow 2 or 3 easy layups.

I was born and raised in Iowa and I've always wanted to go back and see a game in Ames. My bucket list is to see games at South Carolina and Connecticut as well.

The experience down in the dirty t at McKale is also amazing as those kittie fans really show up for their team. Your friends will really have a great time at McKale a great place for a game. While not Ames I think the kitties are averaging just over 6,000 on the women's side.

You can tell your friends rather than using the parking garage at McHale they can park on the streets immediately east of Campbell. It'll save them 40 minutes leaving as it takes forever for that parking structure to empty

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I was born and raised in Iowa and I've always wanted to go back and see a game in Ames. My bucket list is to see games at South Carolina and Connecticut as well.

The experience down in the dirty t at McKale is also amazing as those kittie fans really show up for their team. Your friends will really have a great time at McKale a great place for a game. While not Ames I think the kitties are averaging just over 6,000 on the women's side.

You can tell your friends rather than using the parking garage at McHale they can park on the streets immediately east of Campbell. It'll save them 40 minutes leaving as it takes forever for that parking structure to empty

We were at Ames with Rutgers in the NCAA's way back in the late 1990's, and it was already an awesome crowd that few in Women's Basketball except Tennessee and UConn were seeing at the time. Rutgers broke their hearts, for whatever its worth. We had bought our tickets late, upper area, but one of the Assistant AD's at Rutgers exchanged them for some reserve tickets RU had near the bench, adjacent to the comps. Not great seats, really, but great to soak in the atmosphere.

Is it legal to park in the neighborhood across Campbell from McKale (is it part of the Sam Hughes neighborhood?). Just curious. We park on something called "McKale Lawn" which is a grassy patch on the side of the practice facility on the south side of University and just east of McKale. Many season parking folks have parking on the "Mall" which is the grassy area between East and West bound University. The problem is that where you get to park on the mall depends on when you arrive - you could be right in front of the arena but you could be all the way up at the far end. But either are fairly decent for getting out after the game. The big givers park on the other side of the McKale, in the aquatics parking lot, incidentally.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

In addition the kitties may be licking their paws and wounds after the experience they have with Baylor today. I'm actually as interested in seeing the results of Barnes preparation against the Bears as I am for the Crooks Parkinson and Crooks Cunningham battles.

There is not much wrong with Adia's planning, its the execution, and getting the players to execute. We have a chalk talk tonight, the last 2 we attended (1 per season) were both spot on about what the opponent was going to do (or try to) and was spot on about what Arizona was going to try and do about it. One was USC last year, and while we lost it was close (maybe overtime?) and they did relatively control JuJu who played exactly the way they said she would. The other game, I don't remember the opponent, maybe Cal, we won and again, you could see the team executing the game plan.

 

[jdote33]

I need to watch a game but want to shout out Hailey Van Lith. She's got the keys and is considered a scorer and she has less than 11 fga in 6 out of the last seven games.

 

[ISUnorth]

Iowa State was red hot from three in the 1st quarter. One of them was even contested by a defender.

Woof. Seen more defense in game of H-O-R-S-E. Can see why Utah pasted a 100 on the Sun Devils.

Edit: Well that cooled off in a hurry. with ISU scoring only 13 and ASU 12 in the 2nd quarter.

 

[cancontent]

Iowa State was red hot from three in the 1st quarter. One of them was even contested by a defender.

Woof. Seen more defense in game of H-O-R-S-E. Can see why Utah pasted a 100 on the Sun Devils.

Edit: Well that cooled off in a hurry. with ISU scoring only 13 and ASU 12 in the 2nd quarter.

Remember what @Plebe said about jinxing posts? Think the theory applies to more than just UConn and ND.

 

[azfan]

Is it legal to park in the neighborhood across Campbell from McKale (is it part of the Sam Hughes neighborhood?). Just curious. We park on something called "McKale Lawn" which is a grassy patch on the side of the practice facility on the south side of University and just east of McKale. Many season parking folks have parking on the "Mall" which is the grassy area between East and West bound University. The problem is that where you get to park on the mall depends on when you arrive - you could be right in front of the arena but you could be all the way up at the far end. But either are fairly decent for getting out after the game. The big givers park on the other side of the McKale, in the aquatics parking lot, incidentally.

Yes. My daughter and son in law live in Oro Valley and we parked in Sam Hughes for the Grand Canyon victory over the killies.

The neighborhood (some million dollar homes) has posted signs indicating parking only allowed after 5 pm M-F and Sat, Sun.....with the exception of Kittie men's game days on weekends....the signs helpfully have the schedule which indicates these no Parking signs are updated yearly. I suppose a million dollar neighborhood can afford ,

The big challenge post game is crossing Campbell, for the Grand Canyon game Tucson PD was handling traffic to allow pedestrian crossing into Sam Hughes.

 

[azfan]

There is not much wrong with Adia's planning, its the execution, and getting the players to execute. We have a chalk talk tonight, the last 2 we attended (1 per season) were both spot on about what the opponent was going to do (or try to) and was spot on about what Arizona was going to try and do about it. One was USC last year, and while we lost it was close (maybe overtime?) and they did relatively control JuJu who played exactly the way they said she would. The other game, I don't remember the opponent, maybe Cal, we won and again, you could see the team executing the game plan.

A relatively significant element (and challenge) in coaching.

 

[ISUnorth]

Iowa State was red hot from three in the 1st quarter. One of them was even contested by a defender.

Woof. Seen more defense in game of H-O-R-S-E. Can see why Utah pasted a 100 on the Sun Devils.

Edit: Well that cooled off in a hurry. with ISU scoring only 13 and ASU 12 in the 2nd quarter.

Well, that was a weird game. Teams combine for 57 points in the 1st quarter and than stubble around for a collective 25 in the 2nd and than back to scoring the last two quarters. You can see why both are near the bottom of the league in defense. Cyclones are going to probably need to play better than this to win the next one versus Arizona.

 

[azfan]

Well, that was a weird game. Teams combine for 57 points in the 1st quarter and than stubble around for a collective 25 in the 2nd and than back to scoring the last two quarters. You can see why both are near the bottom of the league in defense. Cyclones are going to probably need to play better than this to win the next one versus Arizona.

This is the ASU game plan with the addition of FOULING (26 in this game) rather than defending. This loss will be the beginning of a 5 game losing streak for Adair.

Can't wait to see the Cunnigham-Crooks dance down in the dirty t on Sat. I'm guessing she and her fellow starters might be just a tad gassed. This game winner will hold undisputed possession of 7th place as the Bears are sure to maul the stumbblers of Tempe. If ISU scores 90 and hits 10 threes (unlikely) they will take down the kitties. Barnes did inspire an OT loss to the Bears in part due to the Bears dominance of the boards. (13-1) on the offensive glass. ..ouch)

Kitties, Cyclones and Sun Devils all 2-2 in conference tonight.

 

[Plebe]

Well, that was a weird game. Teams combine for 57 points in the 1st quarter and than stubble around for a collective 25 in the 2nd and than back to scoring the last two quarters. You can see why both are near the bottom of the league in defense. Cyclones are going to probably need to play better than this to win the next one versus Arizona.

This is the ASU game plan with the addition of FOULING (26 in this game) rather than defending. This loss will be the beginning of a 5 game losing streak for Adair.

My favorite moment from this game was the extended Big 12 puff piece at halftime -- which of course featured the coaches of Houston, UCF and Arizona State talking about what a "gauntlet" the Big 12 is (that was Hughey) and how every opponent is basically a pro team (this was Adair's brilliance).

That'd be like asking Xavier to be the authority on what a great conference the Big East is.

 

[Baller29]

My favorite moment from this game was the extended Big 12 puff piece at halftime -- which of course featured the coaches of Houston, UCF and Arizona State talking about what a "gauntlet" the Big 12 is (that was Hughey) and how every opponent is basically a pro team (this was Adair's brilliance).

That'd be like asking Xavier to be the authority on what a great conference the Big East is.

Messer probably gonna be relieved of her job very soon, if not by the end of next year

 

[ISUnorth]

Since we are at least a few games into league play and have enough games in that the NET isn't totally skewed, here's the Big 12 rankings. I agree on the top six, they sort of align with polls and fan's eye test, but think all six are at least a little bit too high.

 

[ISUnorth]

ASU band get a hat tip from Audi Crooks.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

A relatively significant element (and challenge) in coaching.

Yes. The team played well for 3 quarters out of 4 against Baylor, and ok in overtime. In the second half they executed the game plan well based on the pre-game "chalk talk" we attended (Salvo Coppa was the coach). I wasn't upset with much this game, even the close loss, although there were 3 concerning items:

• Once again, Skyler Jones came off the bench. Unlike UCF where she played well, she was a disaster and off the floor in like a minute.
• On several plays, both defense and offense sides, they didn't execute the play Adia was calling or trying to call, leaving Adia visibly frustrated, which is rare.
• Jada Williams remains frustrated with her teammates, at times. I get they are apparently not in the right position . . . but she shouldn't show her annoyance. OTH, they should know where they should be.

One thing I always remember, as Viv talked a lot about it in the early years at Rutgers. That is, many decisions are based on practice. She always reminded us that players who want to start need to show that they are ready in practice. Obviously I know nothing about what goes on at Arizona practices.

 

[ISUnorth]

Not much going in the Big 12. Teams favored won other that WVU who lost at OSU. That should maybe get OSU some more votes in RV category and drop WVU some more, maybe down to 20 something. Baylor and Iowa State took care of business and won both their games in Arizona.

Utah has back to back tough road games at Baylor and TCU coming up. Not much else challenging for the ranked members the next week or so. Maybe ISU at WVU will be tough for WVU but it is in Morgantown.

 

[Baller29]

Not much going in the Big 12. Teams favored won other that WVU who lost at OSU. That should maybe get OSU some more votes in RV category and drop WVU some more, maybe down to 20 something. Baylor and Iowa State took care of business and won both their games in Arizona.

Utah has back to back tough road games at Baylor and TCU coming up. Not much else challenging for the ranked members the next week or so. Maybe ISU at WVU will be tough for WVU but it is in Morgantown.

Yall think Messer gets fired or next year her last year?

 

[ISUnorth]

Yall think Messer gets fired or next year her last year?

No opinion.

I only even knew what UCF was prior to them joining the Big 12 because Iowan and former ISU assistant Katie Abrahamson-Henderson coached them. Only knew that because a handful of ISU fans are obsessed with tracking the career of every assistant that spent time coaching in Ames, like Brenda Frese who was a Cyclone assistant decades ago. We don't track former HC's because Fennelly has been in Ames for like 50 years. Katie and Brenda were assistants together at ISU but it was 25 years ago so pretty irrelevant.

 

[cancontent]

Giving a shout out to Delaney Gibb for this accomplishment. From a Canadian perspective her potential was overshadowed by the likes of Prosper, Swords, Fournier, Bascoe and Makeer during her highschool days.

No one is to blame for it as it was outside of her control. Part of the challenge for players from Alberta who opt not to move to Ontario to compete. Kudos to her for staying home. Really happy to see her thriving with BYU.

 

[packwrap]

I was looking at candidates to be USA team #8. Both Kansas State and TCU are likely culprits, if one or the other gets thru the conference with only one loss.

That team could even snare a #1 seed depending on what happens at top of SEC and Big10.

Kansas State has some nice pieces and looks good in ncaa team stats. Eager to see them in a big game.

 

[azfan]

Obviously I know nothing about what goes on at Arizona practices.

Neither do the players obviously. This is a combination of a coach being consistently unable to have her team perform and more importantly a shortcoming on the players' part and not being able to internalize coaching.

That said the dysfunction in the dirty t still generates better results than the absolute catastrophe and dumpster fire underway and supervised by the very nice coach from Delaware.

Both situations underscore the rarity of the convergence of excellence in coaching and excellence in player performance.