Big 12 Pausing Expansion

[Hamms30]

At this point, the school needs to figure out a way to be truly independent. We're trying to compete at a level that Big East payouts aren't going to be able to afford us. Not saying drop the Big East, but how do we create our own independent revenue streams for the school? The BigXII and ACC know they can just get us as cheaply as they can because they know they don't need to worry about the B1G or SEC coming to swoop in. How do we figure out a way to bring in more attention and expand our reach on our own instead of relying on a media contract? I don't know the answer, but it seems when we're just chasing the TV contracts with hands out, all the bargaining power is in the other party's hands.

Is it about outreach and engagement New England wide so that we truly capture the New England market and can create some sort of baseline revenue each year that doesn't rely on media rights payout? Academic outreach? Football and basketball camps throughout the northeast? Try and get "home games" at Foxboro and just start distributing tickets to MA area kids/families and get them interested in UConn? Men's and women's basketball non-cons throughout the region doing the same thing? UConn sponsored youth hockey tournaments/programs? How do we get people in Maine and New Hampshire to be interested in UConn and follow/spend money the same way they attach themselves to the Pats or Sox? How do you carve a line down the NY border and basically say that everything east is "ours" so if a conference comes again we have something to put in front of them and push back and say pay us?

 

[FearThePups]

3x the B12 has killed the idea of adding UConn. Truly amazing.

This is about as futile as the Monty Python skit of an English bobbie telling a fleeing criminal “stop or I’ll say stop again”.

 

[Yardigan]

This is about as futile as the Monty Python skit of an English bobbie telling a fleeing criminal “stop or I’ll say stop again”.

But wait, our hopes are not dead yet...

 

[Kolumbo]

This is why if we had even a speck of self respect we tell them all to go pound sand. Enough is Enough.

I would love to be able to do that, but you need fork u money. Everyone wanted Cooper Flagg and he chose another school. What happens down the road when we offer a scholarship and the other school offers a scholarship and $$$ and a car. Other programs have more wealthy alumni, more NIL, more P $. That's what everyone is saying is going to happen.

 

[August_West]

This is true. Nobody expected any of the wildness that has occurred so far and nobody knows what will happen in college athletics. It's the most unstable landscape maybe in the entire history of all sports.

Everyone is an expert these days. They read a bunch of twitter opinions by nobodies and think they are informed on what will actually happen going forward when past and recent history tells us everyone has been wrong about pretty much everything every step of the way. Not one person in 2014 could even come close to predicting how College Sports exists in 2024, but they all tried, and no one was even close. Why should I think everyone knows how things will be in 2034? No one has any idea. Most of all the people running this damn mess.

 

[LoyalFanCT]

For those who think the PAC2 offers UConn a home for football, what will be different than with the AAC. The TV payout would be on the low side too.

 

[ScottVib]

just because football has to die doesnt mean all the football fans should be rooting for bball to die.

I don’t think any of the football fans are rooting for basketball to die. In fact it’s the opposite, the concern is that without a move basketball and the entire department loses its ability to consistently perform at a championship level.

The only fans who seem to be actively rooting for a program (or as you point out seven programs) to die are those fans who were against the move to begin with and whom see football as an inconvenience preventing UConn from moving from being the second highest spending program to the top highest spending program (source). To this point UConn has spared no expense and is the only FBS program in the nation that spends more on basketball.

I think the difference is that fans supporting the move (even begrudgingly for some of us) saw it as the potential to protect the entire athletic department and ensure a spot at the highest level for the athletic department regardless of a potential split of the power conferences. Those who didn’t tend love the memories generated by the Big East and/or fear that UConn would have similar problems to the AAC, crediting the Big East for some of the return to the pinnacle for the men’s program.

 

[JMick]

how much of the $22mill in revenue is going to be left over for each of the p4 bball programs? a couple mill? football programs are going to eat up practically all of it.

UConn men's bball earned over ~$10mill in revenue in 2023. the school will need to let the program keep a couple mill of that to pay players rather than cover its operating expenses. in turn, the school will have to cover the increased net loss with direct institutional support, as they have for decades.

the men's team only lost a total of ~$3mill in 2023. the BE deal is going up by ~$2mill/year. Hurley's contact is going up by ~$3mill/year, the men's program will need to keep ~$2mill/year in revenue. that's equals an increased net loss of only ~$6mill/year for the best bball program in the country. easily covered by institutional support and worth all the intangible benefits it brings to the school/state. plus...once football and the 6 corresponding title ix women's sports get cut that's a savings of ~$20mill/year.

just because football has to die doesnt mean all the football fans should be rooting for bball to die.

No one is rooting for basketball to die. Stop being so disingenuous.

The dollars required for revenue sharing are going to continue to increase. It's derived from the average power conference school revenue. As more schools get left out of power conferences and the TV money increases but consolidates, the overall dollars required to run an athletic department at the top of the sport are going to increase at an alarming rate. What happens when revenue sharing isn't $20m but it's $40m? And suddenly basketball players are all supposed to earn $1m/yr from revenue sharing. And the Big schools have rosters of 15. That's another $15m per basketball team.

 

[superjohn]

I would love to be able to do that, but you need fork u money. Everyone wanted Cooper Flagg and he chose another school. What happens down the road when we offer a scholarship and the other school offers a scholarship and $$$ and a car. Other programs have more wealthy alumni, more NIL, more P $. That's what everyone is saying is going to happen.

Cooper Flagg didn't pick Duke over UConn for money. Money wasn't any issue there.

 

[noeynox]

This is why if we had even a speck of self respect we tell them all to go pound sand. Enough is Enough.

If your are right about this August, why do Benedict and the university continue to allow themselves to be pantsed? Could they know more about what is coming than us?

 

[CCSU97]

At this point, the school needs to figure out a way to be truly independent. We're trying to compete at a level that Big East payouts aren't going to be able to afford us. Not saying drop the Big East, but how do we create our own independent revenue streams for the school? The BigXII and ACC know they can just get us as cheaply as they can because they know they don't need to worry about the B1G or SEC coming to swoop in. How do we figure out a way to bring in more attention and expand our reach on our own instead of relying on a media contract? I don't know the answer, but it seems when we're just chasing the TV contracts with hands out, all the bargaining power is in the other party's hands.

Is it about outreach and engagement New England wide so that we truly capture the New England market and can create some sort of baseline revenue each year that doesn't rely on media rights payout? Academic outreach? Football and basketball camps throughout the northeast? Try and get "home games" at Foxboro and just start distributing tickets to MA area kids/families and get them interested in UConn? Men's and women's basketball non-cons throughout the region doing the same thing? UConn sponsored youth hockey tournaments/programs? How do we get people in Maine and New Hampshire to be interested in UConn and follow/spend money the same way they attach themselves to the Pats or Sox? How do you carve a line down the NY border and basically say that everything east is "ours" so if a conference comes again we have something to put in front of them and push back and say pay us?

UConn is not a New England brand like the Red Sox. It is the flagship university of Connecticut. You don't get fans in MA or RI from sponsoring a youth hokey tourney.

This is why so many fans on this board are completely delusional. There is no rabid, revenue-generating untaped fanbase outside this State other than alumni.

Prior to 2001, this school never played Nationally-relevant football. Nearly every single P$ school had been in the club before that. And the ones that broke in late are from growing States in football-rabid parts of the country (South Florida,).

 

[CTBasketball]

How are we going to keep up with revenue sharing in basketball?

I think it's disingenuous and frankly insulting to keep saying "seek mental health". We're passionate fans for our school. I didn't believe Yormark last year or this year. If it happened great, but being burned by the ACC the first time was all I needed to be skeptical of any other CR rumor. You seem so sure that basketball won't be left behind, and this is based on what, clarvoyance that our media and revenues will assuredly keep us afloat and able to compete in terms of coaching and players? Many of us don't share that confidence, and it naturally has us worried. There's no kool-aid to be had. We are fighting to stay associated with other big time unis that field competitive sports, and we're seemingly seeing the train is leaving the station. Moving on, in turn, means accepting our defeat and possible relegation to 2nd tier status.

It’s not rude I’m genuinely concerned for all of you.

You are similar to a college-age dude getting played over and over and over by a girl who wants nothing to do with you. At some point you need to wake up. She doesn’t want you, she’s using you. You bought hundreds of dollars of drinks for her, and you never had a chance with her.

The ACC is almost (or soon to be) in the same satiation as us. Duke, UNC, NC State, Syracuse, UConn, Gonzaga, Villanova, and all the small schools make up the biggest revenue generating event in the world. They want to expand the tournament, not cut it down to 32 power teams. Who wants to watch LSU play Kansas St in the 2nd round? No one. Only 3-5 of those schools draw eye balls for basketball.

So no I do not think our basketball or school’s ability to compete will be harped by us getting toyed with the Big 12. Our football program will have to make a decision soon if it will choose to stick around - or wait until the ACC implodes and re-assess. That’s the only time I see us going anywhere or if the Big East expands.

So you all have to relax. The sky is not falling, it’s actually a beautiful sunny day. And as @August_West pointed out, basketball season is right around the corner.

 

[Kolumbo]

Cooper Flagg didn't pick Duke over UConn for money. Money wasn't any issue there.

I understand that and I wasn't clear. My point is, UConn and Duke compete for recruits, win some, lose some. In the very near future, it won't be as close a competition. Cash is King. We make fun of Syracuse for being a dying private. How is PC going to survive, a small school with a small endowment in a small state which can't tap into taxpayers. I know you know this, but for those who prefer to just remain in the Big East, it ain't gonna work.

 

[superjohn]

I understand that and I wasn't clear. My point is, UConn and Duke compete for recruits, win some, lose some. In the very near future, it won't be as close a competition. Cash is King. We make fun of Syracuse for being a dying private. How is PC going to survive, a small school with a small endowment in a small state which can't tap into taxpayers. I know you know this, but for those who prefer to just remain in the Big East, it ain't gonna work.

What's your suggestion?

 

[August_West]

If your are right about this August, why do Benedict and the university continue to allow themselves to be pantsed? Could they know more about what is coming than us?

I'm starting to wonder that myself. Im trying real hard to not chalk it up to Athletic Department stupidity and incompetence, but I'm having a harder and harder time.

 

[Hamms30]

UConn is not a New England brand like the Red Sox. It is the flagship university of Connecticut. You don't get fans in MA or RI from sponsoring a youth hokey tourney.

This is why so many fans on this board are completely delusional. There is no rabid, revenue-generating untaped fanbase outside this State other than alumni.

Prior to 2001, this school never played Nationally-relevant football. Nearly every single P$ school had been in the club before that. And the ones that broke in late are from growing States in football-rabid parts of the country (South Florida,).

I don't disagree at all and I know we're in a region with lots of small liberal arts schools dotted around.

I'm just saying, shouldn't that be the goal to work towards though? Instead of trying to keep squeezing every last drop of juice from the lemons we have, should we maybe be trying to plant more lemon trees? I have friends in the midwest that were driving 3 or 4 hours to watch Caitlin Clark play because they're kids were nonstop about it. How do we get the tens of thousands of little girls in the northeast to buy Paige or Azzi jerseys and ask for women's tickets for Christmas and drive a couple hours to Storrs? Maybe they stay home for college in NH or Maine.. but we want them to keep following UConn.

So far, chasing the payday isn't working out for us... so rather than keep doubling down on what we're doing, maybe we need to explore other avenues to

 

[Kolumbo]

What's your suggestion?

If I had the answer I'd probably be very wealthy

 

[KryHavok]

It’s not rude I’m genuinely concerned for all of you.

You are similar to a college-age dude getting played over and over and over by a girl who wants nothing to do with you. At some point you need to wake up. She doesn’t want you, she’s using you. You bought hundreds of dollars of drinks for her, and you never had a chance with her.

The ACC is almost (or soon to be) in the same satiation as us. Duke, UNC, NC State, Syracuse, UConn, Gonzaga, Villanova, and all the small schools make up the biggest revenue generating event in the world. They want to expand the tournament, not cut it down to 32 power teams. Who wants to watch LSU play Kansas St in the 2nd round? No one. Only 3-5 of those schools draw eye balls for basketball.

So no I do not think our basketball or school’s ability to compete will be harped by us getting toyed with the Big 12. Our football program will have to make a decision soon if it will choose to stick around - or wait until the ACC implodes and re-assess. That’s the only time I see us going anywhere or if the Big East expands.

So you all have to relax. The sky is not falling, it’s actually a beautiful sunny day. And as @August_West pointed out, basketball season is right around the corner.

Nah mate, I'm note that played for college guy. I am a proud alumnus who is tired of seeing his uni publicly dragged through the mud and slandered as not good enough time and time again. As I wrote, I never put any stock or belief in any of the CR rumors on UConn because I know better. UConn has been the one university that has been maligned over and over and for what valid reason? The only other school that can compare is SDSU when they wanted to join the PAC12, other than that, when most other schools were associated with the call-up, they were actually called up, but never us. Name another school that had to make multiple pitches to 2 major conferences over a decade and got rejected every time. It's that duality that antagonizes me and mars the reputation of my school. That as well as some shidiots in their self-made studios pontificating that UConn will never be good enough for Px blah blah blah. I cannot control said shidiots, but it sucks seeing this play out so damn publicly. I looked at Thamel's piece on the Big12-UConn pause and see 83% of the respondents like the decision while 12% laugh at our misfortunate...why we are so hated is beyond me (and yes, I get that winning a lot in basketball may have something to do with that, but by the same token, does the rest of the sporting world hate UCLA for their BB titles?)

As for the tourny you mentioned, just recall the NIT used to be the main tournament until it was supplanted by the NCAA tourney. If the Px want to break away and create a new one, who's to say they can be stopped? When LSU starts getting UConn level talent because of the money following into that program, the eyes will likely shift. Georgetown was great a long time ago, now not so much. I don't want UConn becoming like that.

 

[superjohn]

Nah mate, I'm note that played for college guy. I am a proud alumnus who is tired of seeing his uni publicly dragged through the mud and slandered as not good enough time and time again. As I wrote, I never put any stock or belief in any of the CR rumors on UConn because I know better. UConn has been the one university that has been maligned over and over and for what valid reason? The only other school that can compare is SDSU when they wanted to join the PAC12, other than that, when most other schools were associated with the call-up, they were actually called up, but never us. Name another school that had to make multiple pitches to 2 major conferences over a decade and got rejected every time. It's that duality that antagonizes me and mars the reputation of my school. That as well as some shidiots in their self-made studios pontificating that UConn will never be good enough for Px blah blah blah. I cannot control said shidiots, but it sucks seeing this play out so damn publicly. I looked at Thamel's piece on the Big12-UConn pause and see 83% of the respondents like the decision while 12% laugh at our misfortunate...why we are so hated is beyond me (and yes, I get that winning a lot in basketball may have something to do with that, but by the same token, does the rest of the sporting world hate UCLA for their BB titles?)

As for the tourny you mentioned, just recall the NIT used to be the main tournament until it was supplanted by the NCAA tourney. If the Px want to break away and create a new one, who's to say they can be stopped? When LSU starts getting UConn level talent because of the money following into that program, the eyes will likely shift. Georgetown was great a long time ago, now not so much. I don't want UConn becoming like that.

Georgetown hasn't been good because of gross incompetence. It has nothing to do with money, the landscape changing, being relegated as an also ran. They only have themselves to blame.

 

[Sea Goat]

The University will not die or be left behind, especially the basketball programs. Football program? Could die.

Stop drinking the kool-aid and seek mental help, all of you. It’s honestly sad and embarrassing how each and every one of you line up to be played over and over. Learn and move on.

Sadly, I think you're whistling through the graveyard... Utter failure in football will eventually lead to serious problems for all sports - most importantly BB! I think you fail to see how the P-2 can use the tons of money that they get from FB to dominate other sports - notably BB.

If BB (MM) gets monetized ala CFP, UConn would be in a better place in a full service conference.
This is also true for the BB powers in the lesser P-4 conferences - ACC, Big 12.
(As far as FB is concerned, there are the P-2 conferences and then everyone else. Let's face it, the P-2 controls CFP.)

We should be at least working with Duke, UNC, Kansas etc to insure that the P-2 doesn't use their ridiculous FB riches to "buy" BB. I think people are naive if they think that the P-2 only has designs on FB. The P-2 wants to control BB too. I think their vision is of a super dominant P-2 consortium of about 40 schools (they are at 34 (36?) now.) The P-2 will have all the money (NIL) to become the most attractive option for recruits in the money sports and enough left over to fund any other sports that tickle their fancy.

For us, the BE is a serious loser. A much bigger payout from a full service, nationwide conferences is needed. We make chicken guano in the BE Our athletic budget was in the red $36mm last year. How long can we sustain that? (Does Senator Murphy has a plan to cover that deficit?)

In sum, this is far more than the issue of marginalization of Big 12 or the ACC by the P-2 in FB. It really comes down to whether the lesser conferences (ACC and Big 12) become proactive about preserving BB. BB is next target for the P-2. UConn is valuable to any conference looking to find a seat at the table when BB is monetized. That the Big 12 doesn't recognize that gives me doubts about the future prospects of that conference. (IMO, the Big 12 jockeying for FB riches only is being short sighted. BB will also loom large if and when the MM money starts to flow to the schools ala CFP as I think it will.)

The potential riches that would come from a CFP type takeover of MM might not match CFP but it could come damn close! (The NCAA grosses over $1.1b on MM alone!) That's where we need to be. FB may always play second fiddle to BB at UConn, but we need it to get a real conference home. We need a respectable home for FB.

BTW, being in a conference that has decent FB doesn't mean that BB loses it primacy - see eg. Duke, UNC, Kansas. Does Duke and UNC FB outshine their BB? Does Kansas, Kentucky or Purdue FB outshine their BB? I think not. BE lovers - quit clutching your pearls... You can be in a full service conference and still have BB as your premier sport! IMO, that would be UConn's sweet spot. What we have learned, though, is that the Big 12 is still dreaming of P-2 FB status and, thus, because our FB currently sucks we are not attractive enough. But in BB, we are second to none.

Let's be honest, generally FB is going to be dominated by the P-2. (If a 10-2 team is picked for the CFP this year, what conference do you think it will be from?) While there will be exceptions, the Big 12 just won't match up with the P-2's "axis of evil" in FB. But the Big 12 could have become premier in BB and it has lost its opportunity to do so. We not only have to think outside the box - we need the Big 12 (and the ACC) to do so also. (There is a lot of money to be had in BB and the Big 12 and the ACC should also focus on that!) Then FB in the Big 12 and the ACC will still be very important, but BB will be a significant countervailing force to P-2 hegemony in FB. We can't let the P-2 dominate both FB and BB! If they do, we'll all become supplicants...

In closing, UConn used to have a nascent, but improving FB program under Lew Perkins and RE 1.0. We packed the Rent - tailgating was a blast! Our performance steadily improved. (Six wins in a row over Syracuse!) But, in 2011 we suffered a fatal double whammy - the Pasqualoni hire (Hathaway) and the first conference screw job (see my 100 or so posts on this topic over the last dozen years...). We can do it again in FB, but not as an independent.

 

[Yardigan]

If I had the answer I'd probably be very wealthy

getting THAT band back together is always a good deal

 

[KryHavok]

Georgetown UConn football hasn't been good because of gross incompetence. It has nothing to do with money, the landscape changing, being relegated as an also ran. They only have themselves to blame.

Slightly modified as most of what you wrote applies to us too. Fully acceptance the difference between my example of Georgetown and UConn, but the point remains Georgetown messed up and can't catch up...our football program messed for a decade, and now is really struggling to catch up. Georgetown may never win a natty in BBall; we're treading water and if not careful or smart won't win again either.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Everyone is an expert these days. They read a bunch of twitter opinions by nobodies and think they are informed on what will actually happen going forward when past and recent history tells us everyone has been wrong about pretty much everything every step of the way. Not one person in 2014 could even come close to predicting how College Sports exists in 2024, but they all tried, and no one was even close. Why should I think everyone knows how things will be in 2034? No one has any idea. Most of all the people running this damn mess.

My belief (only a guess) is that the P-2 will not fully break away but will end up in a position where they can basically call all of the shots.

Where it pertains to what many here are solely concerned about: the NCAA men's basketball tournament:

• Both P-2 conferences will be guaranteed a minimum of 12 bids each per tournament with no cap on total bids.
• B-12 & ACC will each receive 4-5 bids per year.
• The better of the remaining conferences (BE,MW) will receive two bids most years, three on a stray year.
• The better of the mid-majors will on occasion receive two bids, most years only one.
• The lesser of the mid-majors will receive one bid, perhaps once every six-eight years one may receive a second.
• The better of the low-majors will receive one bid, no exceptions.
• The lesser of the low-majors will be relegated to play-in games, now called first four, but there will me many more than four and P conference schools won't be subject to these.

They won't ccompletely destroy the tournament as it is too great of a money maker and far too significant a portion of the general public is very invested in it but they will stack the deck considerably in their favor while presenting the guise that everyone has a chance.

The day will come (and within a decade) where the third best BE team, performing somewhat similar or slightly better than Seton Hall did last year will be left out with the narrative being "they didn't play as strong a schedule as the 12th best SEC school".

 

[Rdkid]

Nobody has answered the riddle of how we would have managed being competitive for the next 7 years without a huge investment in football - a dollar amount the university and state have never gotten to. A yearly loss of tens of millions more. This is where all my skepticism comes from. How will we move forward now? UCF, Houston and Cincy have eaten it financially, they seem to have the stomach for it. They have a ton of debt and will have to pay players out of the 31 mil they start getting. UConn can’t dump women’s sports, only men’s. You can starve them, is that what we want? Hurt basketball? - that’s a non-starter. How were we going to make this work? How will we make this work? Was the idea to protect basketball and run out a bottom tier football product? If so, no wonder we didn’t get in. I’d love to see what we promised the Big 12 in terms of investment and where it was coming from. I’m all ears AD Dave.

 

[Kolumbo]

Nobody has answered the riddle of how we would have managed being competitive for the next 7 years without a huge investment in football - a dollar amount the university and state have never gotten to. A yearly loss of tens of millions more. This is where all my skepticism comes from. How will we move forward now? UCF, Houston and Cincy have eaten it financially, they seem to have the stomach for it. They have a ton of debt and will have to pay players out of the 31 mil they start getting. UConn can’t dump women’s sports, only men’s. You can starve them, is that what we want? Hurt basketball? - that’s a non-starter. How were we going to make this work? How will we make this work? Was the idea to protect basketball and run out a bottom tier football product? If so, no wonder we didn’t get in. I’d love to see what we promised the Big 12 in terms of investment and where it was coming from. I’m all ears AD Dave.

Those are great questions and my guess is they couldn't agree on terms. Maybe Benedict looked at the terms the XII was offering and said thanks but no thanks, we cannot succeed under those conditions. I mean, sure, I'll bet the XII would love to have our hoops today without football, and if that was what they were offering, I give Benedict credit for not accepting it. I would love to know how all of the negotiations went down but I don't think we'll get access.