Big 12 expansion
- Thread starter shizzle787
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If the B12 expands by 4 which school gets left out? I think Memphis but its a tough call and could go many ways.
BYU
UCF
Houston
Cincy
Memphis
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If Houston is left out, I suspect that they and SMU both petition to join the MWC. Navy falls back to independent. Temple goes to the A-10 for hoops/Olympics and joins UConn with Independent football. Wichita might have to consider pleading with the MVC to be readmitted. The AAC essentially turns back into C-USA and ends up with a MAC/C-USA esque TV deal at around $5-10M, not per team, but for the full-conference. (Memphis will carry some value as will some of the markets they'll still have in Tampa and New Orleans, if Houston stuck around they might keep the conference deal closer to MWC value)
The leftover AAC would look something like: Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, USF, ECU filling back in with schools like UAB, Rice, Georgia State, Charlotte.
UConn would add potential late season dates with Navy & Temple on the Independent schedule in a recurring basis.
The leftover AAC would look something like: Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, USF, ECU filling back in with schools like UAB, Rice, Georgia State, Charlotte.
UConn would add potential late season dates with Navy & Temple on the Independent schedule in a recurring basis.
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Memphis and Houston ain't going anywhere. TCU / Baylor / Tech will block Houston. Memphis wasn't even a finalist in 2016, they aren't highly thought of in B12 circles. It's BYU / UCF/ Cincy for two spots and BYU is basically a lock. If they go to 4 maybe they bring in Colorado State or Boise State.
ShakyTheMohel
Is it 11:11 yet?
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Without insight on financial impact...unless it's P4, I prefer independent for football over any other option. Schedule is more interesting and it has positively impacted recruiting.
But...money will guide the decision and I am not sure an independent other than ND can make it work long term.
But...money will guide the decision and I am not sure an independent other than ND can make it work long term.
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If the B12 is smart they will add 4 even if it means less money. 4 provides more stability down the road.
Good call on Colorado State. They are definitely in the mix. The politicians in Texas will put a lot of pressure on the Texas B12 schools to add Houston. I agree, I don't think Memphis gets in.
Although a lot of folks will disagree, in practicality Byu. An outlier in many, many ways in that combined group.
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Could UConn set up a football only conference based on academic and sports strength: Members could include UConn, Army, Navy, Rice, SMU, Tulane, Buffalo, Air Force, Kansas, USF, and maybe UMass. It could be a resting place for the program until we get into B10 or ACC.
ShakyTheMohel
Is it 11:11 yet?
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I hope not.
Mr. Wonderful
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My take: Big 12 takes 2 schools only. The current schools don't want to share money when they don't have to.
Who do they take? That's not all that easy to figure. Houston and BYU have less of a chance than some think. There are no locks.
Colorado St. has a better chance than many seem to think. Cincinnati is a good bet. UCF has a lot going for it (location, size, finances, potential to compete).
I'd be very surprised if the additions come from anyone outside those 5.
Who do they take? That's not all that easy to figure. Houston and BYU have less of a chance than some think. There are no locks.
Colorado St. has a better chance than many seem to think. Cincinnati is a good bet. UCF has a lot going for it (location, size, finances, potential to compete).
I'd be very surprised if the additions come from anyone outside those 5.
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If you look strictly at football strength and geography, I think that since Cincy is so close to WVU, they are a lock. If they do add UCF, they should add USF, so that they have a geographic partner and not alone on an island. For possible western additions, I think if they add Boise or BYU, then they add Colorado state. I agree that they should add 4 for the stability, but they chose money over stability last time and they will make the same mistake again and only add 2.
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Although there could be more money in joining the Big 12, potential additions like UCF, Boise St, Cinci,... will most likely suffer more losses by joining the Big 12 and that could impact their programs. Look at 3 recent conference adds that experienced success before joining their new conference:
Utah: 42-39 in the Pac 12 since joining.
TCU: 44-37 in the Big 12 since joining, although they have been ranked in the top 10 3 times in the Big 12.
West Virginia: 40-40 in the Big 12 since joining.
All three schools were solid additions, but they are not winning games as much as before they joined their new conferences. Will people care about UCF or Cinci if they are going 7-5 or 6-6 in the Big 12?
Utah: 42-39 in the Pac 12 since joining.
TCU: 44-37 in the Big 12 since joining, although they have been ranked in the top 10 3 times in the Big 12.
West Virginia: 40-40 in the Big 12 since joining.
All three schools were solid additions, but they are not winning games as much as before they joined their new conferences. Will people care about UCF or Cinci if they are going 7-5 or 6-6 in the Big 12?
To be fair though, Oklahoma and Texas accounted for a fair number of those losses. The rest of the conference isn't exactly a powerhouse. ISU is good right now, but historically has been awful. We all know about Kansas. Oklahoma State has been mostly good, but everyone else is just kinda so-so.
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money is a shortsighted concern
B12 needs to prove they still have worthy FB or they completely fall off the map and then money goes to a pittance anyway.
there is a clear top 5 of nonP5 schools. Four of them are Boise BYU Cinci hous.
Colorado st might not even be in the top 10 of FB quality of non power 5.
nelsonmuntz
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I am surprised that the Big 12 is the surviving conference to add schools.
As a standalone, BYU is more valuable than anyone in the AAC or Big 12. The rest of the baggage that school brings is the question. I think the league can get past no games on Sunday, but any association of universities, athletic league or otherwise, is going to have a big problem with past BYU's past positions on LGBTQ. BYU is taking incremental steps to improve its image in this regard, but I don't think it is enough.
As a standalone, BYU is more valuable than anyone in the AAC or Big 12. The rest of the baggage that school brings is the question. I think the league can get past no games on Sunday, but any association of universities, athletic league or otherwise, is going to have a big problem with past BYU's past positions on LGBTQ. BYU is taking incremental steps to improve its image in this regard, but I don't think it is enough.
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The conference of Baylor is going to have a problem with BYU ?
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess there aren’t too many rainbow flags in Waco.
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Yahoo Thamel:
sports.yahoo.com
-> Here’s one man’s plan for the league.
Add eight schools — BYU, Boise State, Colorado State, San Diego State, Houston, UCF, USF and Cincinnati. (Memphis and Tulane could also be considered.) The bonus here: There are some pretty stout basketball programs.
Break those 16 teams into four pods to keep some of the league’s familiarity. The teams in the pods would play each other every year.
Pillaging the best programs from the two leagues below them — and adding a solid independent in BYU to pull in a streaming audience — creates a giant moat between the Big 12 and anyone else behind it. It also makes a loud statement to the College Football Playoff that the league has all the teams outside the Chosen 57 that would likely be considered for the CFP. <-
Think big: Here is one way to save the Big 12
For the Big 12 to grow into a vibrant new league for the next generation, the league’s leaders need to resist all of the quick-trigger leadership instincts.
-> Here’s one man’s plan for the league.
Add eight schools — BYU, Boise State, Colorado State, San Diego State, Houston, UCF, USF and Cincinnati. (Memphis and Tulane could also be considered.) The bonus here: There are some pretty stout basketball programs.
Break those 16 teams into four pods to keep some of the league’s familiarity. The teams in the pods would play each other every year.
- West: Boise State, BYU, Colorado State and San Diego State
- Midwest: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Oklahoma State
- Texas: Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and Houston (Tulane could go here if the egos of the Texas schools foolishly block Houston.)
- East: Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF and USF (Memphis could go here if two Florida schools aren't wanted.)
Pillaging the best programs from the two leagues below them — and adding a solid independent in BYU to pull in a streaming audience — creates a giant moat between the Big 12 and anyone else behind it. It also makes a loud statement to the College Football Playoff that the league has all the teams outside the Chosen 57 that would likely be considered for the CFP. <-
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How does this help UConn in terms of scheduling or getting out of FB independence?Yahoo Thamel:
Think big: Here is one way to save the Big 12
For the Big 12 to grow into a vibrant new league for the next generation, the league’s leaders need to resist all of the quick-trigger leadership instincts.
-> Here’s one man’s plan for the league.
Add eight schools — BYU, Boise State, Colorado State, San Diego State, Houston, UCF, USF and Cincinnati. (Memphis and Tulane could also be considered.) The bonus here: There are some pretty stout basketball programs.
Break those 16 teams into four pods to keep some of the league’s familiarity. The teams in the pods would play each other every year.
Going this big works out for the Big 12 in a few ways. First off, it kneecaps the AAC and Mountain West with such force that the Big 12 solidifies itself as the No. 5 league in the country. By a distance.
- West: Boise State, BYU, Colorado State and San Diego State
- Midwest: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Oklahoma State
- Texas: Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and Houston (Tulane could go here if the egos of the Texas schools foolishly block Houston.)
- East: Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF and USF (Memphis could go here if two Florida schools aren't wanted.)
Pillaging the best programs from the two leagues below them — and adding a solid independent in BYU to pull in a streaming audience — creates a giant moat between the Big 12 and anyone else behind it. It also makes a loud statement to the College Football Playoff that the league has all the teams outside the Chosen 57 that would likely be considered for the CFP. <-
CL82
James Breeding sucks
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The MAC’s last deal was 1 million collectively. I haven’t seen the number for their current deal but when they signed it was announced as “slightly more than $1 million collectively. Compared to P5 numbers that’s so low that I originally thought it was per school as well. But that’s from memory. Google it, if you want.
Current MAC deal is about 670k per team/ per year (AAV). Runs through 2026:
www.hustlebelt.com
That said it was an escalator from their prior $1M total deal (the first three years of the deal actually were redoing that deal) and the 10 new seasons of this extension are for closer to $10M total to the league (~800k AAV on a per team basis).
While these articles are old, they are consistent with the figures I've seen elsewhere
The MAC as a result actually makes 5x as much as C-USA which currently earns $2M a year total for the conference.
The New MAC - ESPN TV Deal Explained
The new MAC TV deal with ESPN is a big deal, so let’s take a few moments to break the questions down one at a time.
www.hustlebelt.com
That said it was an escalator from their prior $1M total deal (the first three years of the deal actually were redoing that deal) and the 10 new seasons of this extension are for closer to $10M total to the league (~800k AAV on a per team basis).
While these articles are old, they are consistent with the figures I've seen elsewhere
The MAC as a result actually makes 5x as much as C-USA which currently earns $2M a year total for the conference.