Big 10 Fever Has Struck Maryland

[pepband99]

Apples to oranges in attendance figures. Gee, wonder what the average student body difference is between the 2 conferences.

 

[Gfunk]

Apples to oranges in attendance figures. Gee, wonder what the average student body difference is between the 2 conferences.

The ACC is definitely rooted in heavily populated states, more than the BIG. Syracuse and Lville have rather large areanas, the Cuse having a damn stadium. Sadly their Florida schools don't show up enough - Miami and FSU. GT, if effectively branded, could own Atlanta.

 

[upstater]

If the B1G ever added Kansas and UConn, the ACC would cement its status as the biggest bunch of blowhards in all of sports. The B1G would be far and away the better BB conference.

UConn, Michigan St, Indiana, Kansas > North Carolina, Louisville and Duke

Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland > Syracuse, NC State

Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin < Virginia, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest

Nebraska, Purdue, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Clemson, Florida St., Miami, Penn State, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, etc.: don't matter

 

[Ldandy]

Subtlety in arguments posted somehow evade your grasp.

Turgeon is the primary reason there is no fan base excitement; in fact, the end of the Gary Williams era wasn't much better. I know people there with season tickets; they aren't expecting anything like their best years - now a distant 10 years ago. Having said that, the B1G cannot ignore the poor poor performance of their EASTERN wing in Basketball; not is they are intending to go into MSG or Verizon with any excitement ... as they do. As currently stands, a Minnesota/Michigan State/Iowa/Michigan Semifinals night is OK at MSG; but, they have missed a big opportunity if they didn't sprinkle in East Coast rooting interest. And, we know Rutgers and Penn State and Maryland are not going to be good by 2017.

The Rent got a decent crowd for Stony Brook - deserving given our current state of the Program. The Maryland low turnout for Central CT is a far more complicated discussion. Further, it's crazy to think a Michigan State and Michigan and Ohio State lineup has the hoop appeal for the Maryland Terp fan base as did the ACC; and the RAC? I don't think they will have Georgetown & Pitt & BC & SU & UConn & Seton Hall & St. John's & Villanova line like they did. None of us ever will again ...unfortunately.

What subtlety? You have people out and out claiming that UMD's inclusion in The B1G is hurting their attendance and all we have to judge this on is one OOC game against a total dog program. We have no idea what appeal The B1G Schedule will have for fans because they haven't played one yet. Will there be fans pining away for the days of Carolina and Duke? Yep. Will there be fans happy as hell to be away from their influence in The ACC? Yep. You yourself are wistfully remembering The Old Big East in this thread. Things change. Sometimes it sucks but eventually most move on.

As to your second point, Success for The B1G Tournament in NYC, is dependent on the fact that it is a novelty, and won't be something played there every year, or even every other year. Would it be a more raucous event if UCONN or Syracuse were involved? With out a doubt, but not having them will not make it an outright failure. B1G fans will travel in droves to attend, and networks will line up to bid on the broadcast rights. Comparing it to the Big East Tourament will always be a non starter IMO. That was admittedly a better tournament, and it matched up teams many of which were local to the venue as well.

 

[Ldandy]

If the B1G ever added Kansas and UConn, the ACC would cement its status as the biggest bunch of blowhards in all of sports. The B1G would be far and away the better BB conference.

UConn, Michigan St, Indiana, Kansas > North Carolina, Louisville and Duke

Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland > Syracuse, NC State

Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin < Virginia, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest

Nebraska, Purdue, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Clemson, Florida St., Miami, Penn State, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, etc.: don't matter

Not so sure about your third tier. Virginia was good last year for the first time since Ralph Sampson was in Charlottesville. GT? I guess. IIRC they played for a title a while back. Before that Lethal Weapon 3 in The 90's. WF begins and ends with Tim Duncan. Without him they don't even register. To me Minny is solid, Iowa is meh, but both Illinois and Wisconsin can and have been competitive nationally for a long time. At worst its a push.

 

[SAMCRO]

Both Maryland & Rutgers are Down as hoop programs.

Pudge, saying Rutgers is down as a hoops program is inaccurate as it implies that (a) Rutgers hoops was at one time up, and (b) that Rutgers hoops is a program.

 

[Phillydave]

Pudge, saying Rutgers is down as a hoops program is inaccurate as it implies that (a) Rutgers hoops was at one time up, and (b) that Rutgers hoops is a program.

Rutgers was pretty darn good in the 70's.

1975 - NCAA Tournament
1976- Final Four (including a win over UCONN in the Sweet 16)
1979 - Sweet 16

They also made the NIT Final 4 in 1978, winning the 3rd place game over Georgetown

So to me, that sounds like they WERE up at one time.

 

[Pudge]

Ahhh .... you all are younger than me.

Phil Sellers. James Bailey. Hollis Copeland. That was a helluva team with Bill Foster coaching ... before he took off for Duke or Utah or wherever.

 

[Pudge]

What subtlety? You have people out and out claiming that UMD's inclusion in The B1G is hurting their attendance and all we have to judge this on is one OOC game against a total dog program. We have no idea what appeal The B1G Schedule will have for fans because they haven't played one yet. Will there be fans pining away for the days of Carolina and Duke? Yep. Will there be fans happy as hell to be away from their influence in The ACC? Yep. You yourself are wistfully remembering The Old Big East in this thread. Things change. Sometimes it sucks but eventually most move on.

As to your second point, Success for The B1G Tournament in NYC, is dependent on the fact that it is a novelty, and won't be something played there every year, or even every other year. Would it be a more raucous event if UCONN or Syracuse were involved? With out a doubt, but not having them will not make it an outright failure. B1G fans will travel in droves to attend, and networks will line up to bid on the broadcast rights. Comparing it to the Big East Tourament will always be a non starter IMO. That was admittedly a better tournament, and it matched up teams many of which were local to the venue as well.

I don't think you quite understand what is going on. Yes ... you are right: they have played one game & that was not representative of anything. I do know season ticket holders. I think you are going to need quite awhile before those vested stakeholders feel like the B1G provides near the passion that they had with their ACC rivals. Is that me guessing? We can put educated guesses on a message board. Rutgers is a mess ... and NOT worth discussing.

If you wanted a Vibrant Anchor ... a GameChanger in Basketball in the East, you would not take either Maryland or Rutgers. They both are down. You take us. We have a HOF coach that has been succeeded by one of the most exciting young coaches in CBB. It's us & you'd draw in both MSG and Verizon.

 

[whaler11]

Since the attendance against Central is driven by season ticket sales of course it matters if there is interest in the whole schedule.

 

[bingethinker]

And Maryland is reporting numbers that have no connection to actual people in the building.

They announced 8,600 Monday. It was closer to 86 than 8,600.

Every school reports the exact same way. It's called attendance data. Your gripe should be with the NCAA, not Maryland.

 

[bingethinker]

If you wanted a Vibrant Anchor ... a GameChanger in Basketball in the East, you would not take either Maryland or Rutgers. They both are down. You take us. We have a HOF coach that has been succeeded by one of the most exciting young coaches in CBB. It's us & you'd draw in both MSG and Verizon.

I respect the hell out of UCONN's basketball program, but it's posts like this that make it real easy to not cry Connecticut a river for not being in a major conference. A small, albeit vocal contingent of Conn fans would rather demean other programs rather than highlight the good things you all have going on. It's like the Republicans in politics. "Don't vote for me because I bring something good to the table. Vote for me because the other guys are trash."

I get it. Maryland hoops hasn't been to the tourney since 2010. It sucks. Trust me. But in what world is Maryland Athletics, not just basketball but its entire athletic department, remotely comparable to Rutgers?

 

[upstater]

Every school reports the exact same way. It's called attendance data. Your gripe should be with the NCAA, not Maryland.

Not every school does it the same way. There are many radically different methods. Look at our football attendance for instance. You have attendance below season ticket numbers.

 

[bingethinker]

Not every school does it the same way. There are many radically different methods. Look at our football attendance for instance. You have attendance below season ticket numbers.

Connecticut reports butts in seats, not tickets sold? Didn't know that. I'm not attempting to be argumentative or cause a scene or stir at all. I just happen to think some very unfair things are being said about my alma mater in this thread. I'm sure you all understand.

 

[Ldandy]

I don't think you quite understand what is going on. Yes ... you are right: they have played one game & that was not representative of anything. I do know season ticket holders. I think you are going to need quite awhile before those vested stakeholders feel like the B1G provides near the passion that they had with their ACC rivals. Is that me guessing? We can put educated guesses on a message board. Rutgers is a mess ... and NOT worth discussing.

If you wanted a Vibrant Anchor ... a GameChanger in Basketball in the East, you would not take either Maryland or Rutgers. They both are down. You take us. We have a HOF coach that has been succeeded by one of the most exciting young coaches in CBB. It's us & you'd draw in both MSG and Verizon.

I don't disagree with you, just felt like people were making a big inference from a small sample.

 

[Fishy]

Of all the recent alignment moves, in terms of basketball, the Big Ten's addition of Maryland and Rutgers is far and away the least impressive.

In terms of making a splash, that's throwing pebbles in the ocean.

 

[whaler11]

Every school reports the exact same way. It's called attendance data. Your gripe should be with the NCAA, not Maryland.

UConn doesn't.

And every school doesn't have the same percentage of no shows.

 

[Pat125]

Of all the recent alignment moves, in terms of basketball, the Big Ten's addition of Maryland and Rutgers is far and away the least impressive.

In terms of making a splash, that's throwing pebbles in the ocean.

I'm only speaking for Maryland here. In terms of men's basketball, Maryland has been underperforming as of late. But it is clear that the Big 10 didn't make the decision based only on very recent performance, and looking more long term. If the Big 10 was only going to make their additions based only on basketball, obviously UConn would have been the first choice. But many other factors were part of the decision.

The jury is still out as to whether the Big 10 made the right move with adding Maryland, or if Maryland made the right move. But so far I like it. I will miss some of the rivalries, but frankly don't care if we ever play Duke again, at least as long as
Krzyzewski is the coach.

 

[Ldandy]

Of all the recent alignment moves, in terms of basketball, the Big Ten's addition of Maryland and Rutgers is far and away the least impressive.

In terms of making a splash, that's throwing pebbles in the ocean.

If we are only viewing realignment in terms of basketball strength then your point might be valid. That said I've always viewed UMD as more of a basketball school going back to Lefty and later Gary Williams. Plenty of talent in The DMV for the right coach to bring them back to prominence. Rutgers is what it is. The talent is there to be had, the question is will the administration commit to winning?

 

[B1GOSU]

I think this is an odd thread as well. Lets see attendance when the B1G teams come to town and you will most likely see a packed house.

It's also odd how some are degrading Maryland basketball. Sure they haven't performed at a high level in the last decade, but at worst they are a middle of the pack team.

It's also odd that the B1G is talked down in terms of basketball. I would argue that the B1G is the strongest P5 basketball conference top to bottom. And the fans come out for the games, as the B1G has the conference attendance record every year for the past several decades. Likewise, the NYC - DC corridor is home to some of the top basketball talent in the country, as well as most other sports. That is all now in the B1G footprint, regardless of how well Maryland or Rutgers perform in the various sports.

And my final point ---- the B1G does not expand because of basketball. Basketball is closer to soccer and gymnastics than it is to football in terms of revenue generation for the B1G. The B1G expansion, so far, has focused on AAU schools in contiguous states that have either had historic football powerhouses (Penn State, Nebraska) or were in huge media & recruiting markets (Maryland, Rutgers). Basketball was never in the discussion. (And I know Nebraska lost AAU status, but it was AFTER they were voted into the B1G).

 

[pj]

And my final point ---- the B1G does not expand because of basketball. Basketball is closer to soccer and gymnastics than it is to football in terms of revenue generation for the B1G. The B1G expansion, so far, has focused on AAU schools in contiguous states that have either had historic football powerhouses (Penn State, Nebraska) or were in huge media & recruiting markets (Maryland, Rutgers). Basketball was never in the discussion. (And I know Nebraska lost AAU status, but it was AFTER they were voted into the B1G).

This is true to date, and bad for UConn if it continues to be true ... but it may not. As in-person gate revenues decline and TV viewing increases with the high-def era, football's huge gate-based revenue advantage will decrease relative to the TV media revenue streams. And as TV revenue shifts from ad- (and viewer-)based to cable based, it becomes more important to have year-round programming and the football/basketball revenue difference is less substantial. Both will make basketball more salient.

We see the difference in the B1G and ACC expansions, B1G is much more focused on large cable markets (New Jersey, Maryland) and ACC on recent success (Louisville). ACC gets revenue through TV viewers/ad revenue to national broadcasts, while the B1G increasingly gets revenue from local viewers on cable.

The shift toward the B1G model is favorable for UConn and a continued shift in that direction will be still more favorable for us.

 

[upstater]

(And I know Nebraska lost AAU status, but it was AFTER they were voted into the B1G).

Michigan and Wisconsin tried to kick them out a year before they joined the B1G.

 

[Ldandy]

AAU is completely overstated in terms of B1G expansion. When it serves Delany's Message it is a mitigating factor, when it doesn't then it isn't. Athletic Conferences exist for no purpose other than making the member universities money. That's it. Even though most AD's run at a deficit they are still kept operational because they are great advertisements for the universities' enrollment efforts.

UMASS played a football game the other day that could not have had more than 6 or 7 thousand fans in attendance. Why even bother sponsoring a team and its 85 full scholarships if you aren't getting some kind of value in return? Obviously the benefit of saying we have Division 1 Football at our school outweighs the cost of sponsoring it. Even at a place as moribund as UMASS

If The B1G or ACC determines that UCONN can make everyone more cash then the opportunity will be there. What this Dufus Swofford is saying is akin to coach speak. Honestly does anyone think that if UT called Delany tomorrow and said we are all in but you have to take OU he would say no? He would be on a plane to Norman for a press conference the next day.

 

[uconnell]

The Big saved Rutgers life. They are in hock up to their ears. Giving money to RU is like a drunk inheriting money.

 

[Fishy]

And my final point ---- the B1G does not expand because of basketball. Basketball is closer to soccer and gymnastics than it is to football in terms of revenue generation for the B1G. The B1G expansion, so far, has focused on AAU schools in contiguous states that have either had historic football powerhouses (Penn State, Nebraska) or were in huge media & recruiting markets (Maryland, Rutgers). Basketball was never in the discussion. (And I know Nebraska lost AAU status, but it was AFTER they were voted into the B1G).

Basketball was obviously not part of the discussion - one could argue that athletics were barely part of the discussion given who the Big Ten invited.

Nebraska was a no-brainer, AAU or not - if you can get an iconic football program like that, you do it.

My only point was that the Big Ten has always trailed the better conferences in attention and interest and the last two additions make that muddle muddier.

Nationwide, which Big Ten teams are going to make people turn on their TV sets?

Michigan State? Ohio State if they're really bored and Duck Dynasty is in reruns?

Past that....crickets.