Betts and Price To Dodgers | The Boneyard

Betts and Price To Dodgers

jibsey

jibsey

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They cleared the salary but just went into the tank. Rebuild huh?
 
Sad to see the Sox trade away the franchise player.

 
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Can’t full rebuild when you still have so many other younger stars. I get why they did it but still very frustrating as a Sox fan. I hope Bloom doesn’t think you can run the Sox like the Rays.
 
I would think they could get more, but needing someone to take on Price's salary to give team breathing room.
There is still plenty of talent to be competitive.
 
As a Sox fan I think this was the smart/right move to make.

1.No guarantee Betts signs next year.
2. Projected to finish 3rd with Betts
3. Go under the cap and have flexibility to acquire other players or possible sign Betts in the offseason.
 
Dream Jobbed 2.0 said:
Can’t full rebuild when you still have so many other younger stars. I get why they did it but still very frustrating as a Sox fan. I hope Bloom doesn’t think you can run the Sox like the Rays.
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I think Bloom knows this but he was boxed in here and didn't have a choice. This was all ownership. They had to get under the luxury tax for reset and they allowed Dombrowski to backup up the truck for Price, Sale and Eovaldi who are damaged goods/aging. I absolutely hate paying pitchers big money at the end of their prime years. Always come back to bite you. I suppose it's better than just getting a sandwich round pick for Betts next year, but despite all the challeneges with Betts looming free agency and money, I though the return was a bit thin. Thought there would be another prospect or two with them paying half of Price's slary for next 3 years. It would have taken close to Trout money to resign Betts and the Sox just couldn't swing it. They couldn't give away Price and Bradley earlier this offseason to dump salary. Only Mookie knows whether he wanted out of Boston or he really wanted to maximize free agency.
 
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gampelcrazies said:
As a Sox fan I think this was the smart/right move to make.

1.No guarantee Betts signs next year.
2. Projected to finish 3rd with Betts
3. Go under the cap and have flexibility to acquire other players or possible sign Betts in the offseason.
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I would love to be wrong but I highly doubt they sign after this season.
 
jibsey said:
They cleared the salary but just went into the tank. Rebuild huh?
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As anyone who's watched a lot of baseball, one player does not make a team. Sox still have plenty of talent to contend. They're not going into the tank. Not sure who is going to pitch but hopefully they figure that out.

Hopefully this move pays off more for 2021 and beyond after they reset the salary cap. Remember, Yankees did the same thing. So did the Dodgers.
 
I'm not sure how LA could have done better. Their challenge was not to give up Dustin May or Tony Gonsolin...guys that are going to be versataile and year long contributors. Somehow they avoided taking on the majority of Price's contract, which is a bonus. Even if Betts doesn't re-up with LA, the health of their farm system makes this easily palatable.

Verdugo should be a fairly consistent (i.e. Nick Markakis) type...will hit for average, 20 HRs, and not hurt you in the clubhouse. The Twins pitcher is a top 100 prospect. Boston resets their luxury. They hit their main goal, but I'm left feeling they could have done better.

Twins made an interesting win-now move picking up Maeda. They needed depth and they got an underrated pitcher at the 11th hour. If they can catch lightning in a bottle with Rich Hill...they will be a nice darkhorse in the AL.

Dodgers further offset payroll by moving Joc and bringing in a guy that has shown some promise or can be moved in the future.
 
I don’t think the Red Sox are as bad as people think they are after this trade. Mookie was obviously extremely important, but they were still a top 5 offensive team last year. If their starting pitching can improve from the putrid numbers they put up last year, we should be in the hunt for a wild card spot.

We’re going to need to find another starter however with Price gone. Luckily we have flexibility now that we can work with (if they take on half of Price’s contract they’re looking at about $17 million below the luxury tax) to either trade for someone or take a shot at someone who is still a free agent.

From what I’ve read Verdugo is going to be a very nice offensive player who is also an above average defender and runner. His K% is incredibly low for this day and age, so we’re either getting a good contact guy to work with, or maybe he can sacrifice some of that for power. 3.1 WAR over ~370 PA’s, so that’s like what, on pace for 5 over a full season? Controllable for 5 years and you’d figure he can only go up for here.

I do wish they got one more prospect in addition to the pitcher they got. Not sure what Minny was thinking there, this kid seems like he has legit stuff.

Obviously you hate to see the team trade one of the best young stars in the game. But if he wasn’t going to negotiate an extension then you might as well get something more than a 5th rounder for him.
 
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I hate to see Betts go and it doesn't seem as if the Sox got as much as they could have. Since Verdugo was out with a back injury for the latter part of the season, I hope that is not a chronic condition. It sure is tough to be a fan nowadays but money is so huge that trades like this are a part of the game.
 
Just pencil Dodgers / Yankees in the WS. I could live with that
 
Paying half of prices deal makes little sense to me.
Defeats the purpose of moving him.

verdugo had to come, but the rest is underwhelming considering the rumored deals out there.
 
HooperScooper said:
As anyone who's watched a lot of baseball, one player does not make a team. Sox still have plenty of talent to contend. They're not going into the tank. Not sure who is going to pitch but hopefully they figure that out.

Hopefully this move pays off more for 2021 and beyond after they reset the salary cap. Remember, Yankees did the same thing. So did the Dodgers.
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That's really not accurate. One guy, especially an MVP caliber player, can literally get hot and carry a team in the playoffs.
 
Amazing that the Sox are now trading a former MVP at his peak in a salary dump.

Yankee fans were bitching for YEARS because they were simply waiting to clear the luxury tax, basically sitting out much of free agency, not working to improve the team. This is orders of magnitude worse. And the Yankees seem to have learned their lesson in the process. I guess you can make the argument that they only did so when a talent of Cole's caliber came on the market, but then, wouldn't you then make the argument that Betts is that same caliber of player ?

Lame. Exceedingly lame.
 
Shocked they were able to get Verdugo and Buster. Betts wasn’t resigning- he rejected countless offers. And getting Prices salary off books helps with the rebuild.

Verdugo is an excellent player and Buster is a closer in waiting.
 
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And I write the above acknowledging the Red Sox got way worse. Tons of work to do with that roster and farm system.
 
huskysupporter said:
Shocked they were able to get Verdugo and Buster. Betts wasn’t resigning- he rejected countless offers. And getting Prices salary off books helps with the rebuild.

Verdugo is an excellent player and Buster is a closer in waiting.
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Wasn't Boston's highest reported offer 10 year 300 million????? Betts should be getting closer to the Trout 430 number and he knows it. Machado and Harper just got 300/330 respectively. I think we can all agree Betts is far better (and younger!!) than those two. Boston's offer was big enough to be considered a 'legit' offer I guess you could argue, but low enough that they should have known Betts would decline it. Seems like a low ball and there wasn't any real intention for Boston to retain Betts
 
This will just make the dodgers' inevitable nlcs collapse all the more delicious
 
Gutter King said:
I'm not sure how LA could have done better. Their challenge was not to give up Dustin May or Tony Gonsolin...guys that are going to be versataile and year long contributors. Somehow they avoided taking on the majority of Price's contract, which is a bonus. Even if Betts doesn't re-up with LA, the health of their farm system makes this easily palatable.

Verdugo should be a fairly consistent (i.e. Nick Markakis) type...will hit for average, 20 HRs, and not hurt you in the clubhouse. The Twins pitcher is a top 100 prospect. Boston resets their luxury. They hit their main goal, but I'm left feeling they could have done better.

Twins made an interesting win-now move picking up Maeda. They needed depth and they got an underrated pitcher at the 11th hour. If they can catch lightning in a bottle with Rich Hill...they will be a nice darkhorse in the AL.

Dodgers further offset payroll by moving Joc and bringing in a guy that has shown some promise or can be moved in the future.
Expand ...

Not so sure about that. Multiple reports of a lack of professionalism, work ethic, a lot of attitude and on one of Fangraphs podcasts, Justin Mason has repeatedly alluded to "stuff" about Verdugo he can't talk about.
 
UConnSean said:
Wasn't Boston's highest reported offer 10 year 300 million????? Betts should be getting closer to the Trout 430 number and he knows it. Machado and Harper just got 300/330 respectively. I think we can all agree Betts is far better (and younger!!) than those two. Boston's offer was big enough to be considered a 'legit' offer I guess you could argue, but low enough that they should have known Betts would decline it. Seems like a low ball and there wasn't any real intention for Boston to retain Betts
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Machado is 3 months older than Betts and Harper is actually 9 days younger. They also hit FA 2 years younger than Betts will be after this season. Having said that, I think he is definitely better and still worth more than both.
 
UConnSean said:
Wasn't Boston's highest reported offer 10 year 300 million????? Betts should be getting closer to the Trout 430 number and he knows it. Machado and Harper just got 300/330 respectively. I think we can all agree Betts is far better (and younger!!) than those two. Boston's offer was big enough to be considered a 'legit' offer I guess you could argue, but low enough that they should have known Betts would decline it. Seems like a low ball and there wasn't any real intention for Boston to retain Betts
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Was there any real intention on Betts' part to remain in Boston?

Saw a Sporting News write up that gave Boston a D for the trade, without even a passing mention of what they got back or David Price, or if Betts could be signed. Only that the Red Sox could pay him what he might get in free agency and are choosing not to.

The other thing about those other guys mentioned. The Angels, Padres, Phillies, and Mariners (Cano) don't appear to be ready to contend. Too much is tied up in one player.
 
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methodology said:
Not so sure about that. Multiple reports of a lack of professionalism, work ethic, a lot of attitude and on one of Fangraphs podcasts, Justin Mason has repeatedly alluded to "stuff" about Verdugo he can't talk about.
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It might be as you indicate. Where I'm coming from he was always a high energy guy that really seemed to be integrated well with the team. That being said, Justin Turner, Rich Hill, Kershaw and Dave Robert's have created a phenomenal culture there and possibly could have masked some of that. It's a fine line a guy has to walk if one dares show some flamboyance.
 
Husky25 said:
Was there any real intention on Betts' part to remain in Boston?

Saw a Sporting News write up that gave Boston a D for the trade, without even a passing mention of what they got back or David Price, or if Betts could be signed. Only that the Red Sox could pay him what he might get in free agency and are choosing not to.

The other thing about those other guys mentioned. The Angels, Padres, Phillies, and Mariners (Cano) don't appear to be ready to contend. Too much is tied up in one player.
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the Phillies problems were the wasted money elsewhere.

arrietta
Cutch
Robertson
Jay Bruce
 
Husky25 said:
Was there any real intention on Betts' part to remain in Boston?

Saw a Sporting News write up that gave Boston a D for the trade, without even a passing mention of what they got back or David Price, or if Betts could be signed. Only that the Red Sox could pay him what he might get in free agency and are choosing not to.

The other thing about those other guys mentioned. The Angels, Padres, Phillies, and Mariners (Cano) don't appear to be ready to contend. Too much is tied up in one player.
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Seems the past 2 offseasons Betts and the red Sox were $100 mil apart on contract talks. Doesn't seem like they were going to pony up his asking price
 
methodology said:
Seems the past 2 offseasons Betts and the red Sox were $100 mil apart on contract talks. Doesn't seem like they were going to pony up his asking price
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Could Betts' asking price be out of line?

The Sox offered $300M over 10 years. According to Lou Merloni, Betts wanted a longer term at a higher AAV. An equal term at his desired AAV removes 70% of the delta. On the other hand, It is already a stretch (somewhat palatable perhaps, but still) that Betts would earn $20M, let alone $30M at ages 35-37. It's outlandish to think he would earn $35M/year up through age 39.
 
Husky25 said:
Could Betts' asking price be out of line?

The Sox offered $300M over 10 years. According to Lou Merloni, Betts wanted a longer term at a higher AAV. An equal term at his desired AAV removes 70% of the delta. On the other hand, It is already a stretch (somewhat palatable perhaps, but still) that Betts would earn $20M, let alone $30M at ages 35-37. It's outlandish to think he would earn $35M/year up through age 39.
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He wanted 10/300 last year they offered 10/200 then this year they offered 10/300 and he wanted 12/420. The market was already set with trout, Harper and Machado. Betts is right in line. The Sox have fallen short at every point in contact talks.

Mookie is 7th all time in WAR (42) through his first 6 seasons. He hasn't been worth less than $38 mil a year since rookie season and had a high of $83.2. He's been worth almost $50 mil/ season when including his rookie year
 
methodology said:
He wanted 10/300 last year they offered 10/200 then this year they offered 10/300 and he wanted 12/420. The market was already set with trout, Harper and Machado. Betts is right in line. The Sox have fallen short at every point in contact talks.

Mookie is 7th all time in WAR (42) through his first 6 seasons. He hasn't been worth less than $38 mil a year since rookie season and had a high of $83.2. He's been worth almost $50 mil/ season when including his rookie year
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There are a few things at play here. IIRC, the $200/10yr offer was just prior to the arbitration ruling where Betts was granted $20M anyway. I'm inclined to call that the Red Sox opening salvo, but then he moves the goalpost significantly in both length and dollars when they approach his original demand.

Markets are not set in a vacuum. If they were, the BBWAA would be obligated going forward to induct anyone similar to Harold Baines because the Veteran's Committee screwed the pooch.

Re: WAR...For comparison purposes, Trout's WAR through 6 seasons was 47.5 and he was top 2 MVP vote getter in 5 of them, winning twice and one more after he signed for $35M per, up to 40 years old. a) What does this look like after Trout's age 34 or 36 season, assuming no PED's are in play? b) If Trout set Mookie's market and using WAR as a constant, the cross multiplication property puts Betts' AAV at $30.1M.

Finally, as an organization, the Red Sox already shot the moon (World Series victory) successfully, using Betts as a 9 or a 10, and are 26 points ahead. Other teams need him to be the Ace just to catch up.

Sports fandom (particularly professional) is irrational. Most root for laundry rather the human beings wearing it. I like Betts and he should get everything he is looking for. That said and as someone who understands that professional sports is not merely a game, I don't think any one organization in particular should be obligated to pay it to their (real or perceived) detriment.
 
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