Better Call Saul

[M.S.G.]

I felt it was a bit much to ask viewers to remember all the way back to S2 of BB to understand what the opening scene was about. I was certainly confused as to what was happening even though I watched all of BB. And the jumps between past/present were difficult to follow.

Regarding the "revert to Saul" thing, the foot massager scenes were useful in showing exactly that.

What was interesting about that original scene from BB, is that even way back then in THAT version of the scene when they took off the hood he said "Did Lalo send you???" Which goes to show how clever and well thought out the writing has been.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

My guess is that this is leading up to a similar ending for Jimmy/Saul/Gene as what happened with Walt in BB.

They intentionally made him far less likable in this episode. They are showing that the leopard cannot change his spots so to speak (running a well thought out theft operation) and that his deep set animosity towards Walter left him with zero remorse towards a cancer patient (interesting seeing Stuart from BBT). My guess is they are making it easier for the audience to accept his demise.

I hope this didn't spoil things for anyone but it is primarily speculation on my part.

 

[meyers7]

My guess is that this is leading up to a similar ending for Jimmy/Saul/Gene as what happened with Walt in BB.

They intentionally made him far less likable in this episode. They are showing that the leopard cannot change his spots so to speak (running a well thought out theft operation) and that his deep set animosity towards Walter left him with zero remorse towards a cancer patient (interesting seeing Stuart from BBT). My guess is they are making it easier for the audience to accept his demise.

I hope this didn't spoil things for anyone but it is primarily speculation on my part.

That thought had crossed my mind also. Though don't know if they would do the same thing. But maybe something similar.

 

[M.S.G.]

My guess is that this is leading up to a similar ending for Jimmy/Saul/Gene as what happened with Walt in BB.

They intentionally made him far less likable in this episode. They are showing that the leopard cannot change his spots so to speak (running a well thought out theft operation) and that his deep set animosity towards Walter left him with zero remorse towards a cancer patient (interesting seeing Stuart from BBT). My guess is they are making it easier for the audience to accept his demise.

I hope this didn't spoil things for anyone but it is primarily speculation on my part.

RIght! I see that as well. For instance as far back as the beginning of this season and how unnecessarily hard him and Kim went @ Howard - coupled with the cancer patient in this week's episode it's almost like they're trying to turn as against him.

However, the way he played the security guards and Jeffy's mother was incredibly likable.. So I dunno.. I just don't want it to end.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I didn't love the first B&W pure heist at Dep't store episode (was hoping for more final resolution), then after seeing how it perfectly advanced character and logically led to the far worse crimes in Breaking Bad Episode, I appreciated it a lot more. Unfortunately heist #1 was steering Gene back into irredeemable Saul, no remorse any chance for redemption is now gone via his immoral crimes. The BB episode was great & amazingly consistent with both series, tying out the Jimmy/Saul/Gene/Saul character arc.

I think Kim is out/away, repentant, continuing to pay back/deal with consequences of her role in Jimmy/Saul scams. My speculation then is because she knows she's complicit and may be monitored she refuses to take any call from Jimmy and that's what his frustration is about (just can't see him screaming at Kim like that) - she turned her back, shut the door & will stay closed off. I do think they need a present day resolution, I think that's either Kim visiting Jimmy behind bars or Jimmy traveling to see Kim as he goes down in either a Walt-esque blaze of glory or just simply cuffed and stuffed. BCS is more about consequences vs BB & Jimmy clearly deserves the worst of the full weight of his malevolence.

 

[Kolumbo]

Spoiler Alerts

This is the first time I've actually paid extra to watch a show so that says something. I thought the episodes featuring Nacho, Gustavo, Lalo were awesome because you had the Salamancos vs. Fring and Kim & Saul scheming. Great stuff. After that it's been a huge disappointment for me. Kim was supposed to be far more dangerous than Saul and then she completely folds like a cheap suit. All I could think was that something happened to Rhea in her personal life which forced the writers to get her out of the show pronto, and they failed at it. Just awful. As soon as Saul said Omaha was nothing like Albuquerque I knew he messed up and I even thought Carol Burnett was a fed or something. But there's no way he let's Mrs. Wiggins call the authorities on him, not after everything he's done to protect himself. Not that he would have shived her, but he could have at least bought some time and convinced her that saving her son from jail was more important than nailing a conman. Just a very disappointing limp to the finish.

We'll see what the finale brings but I'm not intrigued at all.

 

[Kolumbo]

My guess is that this is leading up to a similar ending for Jimmy/Saul/Gene as what happened with Walt in BB.

They intentionally made him far less likable in this episode. They are showing that the leopard cannot change his spots so to speak (running a well thought out theft operation) and that his deep set animosity towards Walter left him with zero remorse towards a cancer patient (interesting seeing Stuart from BBT). My guess is they are making it easier for the audience to accept his demise.

I hope this didn't spoil things for anyone but it is primarily speculation on my part.

I'll bet very few people understood "Stuart from BBT." I also thought that the fact that Jimmy's latest mark was a cancer patient was bad writing. First, a lot of the financial losses are probably covered by insurance. Second, if he has cancer and no immediate family, that's actually less damaging to the mark. ID theft is ID theft, no matter the marks' personal lives.

 

[M.S.G.]

Yeah the even darker turn for Jimmy the past 2 episodes really stung, left a bad taste. I didn't like what he did to the cancer patient - however there was a sense of a callback to Walter White with his disdain for him there. That being said, it's just self destructive behavior by Jimmy, especially after the phone call that went wrong with Kim, he went even deeper and darker - almost trying to get caught.

As soon as I saw the look on Jeffy's mom's face, I knew Jimmy was screwed. Very tense with him holding the phone cord as well. I don't like the direction of these past 2 episodes, really because I was hoping for a Kim / Jimmy reunion and a happy ending but we know that was completely unrealistic.

I guess in a general sense it is kind of ironic that Jimmy may be the one who pays for all of Walt / Jesse / Gus / Mike / Lalo / Nacho's sins.

Still beyond excited and on the edge of my seat for the finale.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

One problem is that they can't let Jimmy/Sail/Gene ride off into the sunset as a hero. He operated too deeply on the wrong side of the law for too long.

While it didn't show her as the dynamic character that she was for nearly the entirety of the series, Kim's situation is very fitting, especially for closure of her character arc without contradicting BB. She self imposed an exile, in a very pedestrian, insane existence, as basically penance for her misdeeds and the specific role they played in Howard's death and character assassination.

The call from Jimmy made her realize that she needed to do more (set the record straight on what happened to Howard). She is a shell of what she was earlier in the series mostly due to her belief that after what she's done she doesn't deserve to be any more than a shell of what she once was.

The biggest let down of the past two episodes was the lack of Mike. He was such a great character but his resolution is already known through BB. I imagine that there will be one more great scene with him and Gus (possibly piecing together the initial nexus of Walt/Saul/Gus/Mike).

While I don't know how they can close this up with something similar to the compound at the end of BB, I imagine the writers have something in store that is a lot more climactic than the past two episodes.

 

[SubbaBub]

Spoiler Alerts

This is the first time I've actually paid extra to watch a show so that says something. I thought the episodes featuring Nacho, Gustavo, Lalo were awesome because you had the Salamancos vs. Fring and Kim & Saul scheming. Great stuff. After that it's been a huge disappointment for me. Kim was supposed to be far more dangerous than Saul and then she completely folds like a cheap suit. All I could think was that something happened to Rhea in her personal life which forced the writers to get her out of the show pronto, and they failed at it. Just awful. As soon as Saul said Omaha was nothing like Albuquerque I knew he messed up and I even thought Carol Burnett was a fed or something. But there's no way he let's Mrs. Wiggins call the authorities on him, not after everything he's done to protect himself. Not that he would have shived her, but he could have at least bought some time and convinced her that saving her son from jail was more important than nailing a conman. Just a very disappointing limp to the finish.

We'll see what the finale brings but I'm not intrigued at all.

Kim always needed to disappear before the end as she is not mentioned at all in BB. The.only real question was does she die, take it on the lamb, or both. We'll see.

 

[storrsroars]

take it on the lamb

 

[Kolumbo]

One problem is that they can't let Jimmy/Sail/Gene ride off into the sunset as a hero. He operated too deeply on the wrong side of the law for too long.

While it didn't show her as the dynamic character that she was for nearly the entirety of the series, Kim's situation is very fitting, especially for closure of her character arc without contradicting BB. She self imposed an exile, in a very pedestrian, insane existence, as basically penance for her misdeeds and the specific role they played in Howard's death and character assassination.

The call from Jimmy made her realize that she needed to do more (set the record straight on what happened to Howard). She is a shell of what she was earlier in the series mostly due to her belief that after what she's done she doesn't deserve to be any more than a shell of what she once was.

The biggest let down of the past two episodes was the lack of Mike. He was such a great character but his resolution is already known through BB. I imagine that there will be one more great scene with him and Gus (possibly piecing together the initial nexus of Walt/Saul/Gus/Mike).

While I don't know how they can close this up with something similar to the compound at the end of BB, I imagine the writers have something in store that is a lot more climactic than the past two episodes.

Yes, Kim and Saul were unkind to Howard and Kim was more OK with it than Saul was. Saul flat out said Howard didn't deserve it. I get that Kim is punishing herself but I don't get that she blames Saul for it. It just doesn't make sense to me that she blows him off. Howard's death was tragic but that was on Salamanca. Wrong place at the wrong time. Kim could have redeemed herself by continuing to do her pro-bono work and helping the less fortunate and that would have been a far better route for her. I really liked her character up until the last couple of episodes. And I also realized she has man hands.

 

[M.S.G.]

Yes, Kim and Saul were unkind to Howard and Kim was more OK with it than Saul was. Saul flat out said Howard didn't deserve it. I get that Kim is punishing herself but I don't get that she blames Saul for it. It just doesn't make sense to me that she blows him off. Howard's death was tragic but that was on Salamanca. Wrong place at the wrong time. Kim could have redeemed herself by continuing to do her pro-bono work and helping the less fortunate and that would have been a far better route for her. I really liked her character up until the last couple of episodes. And I also realized she has man hands.

View attachment 78147

A+ point, wow, so well put.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Yes, Kim and Saul were unkind to Howard and Kim was more OK with it than Saul was. Saul flat out said Howard didn't deserve it. I get that Kim is punishing herself but I don't get that she blames Saul for it. It just doesn't make sense to me that she blows him off. Howard's death was tragic but that was on Salamanca. Wrong place at the wrong time. Kim could have redeemed herself by continuing to do her pro-bono work and helping the less fortunate and that would have been a far better route for her. I really liked her character up until the last couple of episodes. And I also realized she has man hands.

View attachment 78147

My guess is that from the start the writ writers knew there were only a couple possible options for Kim by the end of the show:

1- she gets killed in the fray of what she and/or Jimmy are involved with

2 - she somehow goes into some form of exile until after the events of Breaking Bad

The writers chose the latter and it appears that the self inflicted penance is how they are portraying it (there is still the possibility of some Kim/Jimmy escape that nobody would expect).

There is a lot that can be reconciled (including Jimmy/Saul/Gene being as unforgiving as he has been towards a cancer patient due to how things went down with Walt) but I'm still not sure how he had so little remorse towards Howard's death.

A couple things to point out:

His sticking around to see what else he could steal is a common theme throughout both series. Walt could have ended things much sooner and (if he had destroyed the copy of 'Leaves of Grass' from Gale) never been caught. Jesse could have left when he initially was taking anew identity and been clear for a new life. Saul's could have passed on the cancer patient, or, after the initial heist, departed and been fine. In each case, looking for more (greed in Walt & Saul's cases, information in Jesse's) ended up hurting them badly.

Saul's introducton to the Meth\Cartel\Fring world began with a trip to the desert (the skateboarders picked the wrong car) where he talked his way out of trouble. Saul's introduction to Walt\Breaking Bad began with a trip to the desert where he again talked his way out of trouble. I can see his ultimate demise poetically placing him in the same desert.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

As others have said, either Kim has to die or go into exile. It is not clear which direction she is going though, because that affidavit may result in the cartel killing her. Although, by that point in the timeline, virtually everyone involved in Howard's death from the cartel side (Mike, Gus, all the Salamoncas) are already dead. So maybe no one cares enough about her affidavit to kill her.

Saul/Jimmy/Gene was going to end badly. That was evident from the first season of Better Call Saul. The only uncertainty is how it ends. Does the FBI get him? Does the cartel eliminate him to keep him quiet? Or some random accident? A happy ending for Jimmy would be shocking. It is just not in the cards, and I think the character is telling us he knows it.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I'm not really sure who's left from the cartel. Bolsa was clipped in BB as repercussion to the twins attacking Hank. Gus (and Mike) took care of Don Eladio and his men later in BB. as you stated, the Salamancas are all gone. Once Fring was taken care of, Declan's crew was taken care of by uncle Jack's crew and Walt took care of uncle Jack and his team of white supremacists. Walt even eliminated Lydia (the last link to Madrigal).

I think the only risk to Kim's survival was from when in the timeline that BB begins (as she is nowhere in Saul's life) and that was explained.

The epilogue could have her serving time for her admission but that has been left open (whether the DA wants to prosecute).

I think all that is left (beyond any minor loose ends we may not consider important) is Saul's attempt to con/talk/maneuver out of the corner he's currently trapped in. That will be entertaining but I don't see how it can be successful.

 

[storrsroars]

Ah, the old girl in the red dress trick with the lighter flame.

 

[M.S.G.]

I think that was fitting, nice connection with Chuck, some good flashback scenes overall. I think I'm satisfied, I think.

 

[Kolumbo]

I'll say it. I'm disappointed because it was a rather dull ending for a series finale.

SPOILERS

I don't see any guy confessing in court and giving up the rest of his life like that. He was caught. He was being prosecuted. And he could have served his well negotiated time. I suppose he felt remorse and regret for the crimes he committed and the people he hurt but I would still choose trying to make the world a better place than dying in a place called ADX.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he turned the tables on Ms. Wexler with the pistol action at the very end. He's serving life and she is apparently out scotch free even though for her, the action was the juice. Unless she has some legal maneuverings up her sleeve to get Slippin' Jimmy out.

 

[storrsroars]

I'll say it. I'm disappointed because it was a rather dull ending for a series finale.

SPOILERS

I don't see any guy confessing in court and giving up the rest of his life like that. He was caught. He was being prosecuted. And he could have served his well negotiated time. I suppose he felt remorse and regret for the crimes he committed and the people he hurt but I would still choose trying to make the world a better place than dying in a place called ADX.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he turned the tables on Ms. Wexler with the pistol action at the very end. He's serving life and she is apparently out scotch free even though for her, the action was the juice. Unless she has some legal maneuverings up her sleeve to get Slippin' Jimmy out.

You wanted a outcome from Law & Order. Instead you got Love Story.

 

[M.S.G.]

As I've had a chance to sleep on it, had a thought.

Jimmy asked Mike, and then Walter what they would do with a time machine, and then later in the episode we see the Time Machine book at Chuck's house during another tense / awkward standoff between the two.

Do you think these little interludes - along with the stunt in court - was implying that Jimmy wishes he could go back in time to either be a better brother / mend his relationship with Chuck?

Am I reaching?

 

[meyers7]

As I've had a chance to sleep on it, had a thought.

Jimmy asked Mike, and then Walter what they would do with a time machine, and then later in the episode we see the Time Machine book at Chuck's house during another tense / awkward standoff between the two.

Do you think these little interludes - along with the stunt in court - was implying that Jimmy wishes he could go back in time to either be a better brother / mend his relationship with Chuck?

Am I reaching?

No not at all. His whole life he never faced any regrets. To win Kim back (or at least her respect) he had to finally face them.

Now Chuck was quite an balloon knot himself, so.....may never have had a "good" relationship.