BET Non UConn Games

[RuffRuff]

They still made it further in the dance than any St John's team ever has. Again, I'll believe this St John's team can make a deep run when I see it. If they do, I'll admit I was wrong. I have a feeling however that if they don't, instead of admitting that you were wrong you'll just come up with some excuse.

The bias lathered in this place makes me laugh at times - we are way too insecure a fan base. Were they really, really good because we beat them?

Whether this StJ team makes it further than them isn’t really a way to compare. Every field is different. Player for player and coach for coach I think this StJ team is better. Show me any player on that team that looked like Kadari Smith or Luis. Do you think that SDSU team would have steamrolled through the BE and gone 21-2?

 

[navery12]

The bias lathered in this place makes me laugh at times - we are way too insecure a fan base. Were they really, really good because we beat them?

Whether this StJ team makes it further than them isn’t really a way to compare. Every field is different. Player for player and coach for coach I think this StJ team is better. Show me any player on that team that looked like Kadari Smith or Luis. Do you think that SDSU team would have steamrolled through the BE and gone 21-2?

You calling out supposed bias in a post about St John's is very funny. The only thing more annoying and bizarre than your Pitino/St John's obsession this season is your complete inability to spell any of their player's names

 

[RuffRuff]

You calling out supposed bias in a post about St John's is very funny. The only thing more annoying and bizarre than your Pitino/St John's obsession this season is your complete inability to spell any of their player's names

Do you really think I’m obsessed with Pitino? Is it that hard to respect what he’s accomplished? Do we always have to be so stuck in the tribal mentality to not appreciate the broader landscape and what other coaches and programs are accomplishing? There are boneheads here so stuck in that mentality they want him to lose in the NCAA tournament even though it results in financial reward for UConn. There are people calling him a bad man. Is he really? People screw up, shouldn’t be cast into a box. As long as we are stuck in the BE we should always hope the league does well in the tournament. It’s stupid not to. Being objective is not being biased for the other teams. It’s not having your head so far up the UConn @ss that you can’t see things non UConn clearly.

 

[navery12]

Do you really think I’m obsessed with Pitino? Is it that hard to respect what he’s accomplished? Do we always have to be so stuck in the tribal mentality to not appreciate the broader landscape and what other coaches and programs are accomplishing? There are boneheads here so stuck in that mentality they want him to lose in the NCAA tournament even though it results in financial reward for UConn. There are people calling him a bad man. Is he really? People screw up, shouldn’t be cast into a box. As long as we are stuck in the BE we should always hope the league does well in the tournament. It’s stupid not to. Being objective is not being biased for the other teams. It’s not having your head so far up the UConn @ss that you can’t see things non UConn clearly.

Yes, I think you are weirdly obsessed with Rick Pitino and have been all year. And yes Rick Pitino is a truly awful human being

 

[alexd]

Wow. The last St John's BET title was in 2000.
We were one year removed from 77-74.

 

[Ripper32]

Not sure how far I can have the Johnnies go in my bracket. Can't shoot can't win

They are a satisfactory mid range shooting team. The problem they may run into is when they run into a SEC team that's just as athletic and deep. Then their advantages dwindle.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The bias lathered in this place makes me laugh at times - we are way too insecure a fan base. Were they really, really good because we beat them?

Whether this StJ team makes it further than them isn’t really a way to compare. Every field is different. Player for player and coach for coach I think this StJ team is better. Show me any player on that team that looked like Kadari Smith or Luis. Do you think that SDSU team would have steamrolled through the BE and gone 21-2?

So what you are sayimg is "i've already decided that I am right and regardless of what the evidence ultimately shows, I will still be right".

You are the one being biased, already giving this St John's team credit beyond what has yet been earned. Have you considered the possibility that the Big East may be the weakest it has ever been at the top of the conference? Peronally I don't see a whole lot in Richmond or Smith,. not when looking at players who have excelled at this level over the past decade. Luis is very good, but until the last few weeks his offensive game (which is really what he has) has had a ton of holes in it.

Again, they should need to earn something before you annoint them.

 

[gsmooth]

Wow. The last St John's BET title was in 2000.
We were one year removed from 77-74.

I remember that 2000 title vividly even though it was 25 years ago. I had the same feeling of humility yesterday watching St. John's pummel Creighton that I had 25 years ago when they pummeled UConn in BET championship game. All I kept thinking was, "what a difference a year makes". Both times I was comparing UConn in those years to the their prior year championship teams and seeing how nerfed down they were from defections to the NBA and graduation.

 

[djct1999]

Yes, I think you are weirdly obsessed with Rick Pitino and have been all year. And yes Rick Pitino is a truly awful human being

And what he accomplished this year is an an achievement but hardly as impressive as people are making it. Yeah, he built a team of transfers with Mike Repoles money. St John’s ran the table in a year where UConn, Nova, Creighton, and Marquette had down years. Are they good? Yep. But this talk of best of all time because of this is pure lunacy. Whoopty do.

Historically, what Danny accomplished the last two years and how he accomplished it is 100x more impressive. St John’s wasn’t a rebuild it was a purchase.

 

[RuffRuff]

So what you are sayimg is "i've already decided that I am right and regardless of what the evidence ultimately shows, I will still be right".

You are the one being biased, already giving this St John's team credit beyond what has yet been earned. Have you considered the possibility that the Big East may be the weakest it has ever been at the top of the conference? Peronally I don't see a whole lot in Richmond or Smith,. not when looking at players who have excelled at this level over the past decade. Luis is very good, but until the last few weeks his offensive game (which is really what he has) has had a ton of holes in it.

Again, they should need to earn something before you annoint them.

I don’t think you can evaluate two teams head to head based on how far they go in a respective tourney as paths are unique. That SDSU team had a path soft as butter other than Bama, which was a weak overall 1 that year. I think this StJ team would kick that SDSU teams @ss head to head. But if you want me to put something on the line then yeah, I think this StJ team will go deep in this tourney. What they do well and the unique athletes they have is hard to prepare for. I’ll come back to you after the brackets are out. This field is dramatically better than that 2023 field, evidenced quite clearly by the KenPom of the top seeds this year. There are 6 teams higher in KP right now than we finished that year. Think about that. There are 9 teams better than what that top overall Bama finished. That was a weak field.

 

[RuffRuff]

Yes, I think you are weirdly obsessed with Rick Pitino and have been all year. And yes Rick Pitino is a truly awful human being

I guess you’re so iron clad UConn blind you can’t appreciate a fellow conference member being resurrected to great in two seasons. It’s an amazing story. Not all good things have to only happen to UConn. He’s built a great roster with good kids. If you’re fan of the game, of the BE, how do you not appreciate that? Bizarre.

 

[RuffRuff]

And what he accomplished this year is an an achievement but hardly as impressive as people are making it. Yeah, he built a team of transfers with Mike Repoles money. St John’s ran the table in a year where UConn, Nova, Creighton, and Marquette had down years. Are they good? Yep. But this talk of best of all time because of this is pure lunacy. Whoopty do.

Historically, what Danny accomplished the last two years and how he accomplished it is 100x more impressive. St John’s wasn’t a rebuild it was a purchase.

Really? You’re going to detract from the accomplishment based on NIL advantage? Well get used to it because that’s todays world. Luis and Zuby are his two best players and with the team last year. They’re not best of all time, not sure who’s saying that. But they are very good and what Pitino has done is beyond impressive. He took a dormant program of 30 years to a 2 seed BE champ in 2 years. However you do it that is great work.

 

[huskyjawz]

l

I don’t think you can evaluate two teams head to head based on how far they go in a respective tourney as paths are unique. That SDSU team had a path soft as butter other than Bama, which was a weak overall 1 that year. I think this StJ team would kick that SDSU teams @ss head to head. But if you want me to put something on the line then yeah, I think this StJ team will go deep in this tourney. What they do well and the unique athletes they have is hard to prepare for. I’ll come back to you after the brackets are out. This field is dramatically better than that 2023 field, evidenced quite clearly by the KenPom of the top seeds this year. There are 6 teams higher in KP right now than we finished that year. Think about that. There are 9 teams better than what that top overall Bama finished. That was a weak field.

Results are what counts. Otherwise play Stratomatic. Is Georgetown better than Nova? No Nova are the champions. Is Houston better than NC ST? No NC St are the champions. They may be better on paper, but results count If St John's gets knocked out early, then SDSU had a better season and is better. It doesn't matter how you compare their paths or hypothetical matchups. You sound like the Cuse fans that try and diminish our 2014 run.

 

[RuffRuff]

l

Results are what counts. Otherwise play Stratomatic. Is Georgetown better than Nova? No Nova are the champions. Is Houston better than NC ST? No NC St are the champions. They may be better on paper, but results count If St John's gets knocked out early, then SDSU had a better season and is better. It doesn't matter how you compare their paths or hypothetical matchups. You sound like the Cuse fans that try and diminish our 2014 run.

I agree to a point. If this StJ team gets to the elite 8 and loses to the eventual NC, it’s up for debate.

That SDSU was solid but nothing special - they needed last second shots and foul calls to win by one against Creighton and FAU. Let’s please not anoint them some great team. They were an older set of thick bullies that lacked skill. This StJ team is a lot more than that.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I agree to a point. If this StJ team gets to the elite 8 and loses to the eventual NC, it’s up for debate.

What happens if they lose before the elite eight? To a team that does not win the championship?

That SDSU was solid but nothing special - they needed last second shots and foul calls to win by one against Creighton and FAU. Let’s please not anoint them some great team. They were an older set of thick bullies that lacked skill. This StJ team is a lot more than that.

The only person annointing any team as a great team in this conversation is you annointing St John's.

 

[KingAG]

I agree to a point. If this StJ team gets to the elite 8 and loses to the eventual NC, it’s up for debate.

That SDSU was solid but nothing special - they needed last second shots and foul calls to win by one against Creighton and FAU. Let’s please not anoint them some great team. They were an older set of thick bullies that lacked skill. This StJ team is a lot more than that.

You’re doing exactly to SDSU what you’re accusing everyone else of doing to St John’s. You’re just too locked in to your argument to see it. You sound like a closet Johnnies fan.

 

[KingAG]

The only person annointing any team as a great team in this conversation is you annointing St John's.

He literally can’t see it.

 

[Scoe]

It's funny to see people on this board stick to their narrative, rather than just calling what they see.

 

[navery12]

I guess you’re so iron clad UConn blind you can’t appreciate a fellow conference member being resurrected to great in two seasons. It’s an amazing story. Not all good things have to only happen to UConn. He’s built a great roster with good kids. If you’re fan of the game, of the BE, how do you not appreciate that? Bizarre.

I can appreciate how great of a season they're having without needing to talk them up in every post. They're a very good team, and I hope they make a deep run so that UConn gets more money. But I despise Rick Pitino so I'm also going to find it pretty enjoyable when their deeply flawed team doesn't make it out of the first weekend

 

[RuffRuff]

You’re doing exactly to SDSU what you’re accusing everyone else of doing to St John’s. You’re just too locked in to your argument to see it. You sound like a closet Johnnies fan.

But I'm nothing close to a Jonnies fan - there isn't even a sliver of me that is a Jonnies fan. I can appreciate a great team and great coaching job that isn't Uconn. I think StJ is amazing for the BE, for NYC and for sports entertainment as a whole. I guess I just don't have enough tribalism in me to blind myself to great accomplishments that aren't Uconn, calling what is likely a man 99% of people who know him love, a bad man. I would savor any/every win we had over them going forward, even more so now that they're on their high. That's not being a closet Jonnies fan, that's being a fan of sports and seeing how the longer view sets up for some amazing sports entertainment.

When I evaluate St John's against that SDSU team, I'm evaluating it player for player, coach for coach. Not based on tourney results of that year. This STJ team is 6 KP higher than that SDSU team. Please give me the argument on that that says they are as good? Give me the difference making player on that team. There weren't any.

 

[RuffRuff]

I can appreciate how great of a season they're having without needing to talk them up in every post. They're a very good team, and I hope they make a deep run so that UConn gets more money. But I despise Rick Pitino so I'm also going to find it pretty enjoyable when their deeply flawed team doesn't make it out of the first weekend

Why do you despise him? I don't get it. Because he's arrogant? Look no further than our coach for that. Because he did some sketchy recruiting things 10+ years ago? Do you hate Sean Miller?

Their team isn't perfect, but not sure any team is. Look at Auburn folding down the stretch. Duke has no PG. Houston is small and relies on 3 point shooting to score. Bama doesn't play defense. Everyone is flawed, it's the team that is least flawed and presents the most difficult matchups that will make a run. I feel good about StJ. I don't think there is a team out there that will know what to do with Kadari. Show me another 6'5" PG that can post up any guard with ease. If they're not any good, then boy the BE stinks. Really great thing to pull for.

 

[uconnfan68]

That SDSU team made it to the national championship game. I'll believe this St John's team is capable of doing the same when I see it.

If it can’t be us, I’d be thrilled to see another BE team. I’ll be rooting for all of them to go far.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

But I'm nothing close to a Jonnies fan - there isn't even a sliver of me that is a Jonnies fan. I can appreciate a great team and great coaching job that isn't Uconn.

Great coaching job? Maybe. Very good at a minumum. Great team? You're joking, right?

When I evaluate St John's against that SDSU team, I'm evaluating it player for player, coach for coach. Not based on tourney results of that year. This STJ team is 6 KP higher than that SDSU team. Please give me the argument on that that says they are as good? Give me the difference making player on that team. There weren't any.

Where did Kenpom rate the Alabama team that SDSU beat two years ago? Not a rhetorical question, actual curiosity on my part.

One significant issue that I have with Kenpom is there have supposedly been a few teams (including a couple this season) rated ahead of our team from last season. I really need someone to explain to me how that is possible. I imagine that there is a bit too much subjectivity in any evaluation (Kenpom, Torvik, etc) to view any as foolproof or an end all, be all model.

I personally believe that a 23 SDSU vs 25 St John's wuld be a very interesting game as among other things I wouold like to see how St John's offense would operate against an opponent that would be able to stand up to them physically.

 

[navery12]

Why do you despise him? I don't get it. Because he's arrogant? Look no further than our coach for that. Because he did some sketchy recruiting things 10+ years ago? Do you hate Sean Miller?

Their team isn't perfect, but not sure any team is. Look at Auburn folding down the stretch. Duke has no PG. Houston is small and relies on 3 point shooting to score. Bama doesn't play defense. Everyone is flawed, it's the team that is least flawed and presents the most difficult matchups that will make a run. I feel good about StJ. I don't think there is a team out there that will know what to do with Kadari. Show me another 6'5" PG that can post up any guard with ease. If they're not any good, then boy the BE stinks. Really great thing to pull for.

"Some sketchy recruiting things" is a very interesting way to phrase what happened at Louisville. And yes, that's why I hate him. They're also one of UConn's main rivals, why would I like him?

You're right that every team is flawed, but St John's flaws are just ones I see getting exposed. They run a bad offense, can't shoot the 3 or FTs well, and they play an aggressive style of defense that will not hold up outside of the Big East

 

[KingAG]

But I'm nothing close to a Jonnies fan - there isn't even a sliver of me that is a Jonnies fan. I can appreciate a great team and great coaching job that isn't Uconn. I think StJ is amazing for the BE, for NYC and for sports entertainment as a whole. I guess I just don't have enough tribalism in me to blind myself to great accomplishments that aren't Uconn, calling what is likely a man 99% of people who know him love, a bad man. I would savor any/every win we had over them going forward, even more so now that they're on their high. That's not being a closet Jonnies fan, that's being a fan of sports and seeing how the longer view sets up for some amazing sports entertainment.

When I evaluate St John's against that SDSU team, I'm evaluating it player for player, coach for coach. Not based on tourney results of that year. This STJ team is 6 KP higher than that SDSU team. Please give me the argument on that that says they are as good? Give me the difference making player on that team. There weren't any.

“I can appreciate a great team and great coaching job that isn’t UConn”

Then proceeds to not a appreciate a team and coach who made it to the national championship game after winning their conference.

HE LITERALLY CAN NOT SEE IT.

 

[RuffRuff]

"Some sketchy recruiting things" is a very interesting way to phrase what happened at Louisville. And yes, that's why I hate him. They're also one of UConn's main rivals, why would I like him?

You're right that every team is flawed, but St John's flaws are just ones I see getting exposed. They run a bad offense, can't shoot the 3 or FTs well, and they play an aggressive style of defense that will not hold up outside of the Big East

I don't like him when we play him, but in the tournament, hell yeah I'm pulling for him and to bring that juice back to the Big East. We will have an entire Big East season next year that will be electrified if a BE team wins a NC. Will be really exciting if our 4 teams flame out, not.

Do you not think Calhoun was doing sketchy things? There is plenty of back channel rumors around the many bags he was passing out. Oh, and we went on probation with him. Give me a break man - Pitino was simply caught. That whole era was one of underhanded recruiting crookery, that was the landscape.

StJ also takes an exceptionally larger amount of shots than their opponents, are significantly better conditioned and do things to win beside shooting that translate to consistency(like our team last year). It's the teams that rely on outside shooting that I would be worried about, especially in unfamiliar arenas and domes. They also have Pitino, who is very smart and has been there many times. Let me remind you - he's been to 7 Final Fours. You don't think that is an advantage? You don't think he doesn't have plans if things aren't working or the refs are calling things a certain way?

Objectivity please!!!

 

[navery12]

I don't like him when we play him, but in the tournament, hell yeah I'm pulling for him and to bring that juice back to the Big East. We will have an entire Big East season next year that will be electrified if a BE team wins a NC. Will be really exciting if our 4 teams flame out, not.

Do you not think Calhoun was doing sketchy things? There is plenty of back channel rumors around the many bags he was passing out. Oh, and we went on probation with him. Give me a break man - Pitino was simply caught. That whole era was one of underhanded recruiting crookery, that was the landscape.

StJ also takes an exceptionally larger amount of shots than their opponents, are significantly better conditioned and do things to win beside shooting that translate to consistency(like our team last year). It's the teams that rely on outside shooting that I would be worried about, especially in unfamiliar arenas and domes. They also have Pitino, who is very smart and has been there many times. Let me remind you - he's been to 7 Final Fours. You don't think that is an advantage? You don't think he doesn't have plans if things aren't working or the refs are calling things a certain way?

Objectivity please!!!

No, I do not think Jim Calhoun was hiring prostitutes for UConn recruits. If he was then he's a bad guy too.

I'm sure Rick Pitino has plans to adjust his gameplans if it's not working. But I don't think his players are good enough to make those changes. Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, we'll see over the next few weeks. I just see a lot of red flags with this St John's team that make me think an early exit is coming. Doesn't mean they weren't talented, doesn't mean it wasn't a successful season, just don't see this team being capable of making a run with their flaws

 

[RuffRuff]

“I can appreciate a great team and great coaching job that isn’t UConn”

Then proceeds to not a appreciate a team and coach who made it to the national championship game after winning their conference.

HE LITERALLY CAN NOT SEE IT.

I cannot see what? The view that this StJ team is comparable to that SDSU team? How anyway? Style of play? Quality of player? I think this StJ team is much better - maybe it's subjective, but the KenPom certainly supports that view. Do you think any non homer would say that the ease of path in the tournament doesn't matter? Do you think any non homer would say that two fields can have significantly different qualities of team?

Do I appreciate they won the Mountain West conference? Um, sure. Kind of a stupid point. This whole argument was about comparing StJ to SDSU. I think this StJ team would handle them easily. Let me revisit the SDSU starting 5. LeDee wasn't much of a factor on that team, came off bench, blossomed into the next.

Lamont Butler - 6'2" G 9ppg
Keshad Johnson - 6'7" F 7ppg
Matt Bradley - 6'4" G 12ppg
Darrion Tramell - 5'10 G 10ppg
Nate Mensah - 6"10" C non factor offensively

You think that team right there matches up with a team consisting of the BE POY, Kadari Smith and Zuby? That was a thick, short, fairly unathletic team that grinded you down physically. They made a run on a nice path, beat down a soft Bama Brandon Miller lead team that year on their way and then got favorable matchups.

 

[RuffRuff]

No, I do not think Jim Calhoun was hiring prostitutes for UConn recruits. If he was then he's a bad guy too.

I'm sure Rick Pitino has plans to adjust his gameplans if it's not working. But I don't think his players are good enough to make those changes. Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, we'll see over the next few weeks. I just see a lot of red flags with this St John's team that make me think an early exit is coming. Doesn't mean they weren't talented, doesn't mean it wasn't a successful season, just don't see this team being capable of making a run with their flaws

Do you think if Uconn recruits were taken to Electric Blue, that falls above the line? Rules are rule, sketchiness level is subjective. Calhoun was no saint as it came to recruiting battles.

What is interesting with StJ is that in both the semis and finals they went down big early, took the opponents early adrenaline rush, and calmly beat down the opposition over the next 30. They are so well conditioned that by the second half the opposition is hung over their knees catching their breath and have no legs. That bodes really, really well in the tournament. I think they make a run - we shall see.

 

[BFieldHusky]

“I can appreciate a great team and great coaching job that isn’t UConn”

Then proceeds to not a appreciate a team and coach who made it to the national championship game after winning their conference.

HE LITERALLY CAN NOT SEE IT.

Also starts almost all of his replies with multiple questions. It's an annoying pattern.