Best Freshman Seasons Ever?

[VAUConnFan]

OK, so Greene played as a freshman, sophomore senior and 5th year student. It changes nothing. Students in their 5th year are not seniors, they are 5th year or grad students.

In my fifth year as a student, I might have been lucky to be a sophmore.

Again, there is a difference between students and athletes in this regard. Some college websites make a point of addressing that very distinction often listing stating a player's student status and athlete eligibility status on the team rosters.

 

[kat0189]

It's interesting b/c Alana Beard's freshman season does indeed immediately come to mind, but statistically Stanford's Candice Wiggins had a very comparable one, in fact she had more ppg (17.5 vs. 17.0) and more rpg (5.4 vs. 4.5) than Beard on a team that had a very comparable season (Stanford went 32-3 losing to an overachieving Michigan State in the Elite 8, Duke went 30-4 losing to a one-woman team, Jackie Stile's SW Missouri State also in the Elite 8). Both were also co-National Freshmen of the Year (Beard w/ Kelly Mazzante and Wiggins with Tasha Humphrey). Wiggins also won conference MVP outright as a freshman but Beard had a little more of everything else in the box score (steals, assists, FG%).

Of course Beard being overshadowed so much in HS made her rookie season much more of a story, but also having watched both play as freshmen, Beard did make more of a visceral impression on you with her dominating defense and acrobatic offense while Wiggins relied more on smooth outside shooting and getting to the FT line. Furthermore Wiggins had a lot of veteran leaders around her setting up opportunities for her while Beard had to create for herself more.

If you told me in a dozen years Beard would be averaging under 6 ppg in the WNBA and never have played in the Olympics, I would tell you to get your head checked. :-/

Ironically, the closest either will likely get to making the Olympics was fresh out of college.

 

[kat0189]

Also, even UConn fans will think I'm crazy for saying this, but I remember the first time I watched Candace Parker as a redshirt freshman I came away thinking she was actually kind of...slow! I have a distinct memory of flipping on the TV and a few plays later Candace was chasing after Seimone Augustus (who had just stolen the ball) and it was such a hopeless sight! Seimone smoked her! Maybe it was fatigue/conditioning, but I remember scratching my head for a moment.

Also, I must say one of the most impressive first impressions I have ever had of a freshman was Brittany Hunter in Duke's season opening loss to Texas back in 2003. It was child's play the way she was blocking/altering shots, and she pretty effortlessly scored 16 points with her muscle, athleticism, size, and skill while either being in foul trouble or just kept on a short leash by Goestenkors as she was still learning the system (I don't recall which -- I just remember thinking she could have even been more dominant that night).

 

[meyers7]

Parker's senior year was Moore's freshman year. Is somebody claiming that senior Parker winning POY over a freshman is some sort of claim to superiority?

Well she was, but no, I don't think that was the intent. I believe bballnut was just correcting the posts earlier in this thread that Moore almost beat Parker for POY honors, when in fact she didn't.

There is no such thing as a "red shirt freshman" except in some minds. There are freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors. Parker's first year of competition was her sophomore year.

Question then, what was Jessica Moore then in her fourth year? She redshirted her first year at UCONN, so obviously her 1st year playing was her Soph year, then 2nd-Junior, 3rd-Senior, and then what????

 

[meyers7]

Oh gimme a break, get real, the Wooden award IS the NPOY award, and a true freshman getting 2nd with 144 to 274 for the great and glorious Candace Parker in her last year in CB seems pretty close to me.

Ummm, yea, that's not close. Not even close to being close.

 

[meyers7]

Memories fade, get alerted by time. But statistics don't change.

But.....they do lie.

 

[meyers7]

OK, so Greene played as a freshman, sophomore senior and 5th year student. It changes nothing. Students in their 5th year are not seniors, they are 5th year or grad students.

We are talking about basketball here, not academics. If you want to talk academics I'm sure there is some academic board someplace where one can discuss student's academic years. We discuss their basketball ones here.

 

[meyers7]

It's interesting b/c Alana Beard's freshman season does indeed immediately come to mind, but statistically Stanford's Candice Wiggins had a very comparable one, in fact she had more ppg (17.5 vs. 17.0) and more rpg (5.4 vs. 4.5) than Beard on a team that had a very comparable season (Stanford went 32-3 losing to an overachieving Michigan State in the Elite 8, Duke went 30-4 losing to a one-woman team, Jackie Stile's SW Missouri State also in the Elite 8). Both were also co-National Freshmen of the Year (Beard w/ Kelly Mazzante and Wiggins with Tasha Humphrey). Wiggins also won conference MVP outright as a freshman but Beard had a little more of everything else in the box score (steals, assists, FG%).

Of course Beard being overshadowed so much in HS made her rookie season much more of a story, but also having watched both play as freshmen, Beard did make more of a visceral impression on you with her dominating defense and acrobatic offense while Wiggins relied more on smooth outside shooting and getting to the FT line. Furthermore Wiggins had a lot of veteran leaders around her setting up opportunities for her while Beard had to create for herself more.

If you told me in a dozen years Beard would be averaging under 6 ppg in the WNBA and never have played in the Olympics, I would tell you to get your head checked. :-/

Ironically, the closest either will likely get to making the Olympics was fresh out of college.

I always thought Wiggins would be a shoe-in for the Olympic team. Not the first time I've been wrong.

 

[Icebear]

But.....they do lie.

Statistics cannot lie. They have no consciousness. But liars do figure.

 

[Icebear]

A fifth year player is an athlete with remaining eligibility. It does not mean they are a senior. Players with eligibility remaining have completed Masters.

A year of practicing as a "red shirt" can dramatically affect the preparedness of a player the first time they step on the court for college competition and is not fair to compare them to a true freshman. 1* That is why in sports coverage they are most often referred to as red shirt freshman defining a difference and a different level of expectation for performance. 1*

 

[meyers7]

Statistics cannot lie. They have no consciousness. But liars do figure.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

 

[Alydar]

Well she was, but no, I don't think that was the intent. I believe bballnut was just correcting the posts earlier in this thread that Moore almost beat Parker for POY honors, when in fact she didn't.


Question then, what was Jessica Moore then in her fourth year? She redshirted her first year at UCONN, so obviously her 1st year playing was her Soph year, then 2nd-Junior, 3rd-Senior, and then what????

I think I already answered that previously but she would be a 5th year student or a grad student, depending on whether she got her degree in her 1st 4 years or not. These people are students first. Their designation is determined by when they enrolled, not when they stepped on a BB court in uniform or which year of eligibility they are in.

 

[meyers7]

I think I already answered that previously but she would be a 5th year student or a grad student, depending on whether she got her degree in her 1st 4 years or not. These people are students first. Their designation is determined by when they enrolled, not when they stepped on a BB court in uniform or which year of eligibility they are in.

Wrong. This is a basketball board. Not an academic board.

 

[Icebear]

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

I prefer, "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

 

[Alydar]

Losing 144 to 274 is not almost beating someone. .

.
Yes, but when a freshman finishes second in NPOY voting, it tells me that the winning senior didn't have much competition for the award.

Must have been a down year in wcbb. ( isn't that what was said about UConn's BTB undefeated seasons?)

 

[Alydar]

Does anyone know if the NCAA allows "red shirt" freshmen to set freshman records for scoring, etc.?
.
IMO, if you want to compare stats then compare Maya's senior year with Parker's senior year, junior with junior, soph with soph. Unfortunately Parker was injured her freshman year so there can be no comparison.

Senior, Junior etc. are academic designations first and have nothing to do with athletics. I guess one could say a player is a rookie during their first year, no matter what their academic class is but that isn't used in college. The whole red shirt designation only became real in the 70's, I believe, because before then freshmen couldn't play varsity. So a player who was injured as a freshman entered the varsity as a sophomore, just like her classmates who played freshman BB.

 

[bballnut90]

.
Yes, but when a freshman finishes second in NPOY voting, it tells me that the winning senior didn't have much competition for the award.

Must have been a down year in wcbb. ( isn't that what was said about UConn's BTB undefeated seasons?)

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but 2008 was one of the strongest years ever for WCBB. The only year I can think of that might have been better is 2001.

 

[bballnut90]

Does anyone know if the NCAA allows "red shirt" freshmen to set freshman records for scoring, etc.?
.
IMO, if you want to compare stats then compare Maya's senior year with Parker's senior year, junior with junior, soph with soph. Unfortunately Parker was injured her freshman year so there can be no comparison.

Senior, Junior etc. are academic designations first and have nothing to do with athletics. I guess one could say a player is a rookie during their first year, no matter what their academic class is but that isn't used in college. The whole red shirt designation only became real in the 70's, I believe, because before then freshmen couldn't play varsity. So a player who was injured as a freshman entered the varsity as a sophomore, just like her classmates who played freshman BB.

Does anyone know if the NCAA allows "red shirt" freshmen to set freshman records for scoring, etc.?
.
IMO, if you want to compare stats then compare Maya's senior year with Parker's senior year, junior with junior, soph with soph. Unfortunately Parker was injured her freshman year so there can be no comparison.

Senior, Junior etc. are academic designations first and have nothing to do with athletics. I guess one could say a player is a rookie during their first year, no matter what their academic class is but that isn't used in college. The whole red shirt designation only became real in the 70's, I believe, because before then freshmen couldn't play varsity. So a player who was injured as a freshman entered the varsity as a sophomore, just like her classmates who played freshman BB.


Just checked--Elena Delle Donne is in the record book for freshman scoring and points per game even though she was a sophomore by your standards.

And your logic doesn't make sense. Look at all the student athletes who are exceptional students and graduate in 3 years, or enter college as sophomores academically...what would you consider them?

 

[huskyrob1]

Does anyone know if the NCAA allows "red shirt" freshmen to set freshman records for scoring, etc.?
.
IMO, if you want to compare stats then compare Maya's senior year with Parker's senior year, junior with junior, soph with soph. Unfortunately Parker was injured her freshman year so there can be no comparison.

Senior, Junior etc. are academic designations first and have nothing to do with athletics. I guess one could say a player is a rookie during their first year, no matter what their academic class is but that isn't used in college. The whole red shirt designation only became real in the 70's, I believe, because before then freshmen couldn't play varsity. So a player who was injured as a freshman entered the varsity as a sophomore, just like her classmates who played freshman BB.


Just checked--Elena Delle Donne is in the record book for freshman scoring and points per game even though she was a sophomore by your standards.

And your logic doesn't make sense. Look at all the student athletes who are exceptional students and graduate in 3 years, or enter college as sophomores academically...what would you consider them?

Hey Bball, whatever happened to Latoya Thomas? She had a very dominant and phenomenal freshman year at Miss St some years back. I mean IIRC it was tough for Tenn to contain her even in her freshman year.

 

[meyers7]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, .

This, " " , didn't give you a clue???

 

[bballnut90]

Hey Bball, whatever happened to Latoya Thomas? She had a very dominant and phenomenal freshman year at Miss St some years back. I mean IIRC it was tough for Tenn to contain her even in her freshman year.

Thomas a great player, she was a handful for any team she went up against. I'm pretty sure she's 2nd all time in SEC career scoring, after Holdsclaw. She had a few solid seasons in the W...I might be wrong but I believe she had a bad injury that derailed her career, not sure though. Why'd you bring her up?

 

[huskyrob1]

Thomas a great player, she was a handful for any team she went up against. I'm pretty sure she's 2nd all time in SEC career scoring, after Holdsclaw. She had a few solid seasons in the W...I might be wrong but I believe she had a bad injury that derailed her career, not sure though. Why'd you bring her up?

Because the thread "best freshman season ever", I don't remember her stats as a freshman but do remember her as one of the most dominant frosh I ever saw.

 

[bballnut90]

Because the thread "best freshman season ever", I don't remember her stats as a freshman but do remember her as one of the most dominant frosh I ever saw.

Good memory...she's another one that should definitely be on this list, she led Mississippi State to a #3 seed in the tournament and was the top scorer in the SEC as a freshman. Just found her freshman stats, she averaged 21 points and 7 boards while shooting 57% from the floor as a wing player.